Do this to make more money from your startup

0:00everything needs to earn its pixels so if there's a pixel on a page you know meaning the the the base element of a page is a small little pixel like that everything needs to earn its way on there so if there like like if you took this off the page like locate your Brands exist everywhere your customers and future customers are having conversations on the internet if you were to take this part out do you think it would change the page at all yeah it change it for the better yeah okay so it does not earn its pixels in fact it's dragging the page down so thanks for

0:35being honest by the way um so so same with analyze we analyze your current state of the union yeah whatever it's just it's just kind of like uh fluffy text right it doesn't help people aren't going to be blown away by this they are blown away by this though right so there's something different here this is a plus this is maybe C minus at best so if you got rid of that why not just just get rid of it so everything must earn its pixels everything must pull its weight on the page don't just put crap there because you can or because it was already there and you're too afraid to

1:08hit the [Music] but ring ring ring who who am I calling right now uh it's it's Neville madora from copyrighting course well Neville I need some help I need some TLC Tender Love and copy on a couple of my companies dude I should be paying you after that kind of slogan making that's pretty good yeah well let's do it let's let's let's share some screens Let's uh tear some stuff down and ask you personal questions about these websites of yours during this during this pod we're gonna the goal is to well my goal is for you to help me but by watching this or listening to this you will learn

2:01how to write copy that cells and uh so it's a win-win yeah I guess what we're going to do is we're going to look at pages of yours and see if I can make them better and see what's good what sucks and maybe some different strategies we could put on them and the reason that this is helpful uh I don't know about you Greg but I get like what's called like familiarity blindness so if I look at my own sales Pages I've seen them literally like 10,000 times I can't see anything wrong with them I know them so well that I'm like clearly this explains the product perfect

2:30but then other people look at them and they're like wait you do office hours and I'm like that was like half the page and clearly I messed up somewhere so it's no problem when people ask they're just like we don't know what to do with this page I'm like yeah that happens with everyone I can't update my own pages but you could probably look at it instantly spot what's going on so I think that's what we're going to do today all right let's get into it so first one design scientists so tell me something before we look at this page I I want to show you my process so okay

2:59I'm looking at this page P looks cool looks like it's designed pretty well I guess it's got stuff I kind of don't care um the first thing I'm going to do is this I'm gonna make my screen really small so I'm gonna do command minus on my Mac and be like what am I supposed to click and I guess I could kind of see that I'm supposed to click one of these things and one of these things is that right that's right okay so I don't even know what those are yet I haven't even like really looked at it but right away what is it it's book a free call okay so

3:33the goal of your page I'm assuming is to get people to book a call yes so so this page exists solely to get them here if the website works well it generates calls and then on the call we show so okay what is design should I should I say what design scientist.com is no no no we're we're not even we're not even there yet your goal is to get them to fill this out click Wednesday 11th at 12:30 and then fill out their name right correct um have yall ever tried putting it just like right there instead like have you ever tried just putting it here

4:06instead is that something you've ever tried we H we haven't that could boost conversions right away like I said like I don't really care about the copy and stuff I care about the results that the page like you having awesome copy on your page is is not really the goal I view this as like a really fancy business card and how can we get them to call us so the less amount of steps that you have the better like like for example if you were to take all of the information off of this page I'm just going to highlight all of this and I'm going to

4:37delete it and this is the whole page now and all you had was book a free call I bet more people would click that button and so if you just had like you know this book a free call link up on the page right away I bet more people would actually click it and know about it so one simple trick before we even get into it is like you could put that right on the page just just a consideration totally with that what is design scientist so it's kind of funny because what design scientist.com does is it works with startups and companies to help them with visual assets that

5:15convert and that generates clicks cash and shares H so many people have hired designers uh and they're sitting in their Williamsburg apartment with you know thick glasses or glasses that look like mine um you're describing yourself here so many people have worked with me um and they end up getting design assets that don't really convert at all um and I think that nowadays you know I you know what is a design scientist my goal of a design scientist is what if a designer wasn't just an artist so it's you know onethird copywriter oneir third designer and onethird marketer and so we built a we built a team that does that

6:05for other companies and it's funny Neville because it's kind of like how you know how a doctor some of the some of the most unhealthy people in the world are doctors yeah it's like we put up this website so quickly for ourselves um because the team is busy you know doctoring for other companies so I need you to help me get what's in my brain on this page design scientist so here's one of I'm gonna pull up your X over here one of the things that I'm biggest about is it's like instead of telling people can we just show people because a lot of you're talking about IM visual assets

6:46that convert and here's the problem I don't particularly see any of these visual assets on the page like what are you talking are you talking about like stuff like this no I'm talking about like Brands websites mobile apps infographics okay so let's say I'm just going to pull anything right here so I'm going to say this is the the stuff you did and before it looked like I don't know this whatever you know horrible example but for speed's sake let's do that so what if I said before 30 clicks and one page visit zero sales sad face right and I'm just moving really fast here for then then it says

