The framework for building AI startups from a product design genius

0:00what haven't we covered that we should pricing monetization how you make money yeah it's important oh yeah um the first thing I'll say is that one of my favorite lines about this is um I think it's originally Walt Disney quote which is um we don't make movies to make money we make money to make more movies and Facebook co-opted this and it's in the Little Red Book you know which is um we don't make services to make money we make money to make better services and I really believe that the the most successful companies in the world have that view I think that you can build an

0:37incredibly successful company that makes you millions of dollars that does not have that view you know that's kind of like the more mercenary approach but you kind of need to decide who you are before you start with your pricing strategy um [Music] so today we have a very special guest uh I would say on my Mount Rushmore of product people I only I think I only have two people that come to mind one is Scott belly who I've had on the Pod before Chief product officer of adobe uh he advised my last company um super super smart guy and the other way less known in in the internet world but

1:25people who know no Mike udak so I appreciate you coming on here and and lending your brain to get people to think bigger about startup ideas and spaces that you're interested in thanks dude that's um really kind of you to say it's true D it's true and and and it's I you know one part of the show I'm trying to do is like people who who might not have as much internet Fame like bring them and give them the platform um because dude you're a smart guy so so you yeah well you what uh what's on your mind today oh my God so many things you're okay so you asked me to come with

2:07startup ideas so what are the most annoying things that you've had to do in the last like week that have taken you a bunch of time that you feel like an AI could do you know with by just throwing some compute at it yeah do you have a list do you know what they are um I can probably I can probably figure that like can you find like cuz I I mean I can tell you off the top of my head right like I would pay an AI agent to book me a flight right I'd pay an AI agent to book me a hotel I'd pay an AI agent to book me a

2:46restaurant or find me a restaurant and I'd probably spend a lot of money on all three of those things yeah um and I think that those are all things that they could be really like tremendously good at so so it's funny you bring this up so I was writing this down for myself maybe I'll post this on my newsletter but I was thinking about okay what like what's a framework for thinking about creating AI Agents from a product perspective so here here's what I wrote down a single clear action instant feedback bounded decisions and zero friction so I wrote down smart agents that can actually think that can

3:30understand what you mean learn from mistakes explain decisions handle new new situations so then I wrote down by the way I I wasn't planning on sharing this so these are just some rough notes um so I was like okay how do you build a a smart agent that is going to be valuable start with one action that matters add llm understanding build tight feedback loops learn from every interaction and expand slowly what do you think about that I think that's exactly right and I like I think about okay so these are all things that I've had to do in the last week right I've also had to deal with scheduling which

4:02is really annoying and I was really struck I had a really amazing like personalized AI like llm experience recently where I used I was trying to find this investor I was talking to who's Japanese I remember that when I spoke with him he was in California and he's on the board of some Japanese Financial conglomerate but I couldn't think of the name um and so it's going to be a nightmare to find in in super human but I realized that there was ask Ai and I just said all of that and it came up with the wrong answer the first time and uh I said no no no the guy I'm

4:40talking about has a Japanese name and it came up with the right answer the second time and it was the first time that I've had like a really personalized like I'm just talking out loud trying to like find recall moment where like an AI actually really solved that problem for me and we use AI I'm building this thing called sling money right now and we use AI for a bunch of stuff for customer service for for financial crime um compliance reasons you know all sorts of things it automates repetitive tasks which are a real pain like going in we use this thing called um green light to

5:20do Ed like enhance due diligence on people so it goes and searches the web and then comes back with all the information you can just click one button you know it's great um and I I think that if you were to catalog all the things in your life which are like a real pain in the ass that fit your criteria it's a good list um you you could very quickly like train an llm on your past restaurant visits or your Google Maps history or your email to like learn about what kind of stuff you like and then it can just have you seen the new arc uh the new browser

5:56company browser Dia yeah yeah I think that's what it's called yeah know they've been kind of teasing it a little bit and it goes and it browses and it explains what it's doing you know you just type you're like hey you know do this for me and it's like oh okay I'm going to go do this I'm now going to click on this thing like why can't you just have that for like all the things that I have to do every day that's like a pain in the ass and I'd pay five bucks for each one of them yeah I mean I shouldn't be sharing this because like my team told

