How to Generate a Billion Views | Lucas Hazan

0:00Welcome back to the podcast. Today I'm sitting down with Lucas Hassan. Lucas is an absolute powerhouse when it comes to scaling consumer products, having built over a dozen businesses across hardware, SAS, DTOC, and marketplaces. He recently left the incubator world to go allin as the founder of Knocked, bringing with him a wealth of experience from his past roles driving growth at Tickpic and product at Fidelity. He's a master at distribution, a strong believer that resumes are dead, and an operator who plays games where $5 million is just a drop in the bucket. Lucas, welcome to

0:31the show. Pleasure to meet. Appreciate. Pleasure to see you, brother. I I hope all is well. What are you building right now? Um, a lot of things, honestly. Um, I'm very ADHD in that front. Um, but I'm focused on a few consumer brands right now as well as building uh just mass media attention powerhouse vehicle. And I can go into more detail on what that what the [ __ ] that means,

1:03but yeah. Um, I started Yeah. What does it mean? Um I as before this call or before the start I said um I had a coming to Jesus moment of like where do I want to go with my career and I wanted to focus on attention. I feel like as apps and software becomes more commoditized being able to drive distribution in a co like a costefficient manner is going to be like the most valuable thing possible. Like there was a period where like drop drop drop shipping was a massive thing for Shopify. Now apps are like becoming even more commoditized. So the biggest thing is like yeah

1:50attention is basically what everything runs on like you're you're saying drop shipping or um politics, TV, everything is on the back of of distribution and attention. So that's my belief system too. Yeah. I mean like our president was literally like he won the election in a lot of ways because of just mass media

2:12like attention grabbing. Same with same with Mandami. Exactly. Exactly. The people who win in the future from here on out will just be better at distributing than everyone else. Right. But you still need to create a great product. So I think like my focus is building great products while also being on the forefront of like grabbing attention because and what does that mean from a vehicle? like paid ads is only getting more expensive and being able to have efficient ways to get top offunnel brand awareness for your businesses is the most important thing because if you can get millions to billions impressions organically your CAC and just overall CPMs will be a lot

2:57more efficient on paid and all roads lead back to paid. But if you're starting with paid acquisition as like your main driver or funnel for acquiring users um or customers, it's just going to be a blood bath. Like you see like I'm on e ecom Twitter and like people are like how how are how is he like is

3:17everyone else feeling this right now? Like how's it just met is like shooting the bed. Like Zuckerberg doesn't care about um e-commerce brands. They just care about taking your margin. And like I think over the past year or two, I've learned so much about organic and like I think that's where I want to double down on because I think it's only going to become even more valuable in the the

3:39years to come. So true. Organic. People ask me my opinions on paid a lot. And I think influence happens through organic. um when people there's something about seeing a lot of views and and the social proof inherently in an organic video um that drives people to make decisions. So, how do you think about I guess maybe your your marketing mix or your split between organic versus paid for your own

4:04company, Knock? For Knock specifically, I'm running that fully autonomously um with just organic content. Wow. We're generating um millions of views organically at like a 60% profit margin. Like it's it's very it's very efficient. This is autopilot. That's incredible. Yeah. No, it's pretty sick. Um, I I think my overall goal with Happy Labs is to build out a fleet of consumer brands, but I think it's also to double down and scale scale and super aggressively, but across the way building out like a bunch of super profitable businesses at the same time to just inherently increase the overall value. Um, like my whole goal originally was to build like

5:05like just a portfolio of brands like building out the PNG of like consumer brands or for organic verality brands. Um, but I think I started that initially that business without really understanding distribution. So I think that was a much bigger hurdle to go over. But now I have so much knowledge and so much more leverage at this point that I can like I can do anything like I can build any brand and like just scale it up very aggressively for organic and then double down on paid. Um but for knocked specifically sleep is a very hard

5:44category and it's very black and white. So, I would almost want to run that more organically and first order profitable versus another business that has like a lot more longevity daily vitamin mixes and things like that that are like more like 90 days or further out like um CD effects. I think you're able to scale that more on like a month two, three, four, and five payback on CAC. Um, so

