How to Expand Local SEO Into New Cities (Without Getting Penalized by Google)

0:00Darren Shaw, you are one of the top people in local search engine optimization. This is your second time on the show. We had a phenomenal first episode. Um, you are the founder of White Spark, which is local search engine optimization tools and an agency. And again, like you are a local SEO mastermind. So, what we're talking about

0:21today is is well, thanks for coming on. um is how to expand local service area pages and especially if you want to expand into a location that's really far away, let's say across the country, what is the way to do that? Yeah. Which which one you want to hit first? You want to hit like expand your current radius across one location? What do you

0:46want to do first? I think let's actually talk about locations that are really far away. Okay, locations that are really far away. You absolutely well if you want to rank in the local pack or maps results and it's really far away. There's only one way on earth to do it. You must open a new location. Like you're too far away, you can forget it. Your single location, even if you're like in a in another city, it's not even that far away. It's not like on the other side of the country. It's just like you currently are a plumber. You work in a suburb of Denver. So, you work in

1:22Aurora, Colorado. That's that's where you registered your business. You live there. You you operate in Aurora, Colorado. You're like, I really want to rank in Denver. Forget it. Just give up. [laughter] It's not possible, man. You must open a new location in Denver because of the city barrier. So, Google will, you know, I'm looking for plumbers in in Denver. Why would Google return a guy that's in Aurora? Well, you would think they would because you set the service areas, but

1:50that's actually a really great topic. Service areas in Google do not impact your rankings. This is so annoying. They should you like why did Google give you that field if it doesn't have any if you're like, "Hey, yeah, I service this whole area. So, can you please make my business profile appear in the results in those

2:10areas?" And Google's like, "No, sorry." So, like, why do they give you that? They give you that field because it uh it draws it just shows customers where you're willing to travel to, but it does not factor into the local algorithm. So, you're you're want to rank in a far away place, you got to open a new location. So, if you're further than like 20 miles, like that's where you want to be ranking. And certainly a lot of service area businesses will happily travel 30 40 up to up to 60 miles to get a job. Then it's just almost impossible. You just got to there is there is a way have be

2:53in some weird industry that has no competition. Then you can expand your radius. Then you can actually have a big radius because there's nobody else. Like you're just kind of on your own. So that's that's one way. But that doesn't really apply to most businesses. How about um how about if it's actual pages on your site? So you're not Yeah, that's that's really I think there's a lot of people who are confused about this

3:16specifically. There are and so that is something. Yes, you let's say you are a I like this Aurora Denver example. So you are a plumber in Aurora, Colorado. You want to rank in Denver. So you make a page on your site called Denver plumbers, Denver drain cleaning. You make a whole like areas we serve. you make like a like a whole subsection of your website about Denver. Yes, sure. It helps you rank in

3:42your organic results. You will you will rank in the organic results like that. Sure, why not? Yeah, there's just a page on the internet, right? So you have the ability for those pages to rank, but they're buried under the ads and then the more ads and then there's another set of ads and then there's the local pack. And then if someone's finger is strong enough to scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, they might see what are called the localized organic results. And these are the blue links that live underneath the pack. And yes, you could have your page ranking there. Now, what about large language

4:21models? Chpt, Gemini. Those pages are great. So, you could actually start getting references and and leads from those pages. So, yes, yes, yes, yes. But we're talking about local search. And so, when we talk about local search, we're talking about the local packet maps. But yes, 100% you can make those pages on your site. And uh yeah, why don't we talk about how to make those

4:43pages? Talk about how to make those pages. Yeah. What What makes a good page? Yeah. So, this method of marketing is so effective, I had to make sure it wasn't against Google's rules before I kept doing it. It's a form of SEO I call compact keywords. Whereas most SEO focuses on putting up articles to answer questions, how, what, when, compact keywords focuses on putting up dozens of pages that sell to searchers who are actually looking to buy. These pages rank on Google and convert so much better than normal that when I discovered this years ago, I couldn't believe this was allowed. It's less work, too. The average compact keywords

5:20page is only 415 words. Compact Keywords is a 13-hour deep course on getting sales with SEO. A customer recently said, "Each lesson is dense with information. You're giving years worth of experience boiled down into 15 to 30 minute lessons with no filler or fluff. I feel like I'm gaining a new superpower. Compact Keywords is about setting up an SEO funnel that brings you sales for years and years and years. It works with AI. It's less work than traditional SEO and it makes way more money. You can get it now at