7:35after design scientist you get 3500 clicks 150 page visits and 10 sales 400k revenue H happy face shh don't tell anyone but I've got 30 plus startup ideas that could make you millions and I'm giving them away for free these aren't just random guesses they're validated Concepts from entrepreneurs who built hundred million plus businesses I've compiled them into one simple database compiled from hundreds of conversations I've had on my podcast but the main thing is most of these ideas don't need a single investor some cost nothing to start I'm pretty much handing you a cheat sheet the idea bank is your startup shortcut just click below to get

8:42access your next cash flowing business is waiting for you now we didn't write any really like groundbreaking content or anything over here but this is pretty obvious of what just happened right and so I think people can say oh I want a similar type of result Maybe maybe we can get something like that so I call this like showing not telling instead of saying that like we make visual assets it's like what if we just had before and after and be like these are the kinds of results if you just had like three different case studies of this on the page I think I would much better get an

9:16idea of what this is and to be honest I've followed you for a while and I've always looked at your stuff like late checkout design scientists I've never understood exactly what they do because it doesn't show me um I understand it's a design agency but so I get I get the overall like concept of what you do I don't know what you actually create so if you were to do something like this and just show me Creations right here and results I would probably understand it pretty quickly it's so interesting because in our calls remember we were talking about booking calls well in the calls what we have is the sales team the

9:52bis Dev team they're like they basically go through before and after like that's the pitch so what you're saying is maybe it's about taking what's in the sales calls in the decks and the images and the befores and afters and kind of extracting it from the the sales calls putting it on the website as like a main main feature yeah and and these types of things actually do a lot more than people expect like it's not just showcasing your work but it's actually showing who you work with so let's say we copy and paste this exact example and we copied again so we could say like uh

10:27Proctor and Gamble right let's just say they were the one that this was for well what that tells me is that you work with Fortune 100 companies right so someone else so like let's say dell approaches you and they're like well we don't know if they can work with a Fortune 100 company like us they see Proctor and Gamble on there they go cool they can so once again it's kind of like showing not telling so I think that these kinds of results actually go really really far and just showcasing your work really quick and people go I want that let's get on that calendar call

10:59whereas right now I browse your site and it's kind of like you need creativity that converts buzzwords how we can help companies grow and then you list out all the basic chat GPT stuff of like what is involved in a design company uh the Einstein and design okay whatever but the thing is I don't really actually know what you've delivered here so I bet on your sales call you have a presentation that shows that you deliver analytics that you do split tests that you've done like AI analysis or whatever and you show ex actual examples you probably already have all this content you're just not showing it over here

11:31totally this is really clicking for me we actually can I show you something another website real quick yeah so we just updated our late checkout. agency website which is our uh basically a higher-end if you go to late checkout. agency it's kind of our higher-end version of design scientist so this is what works with like Fortune 50 companies and we added this right here we added this last week and dude I'm gonna screenshot that for my Swip file it's so good you don't know how many calls and in and emails that we've gotten from like the biggest AI companies SAS companies that have seen this and be like oh my God they're

12:14working with well if they're working with the CPO of fortnite and you know and I'm the CPO of EA games I need to work with them what we did here is we literally deleted our like we had a crappy kind of like design scientist website before and we just like deleted it and just put this and this is converting like 20x more 30X more yeah exactly and then also just I'm just I'm just brainstorming over here on this one yeah but one thing like one I just love it like I said I actually took a screenshot to put it on my own site swipe file where I just collect all cool

12:45marketing what if you even put and I don't think you could actually do this just with like confidentiality blah blah blah but the next step would be you put result and then you said like you know 400,000 more users fortnite you know 75% more in purchase whatevers gramarly 70,000 new users a day yeah right whatever so so that kind of stuff even takes it a step further for with with results assuming you have awesome results like that and assuming that they let you say that which a lot of places will be a little bit squeamish about Neville are you saying I should put basically add a column and and put the

13:31results there is that what you're saying if you're allowed to and if the results kick ass okay so go to go back to late checkout. Agency for a second so see if you scroll down we put a couple of um but no one reads that I feel like no one no one's like and we build it for them and then read it read it I feel like your idea is way better just put it in the table yeah ain't nobody reading that no one no one got to nine figures of Revenue right just I'm just taking millions of downloads right just just the basics and and the thing is sometimes people get a

14:12little too wrapped up in like well you know technically uh we can't say exactly the numbers because it's confidential it's just like give me an millions of downloads can we say that just a generic statement I don't need to know exactly what you did for for Shopify that's maybe for like a sales call that's we're not putting that on the website so yeah just something like this uh so instead of this which honestly I didn't I didn't read I think most people didn't you could have just put it right here where all the gold is already and um that's all you need to do yeah that'd be sick so so this way this

