How to Go To Market Across Many Verticals with Asia Orangio

0:00but if you've been feeling the pressure to Niche if you've been feeling like okay I want to go to I want to go to market across many different verticals I just don't really know how how do we actually do that I would argue you really actually need Focus you don't actually need to Niche unless of course that aligns with you and your goals we are going to talk all about how to go to market which is why you're ultimately here and when we think about going to Market especially when you have a SAS or software that's applicable to many different verticals segments I actually think for the most part we make this a

0:32little bit harder than what it actually needs to be so my goal here today is to do really two things I want to clarify and I want to simplify because when we clarify and we simplify then we take action but first I actually just want to start with a very quick story so this is a pretty prototypical story uh me and my work so I run a growth consultancy we work with SAS companies all over the world one of the number one things we do is troubleshoot growth and if we're not troubleshooting growth we are finding new growth and Market opportunities for companies and so this I would say is a

1:03pretty typical uh story but there was a company that we worked with digital Asset Management so it's called a dam which I actually love saying and this dam is in a particular a particular part of the market where they're not really quite uh their whole thing like isn't necessarily to compete with the binders of the world they really just want to make it really easy to bring assets together to share links to these assets and enable teams to be able to acquire those assets and use them in whatever they want to do what was really interesting was this particular company of course like they're spread across a bunch of

1:41different verticals they have freemium they have a demo model they also have a free trial and on top of that they're targeting b2c folks so they're like targeting designers and people like designers who want to share assets they're also targeting uh something like the mid-market so like this is like medium-sized businesses and then finally they're targeting Enterprise and they're on the beat like they're super on the B2B side and what's really interesting was one of the very first conversations I had with the CEO and the founder was he was like Asia we are spread super thin uh one I can't hold all these limes we've got

2:20like three four people on the team but also we're not making enough progress on growth we're torn between these three very big fundamental fundamentally different segments and on top of that the team doesn't really know like where are we going next like what is the next thing to go and do because we're spread across all these different things and of course there's the there's the typical list of the the various marketing tactics and ideas and it's like the you know the the Evernote list or the the list in paper or notion and it's like 50 different ideas uh and like maybe like a third of them are actually

2:55crossed off because we started on doing them but there's a lot of marketing false starts there's lots of false starts with growth uh maybe if we did this or what if we did this or what if we did this it's very very common and the the conversation that I had with the founder uh pretty much resulted in maybe we just need to like find a niche we just need to Niche and like just like take our whole software and put it over here and just focus entirely on this one particular segment of the market but the the conundrum of course was what Market do we focus on and how how

3:29do we eventually go back to expanding this is a conversation I've had several times with Founders before and the thing about the word Niche is that it has a very specific connotation I think whenever we say the word Niche or Niche whichever one you want I think what we're actually saying is we really want Focus so when we want when we when we're feeling like we have this pressure to Niche I think what we're really asking for is we just want to feel like we have a focus especially if our product or our software is widely applicable to many different use cases vertical segments but here's the thing about Niche and I

4:09actually was talking about this with April Dunford so if you saw her talk yesterday um you know she is the the positioning uh Guru I would say uh but we were actually talking about this the other day and the thing about Niche is whenever we think about niching typically we think about okay we've got our software and we just need to take one vertical and say this is now that's that software for that one vertical so examples uh are typically CRM for law firms for example so CRM widely applicable broadly applicable software category what if you took that and crunched it down into it's just for law firms another example uh

4:51Inventory management for coffee roasters or vacation rental software for short-term rental companies so typically whenever we think about niching we think about okay great we've got this like broadly applicable thing let's just like shove it into a category or shove it into a vertical and here's the thing that is not a bad strategy that's like not what I'm here to tell you to to um to abandon but if you've been feeling the pressure to Niche if you've been feeling like okay I want to go to I want to go to market across many different verticals I just don't really know how how do we actually do that I would argue

5:22you really actually need Focus you don't actually need to Niche unless of course that aligns with you and your goals so what does focusing look like focusing is really just okay we have this widely applicable uh software and it can it can be used really in like tons of verticals and maybe there's actually only five verticals and it would be applied to what's really cool about focus is you get to ultimately fundamentally decide you get to be selective you get to choose based of course on a few factors but focusing basically says okay what if we've got this Dunning platform and there's really just key parts of the