5:55compactkeywords.com. Back to the podcast. You are a plumber in Aurora. You want to rank in Denver. You don't want to go to the trouble of going and creating a new location in Denver and and verifying it on Google and building out citations. That is the best move. Hands down, if you can afford the new office location, you can do it. And let let's sidebar,

6:19how do you get a cheap office location? So, the way you get a cheap office location is not a PO box. That's against Google's guidelines. You'll you'll have a major target on your back. Uh not a virtual office. Again, problematic against Google's guidelines. Uh co-working space is this gray area. It's like, oh, well, I'll just use a

6:38co-working like a wei work, right? That's also a little dangerous. You could get away with a a co-working if you have a dedicated lease and a and a signage within there. It's like I am renting this office. It's mine in this co-working space. That's fineish, but again, because it's in the co-working area, it's it's looked at very suspiciously by Google. So, your very best move is to get what I call a sub lease. I guess what the the world calls a sub lease. It's not me. I didn't coin this. So, a sub lease is someone's already got office space. They have a very expensive rent. And they are like,

7:15"We want to offset some of these costs. We're going to rent you a room in our office that we are leasing." So, rather than $5,000 a month, your office then now becomes $400 a month because you're getting a small little room in there. If you go on the internet and you look up office space, you're going to get all these office uh websites and you will not find these there. You find them on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace. So, that's where you go to find the subleasases. It' be like office subleas. It's another word for it. just I don't know, ask your your favorite uh chat what to call this thing and it'll

7:56give you advice on how to find these sub leases. And so that's what you would do if you were going to open a location in Denver proper. You would get a sub lease, you would get signage. So signage for a sub lease is your name should be ideally on the outside of the building and on so then when you go to the office, your name should be on a slap up a piece of paper just like Bob's plumbing on the side of the main office door and then when you go inside you have your own door in the office again. Bob's plumbing on the door. So some kind of signage and there

8:32you go. That will help you get an actual real physical location which is another topic. You should ask me the question hiding your address versus not hiding your address. But yeah, is that Now I got to ask you now I got to ask you that. I feel like I'm going all over the place here though because we didn't

8:49get we didn't really finish the pages. No. And actually, I had a Okay, so I I I have another question. By the way, I want to say like when you when you're when you speak, I remember why I loved our first episode so much because every sentence that you give is a specific piece of easily understood, tangible

9:08advice. And I I love it. It's so clear. Darren, I I I really appreciate you have I really appreciate having you on the show. Um, have you encountered issues of people trying to rank service area pages very far away, but they don't have the topical authority for that location. Maybe Google just sees them as this one location because they've done marketing around this one location and now they're trying to expand into they're trying to do pages in normal pages in other locations, but Google's like we don't really see you as having like topical

9:41authority in that location. Yeah, 100%. Actually, you see this all the time with even like with you, you've done the work. You've created a whole new office. You have a you have a verified Google business profile in Denver with your uh with your address showing like dream scenario, right? You did it. Yes. Great. Now I'm going to rank number one. So you can you see this happen all the time with like law firms when they open up locations around the whole state. Um and they really do service those locations. They have people staffed in those offices. But the main location that they started 20 years ago in their main area that's where you

10:18know speaking of your topical authority and so they they just dominate in that area and they can't break into the other area and that is a very true thing that is very challenging and it's because Google's Google Google's knowledge graph everything Google knows about you is anchored to Aurora Colorado and so now it's like oh yeah also yeah we opened a new location in Colorado Springs it's a slot Oh, it's going to take a long time

10:43for you to build up Colorado Springs. And so, that's a real challenge for uh businesses. And to your question, it is true. It is. It is hard. And so, how do you do it? Well, these pages are great. You're going to build these very detailed. You're going to build them out very nicely. Uh these service area pages. We have a article on the Whitespark blog. We have I think a ultimate guide to building these service area pages. So you can look that up. You can go to whitespark.ca and click the guide section in our resources. And in there there's a guide to how to like make the ultimate service