6:14like just like Grunes or any of those. But um, yeah, when you look at organic, what is what is your main organic strategy? Is it organic UGC? Is it slideshows? Is it AI content at all? I know you don't want to give away too much, but you know, maybe percentages in terms of where you think about putting

6:34your time. Um, it really depends on the business. Every business has a different lever when it comes to organic. Some are just more ripe for for like slideshow content. Um, others just rip really easily with organic UGC. Others just do really well with AI. Um, for Knox specifically, we run AI AI UGC um on Facebook and it just like does very well. Like that's the arbitrage right now in the market. Um, and like our demographics a lot older, like

7:12people that are like 55 plus years old. I don't even know if they don't know it's AI content or if they just don't care. I think they just don't care. I think they don't care either. I talked to I was in Miami and you know another founder of a gummy um that you know Roberto uh and we were we were actually talking about one of those videos and he was like you know Lucas told me this converted like really well and I was like no way you know what I mean I had never seen AI convert and you know again we don't have to get into too much um

7:46but uh it was funny it was funny that um you know those those were the videos that were converting so I wonder if it dude I honestly think Facebook and older audiences can't detect that it's AI anymore. To us, it does stand out naturally. I don't think they can tell because my parents send me stuff all the time and I'm like like is this supposed to be funny or, you know, like I I'm not understanding why you're sending this to

8:09me. I don't think they can tell. I I don't I I think they just care about the story rather than the actual like what it what like who it is or what it is. Um, which is super interesting. Like when you think about organic distribution now, I personally think it's more so about the person like if we're talking like

8:31politics. Yeah. Or how do you how is it really just the story more than the person? I mean, it's it's kind of like it's just DR. It's direct response marketing. Like I think it starts with like being problem like really dissecting the problem of the consumer and then going down the funnel of like here's problem how it relates to them and like here are pro like products that they probably use or different methods of trying to solve that problem and then having a like a clear solution and a like driving call to action. So I think like there's different ways to attack marketing where like there are authority figures and

9:10there's also ones where it's like this is just a a head that like a individual that's distributing a message that is clear and resonating with like the problem that me as a person is facing. Where did you where did you learn to market? Is is this mostly from like when you talk about direct response, are you reading a lot of copyrightiting books or are you just learning in the field or

9:34from friends? How do you learn? Um I'm friends with a bunch of people in the ecom space from like Robert Young, Luca Wenko, like all these guys that are just cracked ecom guys. like they are the ones that that taught me DR like and then like I just like learned from just doing reading looking at ad libraries like just copying in getting inspiration from like I think um I I've not I've never really been the one to like sit down and read like a instruction manual or how to do things. I kind of just like

10:09jump in figure it out as I go. Dude, it's so funny. I feel like information is such a gap, but if you don't know, you can just check someone's ad library and see what's working for them, you know? Yeah. Like it's kind of I'm surprised that more people don't spend all all all their days in an ad library. Yeah. I mean I think I'm unique in the sense where I tiptoe a line within the consu because I come from the software world originally but then I also I built a DCDC brand like four years ago. Um and like I had come from ecom world now. Um like

10:51knowing one way is knowing no way. Like I like to say it like I think being able to see things from a bunch of different perspectives provides like um edges that other people may not be seeing. Like see knowing the super aggressive direct response marketers on ecom and also what the aggressive e uh drop shippers are doing like how are they acquiring users like what are the drop shippers doing like with AI content and then how is that like funneling up to like consumer app founders? or are they doing from organic to paid acquisition? Um, it kind of goes like drop shippers then ecom ecom founders, consumer app founders to

11:33B2B SAS founders like as far as like how marketing falls down because drop shippers have the least amount of money so they have to be the most scrappy versus B2B have literally infinite money. So they they can spend as much as they want to acquire a customer. So, their creativity is much lower. Uh, versus some 18-year-old that will do anything to buy a Lamborghini and doesn't have the money yet. You know, he's got to run

