How to Write SaaS Copy That Actually Converts: Using Emotion to Drive Trials, Revenue & Retention

0:00I realized I never said what I did yesterday. So, if you're new here and you don't know me, lucky you. Also, I'm a copywriter. So, that this talk will be about copy. That may be a surprise some of you. And it's called ew feelings because we got to feel our feelings and talk about feelings. And so, uh over the next who knows how long because I haven't practiced this. uh however many minutes it takes. We will talk about six feelings that you should be tapping into in your copy. Uh we will talk about where in the funnel and where in your

0:35copy assets those feelings should live. And we'll talk about what those feelings actually look like in the specific words and phrases uh that you can use. And all of this all of this playing on emotion is building the familiarity and trust. You've heard no like trust gets people to buy. You've heard people buy from people. That's what we're trying to do. And in the age of AI where Claude and ChatgPT are like pretending to have feelings and like very convincing but there's no humanity behind them. I think that humanity is the most important

1:08part. Are we on board? Yes. Or are you like why must we talk about feelings? I just want to do beep boops on my computer. Right. Um because whether you are at 1K uh MR or you're at a million, the people who are deciding to buy your SAS have feelings, right? Everybody laughs, everybody cries, everybody poops, and the people who poop are making decisions

1:35about what software to buy. We left the door open, so now is a good time to leave if you want. Um but my customers are B2B. Again, this I know what you're going to say. My customers are B2B. They just want the facts, ma'am, please. Uh, untrue. Are they not flesh? If you cut them, do they not bleed? If you tickle them, do they

1:55not elmo? That one was for me. I have some quick disclaimers. Obviously, uh, these phrases, these guidelines, uh, they are not set in stone, much like my torso. They're malleable, they're soft, they're gentle. You can use any feelings in your copy wherever you want. Um, and they're not all of the emotions that you can tap into with copy, right? Has anyone ever been to therapy and been given a feelings wheel? No one's brave enough to raise their hand or no one

2:26goes to therapy. Thank you, sir. Enlightened mind over there. Uh, there's a lot of feelings, right? These are not all of them. Um, there are so many feelings. I know because I have felt them all. I am a champion crier. Here is me, age 10. Uh, I was crying during a horseback ride. Mom thought it was a great time to take a picture. Years later, I was like, "Why did you take this picture?" I was so upset. She's like, "Really? I thought you looked nice." Um, I was crying because that [ __ ] ran under a tree and bonked me and it was very scary and

2:58I was wearing a helmet, but a helmet does not protect you from betrayal. Never trust a horse. Anyway, uh, I'm well known for crying. My best friend sent me this text. I believe that's what the kids say. Is reading me for filth. I heard there were Jenzers here. Where are you? That was my one appeal to you. Okay. Um, and here, just before we get into it, so you know, things that have made me cry just this week. A short

3:24list. My boyfriend was coming back in eight hours. Uh, also I fell off my bike a whole bunch and I will continue to do that. Um, Sherry said yesterday like we're all going to die and that is basically how I live my life. That is how I write copy. like gun to the head. Why should we make someone care? Because they have limited time and we're all going to die and it's uh a super intense way to be at cocktail parties. I do not recommend it. Um we're going to start with a pop quiz. Uh I'm going to show you two versions of a landing page. And actually, uh I stole a

4:00lot of my examples from the microcon feedback request channel. If you see your copy in here, sorry, and you're welcome. So, okay, here is version one. If you can't read it, it says, "Ask AI about your podcasts. Get instant insights from your podcast library using AI powered semantic search. Ask questions, explore topics, and discover connections across episodes." That's version one. Version two, unlock the hidden knowledge in your podcasts. Uh, with product names, AI powered semantic search, you can connect the dots between episodes, uncover gems you might have missed, and find answers to questions you weren't even asking yet. Now your episode backlog talks back. Which of

4:41these makes you feel more feelings? One. Anyone for one? Oh, we all know what the correct answer is. Good job. Uh, it's two, right? Yeah. Makes you feel what? Curious. I can't hear you. Yeah, that whatever he said. Sorry, Adrian. YOLO. Excited. Great. Perfect. Cool. Okay. And another quick quiz for you. Uh here is Monday CRM. Uh option one, track

