How To ACE Coffee Chats (Proven System for Getting Referrals)

0:00Okay. I've done hundreds of coffee chats. Some of them went terribly and some of them went extremely well, and one of them even almost landed me a job created for me, so I didn't just get a referral, they created a job for me because of this coffee chat that I had with a vp.

0:15And I've also been on the other side of coffee chats. I've been coffee chatted a few times and I can tell you there are some people where I was like, I definitely wanna help you. And I've had experiences where I was like , I wish you all the best, but please don't talk to me ever again. And so in this video, I don't wanna just show you how to

0:29prepare well or how to handle the interview so that it's not awkward. That's all something that I will teach you, but My goal with this video is to show you exactly how to handle this coffee chat that you have so well that the person you're speaking to won't just want to help you. They will volunteer to help you. The approach that I will share with you in this video is based

0:50off of a book by Steve Dalton. It's called The Two Hour Job Search, and you don't need to read it. I'm really gonna summarize everything you need to know in this video. I also adapted the approach based on my experience with interviewing, and it's not just applicable to tech. So let's dive in. My biggest lesson overall, is that a Coffee Chat's goal is

1:06to build trust and connection. when you build that with a person, they know why you are speaking to them, okay? They know that you're looking for an opportunity. So if you build that trust and connection well and follow these steps. You won't even have to ask because it's about helping the other person help you, making it a no-brainer

1:25and this approach is so rare. No one almost does it that those who do it, the top whatever, one 5% of people that actually do this during coffee chat end up consistently getting amazing results. All right, so there are three parts to every coffee chat or informational interview. The first one is small talk. It takes about five to 10 minutes and it's really what kicks off the tone

1:46of the whole informational interview. So that one's gonna be really important to get right, and I'll show you exactly how. The second part is the q and a or learning phase, and that's when you're going to really get content from the person you're speaking to. You are going to show them that you're eager, that you're curious,

2:02and that you value their perspective. You're gonna make them feel like an expert, and that's really what's going to create that trust and connection . And then lastly, the third part is the next step and follow up sort of portion of the call. This is barely a minute or two, but it's crucial. because So before we get into those three parts and how to do well at each of them,

2:19let's get into the preparation for the call and how you should get ready. Now. A lot of websites and recruiters online will tell you just, you know, research the company, research person. Like, yes, but that doesn't mean anything. Like we both know that what you actually want to do, and let's do this by part, right? Like we start with the company, the company you're interested in, that

2:36you are speaking to someone there. You wanna research not just what they do. So obviously go to their website, ask Chad, GBT, go to Google, whatever it is. Look into their product and services. You wanna know what challenges they're thinking about, where they're going. like look into their founding history, if they're a nonprofit, look into the cause that they're trying to address.

2:54But when you are looking into them, you want to be future oriented. Maybe you look into their investor relations documents if there are public companies, so you can hear about challenges for the future opportunities you want to get into their world. And that sounds like a lot. But if you do just 15 minutes of focused research, you can get that. You wanna become a mini expert so that you are asking the right questions,

3:17not so you have all the answers. And then of course, do look into the person you're speaking to, especially if they're more senior. You of course, will look at their LinkedIn, but you can also look at just Googling their name. If they have a personal website. Do they have publications up somewhere? Do they have academic references?

3:32Like, look into these things because if something stands out to you. Don't make it awkward. Don't be like, I saw you did this, which is proof that I researched you. Like, no, but bring it up naturally. Maybe they have researched something that you're interested in or maybe they have spoken at a conference you've attended

3:46and their style also matters. There is one person I coffee chatted and I think this is helpful example. Where I found they did a podcast and I watched the whole podcast like obviously three times speed , and I noticed that this guy that I was gonna speak to is super casual. Like now that I know that his style is casual, I knew to be a bit more relaxed

4:05when I came into the conversation because I wanna match that energy, right? The way you build trust and connection is very human. And it's the same in a career conversation or a coffee chat as it is with a friend or anyone else. And then, you're ready to get into the other part of preparation,

4:18which is preparing your questions. Now, when you prepare your questions, you wanna also prepare how you're gonna answer certain things, because it's a conversation. You're not just gonna come with five, 10 questions, ask them, get an answer, and then leave. You also will speak about yourself because the goal is to make an impression. So when you speak about yourself, the only thing you really want to prepare is to tell me about yourself question, and there's a very specific way that you

4:39can do that without sounding robotic. And that is the fit approach. FIT stands for favorite part, insights learned and transition made. And the way it works is that for each of the categories on your CV or journey, you want to have a fit statement for each one that you put together to create a tell me about yourself answer.