11:56it up in two months. I mean, it's insane. Like, especially AI, you see, there's people in um some of these creator communities that are making like like 400 500K a month off just organic content. It's It's pretty insane. You're not You're not talking about actual creators, are you? Are you talking about like Creators Corner AI? Like Yeah, those guys that talking about like those guys, the Creators Corner AIC, it's like the whole Amazon game like uh all like SourPop um and some of these other brands, they're just [ __ ] cooking. Um

12:35it's a whole operation now. Yeah, it is. It is. It is for sure. you know, um I I saw Jimmy starting to push the AI content more and I started seeing monks on my Instagram talking about products and I was like, who is doing this? Um you know, watching a lot of those AI UGC videos um and they're selling info like I was like, "Yeah, people are combining like, you know, it's like Thanos with the rings or whatever." You know, people are putting

13:02it all. My mom has sent me some of the videos, dude. It's just where we are. And it's crazy every so I believe in attention as well. I mean it's it's almost weird because it's getting easier for people to push out product whether that is I mean software companies um or or normal ecom DTOC products or whatever. It's getting easier all the time. So people are just pushing out more stuff quicker instead of taking the extra time and and to really develop a good product. So, where do you spend your time in terms of, you know, this is something that I know will do well right

13:34now versus I'm going to push this product a little bit more because I think it could be even better before you launch. Um, the time to think of an idea and create the thing is infinitely getting smaller. Like I my first business, real business was a direct consumer dog food delivery brand during COVID and I I made it with my dad

14:01and we scaled it up to a decent size. Um, but that was like pure like boots on the ground farmers market style brand like marketing and influencers and local towns and stuff like that took like a good year for me to bring it to the market and then knocked took me like eight month eight months to get to the market. it it I think it's it takes time like things take time but then most recent business that took two months to break come to the market and then also on the software side like you know you you learn through just doing like I think the best found like

14:48most founders they start out like obsessing over the product and like they like need it to be perfect and then the second time you build something you start to like be more focused on distribution And the third time you're like, "All right, like product's good enough. Let's focus like fully on distribution." Like, you need to you need to do a lot of [ __ ] and you

15:08need to throw a lot of [ __ ] at the wall. And like over time, you start to realize what to prioritize and what has the most highest impact. And I think like at the end of the day, like you could have the greatest product, but if you're not if you don't have any customers, it's like what the [ __ ] are you doing? versus if you have a shitty product, you know, you'll have trash retention, but maybe

15:30you have a great distribution strategy. So, like I think it's a lot easier to create a good product versus like having really good distribution. It's a lot easier to have a really good product and it's a lot harder to crack distribution. But if you can crack distribution and you have an RA product, you could always refine refine it to

15:54make it better. Yeah. I always kind of recommend people get something to market, you know, like find for consumer apps. By the way, if you're younger and you're trying to get into something, build a consumer app, solve one single pain point, and you don't have to think of any new idea. Go to the app store. This is how I learned from Blake Anderson. And I was like, how did you come up with Cali? You know, I was like, I really want to know. And he was like, "Well, I looked at the I was

16:19looking through the app store for ideas. I saw that My Fitness Pal was crushing and you know, they never they never updated their app for AI. Like it was old and manual and you had to physically do it." Like, "So, we just make a fitness app and you take a picture and AI analyzes it for you." And he's like, "That was it?" So, Consumer Rep, you know, ironically, there's people doing 500K mil a month just copying Cali fully, like word for word. Um, so yeah, if you're a young kid, uh, I think, you know, probably don't copy something word for word, but understand that, you know,

16:53it's not that hard to come up with an idea. Like, you really shouldn't spend time on that. Get something to market and start start on marketing and distribution because that game changes all the time, every day. Um, and you want to get up to speed on that as quick as possible, make money with a product that does solve a painoint, and then you can bring on the technical talent or be good enough at distribution where you can go find the technical talent that you need. Um, you know, that's kind of what I did for Rtech, our platform. Um, and initially I wanted to push that out