6:24me not to share this but I can't help myself is agencies are a really good business right now because it's super manual like it's humans doing things it's in a particular Niche like a good agency is focused on SAS fintech they're the best at you know just this one Niche and if you think about agencies like you know I wrote down in the same document I was like uh agencies like agent are the new agencies yeah for sure for sure if if I was trying to build an AI agent that I can sell to someone um of course we can you know come up with consumer ideas but

7:09like I'd probably start by just becoming of I'd either build or buy an agency quick break in the Pod to tell you a little bit about startup Empire so startup Empire is my private membership where it's a bunch of people like me like you who want to build out their startup ideas uh now they're looking for content to help accelerate that they're looking for potential co-founders they're looking for uh tutorials from people like me to come in and tell them how do you do email marketing how do you build an audience how do you go viral on Twitter all these different things that's exactly what startup Empire is

7:49and it's for people who want to start a startup but are looking for ideas or it's for people who have a startup but just they're not seeing the traction uh that they need so you can check out the link to Startup empire.co in the description that's so interesting so some of the best AI stuff I'm seeing right now um there are three that I think are really amazing so Greenlight is one which we use for fin crime another one is granola which is like a personal like note taking app um wait hold on Greenlight I haven't heard of this let me let me pull this out g r n l

8:25i t it's like a fin crime it's like a compliance let me share my screen real quick and we can we can learn together this fits into the same category of task where when you're running like a bank or a financial product you often have to do research on people to clear an alert or you have to like figure out what somebody's trying to do with a transaction or something like that and that's like a lot of really manual work and most of it now can just be completely automated dude this is crazy yeah this is crazy so I was their first customer Zing was their first customer

9:11um and we were like their design partner and they're they're crushing it now I mean just unbelievable yeah this is this this is going to be a huge business massive yeah okay what was this the other one so granola which is a note-taking app right I should say I'm invested in all three of these so okay um so this is an AI like notepad so it can listen to your meeting and then write notes for you but you can it's very cool because it um takes notes collaboratively with you so you can write notes and then it fills them in and if you want to restructure its notes

9:52as you go you can do that um it's super cool it's like an amazing like human machine hybrid how do you use it very well crafted um I use it for a subset of my meetings I don't like to have most of my meetings recorded but I I use it for like a subset of meetings and I take notes usually stuff which is like somebody's pitching a product or service or like a new partnership or something like that and I'll take a bunch of notes and then share it with the team you know like as part of followup that's like my main use case it looks beautiful just

10:30like yeah I've played with a a bunch of these apps and I don't know they haven't really stuck with me just because you know like you I'm like a the product needs to be tight um so but this this looks worth trying it's great and then the third one is called gradient AI there you go again naming is hard all these collisions and so these guys are building amazing customer service agents that um I don't know how much I can say but they dramatically outperform like you know intercom has AI built in these guys are dramatically outperforming intercom in all of the with all the customers that they have um the early

11:18stage I I used to work with well most of the team at at monzo which is like a Neo Bank in the UK the the CEO um the three founders were on the data science team there um and they're brilliant and they're building like again it's like a discreet very focused very tight thing that solves a very specific very manual problem have you seen Bland no so this is great yeah like right you look at it and it's like so basically for people listening uh not on YouTube um it's it's for it's AI phone calls basically um and you yeah tell Bland your use case sales customer support

12:10operations it's in any language which is crazy um and you can pick your voice uh teach it like an employee so there's intelligence there and it inte it integrates with your tools so you can like integrate it with Salesforce or whatever um I have a friend who contacted a company like BR Bland and was like I want to build the Bland for Germany for example and making that country up yeah and I think that there's a huge opportunity in taking some of these businesses partnering with them and being like I'll just do your you know Canadian arm and you know people think oh that's so small it's such a

12:53small way of thinking but like uh you know well simple which is the Robin Hood of Canada still like a three and a half billion dollar company you know for sure there there's opportunity in geographies yeah for sure for sure for sure this is super cool this is super cool there's another one uh I invested in recently it's a YC company that is doing um debt AI debt collection which I would have thought was like a terrible idea I can't think of the name off the top of my head but the way the guy explained it which I thought was really amazing was that um they like the best

13:30debt collectors on the phone are actually like deeply uh that's it do Mo um yeah the fourth one domu uh or the second one yeah um they do sales and stuff too but he's like they're just like deeply empathetic and thoughtful and they say things like oh well you have a th you owe $1,000 do you think you could afford to do $100 right now or $150 right now and they're like actually very kind and it's hard to it's hard to get that kind of kindness maybe consistently out of people and but there's like an automatable script there and you can learn a lot um I think they're doing incredibly