4:59I'll give you an example. Let's say your journey starts in education. Well, education's gonna be the first chapter you're gonna talk about. And let's say the next thing you wanna talk about is your first internship, and then it's your first full-time role. Well, each of these three is a part of the, tell me about yourself, that

5:14you wanna share with a fit statement for each, it's a chronological thing. So for example, if I'm answering a tell me about yourself, I'm gonna start with my education. So maybe I say a fit statement for that is, I studied communication in university, so that is just introducing it. Fit favorite part. My favorite part was.

5:32Interacting with people on the daily and being empathetic favorite part? The next thing is gonna be insights learned. I learned that this can be very impactful in organizations . That's the insight learned. And then for the transition, because of that and learning that through my studies, I decided to apply that in my first work experience, which

5:50was an internship at this nonprofit. So that's what you have those three things, FIT, for each category of your journey . Let me continue that example so you have an idea here. You wanna talk about that internship next? Right. So I transitioned to that internship now. My internship at that nonprofit, was great. My favorite part was interacting with our donors every day . Then the insight learned was I learned that it was very impactful to come to these conversations

6:13with data, not just marketing materials and so transition made. I decided to, in my next role, get into something more data driven . Let's say data analytics on the donor relations team at this other nonprofit, like, I'm just making stuff up to give you an idea here. And then your fit statement for the next one is gonna be, again, favorite

6:31part, insight learned and transition, and you're gonna keep doing that. Uh, I would say Max for two minutes. If you have a lot on your CV , maybe don't get into the details of each part of it but make sure you cover all the important things and tailor it . Okay. The second thing you want to prepare an answer to is why this

6:47company or organization, why this sector and why this role? So these are three of the same kind of question, and I want to help you answer each of them. So the way we're gonna do it is reason, evidence, and connection. And here's what it means. So reason, let's say, let's say I'm, I'm coffee chatting someone at Apple.

7:03Okay. And the sector then is tech, of course. Let's say, my reason is, I used to love new technologies as a kid. Then you wanna share evidence, which is the second piece. And for this, you can say, for example, I watched every Apple keynote, and this is actually true for me. I watched every Apple keynote ever since I was like nine years old up to today. They were always on my calendar , even before I had a calendar, I would have my parents remind me and we would put it up and I would watch the launch of iCloud

7:30and that was like Halloween for me as a kid, and then the third piece is connect. So you want to connect what you just shared to the organization, employer or role that you were working in. So for Apple for example, I connect it by saying, well, it's your keynote. So I know a lot about your products and services . I know their history, and I know where you're going with it because I have this intimate

7:48understanding of your vision, and I've had it ever since I was a kid. Literally. That could be a good example. So the idea is you wanna have reason, you wanna have evidence and you have connection. And that's it. You can prepare questions, and we'll get into this in a second, but in terms of what you will answer, that's all I want you to prepare because this is a

8:04conversation and you cannot build trust if you're coming to it like a recital. So even for these two that tell me about yourself and the why this. Don't have it written out as a paragraph that you memorize. Like you can have bullet points that you have on a paper next to you during the call, so spare yourself the time, make it less awkward, and just have

8:22bullet points of only these two. Okay, now let's get into the actual call and I will weave in some parts on how to prepare. So feel free to take some notes or rewatch this later. You can save the video, and maybe like it while you're at it, if you find this useful and if I'm providing you some value, because these take a lot of

8:36work and I would really appreciate it. Okay. Let's start with a small talk, this is the first five to 10 minutes and. This might blow your mind because it blew my mind when I read it in the book that I'm referencing but the way you wanna approach small talk is like an algorithm. Let me explain.

8:50You want to start? With not just like a, hi, how are you? But you wanna start with an open-ended. "Hi, how was your week". That was my go-to question. You can find your own, but the idea is that this question can be answered in different ways. If I am a super chatty person, I might answer by saying very specific things and walking you through my whole week and telling you about how I went to play basketball, or how I did this and that, so that gives you input as an algorithm to be

9:13like, okay, the person I'm coffee chatting is chatty, so I wanna match that energy. I wanna match that vibe throughout the whole call. This is why small talk is so important, but if the person answers by saying it was good, how was yours? Clearly, like, this person is a bit less chatty and so you might

9:27wanna speed through the small talk. Now, be authentic to yourself. Of course, but get a vibe and ask an open-ended question like that. And next it's time to get their intro. So you wanna ask, within this part of small talk, you wanna be like. What has been your path to joining Apple or whatever organization,

9:41ask for an intro, and then hopefully they will ask you back. And if not, you can weave it in subtly, like, that's awesome. Um, you know, I'd love to tell you about my background quickly and then you do it. And hopefully since you're going after them, you can tailor it a bit more. Like if they tell you about personal interests and hobbies or if they speak about their school a lot and you went to the same school, well, maybe in

9:58your intro you focus a bit more on those things, but so you match it. And once you've done that, you've had both of your intros. Now it's time to get into the second part, the q and a and the learning. And to do that, what I recommend is you just say. Thanks again for making the time to speak with me today.