14:47way people know what they are getting um if you were to do this for design scientist it would be a similar graph maybe but it would say something like created 400 social media assets right created three viral posts exactly three million views that's right total right stuff like that so then someone goes so then someone goes to design scientists and they're like oh they create visual assets for like social media uh exactly brand new website converts 9 billion per you know whatever so those are the types of things that you could put on there and instantly someone gets the idea I know what they do so we don't have to tell them we

15:37don't have to write long paragraphs of copy if you've got results like this I mean just show it there there's no reason in chatting a bunch yeah dude yes yeah I mean this this kicks ass so this is already doing really well and remember what I told you the top of the call if you were to take out all this crap on design uh design scientist and just put like a book now thing and maybe a couple before and afters you get more results that's literally what this is it's like one piece of content essentially and then like request a brainstorm yeah also by the way great

16:13way to put the I really damn okay you really nailed it on this page I'm GNA take another screenshot here real quick I wrote a post about this brainstorm I wrote a post about this button so that is sick if you if you go to Greg Eisenberg decom and grab my newsletter you'll get posts like this but um yeah actually it's on my CK my convert kit so if you go to Greg eberg I

16:36guess it's Greg eber. ck. Page is that what convertkit is now yeah Greg eber. ck. Page request to brainstorm is great I'm gonna steal that so Kudos on that one that's sick Yeah so basically we changed it from book now to uh request a a brainstorm because people come to us for ideas like uh a grammarly will come to us for like hey I want to I need ideas I want to I want Innovation I want to see where it's going to go buttons it's called buttons that's the uh oh damn you gota be a subscriber dude you're not a subscriber that's crazy um anyways there we

17:16go so we changed that and it it literally I think like two or 3x conversion rate just by request to brainstorm and that's a that's a so if I click that that's also just like a connect with us type thing why do you do why do you do this connect with us versus a calendar thing have you noticed any difference on that so with uh LCA we the model is we only work with like 12 clients a year so it's very much we don't it's not it's not like we want a ton of calls it's just about we want the most interesting companies in the world so um that's why we look at

17:56who applies and then we'll only work with maybe 0.1% of it yeah that kicks ass so this is for agencies yeah yeah so so this page is I I think it's like an okay page I would rate this like a B minus yeah um in my mind I also like looking at it in Mobile and just to see and I think it looks better in Mobile actually I think it just has like a lot of white space oh here's here's another concept that I that I always look at uh I call it like brain Cycles you know how a computer works you know megahertz and stuff like that it's how many cycles

18:33happen per second and I think how many cycles per second does my brain need to understand what's happening on this page the less the better right so right now I'm like design Revenue unique creative that conver converts so we're talking about you know you got like a buzzword here you got a buzzword over here and buzzwords stacked together compound so it's like buzzword buzzword squared buzzword cubed in terms of complexity so my brain is like okay I kind of understand what they're talking about roughly but I'm having to like compute like but what do they do and so there's a lot of brain Cycles going on which I

19:10find a failure um however if we had this over here or when you have this one right very few brain Cycles to figure this out like it's pretty obvious what's happening or if you saw this before and after zero sales now you got 100 thousands of Revenue understood like right that doesn't take a lot of brain Cycles so reducing brain Cycles is a big thing that I like to tell people when looking at a page I don't even have to read it most of the time we just look at it and be like this is confusing there's some I don't know random ass drawings over here

19:42that's fine our procedure and then like ass tons of white space over here for some reason which I don't know sometimes to me like my brain goes like is that a mistake like you know maybe the web designer in me is thinking that so yeah that this is generally how I go through a page the other concept I'd like to harp on is this is that everything needs to earn its pixels so if there's a pixel on a page you know meaning the the base element of a page is a small little pixel like that everything needs to earn its way on there so if there like like if you took

20:20this off the page like locate your Brands exist everywhere your customers and future customers are having conversations on the internet if you were to take this part out do you think it would change the page at all yeah it change it for the better yeah okay so it does not earn its pixels in fact it's dragging the page down so thanks for being honest by the way um so so same with analyze we analyze your current state of the union yeah whatever it's just it's just kind of like fluffy text right it doesn't help people aren't going to be blown away by this they are blown away by this

20:58though right so there's something different here this is A+ this is maybe C minus at best so if you got rid of that why not just just get rid of it so everything must earn its pixels everything must pull its weight on the page don't just put crap there because you can or because it was already there and you're too afraid to hit the delete button so another important concept yeah and then and then lastly I think this one's important uh on pages I do what's called the caveman voice and like do you remember those old Geico commercials with like the dumb caveman where people see like this dumb looking Caveman with

21:30long hair and and they're like oh he's an idiot and he responds back like I'm actually really smart well the thing is like imagine there's a dumb caveman and he's reading the page and he's just scrolling blury eyed it doesn't really give a and he's kind of like dumb dumb dumb I don't care for some reason there's a picture of Einstein yeah okay that's how I read pages like I don't pay attention I I read like the average person on the internet does and I think that's what really helps you uh understand what's good and what's not so when I saw this you visibly saw my eyes