6:05market that we're going to be focused on and it's going to be direct to Consumer it's going to be B2B and likely subscription-based companies within those categories so as of course applies to this but these are our market segments these are the places that we want to go and play another example would be like digital signage but we're going to focus specifically on manufacturing companies and Retail companies that are Enterprise and yes like you could technically use digital signage and pretty much any kind of company it's widely applicable to many different verticals but here's the thing about Focus we get to choose we get to fundamentally say you know what

6:44we're not necessarily going to double down on this one thing forever however we do have these particular market segments that we would like to spend time in I think the one thing I want to just impart if you take nothing else away from this talk it is that a niche can and will give you focus focus is is really a broader concept having a niche that's absolutely going to give you focus if you're a CRM for law firms you're probably going to focus on law firms if a marketing agency comes along and is like hey I think your CRM is really cool it'll be really cool if

7:19like we could use your CRM you're probably going to be like yeah like that's awesome but we're really designed for law firms if you would like to use it great but you're probably not going to get the value that you would need because hey we're kind of focused on law firms so a niche would certainly give you focus it kind of gives you a place to play and I think that that's still a very an extremely valid strategy uh however if you're kind of feeling like okay but I don't really want a niche so how do I focus there's a couple of ways to think about

7:47it again a niche can certainly give you focus but you can focus without necessarily niching and this is I think the one thing I want to take away I want you all to take away from today another way to think about this though is sure like a niche can give you focus but other things can give you focus too an incredible strategy and a really great process for actually operating so the actual execution work of focusing and then also where where are we going to best play where we think we are going to win which is the basis of strategy so I'm kind of talking about this you

8:24know in in more or less intangible terms so I want to make this a little bit more concrete here's a great example of a company that does Focus really well extremely well so most of us are familiar with segment if not mistaken especially if we are in the tech space but one thing that's really interesting about segment is they definitely didn't start out the gate targeting all these different uh verticals Etc they really started focusing on just one part of the market and it was engineer engineering and tech people who managed and cared about data and they also primarily looked mid-market to Enterprise and that's where they started uh but what's

9:00kind of cool though is their customer data platform they are targeting retail actually there's like a big list that they have here but they have retail uh marketplaces media B2B all kinds of different segments and verticals they also support both startup and Enterprise but they didn't start this way again they started focusing primarily on uh the engineering community and also even more specifically at first if I'm not mistaken I believe it was startups and then later they went up market and then as they grew they added these verticals over time it wasn't like they came out the gate and they were like hey let's do the thing

9:35so that's a big company what about a smaller company so uh this is actually a company that I had the pleasure of working with if they are an influencer marketing reporting platform so if you run influencer marketing campaigns and you have challenges reporting on the success of those campaigns you can use influence kit but influence kit has really three specific targets that they're looking at at any given time and actually a lot of the work that we did was helping them stand up one particular part of that market one particular vertical and helping them ultimately achieve Focus they are working with Brands they also work with agencies and

10:10then they also work with the influencers themselves but our core work was really saying okay you're already kind of in a niche technically but really the ultimate goal is to okay but where do we focus where do we put all of our energy and how do we ultimately expand into different verticals over time in terms of the brands that they target so strategically speaking brands are the very first thing of course uh it's the ultimate Revenue driver and from there it really became all about okay what are the different verticals and industries that this ultimately applies to and we ended up with a very short list and then

10:43we uh really picked one and we moved from there we're just saying your go to market is actually really simple so I said one of the things I want to do today is to simplify because this process actually doesn't have to be super hard but I feel like we kind of make it hard because like we get a little scared but really we just need a couple of things in order to focus we ultimately need to understand the overall Global jobs to be done of our customer base so whether you have 100 customers or 2 000 customers it doesn't really matter there's likely one particular job possibly two jobs that

11:15your customer is ultimately hiring Your solution for and firing an old solution for that solution could be an actual software could also just be Behavior but what is the overall reason why they're hiring regardless of what segment they are part of doesn't matter if they are in retail Healthcare doesn't matter if you're a B2B b2c doesn't like what is the ultimate job that they are hiring this product for despite their customer segment that's the key second we ultimately need to come away with clearly defined customer segments the really cool thing about jobs work is once you understand the job of your customer base from there you can then