10:11I prepared a few questions for you. I would love it if I can ask them now. It's a very polite way, it shows that you value their time and it shows that you came prepared not in a cringey, awkward way, where it's like I'm pulling up a paper and I'm reading you questions, but in an appreciative, confident way where it's like, thank

10:26you so much for making the time. Can I ask you the questions that I have done? And you guessed it. For this one, I have a framework for you as well. I'm taking out all the guessing work for you, like you literally just take, save this video. You might need to re-watch it or take notes. Now you write down these few frameworks for each part of the

10:40coffee chat, and you're all set. It's just bullet points on a paper. You follow it during your call and you're gonna be all good. Okay? So for the q and a learning part, it is called Tiara. And each letter here, T-I-A-R-A, just stands for the types of questions you can ask. Does that mean you're gonna go in this specific order?

10:56No. Does that mean you have to go cover all of these? Like the T, the I, the A and no, you might only focus on two of these. , But let's get into what each of these are. T stands for trends, and this is anything related to changes in their industry or in the world that they work in. And so for these questions, what you can ask is, for example, if I'm speaking to someone in sustainability, I might ask, I noticed there was this change

11:18in the metrics that the government requires in terms of sustainability. What do you think of these? How have they impacted you? And the idea with the trends, one is to show that you are generally aware of the space and. Valuing the expertise of the person that you are speaking to. But one very important thing here is that you don't wanna stump 'em.

11:35So don't be like, did you see the news about this? What do you think about that? Because if they didn't see that news, well lemme break it to you. They're not gonna be happy to be like, oh no, I didn't see it then it's just gonna be like, you made me feel bad and I don't have an answer

11:48for you, so it made it awkward. So whatever you're asking, give enough context first or ask it open-endedly. Okay. The next category of questions is insights, and this is about surprises, lesson learned. Any insights the person you're speaking to has gained from their experience and their journey. Again, the goal here is to build trust and connection to show them

12:06that you value their perspective. So you want to ask them, what have you learned so far by working on this many valuation models? Did anything surprise you recently in terms of how your clients are structuring their budgets for marketing? Okay. The next type of question you can ask is the A. And that's advice.

12:23So you wanna ask, you know, if you were in my shoes. Trying to get into this industry , what would you do? What would you look into? That's a great one because it really positions it as not like, please help me, but, you were in my shoes once. What do you remember doing? What worked for you? And it positions them as someone that is almost mentoring you . then we have resources, and this is not the first thing you should come in asking, but after you've spoken for a while , you might want to ask like, what are some podcasts or YouTube channels or newsletters that you're subscribed to or that you look into

12:55or that you read about that help you stay up to date and the last a is assignments. So you wanna ask them if they've had at work, any favorite projects that they've worked on, any notable achievements that they have, or you can ask them literally, what was the favorite project that you've worked on, your favorite client. And tell me about why, but these are really the categories, the

13:13TIARA framework, the categories of questions you can ask. And I recommend maybe having a bullet point of a question or two per category when you come in. I hope it helps you get out of this pressure because the TIARA framework, it takes five minutes to prep if you do it right. And if you did your research for a nice, like 15 minutes before the

13:29coffee chat, this takes five minutes. All right. Now I'm gonna share some general tips for the coffee chat itself, and then we're gonna get into ending the call and follow up steps to convert it into something valuable to you and a referral for a job or anything like that that you might want. one thing I will say is I want you to hold a pen and take handwritten notes. Like , hold a pen and try to visually bring it up if it's a zoom, because that communicates that you're taking notes, like if you're doing this

13:54or if I'm keep looking to the side. It. The other person like might assume you're taking notes, but they also don't know. But if you bring out a pen like that shows like I'm listening to you, and pause. Take moments of silence where you show that you're reflecting on the answer that the other person is giving you a moment.

14:10Sounds is not awkward. Silences show pause, they show reflection, they show valuing what the other person is saying. So have a pen and take pauses. So you wanna dress like the job you are interviewing for. This is not an interview, it's a coffee chair, right? But you wanna dress like the industry you are speaking to the person in. For example, if I am doing a coffee chat with a person in tech, I'm

14:32not gonna dress up in a full suit. I might not even do a dress shirt. I might just do a polo, because that is the industry they work in. A little tip here. You can look at people's LinkedIn profile picture. And that usually gives off the vibe for example, I work in tech. My LinkedIn profile pictures mean like a quarter sip. I know it's very cringey or stereotypical, but it's just,

14:50it's the truth of the matter. So it's like if I come into a coffee chat and the person that's coffee chatting me is wearing a full on suit, that's gonna look a bit off and we might not build rapport as easily. And it's, it's a subtle thing. Like I'm not coming in and being like, you're wearing suits.