17:20quickly, so bad. Um, because I I know how important distribution is, especially for that space that it's going to be in. Um, but I looked around at the other products and everything was it's all kind of incomplete. Like people are not really taking their time to make great products anymore. um you know do you do you like building the like more software consumer products or I love building like I think that is my that is why I do what I do like I think I'm a builder at heart at heart um but I think distribution is like you need distribution so like in a in a perfect world where Like maybe if

18:10money is not an object or just not like something I I need to care about, I think I would probably just build a bunch of just random [ __ ] I'm like definitely inventor tinker at heart. That's just kind of my thing. But I love that. I love that. I I got a list of questions for you and I want to get into your stuff you're doing for fitness right now as well because people don't know this but you've ran a full Iron Man, right? I've

18:38done I've done one full iron man. One full iron man. What are you training for right now? I'm doing a halfiron man in two weeks July 12th in upstate New York. And you have a girlfriend? I do have a I have a a loving girlfriend. She's great. So you have actually done it. You you have the relationship, you have the business, and you have the physical health. You know, people always say, "Oh, you can't do this or whatever." How are you managing to to handle all of

19:04that? I'm just I'm just winging life. I love it. I I definitely, you know, I I saw something recently like if you want it bad enough, you'll have it. I just I think it's cope when people are like, "Well, girlfriend is is a distraction." You know, maybe the person you're with is just not not the right partner. My girlfriend's also an entrepreneur as well. So like I think she understands a lot of like just just being one

19:45herself. Yeah. I mean she's a beast. She's she's great. That probably helps a ton, you know. Um she she first of all has her own stuff going on which is huge. And then two, you guys do have similar pains uh dayto day, week by week. So, you know, and you could probably bounce ideas off of her

20:06and like helps you with your business. So, that's kind of awesome because people always ask me, they're like, "Well, do you really want to date someone that's like an entrepreneur and like a a boss?" And I'm like, "Yes, 100%." You know, I've tried the other thing. Um, I really do think you need someone that um, you know, it is equally yked with you. I think that goes beyond, you know, religion. It's also just your

20:30It's kind of everything. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's I don't want a cheerleader. I want I want a partner. And like I could see myself building something with her. We actually built we made an LLC earlier this year. Um there was I made a post on on Twitter about uh getting a co-working spot and uh that actually ended up falling through. But um yeah, we were like actually looking at uh buying a warehouse in

21:06that spot looked incredible. It was great. And then we got to the minutia and it was not great, but then you know that's how you got to West Palm. You got to come to West Palm. Um dude, I 100%. Do you have desires to be in New York long term or how do you look at it?

21:25I'll probably always have a place here. Um either a place in Connecticut or in upstate New York. Um my family has a place in Florida, so definitely something down south in Florida makes sense, too. Um I I love when you post Connecticut stuff and you talk about unplugging, disconnecting. That's it's my favorite thing in the world because I can work really hard for a batch. Maybe it's two, three months and then as long as I have something on the calendar where I get to go clear my mind, um I can come back like a week later and just have another two to three months of

22:02pretty much laser focus. Do you just go to the woods? Go to the mountains. Go to the woods. I think that's what you say in your your post. Time by the sea, escape to the woods. Yeah. Yes. Yes. 100%. Um so question for you. Uh, you have a a filter for testing people's worth. Quote, "Give them a

22:23simple task and see if they complete it. What is an example of simple task you use to weed out people um that you work with?" It's actually the simplest [ __ ] Like like like what? We're I work with a lot of creators and like I'll ask them to submit a form like a a quick video that takes maybe like 10 or 20 seconds to make. And like if they're reluctant to do that, that instantly makes me understand if they're going to be an easy creator to work with or not. Like uh that's that's something or like Hey, can you if I'm already paying you, like,

23:13you know, can you write this document or like can you do this thing for me? And like if they just don't follow through on that simple thing, I think um it's a clear sign that there might they're not they're not the right fit. When you realize someone is not the right fit, how quickly do you move on from them? Be honest. You know, a lot of people say, "Oh, you know, as soon as you find out, you got to move on." What, like, do you struggle with that? Like,