11:51actually identify okay great out of this job that our product is currently working or servicing what are all the segments now that cater to that job what are the segments that care about that and then finally you guys need a process that your team is ultimately going to follow and stay relatively disciplined and bright shiny object syndrome can be a company killer especially in the early days but when we think about going to market across many different verticals if we have a process that we feel really good about and the team can ultimately execute against then expanding into new markets and verticals over time it gets

12:29easier and ultimately the team feels a lot more prepared to do this and then finally it just gives you guys confidence that when you're ready to expand and to grow you ultimately can okay so you're probably wondering uh all right that sounds awesome Asia but like how do I do the thing how do I know who to focus on where do we start and the focus framework is actually very very simple here so if you're thinking about okay if I think about my customer base I've got maybe hundreds if not thousands of customers what like there's maybe like five or maybe even ten different segments or verticals within

13:07that how do I actually know who to go after the first is we're going to look at who ultimately has the greatest Market opportunity especially after knowing what the ultimate fundamental job is we call this Tam or total addressable Market in the software SAS space but if you don't have like a very clear Tam and honestly I think the process here is uh there are some Founders who will say I just made it up and there are some Founders who actually you know like they really trust their Tam um sometimes we call this Tam but I think really the ultimate gist of this is what fundamentally has the greatest

13:39Market opportunity there's the most customers here the most people that you can ultimately acquire next we really want the strongest product Market fit so once we identify okay great this is our strongest Market opportunity uh who ultimately is going to have the greatest product Market fit within that and then finally they need to be people that you actually like to support both from a customer support perspective and also from a go to market and just like acquisition perspective it's something that you guys might have expertise in it's also something that the support team or the customer success team they actually like you probably you might not necessarily

14:20want to go to market to a vertical or segment that everyone despises don't do that to yourself and or your team however you know you might you might decide that's you know there's trade-offs of course here but ideally these are people you guys like to support you like these people you want to see more of them so I want to give you a really quick example of how this process applies to thinking about uh finding those top verticals and segments so there is an inventory management uh platform specifically for Etsy made sellers before there were very uh very clear segments within this product there's handmade sellers on Etsy there's

15:00handmade sales on Shopify there's also larger manufacturing companies that potentially could use this inventory management platform but it's a little bit less of a fit if we were to think about our base and if we were to think about okay who has the ultimate best product Market fit who has the uh the greatest Market opportunity we could probably scratch off a couple of things for this particular company it's okay well we know that most of our base is not necessarily uh on the Shopify side so we can cross that out larger manufacturers we don't necessarily have the strongest Park Market fit however the first one it

15:35fits all of those requirements it's the largest market opportunity that we have strongest product Market fit and also we love supporting these people um so right off the bat we went from three different segments in a market to actually we're probably just going to focus on one but here's the caveat we're not going to say no to these others forever it's just no right now that's the beauty of focus is we're basically going to say okay we're going to go to market on these folks first and then when we're ready to expand we will we can take this process even further so if you think about okay well the

16:09handmade sellers on Etsy that's actually a pretty big category we can we can segment even further uh in this particular case we drilled down into these three so these are the three that we might ultimately end up be focused on based off of again those previously requirements when you think about your customer base and when you think about your ultimate your product your business the one question I want to ask you this is like a little thinking moment here uh but does the context of your customer segment fundamentally change how they buy so does the context of the customer segment change how they buy I'm going to give you an example let's

16:51say I am a commission tracking platform commission tracking software and my commission tracking software can be applied to three pretty different categories I might uh use this commission tracking software on my commercial real estate companies I could use it on let's say startups for sales teams and then I could also use it for let's say a really random use case inside of healthcare each of those categories have fundamentally different procurement processes buying processes requirements and needs so the context of each of those segments have fundamentally changed how they buy a startup a Founder is probably going to sign up for a free trial and kind of

17:37tool around a little bit uh the Healthcare company they might have a whole procurement Department that focuses entirely on finding and searching for software that solves this problem that solves this need and then the the commercial real estate companies I might have to actually get on the phone with those folks because they're literally never at their desks uh and it's you know it's hard to get a broker on the phone but this is the kind of thinking around the segments and verticals that we are targeting today is what is the ultimate fundamental context that they are buying in and does that change whenever we shift our view of our