15:02So we're like, I don't trust you. But we're just naturally. As humans, noticing these things subtly, and that's very important. You also don't wanna sound robotic, so like I said, only bullet points for the questions and the answers that you've prepared and reference to them naturally. And show excitement. Like I say this in all of my recruiting videos, again, yes, you want to be

15:21professional and polite, but that doesn't mean you are just overly formal. My perspective has been that just being a little bit more casual in the way you approach these conversations can go a long way because it helps you stand out. It shows that you're confident and it shows that you're personable because people. Want to work with people they like. And then lastly, I will say for your environment, you want to

15:42have a brightly lit environment. I tried to do this for this video. All right. Now, in terms of wrapping this up and turning this coffee chat and the connection and trust you've built into a result for you, here's how it's gonna go at the end of the call what you're going to do is say, I noticed

15:57that we're getting close to time. I really wanna thank you for the time you've taken to speak with me. I really appreciate the insights you shared. Something like that, you can say, you've given me a lot to think about. I'd love it if I can follow up with you afterwards if I have any other questions.

16:11Is it okay if I reach out or something like that? Just have them say yes, that it's okay for you to reach out, to show that you're polite, that you're respectful, and they're always gonna say yes. No one is gonna tell you no. And the goal here is to embody the Ben Franklin effect.

16:25And it's this psychology trick, and here's how it works. The idea is that when you ask for a small favor in the beginning, it makes it much easier to ask for multiple favors afterwards that are a bit bigger because small favors build liking, and that's the psychology concept behind it. So instead of asking for a large commitment right at first,

16:42like, can you please refer me? What you wanna do is ask for a tiny commitment right there and ask, is it okay if I follow up with questions? They're gonna say yes. And here's how you turn that into a result. After the call is over, what you're going to do a few days afterwards, is reach out and say, first off, thank you again for taking the

16:58time to speak with me last week. And you are going to show them that you have implemented the advice they've given you. So when you look at your notes, what is one thing they shared with you that you could have tried or implemented that you wanna voice back to them? Because that is where the magic is, and that is where you build the

17:12trust and connection if you tell someone after your coffee chat. Thank you so much for speaking to me last week. I really appreciated the insights you shared, and I really found your tip about this useful. that shows that you not only appreciated the time they took, but you listened and you took notes and you implemented, and that is magic for a mentor. Anyone that takes the time to coffee chat you, they're trying to help and

17:33the way you get the validation that they actually helped you is by hearing it back. And I guarantee you very, very few people do that. And here's how we get to actually landing a job or an opportunity through this if it's appropriate. If there is a role at the company that this person works at afterwards,

17:50you're gonna reach out again and say upon reflection, I wanna pursue this. Um, and I found this role specifically, and you can share a link and when you can ask would you have any insight or advice into how I should be going about my application? The idea here is that you are nudging them to volunteer help.

18:05You are not asking them for a referral directly yet you are nudging them slowly. Now this is what the book says again, the two Hour Job Search by Steve Dalton. And it's proven, it works. But what I did sometimes is I was a bit more direct because I knew there was a role coming up that I was really excited in. I knew the coffee chat went really well, and so in my messages sometimes even the first week's message I asked right away I was like, there's

18:26this role that I'm interested in. Do you have any advice in terms of writing the application as there anyone you recommend I reached out to or anything like that? Sometimes I even nudged it a bit more like, would you be open to, submitting a referral for me? It would make a big difference, and they did, but it's really a balancing act. You know, if you made it this far and you actually listened to this

18:43video , I imagine you're smart. I imagine you're confident, I imagine you're going to do well, and I trust you. I trust that if you've already listened to all of this, you are the kind of person that will know how to handle this. So I won't spoon feed you this part. You've done a great coffee chat by this point and you will know

19:00how to reply based on the vibes. But before you leave, one last thing I would tell you is that this video is part of a three video series on coffee chats. My first video was about how to find the right people to coffee chat and how to find their contact to actually. Initiate a coffee chat.

19:15The second video was how to make a request for a coffee chat. That always gets a yes. So if you're struggling to get people on those calls in the first place, now you know how to handle the call. Go to my video number, they're all in the description below, the second video will show you exactly how to get anyone to say yes to a coffee chat. The first video will be on how do you actually decide who to coffee

19:34chat, and what you're interested in, what companies to reach out to. And now with this video, you know exactly how to handle it. I hope this was helpful if you did like it. These videos take a lot of work to make I would really appreciate a like if you enjoyed the content, if you know anyone that's recruiting as well,

19:49please share the video with them. I post a lot of content about recruiting in general, but also doing well in your job, in your life, productivity and things like that. So if you wanna subscribe and be notified about any of those, please feel free to do so as well. But that's it for me, and I will see you in the next video.

20:03Good luck.