5:19deals through the pipeline. Option two, always know where every deal stands. Do we feel more feelings with option one or option two? Two. Right. That's actually the real ad. I screen capped it and then I made a version that was worse. You're welcome. Monday, call me. Um, okay, cool. So, I'm glad I got you on board. I don't want you to make me cry again. All right. She's been through enough. So, sorry, girly. Um, if you're not on board with bringing emotion into your copy, do it for her. Cool. First feeling we're going to talk about frustration, pain, fear, anger, all the bad stuff. I'm calling it frustration

6:06because that's sort of like the inciting incident uh that people are feeling when they go looking for a solution, right? Um and one thing that I see constantly as SAS businesses go up market is they take all of the fear and pain out of their copy. Probably because the seauite or the board or whoever is like we don't want to make people feel bad, right? Uh wrong. We need to make people feel bad because nobody takes action if things

6:31are fine. We know this. This is not a new concept, right? Cool. Pain is motivating. Uh in SAS, we talk a lot about painkiller versus vitamin. Everybody wants to build a painkiller product. Nobody wants to build a vitamin. Even if you're building a vitamin, I personally love vitamins. You still use pain to sell them. And for example, here is a vitamin using pain to sell itself. Goodbye bloat. That's a pain. That's frustration, right? That's something your customer doesn't want, even though they're selling a bunch of benefits. Cool. So, where should we be using frustration in the funnel? Uh,

7:05probably in your ads to get attention. Uh, in your social post hooks. People love to see like, oo, a problem, especially if it's a problem they're having. Uh, and you should use it at the tops of your landing pages and your emails, especially if you are working with a colder audience because you have

7:20to show them you understand their pain. So, what does frustration look like in copy? usually like, "Hey, doesn't it suck when or are you sick of don't you hate this?" Powerful emotion words that are like, "Hey, we know what you're talking about." So, here's Bit.ly doing exactly that, aligning themsel with the reader, saying, "We've all been there. Hit send too soon. Shared the wrong link. Notice a typo after you already

7:46went to the printer. We know your pain." They literally like step right up and say, "We know your pain." Um, that's a great thing to do. Use it cautiously. If you've seen my talks in the past, you know that uh using we, our and us too many times leads to what I call the wee wee problem and your your whole site

8:05just full of wee wee. It's not great. No, no laughs at the P. Okay, one guy. Thank you. Thank you for laughing at the PE joke. Um here is my client Mapestry talking about how facilities get fined, right? So you can bring in pain here at the end of the paragraph. uh talking about something we want to avoid by using the software. If you want to see

8:25this whole page, it's very painfocused. It's at retirepreadsheets.com. Just don't judge me on the design. Um here is microconf darling user list. Uh saying email marketing is tough and asking questions to align with the reader. Cool. We're all on board. And if you're still like, I don't want to make people feel bad, you should know that there's a difference between addressing pain in this honest way and the kind of direct response marketing that you're probably thinking of where we are overexaggerating the problem and or we're making people feel bad for something they can't change, right? So they can click a button, put in their

9:04credit card, and solve their problem. Now, uh we're not like you have to go to therapy, lose 100 pounds, seems impossible, seems hard, and you're worse for it. They're not a worse person if they don't make the change, right? Do you you feel the distinction? Thank you for nodding. Um time to reflect. If you are using your homepage as a landing page with which Anthony pointed out yesterday that probably all of us are, right? Unless you are separating people quickly into buckets with more of a splash page, uh you probably have pain somewhere near the top of your page, probably right below your hero section. Um open up your

9:41site and see if and where you're talking about frustration and then ask yourself, can I be a little bit more specific? And am I shortchanging cold audiences depending on where your traffic is coming from? Do people need to know a little bit more uh specificity about the pains that you're helping them solve? Do it. Do it now. What if I don't move

10:06on until I see people open their phones? Uncomfortable laughter. Okay. Um, feeling number two, skepticism. I bet you didn't think I was going to bring up this very specific feeling, right? It's not a feeling that you think of when you think of like mad, sad, happy, right? Uh but it is an important feeling especially if you're writing for more technical audiences, if you're selling to developers, for example. Um and we use skepticism because they're feeling it. And this is again part of the process of meeting your reader where they are. Uh so they're they're feeling it because they're developers, right? They're like,

10:42I don't trust you. I don't believe you. I'm looking for ways to tear you down like right now. Um, does anybody know Adam Du Vander? Adam, are you here? No, Adam's not here this year. Uh, he wrote a great book called Marketing for Developers. Uh, and he says, "With hype comes skepticism, right?" Uh, you need to find ways to