18:11segment so if you're kind of like all right well based off of the segments and verticals that we have today the context doesn't really change maybe you're targeting Enterprise B2B uh and they're like the procurement process is pretty much the same no matter where you go um okay so if no then really your number one goal here is to continue focusing on an incredible customer experience however if the answer is yes if you were kind of like okay my segments they do fundamentally change uh the context like the context upon which customers buy based on their segment it does change what do we do this is where you are

18:48actually going to focus your go to market efforts really on one segment at a time and again still adhering to that Focus framework so we're really going to do our best not to stray too far out of those requirements but what we are going to do is we're actually now going to simplify the process of how we go to market okay so this is the slide that you guys are waiting for like how do we actually do the thing uh going to market across many different verticals it really does not have to be um uh it's it's not rocket science and I and I say that very tongue-in-cheek

19:20um because there's probably a rocket science company out there like in the audience today but the very first thing is we ultimately need to focus on one segment at a time for at least six months and I say six months because a lot of us have the false starts we run a campaign for two weeks or we we try sending emails to someone for like a week or so and then it doesn't work or we don't know what like the right message is then we kind of give up when we move on but what we find especially in our work especially in marketing and going to

19:53Market is the audience always moves a lot slower than the marketing never fails so it takes about six months and I would say there are some of you out there who will apply this approach and you'll probably see results very very fast but just be thinking at least six months living within a particular segment of vertical after that we want to ultimately Center our go to market activity around that particular segment or vertical and when I say go to market activity I mean there's a there's a very quick list of things here this is uh ideally your sales cadences the website so there are probably going to be pages that you

20:32build for this particular segment of vertical there's going to be campaigns ads that you likely run if ads are part of your growth strategy there's also likely going to be some prioritizing of the product roadmap and then of course there's all kinds of different like sales enablement content you might need to create really of course depends on the vertical or segment that you're targeting but what's important here is the go to market activity around that segment ultimately needs to be centered around and focused on who you're targeting after that we are then going to demonstrate credibility and this is much more um this is definitely more applicable to

21:08like Enterprise B2B however even when you look at b2c establishing credibility especially in a relatively new segment or vertical um really this is like it's pretty easy I mean it's customer testimonials it's case studies it also could be maybe you are speaking at certain conferences maybe you're also establishing credibility in other ways that's very visible to that particular segment or audience and then finally um after you go through this process and again we're living with this for you know when it's not just like two weeks it's going to be like a six month process for some of you it might actually be years especially if you are

21:46targeting again that B2B Enterprise side um but after going through this process we then get the engine going if it doesn't work we of course iterate but then after that we repeat we do it again there's a couple of caveats here uh the first is a lot of this is going to fundamentally depend on the size of your go-to Market team so the more verticals that you add ideally the more support that you have on the Marketing sales customer success Etc aside however if the goal is not to build like a big giant team that's okay you can actually still use this process it just what it's going to look like is

22:26you might not continue to run those campaigns after you get the engine going you might decide to move on for a while to something else of course it really I say it depends like a typical marketer but it does kind of depend really depends on your situation and ultimately what you want to accomplish in this process one thing again to remember is the market is always going to move slower than your marketing it takes what I think like an hour these days to set up a Google ads account and to start running your very first Google ads campaign but it's probably going to take the market a little bit longer to catch

23:01up so it's really important that you actually give yourselves enough time to to make momentum and to see the result at the end of the day so if you're kind of like okay but like that seems really easy Asia I don't know I'm not sure if I believe all of this why is it that easy I promise you it really is that easy the reason why we do it this way there's a couple of reasons first if we try to go to market across many different verticals all at once a couple things happen the team is spread too thin and the story that I told earlier kind of happens all over again

23:32now we don't really know where to focus we're not really sure like what to do next it's not really clear because you know Susie's over here like running campaigns for e-commerce but then Gary is over here like doing a whole other thing and it doesn't seem like we're all like moving in the same direction so we do we take this approach one segment at a time building things as we go instead of trying to do everything all at once purely because we don't just we just don't want to spread ourselves too thin we don't want to risk the burnout of trying all these different things across

24:00all these different segments and verticals and then not getting the result that we want to see the second reason why we do this is because one thing that you're going to find is as you go to market across many different verticals and across many different segments over time you're going to notice that your customer base is going to not only expand but also change you're going to start seeing different kinds of customers you're going to start seeing different kinds of jobs to be done and needs and what's really important about this process is by going one segment at a time you actually allow yourself to remain open