23:38what does that look like? If I know someone's not the right fit, I um I'm very blunt, like to the point where I'm like a little bit autistic, like where I uh I apologize. Um I'm like I'm very like I'm very uh I'm very like you just got to go. like you like not you

24:00got to go but like I have to say it. It's like I I I have it on my chest. I have to um I have to uh I have to say something. You have to say something. You have to be honest. I I feel the same thing. What if they're like, you know, I don't want to go, you know, or you know that's I'm

24:16not ready. I haven't uh I feel like that's like I don't I don't want things to end like in relationship. Like the the band-aid's already off. like it's it's done. Um like even relationships I've I'm like once something's on the wall like it's like I got to act. I'm very I'm very quick to act cuz I can't I don't like letting things fester because then if you let things fester you start resenting them and like it starts coming out through different ways and like I think it's better just be clear and direct and just

24:51like say it like it is. Don't be true. So true. I've struggled with that a lot. I've uh you know I've always tried to It's tough. Yeah. Because you're going to upset people and so you have to kind of just get around that fact that people are not going to be happy. Um and that's just part of it, you know? And that and then that kind of makes it better because it's like they're not going to be happy either way, so we may as well do it now,

25:16you know? I mean, you're just human. You're just human. You're just human. You uh you broke down your 20s into two eras. You said 21 to 26 is for [ __ ] up and laying your foundation, but 27 to 29 is when your dreams begin to be realized. What was kind of, you know, some of those negatives that you had to go

25:35through in order to get to this point? I mean, I worked a few jobs out of college that I hated. Um, I kind of was in like the rat, not rat race, but like, you know, I went the standard path of like getting a job after college and then like parlaying that into a startup

25:58and like thinking, "Oh, this is sick." But then I was like, "Oh, wow. This actually sucks." Um like I at the same time I was also building I was I've always been building something like from like even my internship I would go into like a side room when I was working at Fidel Investments as an intern I was like building an app. Um, like I always that's always how I've I've ran. I've always taken it more safe from that side where I've always had side projects and then I would like see where they would go and then yeah I mean knocked was the first thing where I kind of went all in and that was

26:39like the catalyst to everything else that happened afterwards where what what made you go all in on Knocked versus other pro projects? I think I had the intuition that this was a thing and that the writing was on the wall that I needed to stop taking it so safe. Um yeah, I think I've always had like a nineto-five job like up until like two years ago. Um, I had or maybe a year ago, yeah, I had a n 9 to5 and I just I knew it wasn't the path I wanted and I think I had enough of inclination that things were working. Um, well, things were working enough financially where I

27:36could just I could just do it. Like it wasn't worst case I have to move home like and just figure it out for a few months but best case like this works out or something else works out and like it's not even delusional I delusion I think it's just having the inner belief that everything will work out and like if you just show up do the right things or not do the right things just put yourself in the right place to meet the right It's It's over. It's just It's just going to

28:12work out. Yeah. It almost starts to be to be a little bit easier than you had thought. Like I think when you're younger, you think it's like impossible. Like the way people talk about entrepreneurship and you know success. It's like you got to work really hard for a really long time and you know you got to get lucky and you got to it's just like you do but if you do that then it works out. You know what I mean? Like there's like this idea that like businesses fail like a ton. I mean I mean I started the other side where my first business slashside project was like a hardware

28:53software project and I thought I was going to be the next like Steve Jobs building that and then it just [ __ ] the fan and then that was like a good humbling experience to like parlay into something that's a lot easier to build. And then from there, I was able to get more momentum. The next thing I was like, okay, now I can build this. And I

29:14was like, okay, let's build in software. Let's do this. And then everything's kind of like compounding over time where like building a product's just easy now. And now it's like the next challenge or problem is like building like building distribution. And now that's becoming even easier now. And like everything is just kind of compounding over time. you have to grind glass within your mouth or eat glass and just it's the growing pains. Um, you think fitness has made that easier for you? Like being able to do really hard things and seeing how day in day out it gets you to the goal that you