11:22area pages, right? Um so those are you know foundational required you must do it. There are other things though that we could talk about which are offsite right. So, citations uh so mentions and links absolutely that's how Google works. That's also how LLMs work. They look for references for you. So, basically in those areas, we'll go back to the Aurora Denver example. You need references within that city. So, you need links. You need like So, sponsorship links are great. I'll give you a tip. I got all the tips. I'll give you a tip for how to find sponsorship links. So, uh, you do a search on Google for your city name. So,

12:12Denver space in title or you could use in URL. I actually kind of like in URL better. You go in URL colon sponsors. So, what that's going to surface in the organic results and actually then when you run that, hit the link at the top that says web. And then you just get a nice page. And then you can even go and edit your URL and go like numbum equals 100. uh put a parameter num and say you got a 100 pages in Denver that have sponsors in the URL. So these are all pages

12:41Google deprecated num num equals 100. Okay, do it on Yahoo then which is true. Yahoo [laughter] is actually kind of amazing. Yahoo's index is like they never remove from the index as opposed to Google. And so Yahoo's index is a great place to go to search for this kind of thing. So anyways, in in URL sponsors and you will find all of these pages. You don't have to put the number equals on. You just click next next. And these are all organizations that will happily take your money. We'd be like, "Yes, give us give us 500 bucks. We'll give you a link on our

13:20website." And then so in the language you're talking about this new location. Yes. So, you want it to be like if you can when you're getting these links like Denver plumbers as the anchor text and it goes to your website and it's from a Denver organization. It's really more about the you usually can't manipulate the anchor text. If you could get a blurb that goes with it, then that's helpful. So, like a nice little chunk of text about your business. It' be like Bob's Plumbing is a Denver plumbing company servicing the whole region, right? So, those are the kinds of things that you could do. So you want to use

13:54that. That's actually called a semantic triple subject predicate object. Bob's plumbing is a Denver plumbing company. Say that on the internet all over the place if you want to rank in Denver. So that helps peel helps the engines understand what your business is, who you are, what you do, what services. Den Bob's Plumbing provides drain cleaning

14:22services in Denver. Have you um have you seen people making pillar pages for different locations so they can have individual services for each uh location? Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have. And so yeah, there's it's like silos, right? Content silos. So let's say I'm in Aurora. My website's got a services section and every one of those pages, drain cleaning, hot water tank installation, hot water tank repair, you know, u pipe replacement, all of these services, they're currently focused on Aurora because I built my website 10 years ago, right now I'm like, I got to break into Denver. So I start making these pillar. So I'll be

15:03like locations and then you know or you what you do is you have this you have services and it's a drop down that has Aurora and Denver and then when I click Denver submen of all the drain cleaning pages but each one of those pages is hyperfocused on Denver not Aurora. So it is valuable to do those pages. Uh in the world of AI it's not hard to rework those pages. So like you take your content from your Aurora page, rework it. So it's not it's not a copy paste whether you just change the the name, you just kind of rework each paragraph, uh rebuild it. Ideally, you will do that

15:41in the business owner's voice and you can get that through transcript. So you just ask the business owner questions about each section and they will answer it because business owners love to talk about their business. And then they will then you transcribe that. That's the very best way to get real authentic content that doesn't come across as AI

16:03generated. Yeah. And and you don't want it to be like doorway pages where everything is just Yeah. And actually the cool thing about pillar pages with different locations is it makes it a lot easier to build topical authority for that location. Because now when you're doing link building and you're saying, you know, we exist in this new city, you send it to the pillar page and then that spreads the link equity across all the uh all the Yeah. all the service area

16:27pages within that that location. Yeah, it's just like it's if you think about it, it's pretty it all makes sense. I want to establish my presence in Denver. Ideally, I will open a new location. If I don't, at least I've got these pages. So, you're going to build out a whole page structure on your website. Then you're going to try and get links from Denver related websites to those pages and that will you know with internal linking uh trickle down to all the other service pages that are in Denver. Um and then there's another big one which is reviews. So if you can get reviews from people located in those

17:04areas, you service those areas. I mean, like, okay, you're in Aurora and you hit the jackpot. You got a job in Denver. That is a review. You must hound. You must hound that person to leave you a review. And ideally, they will say words like, you know, Denver or I had them come out to my home in Denver to leave a review uh to to get my drains cleaned, right? That kind of thing is really really valuable. So if you can get reviews from people located in those areas, Google tracks every movement that we ever make, all of us. And so Google knows that you're located in that area