22:02light up and go like oh and then I started hitting command Shift 4 to take a screenshot that's good me scrolling through like a dumb caveman going like H okay stupid whatever I don't care that's probably a bad thing right like you're really not grabbing anyone over there so couple couple of uh important Concepts over there to learn I want to my my yes very very cool my my reaction to that on the caveman voice thing is for and this is relevant for anyone who wants to start an agency as agency owners we all try to sound smart yeah right like because our job is to be smart to help other companies

22:43that's the service that we're providing what you're saying is kind of you know write like you speak and just talk very simply um and I believe I believe you like I believe that that'll work what if you just said something like this I'm I'm totally making stuff up over here right but if you had something that said here's three examples that THX Revenue in three months that's that's something grabbing right take some of your like high-end let's see if this okay well that doesn't look great but you get you kind of get the point over here if you just put that over there instead of like

23:20our hypothesis you know that could just grab a lot more interest and get people it's like screenshotted people want to save it and be like oh my God that's so awesome like they did this like this is how it looked and now it looks like this and that had such a big impact that's what we want as well so I think stuff like that is like pretty simple to do especially if you're an agency that already has a lot of good results so I'll I've I've done work for agencies all the time this is very common that they're like it's a little embarrassing that we're a marketing agency but we're

23:49reaching out to someone to tell us what to do for marketing and I was like it's familiarity blinds it's totally okay and I asked them all these cool what can you share about your results and they have crazy ass results and I'm like wouldn't it be helpful to just put that on the page over here and they're like oh yeah I never thought about it so yes very simple to do because i' I've seen your page a million times I had no idea what you did to know um should we look at a A Different Page yeah the other aha moment before before we click that

24:19is your page can literally just be one image basically so uh yeah start your website by like one image and then just kind of like layer on as you need fit as you you know as it earns its pixels as you say so that was a big aha moment for me I will often before uh I come up with business ideas in my head all the time uh I think yeah you see like right here on my page there's like a folder that says ideas and I come up with stuff all the time and what happens is I find it really helpful to actually write the

24:52sales page or homepage first and this is a thing I learned from like base camps Jason free he always talked about this back in the day he's like write the copy out and like a text editor no Rich formatting no bold no text sizes no nothing just write out the copy you want and then build off of that and I've always taken that to heart because it really gets at the it gets the heart of like what you are trying to promote what you're trying to sell and how you're describing the product and what the value proposition is if you start designing the page which is always tempting you're going in

25:21framer you're going in whatever WordPress it's tempting to like make it look pretty but we're not trying to make pages that look pretty that's not our goal our goal is to get a page that converts and so I do think it's really really helpful when you're starting a business idea try to write at the sales pitch and you'll quickly realize oh this is a bad pitch this this isn't good and so I I I have discouraged myself from doing a lot of businesses that'll take me a lot of time with no result by writing out the pitch first and then I'm like yeah this sucks I've I've so many

25:53people told me to make a a copywriting agency I start writing out the page and I start quickly realizing like the problems of like why it wouldn't work too well so very helpful to do quick ad break let me tell you about a business I invested in it's called boring marketing.com so a few years ago I met this group of people that were some of the best SEO experts in the world they were behind getting some of the biggest companies found on Google and the secret sauce is they've got a set of technology and AI that could help you out rank your competition so for my own businesses I

26:31wanted that I didn't want to have to rely on Mark Zuckerberg I didn't want to depend on ads to drive customers to my businesses I wanted to rank high in Google that's why I like SEO and that's why I use boring marketing.com and that's why I invested in it they're so confident in their approach that they offer a 30-day Sprint with 100% money back guarantee who does that nowadays so check it out highly recommend boring marketing.com all right Community Empire let's do it this is this is like I'm so embarrassed with with this copy but so once again I'm going to I'm G to make this really small and just like look at

27:08it visually the page looks nice it's super small I could tell that I'm probably supposed to click this I guess or this okay so at least kind of know what to do um I think there's like a call to action here and a cool picture I don't know what it is yet looks pretty simple already I'm kind of liking this page I I don't I don't hate it so if I can let's say for creators on build your internet Empire product generate okay um I think my biggest issue is I don't know like is this a CO is this a course is this a cohort do it start at a certain time I

27:45think that's just my main questions already um I love this picture though I think it's kind of cool feature business building more than a community ship it's a membership okay is this an ongoing m ship that I could like go to like school.com and click like SLG Greg or something yeah so the idea here was um yeah I think it's it's called Community Empire so let's see if that pulls up but the idea here was solo preneurship is pretty lonely and I think there's also a lot of people like Indie hackers people who want to build businesses without taking Venture Capital but a lot of people don't have the accountability