11:04promote your product without promotion. And so, again, moving away from that direct sales kind of spammy like buy now, buy or you're terrible. um and into like, hey, we know you have potential objections. U so anywhere in your copy throughout your funnel that your reader could reasonably say like, sure, yeah, but that's where you bring in a little bit of skepticism, uh in your competitor comparison pages because they're about to choose between your you and your competitor, right? And a little bit of addressing doubt right

11:36there can be the differentiator for you. uh in nurture emails when you're trying to get someone uh to put down their credit card or upgrade because we don't do free trials here, right? Where's Rob? Oh, there. Okay. Shaking his head. No free trials. Okay. And parenthetical aside, one of my favorite uh copy tricks because it cues the eyeball to be like something is happening inside this parenthesis and it's like whispering into your reader's ear like here's another little bit of information you might need. So here's what it looks like. We know, we know you're probably thinking this and hey, you can do this thing that you want

12:14without the thing that you hate or you're trying to escape and you think this thing is going to happen, but actually don't well actually them like use actually sparingly. Um, but it is one of those words that cues the brain to be like something is changing. Uh, so even if is another great one. Um, is

12:33Martin from invoke here? Hey, I stole your site copy. Um, I like this because right on your front page, you are distinguishing yourself from other tools, right? You're actually doing what Anthony talked about yesterday, creating a new category, right? Email marketing for communicators, not just email marketing for marketers. Uh, so an objection that Martin knows people have is that other tools will cut off emails even when they

13:01need to be sent legally, mandatorily. Uh, and invoke does not do that. So, send mandatory emails to everyone, even to contacts who are unsubscribed from optional content. Cool. Um, confer. Let's confer here. No confer. I stole this from the feedback channel. Um, I really like this little bit of skepticism. They're not saying we're the best. They're not saying we're the first. They're not saying we're the only or the best in the world. We're saying the next best thing, which is infinitely more believable than best, right? I love that, especially for

13:37skeptical audiences. Um, here is some copy that I wrote for another client. I'm like hammering y'all over the head with copy examples because most people just want to look at other people's work, right? Um, you take security and compliance seriously. So do we. But what about California? Laws are different in California. Other solutions I've tried didn't work in California. We

13:57know. Looking at you, California. Right. Okay. A little sass. Get it. This part would just throw myself off stage. It's happened before. Um, okay. So, if you have your copy open, your little challenge, your miniature challenge is go to your copy, go to your landing page, look for those phrases like without and even if and parenthetical aides. See if you're addressing the skepticism right there on

14:25the page. It might be in body copy. probably not in headers. We're moving into more positive feelings now. Hooray. Hope. Hope is the idea that things could maybe be different and probably better. Hope floats, right? Hope is the what do they say? Hope is the thing with feathers. People People actually write poetry about hope. Um they do not write poetry

14:49about features. Or maybe they do. I don't know. Is that my next is that my next gig? No. Um okay. So, why do we use hope? We clue people in to the idea that things can change. And we use hope as an on-ramp to excitement. And I will show you what I mean by on-ramp, okay? In a second. Hope

15:09looks like this. Imagine if you could, you'll love, wouldn't it be awesome to be able to do this thing? And you're using hope. See, you're taking a picture. I'll go back. There you go. um you're using hope anywhere you're talking about all the awesome [ __ ] they're going to be able to do with your product. U so body copy, headlines, emails, um definitely in nurture sequences if you're trying to get someone to upgrade uh all of the cool things you'll be able to do. So here is

15:43Turnie. Are you here? Turn. Damn, I would have chose different examples. No, I like this. This is a Microconf community member uh called Turney. run tournaments that players will love. Painting the ideal future, right? It's going to be amazing. Um, here's NOCO, another friend of microconf, Amy Hoy, runs a time tracking tool. Developers will love. We don't we don't know for sure. We

16:09never know what developers will love. They love to hate things, but uh they will hopefully love this tool. So, where in your copy are you trying to paint the picture of the perfect future or maybe not perfect but like better future? Um, what can you realistically point to that could improve? Uh, and just to leave you with the idea that after hammering pain, it's important to balance out with some hope because we don't want to just make people feel so bad that they don't do anything because it can get better. That's what my

16:41therapist tells me. Okay, next excitement. And I'm just like racing through these feelings. Okay, you're probably like, "Hey, what's the difference between excitement and hope?" And to me, hope is before the amazing thing happens. Hope is before they sign up. Hope is before they have their like activation aha moment inside your tool. Uh, and with excitement, the cool thing