14:11well like incredibly well um and I just think again there's just like a million of these kind of tasks out there that either you experience as a consumer or or a company goes through that you can just like build a very highly customized AI engine around with a really tight feedback loop and just crush it yeah and you could I mean you could just open up for example Claude and say uh you know list me all the pain points in social media management yeah right and it'll give you some ideas yeah so I'm just you know I'll just read a few content creation and scheduling consistently producing engaging high

15:11quality content across multiple platforms managing content Cal and approval workflows Community Management so managing crisis communication negative feedback like each of these could be multiple agents for sure creating platform specific formats I mean you know brilliant like give it the assets and tell it to like pump out all the jams across all the platforms right and how how do you think about because you know I know you've built consumer like earlier in your career you a really consumer like you were Blip TV back in the day which I think is now owned by Disney Facebook like can't get more consumer than that you were at Facebook

15:56I think running their ads I did ads there and I did um sharing so like photos video and everything yeah right so how do you think you know that yeah how how should people think about should I build a b Toc thing or a B2B thing um I'll tell you the way that I think about it um is um I think B Toc is often like a bigger opportunity can scale to be really massive but go to market and finding product Market fit and then growing the thing is really really hard and you have to catch lightning in a bottle and your odds of failure are much higher the size

16:37of success could be larger I mean depending on what you choose to do you know um so there you're optimizing for like high dynamic range and there are a lot of things that are like super Difficult about it I think B2B you know the dynamic range is not as large like you can go to a person and say hey tell me about your problems okay cool I'm going to build this thing that looks like this if I do and and like does this thing for you and can you just tell me if if I do that like will you pay me for it how much and then you can

17:14like go and talk to a 100 other people and get their views then you can like build the thing that they tell you to build as long as you're good at interviewing people and sell it and make money and it's great it it's amazing um and so I think that you can build like a it's like a tighter range if that makes sense like a tighter range of outcomes you're less likely to fall you know face first and just like face plant into the dirt um but you're also probably not going to create like a hundred billion dollar company in doing that you know totally if if you want to do that you

17:47got to go consumer I think totally consumer is more glor in consumer yeah like there's also something interesting about like hitting your face against the dirt kind of like it hurts but it also feels nice in a way like people who do consumer are sick like that yeah you know I mean really I do you got to iterate and iterate and iterate I mean I I've been building this thing we're trying to build like what'sapp for money or a global venmo you know we've been building for two and a half years is super difficult you know you iterate you keep building and then you know maybe you have a moment we had

18:24a moment last week we like suddenly just went viral uh in Kenya and our graph just went right angle straight up but you know who knows whether or not that would have happened or not happened and you know um you just spend a lot of time kind of like trying to find that thing and you may never find it 100% okay and and going back to our AI agent world so I think a lot of people listening to this like they want to get their hands dirty um they see the opportunity they're like you we're sharing all these products they're like yes yes this is cool this is cool but they

19:03don't they don't know like should I should I build a granola competitor should I build on top of you know one of these platforms like how how should people think about what startup idea to pick like do you have a framework for that like why did you pick sling versus the hundred other you know so I have a framework it might be different than other people's framework so my the way that I ended up deciding to do this thing was I I did this kind of like regret minimization exercise so I imagined myself I kind of like discovered this thing right which is I sent usdc on salana from the UK to

19:47California and the transfer was instant and free and everything else about it sucked but I was like oh okay like I know how to fix all those other things and then like you suddenly realize oh wow you can build like a global venmo on top of this you can build WhatsApp for money on top of this this could be huge this could be a multi-billion user product it's going to be really hard to build you might fall flat on your face you know and so like I've got three kids you know how is this gonna go um and so I imagined myself five or 10 years in

20:16the future and I imagined every possible like logic Branch so like I don't do this somebody else does it and they succeed how am I going to feel I'm going to feel kind of shitty because that should you know I I would have felt like oh that should have been me I I don't do it and somebody else does it and they fail how am I going to feel oh well I'm still going to feel bad because I would always wonder whether or not I could have made it work okay what if I do it and I fall flat on my face and I fail how am I going to feel well you know