29:48want? Definitely. I think I'm a pure masochist and I think a lot of um like entrepreneurs you kind of have to be a masochist. Um I uh I was a rower in high school and college and that just kind of like if you ever been on a concept to your urg or row rower that's it's just pure pain. Um but it's also the most beautiful thing in the world like and I I love it. I love this game. Like it's

30:19it's it's who I am. Why is why is it beautiful if it's so hard? Like what part of that do you really enjoy? There's beauty in willing to sacrifice so much time and energy towards building something. And to see it turn into something like flourishing and successful is like such an imaginary like imaginative thing where you're taking something from nothing like a child or like a baby and like you're giving it food, you're giving it water and like you're giving it the proper nourishment to grow and to build to be someone or be something. And um you know it's it's hard but life is hard and I like you know res like resilience

31:14is everything and the way you show up for anything is the way you show up for everything and you know I think rowing triathlons it's very similar to entrepreneurship where like you're grinding it out pushing yourself and you're seeing the progress. It's more linear versus entrepreneurship. Um, so yeah, it's it is a lot it is a lot more linear. Um, entrepreneurship, you know, people talk about the valley of despair, but the valley of despair actually occurs quite a few times. You know what I mean? It's not like single little graph where everything's confined or like, you know, fitness, I guess you can kind of feel this in fitness. you

31:57you might have like an off week or something where you need more rest, but fitness is relatively straight with like slight things. Entrepreneurship will go under the x-axis and it might stay there for a little while or a year or whatever and you know it it it is a very different experience but it you know life is hard and I think one of the best benefits of fitness this is this is personally why I love to backpack go to the mountains and just do really hard stuff for a week out of the year. I

32:24would do it more, but I I can't yet. Full disclosure. Um, but if you don't do extremely hard things like that, uh, life is actually fairly difficult because when you're like, if you're in life and something happens, call doesn't go through, you have to fire someone, like whatever it is, it seems very difficult until you've done something that's just far more difficult where you're actually trying to fight for survival or, you know, you don't have a lot of food or whatever it is. It's like, oh, like I feel like, you know, but it kind of feels good. It's kind of a massochist thing. You're right. You're

32:59right. It becomes pure pure primal at some point. Pure primal. I love it. So So when you think about distribution now, um, a lot of people ask me about Clippers now. Um, do you think Clippers are viable for growing a DTOC CPG brand or do you think it's like organic UGC? I'll give you an example. Neurogum. Um I I've I like Ketone IQ. They their founder liked Neurogum's Tik Tok shop strategy which was clipping um like their Shark Tank episodes and stuff like that and mass distributing them. However, in my mind that was done by Tik Tok Shop and UGC creators that understood viral moments and how to harness them and then

33:47it kind of came out in the format of a clip. But it's it's to me it was very different than like clipping like a long form video and just posting that. You know what I mean? Um have you have you thought about clipping at all or are you just doing organic? Um well the way I think about clipping

34:05versus the way you're talking about it. I think it's maybe clipping was originally, as you said, from YouTube long form, but that's just the Tik Tok shop version's just like guys taking clips and editing it in a video. Clippers is like a mass distribution like what you see with um Clvicular. Yeah. Or um any of these ma major

34:29streamers like Kai Cena, I show Speed. Um there's these like guys in India and um Eastern Europe that are generating like they're making like 50k a month like some probably 100k a month off just like mass mass distributed clips um based on campaigns that are uh being ran. So how does that work? Like someone listening to this and doesn't understand

34:52it, where are they making 50k from? Um, there's a lot of places. Uh, Affiliate Network, uh, is one. You should definitely check that spot out. They're probably like the biggest, uh, clipping community. Um, they also have some really good botting mechanisms so that if a brand wants to do a campaign, they uh they uh tell they can tell versus concert rewards has really shitty botting um capabilities which I everyone I hear that top uses