17:04is happening now or it just happened. Does that make sense? And we need hope as an on-ramp to excitement. Um, otherwise it looks a little weird and I will show you how to It's like going from zero to 100 and people are like, "Whoa, it's a little much. Tone it down." Feedback that I hear all the time. Um, okay. Why do we use excitement? We get users amped up. Uh, we reaffirm that they've made the right choice after they've just taken an action. Like they signed up for your tool, they're about to get your like onboarding activation flow. They need a little assurance that they're not

17:38wasting their time and money, right? And because if we're not excited, why would they be? It's like it's not fun to buy from a tool that's like, I don't know. I guess you could use it. [ __ ] Sure. Fine. Does anybody have copy like that? Will you admit it? Aha. One brave soul. See

17:58me after class. Um, so where do we use excitement? Uh, again, we're painting a picture of their bright future. Uh, in your nurturing flows, the tops and the bottoms of your landing pages. Because in the middle of your landing pages, you're like, "Let's get into it. Let's get into how much this particular pain sucks and how we solve it with this particular feature or suite of features." Click through to sub landing pages, right? Um, we're celebrating onboarding milestones with them. That's an exciting thing. Anytime you send an email from the founder, we

18:29want to hear excitement about the tool. That's a a super clutch thing to do. By the way, if you're not sending plain text emails from yourself as the founder anywhere in your email flows, you should definitely be doing that. People love that. Um, and in your CTAs, your calls to action should be exciting. So, what does it look like? Finally, now you can do this. And you're about to get this cool thing that you want. Give me this cool thing. Congrats. Make it happen now. And you did it. And these are all like super cheesy, I know, but it's very hard to come up with universally applicable phrases for

19:05everyone in a room. This can change based on what your tool does and what you want them to do, right? And what does excitement not look like in copy? Request a demo. Learn more. I have never in my life wanted to learn more. It's not going to change now. And requesting a demo usually is putting so much friction in between the user and the goal that you want them to accomplish. You think it makes you sound big and cool and important and like like more than one person works at your SAS, but actually it's preventing people from getting to you and I am attacking you personally. Um,

19:45who has requested demo on their site? Brave. Brave. Um, I want to just schedule a demo. Obviously, I want to like, I don't know, self-s serve if you're doing productled growth, but um, if you want me to have a demo, I want to book it. I want to find a time. I also want to know who I'm booking it with and see their face. I want it to feel super friendly and easy. I want it to I want to know how long it's going to take. So, like, book a quick, friendly 15inute demo for me works a lot better than request a

20:19demo. Um, here is the only non-SAS example I have in this talk because I just love this call to action. Uh, joining the conversation in the reader's head. Ooh, that's cute. Smash that button. Zero friction. Right here is an example from sponsor churn key that I put in this morning because I liked it, not because they are sponsoring. Um, improve retention. Now, this is what we call a call to value, not a call to action, right? A call to action is sign up now or start free

20:51trial. It's what they're going to do. This is what they're going to get. Improve retention now. So, if you haven't thought about switching from calls to action uh versus calls to value, that could be something to explore. It's very exciting. Here's Wistia's old tool soapbox. I made my first video. It's a very key onboarding

21:08milestone. And they say, "You did it." Or no, I referred someone who made their video. You did it. They're tracking people all the way through the funnel, like all the referral funnels. my friends are being spied on and reported to me. But I did that feels good. And they had a little gift of the team like

21:23waving and cheering which was very cute. Um here is friend of microconf uh Michael Copper who is the founder of Newsie Proposals. Uh this is after you sign up. He says, "Hey, I'm the founder. I'm so happy you decided to join. I can't wait to help you easily create beautiful proposals in a fraction of the time." Notice how he's reiterating the benefits that I just signed up for, right? Because maybe I'm like, "Ah,

21:47maybe I should have used Panda Docs. Maybe I should have used better proposals. I don't know." He's like, "No, I'm going to help you do what you need to do. I'm excited." Um, here's superhuman. Uh, one thing that I want to point out about excitement is that speed is exciting. Immediately turn an email into an event. I'm like, "Oh, it's right there." Instant

22:12gratification triggered, right? Uh, I will now call out someone maybe. No, actually, it's a couple slides later. There's there's a way to do excitement wrong. Right. Here's another way to do it. Right. Uh, this is my first mentor, Joanna Web, who founded Copy Hackers. Uh, yes, Joe, put me into this program right now. Sounds like what I want. I know what's going to happen on the other side of the button. Smash it. Also, it's big. Notice visually this button takes up a lot more