17:40and that review coming from that person is helpful. Uh speculatively, no one's ever proved that, but we believe that Google does look at those signals. Um so getting reviews from those areas is another thing that becomes really valuable and especially getting keywords in reviews. I just want to quickly mention another local search myth. The first myth I mentioned earlier was that the service areas impact ranking. They don't. And then the second myth is that people think that if you leave a review someone you get a review from someone and they oh dang they didn't say my favorite keywords. So then when you reply to the review you say hey yeah

18:20thanks for using our drain cleaning services in Denver. So, Google doesn't use the owner response in the local search algorithm at all. So, putting keywords in your owner responses has no impact on ranking. So, don't bother. Just just respond to that person like you're a human, not an SEO. And so, that would that's just one thing worth mentioning. But getting reviews from out from the area. So, you get so you got the nice pages. Ideally, you have an office and an actual Google business profile. That's the dream. But if you don't have that, then you got the pages, you got links and mentions. So, you're looking for localized citations like

18:58chambers of commerce, uh, business organization, meetup groups. If you're just trying to find localized links in those areas, getting those to your hub pages, your Denver hub pages, and then getting reviews from those areas, those are the key things that you can do. Yeah. Yeah. And you said something actually, this is I don't know if you've seen me talking about this like non-stop, but I basically I bring it up on on so many episodes and it it was something it stuck with me the most out of everything that you said in our first episode, which was I don't know, I think it was like an hour and a half or two

19:30hours, our first episode, but this was the thing that really stuck with me the most, which was whenever you update your Google business profile, it goes and crawls your entire site and you see it in the log files. Yeah, crawls the whole damn thing. That That's That was your language verbatim. And I Yeah, I don't know if it's true anymore. That was likeing eight years ago when I tested that. But it is so cool to see

19:54it. Yeah. So, that's a great point. Okay, you just made all these new pages on your website. You want to connect those pages to your existing Google business profile. How do you do it? Just go and make an edit to your Google business profile. Now, be careful. There are what we call the sensitive fields on your Google business profile. If you edit the address or phone number, those are like major reverification fields. Don't touch

20:19those. Categories can be a little sensitive. So, if you change your primary category, that can sometimes trigger like, hey, are you actually a towing company because you were a plumber before? Can you reverify? So, primary category is a little sensitive. Additionals are usually fine. Uh name is usually fine. Actually, Google doesn't seem to give two craps about the the name. Even keyword stuffing. It is hard to report someone for keyword stuffing in the business name. There were egregious cases where the name was just like absolutely stuffed with keywords, like one of those like ones that you would laugh at cuz it's so bad. Multiple people reporting that to Google and

21:00Google saying, "We don't see a problem." Like, no joke. Keywords in the business name Google doesn't seem to care too much about. So anyways, I have a question. Do you do you find that keywords in the business name make a difference though in terms of conversions with people? Like, oh, this sounds like a scammy company cuz like

21:19Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it's it's not it's not like a real and now I'm not saying, you know, if you're like a bicycle repair shop, you call it Joe's Bicycle Repair. That's fine. That's But but if you call it just like Bicycle Repair Shop Brooklyn, New York, you know,

21:35near me. Yeah. Yeah. You call it you call it that. Is that going to is actually going to hurt conversions? I don't know if there's any studies on that. I would say no. Branding is important. I think branding is I personally I think branding is important. I would say that you got the brand with

21:54Joe's bike repair shop. So it's there. Now you want to get the SEO benefits of the other stuff. And you I feel like you don't really hurt yourself too much. So, if you're Joe's Bike Repair Shop near me in Brooklyn offering tuneups, like [laughter] I don't know, like you're really you're really going with it with the keywords there. I don't actually think it hurts you. I think you might be right cuz you're going to be like, "Well, I need a tuneup." I

22:21mean, obviously I'm going to go here. It's kind of it's kind of like when people talk about optimizing title tags and metad descriptions, it's like you want those keywords in there because when people see it, they're like, "Oh, it's for me. Tuneups. Perfect. That's what I'm looking for." Yeah. So, I actually I would say I think it's it benefits you from both a ranking and

22:39a conversion perspective. And as I said earlier, Google doesn't give two crap. So, here I am telling you to spam your your business name. I'm going to tell you something nuts right now. Oh my gosh. You ready to hear? I don't know if I am, but I'm I'm I'm like uh holding on my desk. Here we go. This is something I just recently learned about and I was like, "Oh my god, this is insane." So basically, you can sue Google. So let me let me take a step [laughter] back. So