28:27they don't have the knowhow they want to build internet audiences they want to build communities um they need swipe files for a lot of this stuff um so and then selfishly I wanted a group of people who um I could hang out with connect with invest in hire like we've hired PE hired people from this group we've uh we've been you know been in talks recently actually I'm buying someone's company from this space so it keeps me at like the Nexus of this people so um it's it's a membership for people who want to accelerate building a business without VC money or and are you talking about

29:09building a business specifically like as a community like on school or is it like does this have to do with Community it doesn't um so my whole thing the way the way I build businesses is using something called the ACP framework um yeah so ACP talks about that yeah yeah it's basically a it's basically like a funnel so you start um you start with the audience so you build like you know you start off by building a Google doc of some copy I start off by registering a Twitter account and just start tweeting so I start by building an audience and then from there I convert that into a

29:51private Community to try to learn uh a little bit more get the power users and then from there I build a product and service to service that community so everything I build and I'm betting my whole I've been been been Bing my whole career on this has been using the ACP funnel so no to answer your question you don't have to build a community to like on school but I do believe that having a community helps accelerate the ACP funnel that's pretty cool I I do like that so I guess you don't drive people directly to the school page you get them to like apply before they can get in yeah and that's

30:31just so you can vet people before they come in and kind of stink up the place that's why we recently changed it is because um we want to we want to keep it a really high quality group so the weight list helps do that so okay so a commun I I run a community one thing that you might want to do have you talked about the people who are in there right so for example let's say I go to uh a Hustle con event right so there's going to be like the founders of Wei workor and the founders of whatever big company or some crap like that up on

31:05stage I'm probably not going to get to meet them but I'm gonna be able to mingle with other people in the crowd so that's a big part of why I'm going to go there who else is in this community of note like does anyone you don't have to name names or anything but is there anyone of note or do they have like a cool business going any anyone you have in there yeah I don't know if I want to like put them on blast but I will say that there's several people who've who either have eight figur nine figure businesses or built them in the past

31:30yeah let's not name names however let's talk generally so remember one we'll just talk about generally n figure yeah go ahead uh yeah nine figure boot trap business member two would be um co-founder in multi-billion dollar VC backed business but now he's interested in cash flow so that's why he joined what about this you definitely heard it let's say it's like Casper or something like that right like we don't have to put them on blast but we could talk in vague terms remember three etc etc etc right so I'm just gonna copy a couple of these now if you were to put like three five six 10 of these like this is this is

32:18kind of like you know what Sam's doing with Hampton or something like that it's like the the the purpose is like who else you are going to meet inside the community it's not just access to you so so you can say I want you to be part of this crew and awesome convos going on inside I also wonder if you could talk about specific conversations inside um I assume yall talk through the school platform it's like a chat thing Forum Facebook post kind of stuff is that is that how it works we do um but we also have weekly workshops um within so we'll do like Zoom type stuff

33:02can you give me an example and once again you you could OB skute names or whatever of something that's happened inside of a weekly Workshop that's kind of cool sorry to put you on blast right away and think um so I mean first of all we've had guests who I think are super interesting like um Andrew Wilkinson uh co-founder of tiny which is a another really big holding company MH um and then he'll come and he'll talk about let's say holding companies we'll have um here let me pull up yeah don't worry I'm I'm just going to make names we we'll we'll keep going I'm gonna say Tim

33:38Ferris and Mark Cuban for fun whatever okay so inside what are some like conversations that have had like are they talking with you sometimes it's like an office hours where they ask you questions and you answer sometimes it'll be with me sometimes it'll be with my team but it'll be um very tactical so it' be like how to get from Zer to 100,000 followers with uh you know seanp I'm just making an example um but they're all they're all like that um so we'll take an expert and it'll all be really uh around the tactics to get from point A to point B like give the secret sauce and then we

34:20also run something called Sprints mhm which is um you know in the next 30 days we're going to go collectively get to 100,000 followers so everyone signs up to a Sprint and we provide um like a lot of the curriculum the trainings the guest speakers the accountability to help get get you there and then everyone kind of shares um what they're learning so to okay so that's that's pretty cool what makes it even more real is you give like an actual example so Mark got 20,000 followers with a super viral post you got 15,000 followers collectively we hit 115,000 new followers in one month right like some sort of result is often kind

35:11of cool yes um also and this is really hard I actually I have a problem with this I actually made a module inside of copyrighting course where we just talk about recent office hour sessions because I people have asked me this in the past like what do you do in office hours I'm like I forget and every week we have dope questions um so so here's all the ones we did from like the last office hours and it goes on and on this is all just from August right and it goes on and on and on and on and so um it would be helpful to put a couple

35:42of those like really cool conversations preferably that have resulted in an action because if you just a lot of people will put testimonials and stuff like Greg is awesome cool who gives a um it's like Greg is awesome he helped take my company from Z to10 billion in one day much better right there's like a result in there so I think having some sort of like results from these convos and listing out maybe three of them like like Billy was doing X but after talking to Greg he did y now they get 100,000 plus customers right some sort of result coming from these conversations uh the other thing could