24:34to new customer opportunities uh one thing you don't necessarily want to do is say okay these are our three segments forever uh it's a little bit risky there are some you know who can do that and they're very successful with it but what I would recommend based off of what we've seen is as you go through this process you might find that there's actually another segment that pops up that has uh incredible product Market fit a great Market opportunity and taking this approach allows you to be open and flexible to that happening and then of course if it doesn't happen you stay the course and you you continue

25:06your existing strategy and then finally the other reason why we approach it this way is we want to make sure that we're building a go-to market team that can ultimately stay flexible and also is the right team uh especially if we're not sure if certain segments are going to pan out so this is the other reason why we take this approach but I promise you it is actually uh it can actually be very simple the hardest part really is just getting the focus and then committing to it and being disciplined so I wanted to use a real life example as we as we close out today this is a

25:42company that I feel like most of us are probably familiar with probably like all familiar with profitwell I do not work with or for profit well in any capacity I'm actually really just taking a look at their website and I'm I'm making my best guess based off of what I've seen on their social what I'm seeing on their blog but profitwell and also price intelligently this is um how would you I guess like subscription subscription metrics platform I'm actually not sure what the exact category is but profile is very interesting because most of us probably know them as B2B SAS um actually maybe not even B2B maybe it's actually just

26:15SAS subscription metrics platform but what's been really cool to see is profitwell is actually expanding not just from SAS but they're actually expanding into new categories as we speak and this has been I would say like a one to two year long process that I've been observing this and it's been it's been interesting because I think a lot of us might have seen maybe some content coming out of them lot of us might not have actually seen this but they're starting to expand into D to C which is very interesting because there's uh it's it's a it's an applicable use case but in a pretty different vertical but there

26:48are some similarities so what profitwell's doing is they're starting to expand their website so they're creating landing pages for this particular vertical and segment they're also creating content specifically for this vertical or segment it's really interesting because when you look at their SAS content or their SAS focused content there's a lot of like written articles uh they have they have I think a podcast and I think they also have like a video um Channel as well if not mistaken but for their d2c customers it's really clear they're really going hard specifically on rich media because when I think about d2c it kind of makes sense it's a it's a medium that this audience

27:26is more likely to engage with but they're not just stopping there uh they are of course creating landing pages specific to this particular vertical as they expand into it and then finally they have restructured their website a little bit as well so in this drop down for those who are in the back and probably can't see uh they have the B2B subscription landing page the b2c subscription landing page which is their d2c version they also of course have e-commerce and media so these are their different verticals they are ultimately targeting but it seems like from just from what I can see on social and I'm not getting like any of their emails or

28:01anything on the d2c side but it kind of seems like this year for them has been focused on expanding into this particular Market which has been really cool to see because I think it's a great example one thing to keep in mind though is as they are expanding into this different segment they haven't really changed their website or their home page I should say the home page is still focused on that core value prop if I were to kind of take a step back and guess like what the jobs to be done would be for profit well it's probably when I can't measure the performance and

28:34success of my business give me a platform that does exactly that so I can confidently grow my subscription-based business but what's cool about that job is doesn't really matter if you're SAS or if you're d2c or whatever vertical if you have that problem then you're probably going to evaluate profit will in your specific context or your specific lens so they didn't like overhaul the home page and like say okay we're gonna double down on d2c like on the home page they really just created other assets to make sure that customers had those things available to them to make the best decision and I think the other thing too to keep

29:07in mind here is that they didn't ultimately alienate their original SAS audience do we all really care if profitwell expands into d2c probably not your customers probably also don't care if you expand into another vertical and especially if you have really strong positioning and messaging on your home page you're probably going to attract the various verticals and segments that you want anyway which is the magic of of not only great marketing but thinking about expansion from the go to market perspective all right so real quick recap on going to market across many different verticals we're going to identify those top one to three segments we're going to

29:47go to market one segment at a time and then we're going to iterate and we're going to expand if we like these new segments and verticals if we are successful with them uh then it's either we continue to focus and grow them or move on either one no wrong answer here ultimately really depends again on your product your goals and what you want to do right that is everything for me this slide did not load the way it was intended to load but I'm going to prayer Emoji anyway and thank you so much for your time [Applause] questions