23:10are you trying to give me deplatform? Darren, what are you doing? Let me take a step back. So we're talking about stuffing keywords in the business name, right? So one of the tactics that SEO agencies do is they report other businesses that are stuffing keywords in the business name. So it's like, you cheaters, I'm going to report you. So, I go to Google and I suggest an edit and I say that's not their real business name. Their real business name is Joe's Bike Repair and all that other stuff they put in their business name, that's not in there. So, what I do is I suggest an edit. I take

23:44all that out. I hit save. Google usually accepts that save. And so, now they no longer rank for tuneups and they're like, "Curses you. Someone on the internet ruined my business name and now I'm losing business. You can find out who was messing with your profile. This is the I'm like I had what? You can sue Google. There's there are people out there that specialize in this kind of a lawsuit. You file a subpoena like a lawsuit a subpoena to Google a request for information. Tell me, give me a list of all the people that were editing my Google business profile. And you're like, and Google through the laws of the

24:28United States is required to give you this. So, it's insane that you can now get a list of all the emails and their IPs of who has been messing with your profile. And then, I don't know what do you do with that data if you have it. You could potentially sue the people that were editing your business name. This flips the concept of spam fighting on its head. It becomes dangerous. like you want to put yourself liable because you are hurting someone's business by taking keywords out of their business name even when Google doesn't

24:58really seem to care too much about it. That's this is a new revelation for me that I'm like holy crap. Well, honestly, at my agency, we have stopped spam fighting because of this. There is a way if you want to keep trying to report these cheaters that are stuff in their business name, there is a way. You have

25:15to use what's called the redressle form. So just look it up like Google business profiles redressal form you can submit them through there and then I think you are safer but it's suggest and edit which is a it's a dangerous one for changing business name so sidebar but this is new information that I'm like wow I didn't know that was a thing and so now I know I didn't know that was a thing either yeah it's new that's that's crazy that's that's good though it's good to know it's good to know and actually it does make you it should make you hesitate if you're going to suggest

25:48an edit on someone else's profile, particularly the law firms. Be careful about those law firms. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You So, you said there was something that I that I should ask you about. Was it changing your address? Was that or changing your name, changing your signature? I'm trying to remember. You don't remember? It was It was changing something. You're like, "Oh, you should ask me about this." And then and then I'm like And then then you're like, "Oh, but we're going too far off

26:16topic." Dang it. I wish I could remember. I can't remember. [laughter] Somebody in the comments, leave a comment, remind us what it was, and I will answer it on in the comments. Anyway, this was this was great though. Um, this was a very good discussion of uh expanding local service area pages and uh I think so too. Yeah, I think we covered everything really. It's like that's what it comes down to. Get the sub lease if you can, get a new actual location, your topical authorities is a challenge. I think we talked about how to expand that and and do all the things. I probably missed a couple things that you could do

26:49that might help. You know, we didn't talk about things like schema, but that's I'm a little on the fence about that. Well, actually, oh my. So, so, um, Jay Hundley, you spoke to him. I don't know if you saw the episode, uh, that Jay Hundley and David Quaid and I did called Schema is worthless. Like, or useless.

27:06It's crazy. Oh, I didn't. I now I want to watch it. And and so, very interestingly, um, Jay Conundley is doing a study on this and he he told me. Yeah. So, he tagged he probably tagged you, too. He tagged all these people, but Joy, he tagged Joy Hawkins and Joy Hawkins was like, "Yeah," she even left in a comment. She said, "We haven't seen

27:25much of a difference." And but she's talking about So Joy lives in a very local search world. We're talking about ranking in local packs and ranking in uh maps. So very like focused on local results. And oh, we added schema. It did not impact that. Cool. I I would agree with her. In a world of large language models though, that's the question and organic results, LLM based results. I think that there's some schema benefits in that, but it's so it's pure speculation. No one's really I've never seen like anyone prove it prove some benefit of schema. So that's why I'm I'm on the fence about it. And

28:04I'm very interested in uh Jake's study and uh he sent me the documents. I'll give it a review and see if I have any suggestions. But yeah, I think it's great. Jake did such a good job on the geotagging study that I just have real confidence in him to to do a great job on this schema study. So excited to see what he comes