36:30be Jason got hired by Greg now he's head of marketing whatever so these kinds of results are what are really cool to see and once again show don't tell like you could just be like here's here's what's going on here's some of the results you don't have to like you know be vague about it cool but I I do like the look of this page I I actually think it's like well done I would like to see more about who's in there um if you're allowed to say some of the people yeah I think that's really really helpful like I know these are guest guest e experts and

37:08stuff but they're not in the thing um so saying who's in there would be really really cool um yeah that's a good page so it looks like you already got like a decent amount of members in there right yeah I mean it's it's it's one of those no-brainer offers like I'm I'm buying School school cost $99 a month so this costs $149 a month so for $49 a month you're getting access to uh you know these peer groups workshops all the content pretty much everything and I don't even think it's on the page but there's also a million dollars of software discounts that you get with the

37:48membership um which is pretty insane so um I don't know how long we're going to do this for in in the sense that um I don't know how long I'll continue buying school memberships for people and I don't know how long we can continue giving this much value at this price but it it is for now I yeah is there like some sort of urgency that you could put on these and urgency is always best when it's tied to something real if you just say like sale ends in three days and it's just you know August 27th or whatever it's not as real as if it ends

38:24like at the end of the quarter or at the on New Year or on Christmas or on Black Friday cybermonday Etc so it might be interesting and to what I do actually what I found works well is if we're going to do a promotion tying it to Q3 and Q4 is always really good Q3 is great because it's often like the doldrums for a lot of people in sales summer is kind of slow for a lot of companies not all and what happens is you have time to like redo all of your promotions that happen in Q4 and just remember in Q4 you've got Halloween you got

38:56Thanksgiving you got Columbus you got holidays you got um Cyber Monday Black Friday Christmas New Year's and these are all great times for people to buy they're in the buying mood but also more importantly like I tell Q4 is always big for us because people want to say like all right 2025 I'm gonna get my business into shape I'm gonna redo all our autoresponders I'm gonna redo our emails I'm gonna update our Pages I'm gonna get Neville's help with it um and so Q4 is always big because we can tie urgency to something that's real meaning like 2025 is about to start you need to get your

39:28together if you didn't do it this year so it could be interesting to have some sort of urgency where you get people in all at one time um so that could be something like next enrollment or it could be a sale or it could be just like a Q4 promotion where there's no sale but just saying like hey this is a great time to get in so next year you can start off right I like that I also I wonder what you think of this I mean the reality is I I I don't know exactly how many members we have like 330 or something but the reality is once we get to let's

40:00say 450 500 we're just we'll either cap it or um the price will just be significantly higher um we actually started off at $99 a month but we just had to increase it so we can like publicize basically those numbers and be like these are if if you think this is a good idea you know at 400 people it's going to be uh $200 a month at 450 it's going to be 250 at500 it's going to be 350 what do you think about that I think it's okay I think it's a little bit slightly dense con concept and the thing is it's not backed up by anything if you

40:37were to say since like do you have like employees that work inside of this or anything yes yes okay if you tie it to that be like to manage to give the level of uh service to each customer at 100 people I had to hire it couldn't just be me I had to hire someone at 200 people I had to hire another person at 400 people another person right if it's tied to something real I think that's good I think the whole like 400 price increase it's I think it's okay I don't think it's like Earth shattering a lot of people would be like yeah okay whatever

41:10you're at 340 you're not even at 400 yet but I I do think like saying that you're G to cap it at a certain level so you can have a certain level of service I think that's kind of cool cool yeah I like that for example sorry if if you're going to do like next enrollment starts for Q4 and then say like once we get to 500 we stop accepting I think that's powerful like those two concepts are good you know yeah cool I like it let me ask you a question you do a lot of communities like this right is it or or is it just the only community that

41:41you're part of no tons okay I mean have you noticed that like it used to be like maybe 10 years ago or or maybe even more courses were popular because you couldn't get all this information online now you've got YouTube you got X you got all these places that just AI that just give all that information essentially for free right so I have noticed and tell me if you notice this too course creators are all moving to communities now right yeah uh course creators are moving to communities and communities are actually moving to memberships and to me there's a difference between community and a membership interesting a membership yeah

42:18my a membership to me is I'm paying for access to be you know ident identify as Xyz and I'm paying for access to this XYZ membership and what I get out of that could be a community could be software could be deals could be content could be XY you know XYZ whereas a community is just you're paying for access to other people and I just think that a lot of people are burnt out of you know paying for another paid Community just so they can hang out with other people that's my that's that's like lame I feel like you could do that in a lot of places for free now there's

43:01all sorts of free discords there Reddit there's all sorts of uh different Facebook groups and stuff like that also U one thing one thing I've noticed for is I've noticed that people have moved out of like the Facebook group model that was really popular a few years ago and people got a little flamed out on it and I think the reason is they were going based on engagement so they'd be like what's your favorite color what's your favorite software tool and that works well for like a few like days or months but then people get tired of like these like random engagement posting type things and so I think