30:33thanks those are really amazing talk as Founders what indicators should we be looking for to kind of help us differentiate between whether something is actually a good potential Market segment for us to Target and when we're having shiny object syndrome oh yes that's such a great question okay so the question was um what are the indicators that it's an actual viable segment versus a bright shiny object great question and really I think it's ultimately uh what if I don't know what the top segments are or like what if what if that's unclear um okay there's a couple ways to think about this the first way is when you go

31:14through your uh assuming that you also you already have customers when you go through your existing customer base uh usually signals for market segments are already there if you don't have signals in your existing customer base and you are this is an entirely new part of the market you don't have any customers in that space you're actually going to go through what we call customer Discovery you're going to go through the customer Discovery process and one of my absolute favorite books is that I recommend all the time is lean product Playbook and there's actually a whole entire part of this book where he describes the author

31:50describes the process of okay what if I don't know if this segment is viable what are the questions I need to ask what are like what does the interview process look like how do I actually get that information that's one way that you can approach understanding if this segment is going to be viable for you or not or it's just a bright shiny object I think the other thing though is if it's truly the second way I think about this is if it's truly a market opportunity uh it's unless like there's some Market Force that happens that is unpredictable cough covered um then there's probably like that Market's

32:26probably still going to be there when like after you kind of double down on whatever top customer segment you already have so if it's something that can wait for a minute awesome uh keep that in your back pocket and when you go through the process of okay we're ready for expansion that segment can be in that list and you can reevaluate it then as well but what we don't want to do is what we we don't want to fundamentally reshift our priority strategically unless we absolutely have to uh and and the market opportunity on the other side of that has to be pretty dang great for

32:58you to you know kind of shift the point to ship in a different direction that's how I would think about that thanks for the presentation so sometimes six months you mentioned the process six months sometimes it's a lot of time for for startups like life for that what level of activity is expected in those six months to prove the the segment and can it be accelerator somehow yeah such a great question um so here's the thing I think if we don't know if it's a viable segment then we kind of have to go through the process anyway of validating it right um but if we're pretty sure it's a valid

33:37segment I think the question I would ask actually back would be would you rather spend three to six months really committing to something to know that the next two to five years would be set or would you rather continue to kind of like jump in a bunch of different places and that's kind of the way that I think about it uh yes there is a little bit of a um there is certainly risk here but I think if we're thinking about mitigating risk then the best way to do that is to go through this discovery and development phase and that's how I would think about kind of minimizing that then

34:08spending five to six months probably doesn't feel as bad if you're pretty confident in it but you asked about acceleration which I think is interesting at the end of the day it's going to depend on your Market it's going to depend on the segment if we're thinking about accelerating B2B Enterprise sales um there's only so many things that we can do up to a point at the same exact time however depending on that market segment you might find that it is actually possible to accelerate and in terms of like what is the list of things to do I mean we're at the very bare minimum we're expanding

34:41our website we're running campaigns and I'll you know I'll let you decide to what degree do we run those campaigns because if you have the budget and the time to go all out that could be a way that you accelerate it but at the very bare minimum that's it and then on top of that what's our talk track what's the message that we put out to those people what's the experience that we need to provide those people to best maximize and that's going to depend on your product whether you have a demo model or a free trial model whether you have email onboarding I mean you got to

35:11think about every single touch point of the customer experience um that I would say would honestly be the bare minimum I think anything that's else that's left on the table is really another opportunity to improve conversion any other questions

35:29great talk um I was wondering if if the use of pricing to separate verticals ever makes sense or it's kind of standard pricing across all the verticals yeah oh good question C is typically what we see is based off of the segment or vertical ideally your model doesn't have to fundamentally change unless you're going up market and now you got to figure out like Enterprise pricing that's that's usually what we see um ideally though your your model doesn't have to totally break and get you know rebuilt it's rare that we've seen that um what we usually see though is again unless the market context unless it fundamentally changes how

36:14someone buys probably don't have to totally dramatic change you know change the pricing I will say what what is confusing from a customer experience is seeing that there's pricing for one particular segment and then they kind of like wander off into another part of the website and they see pricing for a different segment they're kind of like wait a minute so that that's kind of a uh it's like a it's a tough situation to to navigate but generally I would say simplify it if you if that segment or vertical is truly aligned you probably don't have to break apart your whole model and like rebuild it again unless

36:47you're going like Enterprise and then you kind of do because that's just the way Enterprise works sometimes any more questions thanks so much Asia [Applause]

37:16foreign