20:48what the default in this thing is failure like if you if you try to build a really big consumer thing and you take a really big swing you're going to fail nine times out of 10 you know so like there there's no shame in that it'll be painful it'll sting but like you say you know there's also like a certain joy in it um and if I do it and it works it's going to be great and so like I you know and it's an idea that I deeply care about it's a thing that I think is like really important for the world I think if everyone in the world can like send

21:17money to everyone else in the world instantly and like for free or almost for free like that's a transformative thing that will literally change the world and so it also feels like a worthwhile Endeavor like it feels like a nice thing to spend you know 3 to 10 years of your life on right um which I think is really important because like if it were just like you know selling like candy or like food coloring that like causes cancer or whatever or or like you know plastic clothing I think that even if it worked I would feel really shitty about myself and so that I think really truly

21:56matters a lot at least to me um I like to find meaning in my work you know positive meaning in my work um and I so I I I that's how I ended up doing this and I've worked on food delivery I've worked on banking I've worked on you know social media sharing I worked on Advertising I think you can kind of like you know when we worked on ads like you know a lot of people were like advertising is bad and we were like no no no no no advertising is good because it helps connect people who are building a valuable thing with people who need

22:30that thing as efficiently as possible and that's actually like a service which makes the world a better place you know and I think you can think about a lot of things in a way that you know creates value and doesn't destroy value um the question is whether or not you're going to enjoy it whether or not you're going to love it whether or not you're going to get up every morning and and want to work on it for maybe a long time yeah and I think I think that that last part is probably the most important part when I look back at all the products I worked on the best

23:03the most successful products were the products that I I cared about the most even though I didn't have high expectations that it was actually going to work out the ones that I actually was like oh my God there's a huge Market opportunity here and like I'm gonna sell it to you know Adobe uh and you know I'm like trying to time something that that hasn't worked out for me person L quick ad break let me tell you about a business I invested in it's called boring marketing.com so a few years ago I met this group of people that were some of the best SEO experts in the world they were behind getting

23:44some of the biggest companies found on Google and the secret sauce is they've got a set of technology and AI that could help you outrank your competition so for my own businesses I wanted that I didn't want to have to r on Mark Zuckerberg I didn't want to depend on ads to drive customers to my businesses I wanted to rank high in Google that's why I like SEO and that's why I use boring marketing.com and that's why I invested in it they're so confident in their approach that they offer a 30-day Sprint with 100% money back guarantee who does that nowadays so check it out highly recommend boring marketing.com

24:22yeah I feel you man I think that like I'm not the sort of person other people may be like this maybe you know like I'm just not the sort of person who is like good at that kind of like um I I don't know like mercenary business thing where it's like oh I see a lot of people with dirty cars around I want to build a car wash it's just like not the way that I think about things like I think about like wanting to create new things or like interesting puzzles or gifts that you can give people or whatever and joy you can get from the work um I get bored

24:59otherwise you know it's like not interesting like oh you know sure maybe it's a nice way of making some money but like ultimately who cares uh in AI startup land and also in financial services it's a extremely competitive space right you're yeah the smartest people in the world are going after this space how much do you as a product person think about competition and and like when you're when you're building out your product road map are you like mapping it to how the the competitors work how should people think about it uh not directly but I do think that like there was a point in my career when

25:35I felt really bad about copying anything I was like oh no you have to come up with everything yourself and like I no longer believe that at all like I think there are just certain Primitives or certain ideas that become commonplace and like should be replicated by everyone and you have to be like you know it's like impossible that you're going to come up with all of those yourself and so it's like a big world you know um and so I think you have to watch what all your competitors are doing and other people in adjacent spaces and when they do something really great or something

26:11really brilliant be like oh okay like we missed that or we should have prioritized that earlier all right well let's do that and I and the way that I think about that now is like these are just Primitives like if somebody had said well I'm not willing to copy the wheel you like that would be really stupid like if the only person who could ever produce a wheel is like the person who originally conceived of it we we would all just be in the Dark Ages you know um so I think that it you have to kind of like look around and see what all the smart people are doing

26:42and have a deep respect for competition and the noise around you um while and this is so important and I'm curious your view on this right is like while not um getting pulled in a million Direction you still have to be true to your vision and the thing that you want to see created in the world and you you know you can't just be like oh oh that's a shiny thing over there it seems to be doing well let's change what we're doing and change the thing that we want to exist in the world because of that and it's a balance and I you know I I