35:23them, they're they say it's horrible. Plus, um most of the campaigns on there just like don't get their budget spent. So like people aren't actually going on to the campaign because it's uh self-service versus affiliate networks more like catered to the campaign um so that they make sure it actually gets spent. WAP gave me clients for the old content reward system and the botting was so bad that um I was trying to fix it and mitigate it and these clients were getting pissed at me instead of [ __ ] I was like this is [ __ ] software by the way like I had nothing to do with this and I

35:57stopped. That was like when I knew I'm done with the agency thing. I need to build my own platform. Uh yeah, if you're you're kind of like fighting an uphill battle at that point. Um can't beat it. You can't you're not in charge of product. That's the issue with an agency. Totally. Totally. Um

36:14Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Um so what are you what are you looking to do the rest of this year in terms of what you're trying to build, what you're trying to accomplish? You have personal goals. How does that look? Uh scale scale scale. That's that's pretty much it. Just gas pedal. Just like full gas. I um past few summers I uh did Euro summers. I'm taking a break and I'm I'm uh I'm locked in the summer. So uh

36:44me as well. Yeah, I'll just go home to Connecticut or something. I just need a lot of really good things are going on right now. So I just need to uh lock in for the next six months. I mean the way technology is going like it just you have to lock in for the next couple years. Uh yeah you know generational wealth is happening you know. Um I'm 27 so I'm kind of giving myself three years. Obviously I'll do stuff in between but my timeline is you know I'm the world's going to be

37:16very different I think in three years. Could be wrong, but the way technology is going, I mean, do you think we're gonna get access to Fable 5 again or what? Or is that just we no longer get the top models anymore? Yeah. I mean, I think that was more of a political thing than a

37:33demonstration kind of thing. Yeah. I think Well, Trump and everyone in office like they they don't like Claude. They don't like anthropic. Like they're very for the people anti-government. They're complying in certain ways, but I think I just don't think they're on the good side with um the government versus Chachi is a lot more compliant.

38:02Obviously, Palanteer is more compliant. Um they're very pro America. Um so yeah, I think it was just more of like a like a power play on that part. I don't think there was anything that crazy. Maybe there was something crazy, but like there's so many other models out there like that people are taking advantage of and can hack into or like over like patch through um with just the right prompting. I heard that they had sent uh like they stopped sending Daario in or Dario into the White House to have those negotiations because they didn't like you know having those conversations with

38:39him. They sent in the co-founder Tom. Yeah. Um, and so that's kind of funny. It's happens. It's just a It's a game. It's all a game. Status game all the way up all the way up to the top. Um, well, Lucas, thank you for hopping on. Where can people find you and talk more with you and

39:00learn about your products? Um, I app on Twitter. Asen 0608. That's h a zam068. Is that how you say your last name? Yeah, I was going to say so, but you know, it's it's it's Han. I've told everyone I've ever talked to about you. Huzzah. Hazen. It's Hazen. But Han is like it's all the

39:23same [ __ ] Say it how you want. I will never I disagree. I think it's your name. You know what I mean? Like I I wouldn't say it wrong like that. Aan. Yeah. It's very It's Mediterranean. Yeah, dude. I have a I have a friend uh Brian. His last name is Delmada, right? But it's

39:40Delmato. Delmada. It's D E L I M A T A. So, you know, I was I kind of was like joking around calling him De Lada, you know. And he's like, yeah, it's Del M. I was like, I knew him for like two years, bro. He said nothing. And I was like, you're and his girlfriend finally like, you know, she hung out with us. She's like, can you say I was like, well, is it not? I don't know. So, I feel bad. I want to be

40:05corrected, you know, if I say it wrong. I had a I had a girl I had a a girl I was dating for four month the first four months I was saying her first name incorrectly. She didn't she didn't uh correct me till four months in. So you know it it people are people are weird. People are like

40:22that. Dude that's crazy. That's crazy. Anyway, thank you for joining. Um this has been episode 20 I believe of content comedy. Talk to you later. All right. It's