28:22up with. Yeah, he's very thorough. Yeah. Yeah. He's very thorough. And it's just um I don't know personally like I don't like that it's the type of thing where it to me it seems like the benefits are are very negligible and it's it's agencies charge a lot and use it to confuse clients in into like whereas like people like us people like you we we try to make search engine optimization easily understood so

28:54it feels like you can do it too, Right. But 100% agencies will use this and that's what they also use things like geotagging photos which is just it sounds amazing. It's like you are what kind of genius are you? You put the you put the location in the photos. Wow, you're a genius, right? [laughter] That's actually a myth. It doesn't impact rankings. But same thing with schema. It sounds all technical. Ah, we got some hidden code on the page. We are

29:20masters of the hidden code on the page. And so it sounds like a big deal. But I do think I actually saw so if for me like Dan Petravich is an absolute genius. Yeah, he's great. And so he he did do a post not too long ago where he's like I was wrong. The LMS are someone challenged him on that. Someone challenged him on so he he actually updated that post and he's like yeah he he said somebody challenged me on this and made a very good point so

29:47I'm not sure anymore. I know. No one's sure. No one knows. That's what I'm saying. I know. We're all We're trying to figure out. We'll let you know on a podcast episode once Jake has done his study and we have some solid data on this. Darren, thank you again for coming on the show. You are just one of my favorite people in the industry. You really I can't tell you how much I appreciate you and everything that you

30:08do and everything that you share. Thanks for having me. Let me plug our awesome software. We have a new uh White Spark local ranking grid software. If you are using some other ranking grid software, you should check ours out because damn is it good. It is like the most beautiful, easy to use, incredible competitive analysis in it. That tool, I am so proud of our team and it's it's like it's the best on the market. Just check it out. There's a free trial, no credit card. Just try it and see if you like it. If you want to switch, we'll do all the work for you. It's freaking

30:39great. So, anyways, what was it like what was it like building it? Why why do you like it so much? It took us like a year to build it. And the thing I like about it is we built it to solve the bad feelings we have using everyone else's software. We [laughter] use everyone else's software. It's so clunky and awkward and ugly. And it's like, why can't you guys make something nice and something good that's easy to use? It's delightful to use. And so that was the thing. It's like it kind of does the same thing as all the others do, but you might as well use the one. It's

31:09price is the same. Like we're we're competitively priced with everyone else, but you might as well use the one that looks great. Hey, it makes your reports look good. We have a lot of people using it for their agency sales side of things. Like they'll go to conferences and then they show people, oh, here's how you rank on the grid, but they've specifically switched us cuz it looks so

31:25great. And so those are the when I was when I was at Densou, it was like I when I got there, I couldn't believe how much time we were focusing on making things look nice. It's critical. Yeah, we're all about that at Weiss Park. We're like pretty obsessed with it. And I think it does set us apart from a lot of the other

31:45tool providers. Yeah. And you're very active posting. I'm pretty active. That's that's my job. All over the place. All over the place. Yeah. I can't keep up with you though, man. You are just like a machine. You're [laughter] you're all over every day posing multiple times. Yeah. Well, I mean, so are you. You you're you're you put up great stuff on IG, on LinkedIn,

32:05on threads. Um are there any other ch channels that you're active on? Oh, Facebook. Facebook. So LinkedIn is my biggest then Facebook. I'm on the Tik Tok. YouTube is huge, right? YouTube shorts YouTube and you have your own podcast or or no have a podcast. I run a podcast with Claire Carile which is just so fun to do and we talk about the latest news in

32:28local search. So yeah, check that out. The Whitespark Local Update. Fantastic podcast. Um and it's just it's fun. It's fun to listen to and you get to catch up on like news like I'll talk about these kind some of the things I mentioned on this call. Yeah. Darren, thank you again for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. It was fun. This is episode 930 of the Edward Show. 930 days in a row doing this show. I was telling Darren before the show that I am coming down with a cold. I feel terrible. You can't tell cuz I'm like

32:56laughing and like, "Let's go, Darren. Darren's the best. This is great. I'm coming down cold. I do this show every day, no matter what." And so to everybody who watched this on YouTube, thank you so much for watching. If you listened on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, thank you so much for listening and I

33:16will talk to you again tomorrow.