43:35that's the reason that a lot of memberships have had had struggles I think one of the key things that we did with our community is the way that engagement happens is that we have courses okay and courses still are the fundamental part of it training courses like you could watch me talk about how I make emails whatever and then after the end you can either post your email on that post and I'll help punch it up as well as a ERS or you can just ask a question and I'll respond right there and that's how we keep membership like engagement alive rather than like just asking questions every week

44:08because questions get old really fast yeah and so a lot of a lot of uh communities are like oh here's a place where you can talk about copyrighting and you're like okay like I I just don't understand what like how what's everyone's favorite software it's like the same questions over and over and over and then it's just like engagement Peters out eventually and people get tired of it yeah well yeah 100% uh that's why I'm such a believer in the membership model just like you're overloading with value and it's not it's not just the community piece like people think that Community Empire for example like oh it's another

44:48place on school like how many how how often am I actually going to go and get value from it but guess what our retention rate is for for Community Empire it's insane guess how many people it's it's 80 it's 84% 84% are active which is crazy which we probably should put on the website yeah 84% active are logging in all the time because there's so much value like what other you know the only other place for that is like Instagram and Tik Tok where you're seeing 84% that active what are some other what are three other cool ass facts about about uh the the membership I mean probably like

45:45Collective you know cash flow of let's just say $100 million a year or $200 million a year or probably more probably a billion at this point like that's that's huge

46:04just try to figure out one way to like write it in one sentence there we go yeah I mean that's that that's kind of cool to see over here I don't think you need it right here but the point is like somewhere on the page there could be some like little things like Collective cash flow of a billion dollars you're like oh so there's like big time people in here right so that's helpful to know yeah I like that yeah this is I mean this is pretty cool overall I think it's a pretty good page it could have a little something extra to it what what is your thought I'm just

46:35asking you Greg like what what do you think of showing people what's going on inside of the community like giving a little preview or something like that what's your thought process on that um I think uh I think we should do it I don't know why we wouldn't do it because like there's you know I'm just opening it up right now there's so much interesting stuff like it sells itself it's it's kind of like what we talked about before with design scientist um the post cell itself so why wouldn't we here yeah I think so too I feel like most communities like don't share that stuff I think e-commerce fuel um is one

47:17like the only one I've seen that actually shares like some like what's behind the scenes cuz I've been in these membership groups before that I've bought and I remember like they they they don't show me what the hell's inside I'm just like like what are you even like running this on I think most people don't care is what I found like just through surveys like they don't so long as they get what's promised on the page like they don't care the delivery method whereas I actually care like what platform is it on and stuff I don't want it to be like some harded platform um I

47:45did a little thing where I put on my sales page a Community Feed like a live Community Feed and I'm not sure if it helps or not but I think it's helpful and we used to have a lot more but it's just on mobile it was just massive so it actually shows like a live feed and if if someone actually posts right now it'll like show up on here so it's just embedded in the page how do you feel about confidentiality in that case well the thing is I think it goes away quick so if you check in like an hour this will all be different it's

48:15just gone um so it doesn't really index on Google or anything and then the other thing is it's just the headlines it's not showing what they're talking about and so I have ever got any complaints or like concerns about it because it's it's on there for a brief amount of time then it goes away so we're not showing everyone everything uh it's just a little bit and even um even get oh man I can't show you my full screen but um I'm gonna pull this up real quick uh on the side on the sidebar whenever I whenever someone's a guest they see this they they see like a live feed a live

48:59updated feed and when they click that it shows them an error it's like oh you got to be a member and I can't prove it with numbers but I think it gives people fomo and they want to join because because they want to see like like someone's here's my autoresponder what do you think and then there's like 14 replies to it and they're like ah like I would love to like learn from that right I I actually just noticed one of the one of the people on that feed is a community Empire member um so that's also interesting which is which is uh you might see a friend in there and

49:35you're be like oh I didn't realize that you know Amit is in there I'm definitely going to join so you know who does we actually we have a directory but we don't publish it um I just don't want to put everyone's name on there because I think part of it is confidentiality but I think small bets uh does a cool job at this where they put all the members and and by the way this is lifetime membership that they're selling so it's a little bit different so they have a large number of members but they have a directory and you can see everyone who's joined and when and I personally find

50:06this very compelling I don't I don't think I would ever put this on my own Community but I do find it compelling that you can see who joined and like check out their ex so I could just like who's George and like look at his ex and be like oh he does this and I've like kind of snooped on this before and I thought that was kind of a cool thing I like I said I don't think I would do it would you put something like this up for free for everyone to see I wouldn't do it publicly uh we have a private directory and people use it a lot