22:41space than join now. We like that. So, speed is cool. Speed is exciting. Is you scale here? Oh, thank God. Um, there we need context to get excited about speed, right? So, our agents engage with your customers in under three minutes. Why is that good? Is three minutes a short amount of time? What are agents? Also, I think the room is like evenly split on that. Some people are really into agents and some people are like, I don't use

23:16chat GBT. Um, so you have no context. Uh, and if you if you scale does show up, I I will help you workshop this because I picked on you. Um, and then I talked about how important it is to have hope as an on-ramp to excitement. Here's what it looks like when you don't have

23:34that. Sorry, micro. It goes from like super super corporate, we value your interest in joining Microconv connect. If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out. And then it goes, keep rocking it. Who is that? Blink twice if you're okay. I'm going to fix that. I don't know if I mentioned this, but I just joined Microconferent Tiny Seed as the fractional uh marketing manager. So, we're going to fix that. Oh, yes. Please

24:02clap. Thank you. Yay. Yeah, it's it's it's exciting. Um, so just just a tip if you are scared to use any excitement in your copy, especially if you are coming from a little bit more stayed, if you have more stakeholders uh who want you to sound big and fancy and boring, just a little bit goes a long way. Um, and I I would say it's part of your brand voice and you can quantify the amount of excitement you have in your brand voice, but I know that no one here is thinking about brand voice. We're just thinking about revenue, right? That's fine. I too

24:35love money. Um, okay, cool. The fifth feeling is flattery. You're like, "Hey, that's not a feeling." And I'm like, "Shut up. This is my talk." I say, "What's a feeling?" Cool. I really just wanted to shoehorn flattery in here because it's so important, right? Uh, we use flattery because people like feeling good. If we can make them feel good, they will come back. If we can make them feel good, they will stay. If we can make them feel good, they won't get mad at us when we do something wrong. So, when you have to send an oops email, you're like, "Oh,

25:16sorry. It's down. Something's broken." Uh, but you're so smart. Thanks for being here. They're like, "Okay, I forgive you. I'll I'll give you some I'll cut you some slack." So, how do we make them feel smart and savvy? Uh, in our cold emails, sparingly. If you're doing cold outreach, we've all gotten the really like sickopantic cold emails. It's like, "Oh my god, you're so amazing. Please be on my podcast. By the

25:40way, you have to pay for it." I hate that one. Um, and if we are writing copy directly to one ICP, which we should be, we should be defining them in the copy and we can slip a little flattery in there. And what does that look like? Like, hey, you're not stupid. So you know this is the way to do things and not everyone cares or even knows the difference between the two solutions but you do and as an experienced whatever you are you know that so speaking to their wisdom speaking to their

26:12experience their discernment. Here's an example. Uh this is wise. You do business in multiple currencies so you get it. Transfers aren't just slow. Banks charge hidden fees. For small businesses those fees add up. That's why you should use wise. Cool. Yes, I do actually do business in multiple currencies. No, I don't, but I'd like

26:36to. Um, here is a cold email I got a couple years ago. I searched in my Gmail for uh cold emails. Plling, we've never met. You're not here. Okay. Uh, he says, "Good morning, Lyanna. This is very nonswedish of me reaching out like this to a complete rock star." H okay. Despite being a complete noob, I decided to take us live on Product Hunt today. Is there any chance a pro like you would consider engaging in dialogue with our founder in the comments section? Figured I'd at least ask. And I was like, "Okay, Paris, like it's a little much, but also like I mean fine, I'll click through and see

27:18what whatever it was Zaplify is." Um, yeah. Yeah. And also notice he's uh he's complimenting me and he's being a little bit self-deprecating at the same time. I personally love just a hint of self-deprecation, especially in cold outreach. Uh the charm and disarm method tends to work well. It stands out in the inbox. Uh and it's Yeah, he's going a little bit far, but he did get a

27:41response from me. I was like, "Thank you. I feel so pretty today." So, in your copy, can you add a smack of ham? Any Arrested Development fans here? No. Okay. Can you add a smack of flattery to existing copy that's defining your readers or can you add a touch of it to your cold outreach? Again, a little goes a long way, especially if you're not already doing

28:05this. And my last feeling, I had seven feelings, but then I was like, that's too many feelings. And also, Rob had seven growth plateaus. I was like, I don't want to just be the seven people. You know what's in that box? Okay. Nope. Not going there. Okay. Um, confidence is an interesting one because this is a feeling that we feel and we pass on to the reader through the copy, right? Uh, why do we use it? Because we want to inspire confidence in them. We want them to believe that this is a tool that will not just disappear tomorrow, right? Uh, kind of the same as

28:44excitement. We're just it's a little bit contagious. Um, and we want to show them that we believe in what we're doing. So, imagine you are on a plane and the pilot comes on and he's like, "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. We are about to hit a little bit of turbulence. Uh, I'd like everyone to take their seats. The flight attendants will also be in their seats. Uh, I've been flying for 25 years, and I can assure you, uh, we're going to get through this just fine. So, bear with me, and I'll see you on the other side." You're like, "All right, sounds bad, but we got this." And then

29:17what if he gets on the intercom and says, "Uh, hey, hey everyone. Um, so there's a storm coming and it looks pretty bad." And like I think I think we should probably sit down and I'm I'm going to try my best. I'm like, "Get me the [ __ ] off this plane. I will parachute through a lightning storm to get away from that

29:41guy." So, thank you for liking that story. Um, what does confidence look like in copy? Clear statements. Often these are short sentences. Um, something I see a lot in SAS is like we've been told that uh long sentences will keep people reading. So, we try to cram everything into one sentence and then it's like, "Oh my god, I need a PhD just to figure out what you do from your headline." Um, confidence also shows up in your FAQs because it's showing the reader that you anticipate their

30:15questions. You've already answered them. Usually, there's something at the bottom that's like, "Hey, did we miss something? Reach out." That's confidence. Tell us we're wrong. Tell us we missed something. That's confidence. Uh, and any unique, bold, or specific claims you can make. So, usually confidence is showing up right in your hero headline on your homepage or landing page. It should be on your pricing page. It's in your onboarding emails because you are so sure that you can help them get the result that they want. It's in any promises or claims that you're making. And if you're doing

30:46a free trial, it's in the free trial. So, here is superhum again saying save four hours per person every single week. Save four hours per person is the promise, but every single week is the confidence, right? It's like we promise you for the rest of your life, every single week you'll save four hours. And it's the most productive email app ever

31:08made. Like damn. Okay, I believe you. Uh, adsplanner.ai, are you here? Wow. Zero for like seven. Why do I even bother? Um, I stole this from the microcon feedback request channel. Uh, their headline is see results from your first ad. That's pretty confident, right? That is the kind of thing that you better be able to back up because it

31:31makes the reader say like, "Okay, bet. Let's see." and I will turn if I don't see results from my first ad. Confidence also looks like social proof and trust signals. Uh we we love social proof here, y'all. Everybody loves social proof because we hate to be alone. We don't want to think we're the first to ask for anything or to risk anything. There's a little social proof right there for you. Very believable testimonial

32:00from his lordship on high. I don't know. I've never been to church. Um, here's an example of social proof that I like. Uh, this is Bench Accounting. Uh, just use this as an example, not them shutting down their whole business in December. Good copy. Not great business. Um, they say trusted by 25,000 uh plus American small business owners. They're identifying the reader right there in the title, right? Uh, and if you were here for Anony's talk yesterday, you might remember this is also a good place to mention what the tool is. So, this could have been the accounting platform

32:37trusted by 25,000 small business owners. Like, that's a twofur. Who are they? How many of them are there? Uh, and here are all the kinds of proof and trust signals you can include. So, reviews, you should be on Capterara G2. We're trying to get everybody on Capterara and G2. It's a pain in the ass. um testimonials, case studies, any certifications you have, all the logos you can muster, press coverage, guarantees, um and any solid numbers that are impressive. And if you need help making a number look impressive, ask a copywriter because we will work that number to death, typing the whole

33:15thing out. So, just to recap, my favorite slide, thank you. It's a good one, right? I always remember my my best friend who designed the slides for me and she was like, "Don't do that. That's stupid." And I was like, "We're going to do it, Julia. Get back to work." So, the TLDDR, uh, you do have to use pain and anxiety. I'm sorry. You do, but you don't have to overplay it. You don't have to feel like you're cosplaying as someone else. I certainly never do that myself. Um, you want to lead into excitement with a little bit of hope so

33:50that you're not just going zero to 100. And if you want them to be excited, you have to be excited. And excitement looks different. And you can use just a touch uh to convey that to your readers. Got to flatter their asses, make them feel special. And honest confidence is key. And that's it. Thanks y'all.