50:35because all of a sudden like if you see Neville in there it's an excuse for it's like oh Neville is a community Empire member I'm gonna go message him and so I feel like there's that trust if you if you made it public it just you lose a little bit of that trust so um I wouldn't do it publicly but for I get it for small bats I get it for small bats because it's so big it just depends on the nature of your thing because that's like a cheaper product lifetime access the goal is to have like access to a lot of people which by the way when you think about

51:09the lifetime access thing what's your thoughts on it I know my thoughts I mean we wouldn't start a community like for example Community Empire we have like one of the top Community managers in the business running it and people love him um his name is Patrick and um if small bets is doing a community like I I do they have a Community Feed I think they do right um I don't know if they do I don't I don't I have not seen a feed I think I think they have a chat and it goes into campfire which I believe is part of Discord or something yeah I mean I think

51:49that there's there's room for this which is Lifetime but no Community I think the mistake uh people make is they open up a feed and then all of a sudden someone might Poison the Well or too much promotion or you you know there's so many ways that a community could go wrong um but I think it you know small bets is a huge I mean I'm not on the product but I think from what I hear people love it um and it's so cheap right um so I think it's like 180 bucks or something yeah so it's just like it's a different offer I I so how do I

52:30feel about lifetime I see I think that there's opportunity to do it just don't open up a community yeah I I used to do lifetime like when I sold courses and the problem is like things happen so let's say I'm talking about emails and like now convert kit is out compared to when I first made the videos and there's a whole different software I use and now you know with AI things are very different I'd have to re-record videos and trainings and update things all the time for someone who paid me $300 s years ago and that's just not like the greatest business model in the world to

53:03me and so and then also inside of our community we actually rewrite people's copy and so if I had a person who paid $300 seven years ago I have like professional writers in there that I have to pay I have a staff I have like development costs to maintain a community like this and so it's just it's just not possible to give people really really good service and if we had all like I don't know like what 15,000 people or something that have been through in the the previous years that would be in a tremendous amount of like people requiring copy like how do I update this entire autoresponder there'd

53:34be no way we could service that um so we have to charge a membership and some people don't like that but I think people are pretty used to it now but I think membership like a recurring membership is the way to go and some people will use it for only a few months some people will use it forever and I think that's the way we've moved a long time ago and I've seen a lot more course creators do that by the way you want to know know my here's my thoughts on how course creators go you start with one course right you build an audience so

54:01let's say like you in the early days you build an X audience and you have 20,000 followers and everyone's craving for someone something for you to sell you make a course it does really well so you go hey that was kind of cool so then you make another course and then you make another course now you got three courses and now people are confused as to what you do it's like you got community Empire Compu Community this and community that and they're like which one do I buy so then eventually you say I'm going to bundle them together for one big price so that's the next step

54:28and then what happens is people say like well can I just get that one or this is too expensive so then you say I'm going to bundle it together for $97 a month and that's where everyone ends up landing on like the membership model like here's all my crap you get access to it for like a monthly price or one big price per year so I have seen that's where everything goes and I have seen course every course like add some sort of membership with varying levels of success it's very difficult to keep a membership going and keeping people engaged for a long period of time so

54:57anyways kind of a random rant Neville this is this is why I called you this is this is exactly why I called you this is this is exactly what I needed and I'm happy we went through these two examples because on the design scientist side it's it's really for anyone who wants to build an agency so you basically live cooked how to create copy for an agency and then for the community Empire example ex Le you live cooked how do you how do you write copy that sells for an info product a digital product the membership business so thank you thanks man thanks for having me on it's an honor

55:40appreciate it where could people get to know you better you get a copyrighting course.com um it'll well I'm logged in right now but it'll show you a little newsletter sign up that's probably the number one best place I'm also on X at SL neved first three letters of my first name and last name neved so I'm over there I also got a YouTube channel called YouTube copyrighting the old spelling with K's so that's kind of fun and I interview a lot of people over there I've done a lot of previous trainings but recently I've been doing more long form interviews and then um also on Instagram this this goes

56:17surprisingly well we do all these like short form reels and stuff like that so every day I post one real and uh that's a pretty fun way for people to follow as well so copyrighting course.com or Neville madora and all the socials dude I didn't know you're I didn't know you're so busy like those that's a lot of uh you're creating content I guess so I mean it's I guess I guess I got a system down to where it doesn't seem like that crazy but yeah when you look at it and you're just like we're on Tik Tok Instagram Facebook LinkedIn that it's yeah I have an agency

56:45that splits all the stuff up into shorts and then posts it um but yes pulling stuff getting the long form stuff is the hardest part so totally I record a lot of long form with the intention of cutting it up into short form also just doing like this it's kind of like I selfishly want to ask people cool questions um and get their ideas on it and since there's a camera in their face I feel like they answer better and uh and then they get some promotion I get what I want out of it the audience hopefully gets to come and play along too so it's pretty

57:16fun 100% all right my man I'll catch you later thanks man appreciate it have a good one everyone bye later [Music] down baby