27:16struggle with that balance all the time of like oh well there are a million things I want to build how do I pick the two that are like the most important and true to what we're trying to accomplish you know yeah I mean I agree I think it's it's like like everything in life balance is really important and the way I think about it is I do keep tabs on competition and yeah I I don't have a running list of what the competitors are doing but I have a mental running list like I literally do in my head I'm like competitor X is doing why um I look at

27:51their their Twitter accounts I follow them on Twitter um and but I I I try not to get sucked in with um oh my God they just launched this thing it's really smart and then cuz you don't want to be a me too uh product builder for sure for sure yeah yeah and I think that you have to have a consistent narrative and a consist like a consistent narrative internally and externally and and yes in yourself as a human about what you're building and what you're trying to accomplish too 100% okay and you know you said you went you're going viral in in Kenya like you know how how do you

28:34think about you know once you've built the product getting people to the actual product you know is and know and I know you you've you know with with Facebook I mean you attracted millions or hundreds of millions of people to the to the platform directly or indirectly is this you know if you're trying to build an AI startup let's say you know do you go and like we've done you know you you you you map out the the problem you build a landing page you know like what how do you think about you know you build a product how do you think about getting people to the actual product

29:11yeah yeah well I I think like I mean I used to work on ads and I I um think that there was probably a golden age in which the answer would have been like you know Target exactly the right message at exactly the right people on Facebook find the like 3,400 people who are early adopters and just like get it in front of them 15 times I'm not sure that's the thing anymore um I think that the auction has gotten saturated and tracking has become worse and like all that kind of stuff I think that like you know Twitter and Linkedin and podcasts and everything are probably the way to

29:48do it and I think you know the way that we've done it so far is just to kind of like build build in public sort of I think that probably means like a specific thing where like the letters are capitalized or whatever but we've just been like from the very earliest time we could we introduced the product we we kind of like shipped it with a wait list and then people would come to us and be like oh can I try it or our friends would ask to try it and we'd let them in and then we'd get their feedback and sometimes it was really broken and

30:17like even now people ask me like when did you launch and I'm like I don't know like what do you even mean by launch I don't know what that means you know do you mean like the first time we were it App Store do you mean when we started to remove Weight lists do you mean when like you know something happened and we were in a bunch of WhatsApp groups and went viral because we've been in some stage of that thing in a bunch of places around the world for like a year and a half two years now and the company's only two and a half years old we've been

30:46talking about it we've been posting screenshots and animations and finding our people around the world who are like interested in it and like helping them find us so that like before we went viral in Kenya we had like a few hundred people there who loved the product already and like my co-founder went down to Nairobi and gave a talk at a conference and and it all happened kind of like when he was down there and a couple other people from the team and there were people at the conference coming up to him and being like I'm so proud of you like I feel like I built this thing with you you

31:21know like I'm like couldn't happen to a better product or whatever you know and they they like I think you know felt like they helped us build it and hopefully they continue to feel that way because we kind of found each other as we were creating this thing and I I now think that that's like the way and I I I think even like the presidential election like the US presidential election kind of shows that too like you know the difference between running a bunch of ads the old-fashioned way versus like being out there and mixing it up in you know online n forums in in an

31:59interactive way just like a huge difference 100% 100% yeah I started thinking about short form video and how do you like reverse engineer the viral Tik Tok yeah so building for mobile specifically or or AI an AI startup like thinking about okay I need to give something to this group of micro influencers that is going to get them to create a 30 second or 15 second clip that is you know going to go viral so what is that product and then reverse engineering that that's been really helpful in terms of like creating an AI startup that gets like millions of views and downloads yeah I I think that

32:48totally works and you know it it all depends on who your audien is like who you're trying to reach and what you're trying to do a bunch of them are going to be on Tik Tok and like you know that's a great way to get them into the funnel and you can just like watch the top 10 Clips at any given time and be like okay I'm going to like emulate this format I know that the algorithm likes this right now and I know a lot of people who are really successful in doing that right now if you want to Target like techie people you probably

33:14want to do it on Twitter X if you want to Target salesp people you probably want to do it on LinkedIn you know like it it just you know and there's a format and there's a way of thinking and a way of talking and a way of interacting which is like native to those platforms and you have to behave that way to be successful in them okay I want to end on I think I'm going to name this episode something around like the framework for starting an AI startup so we've covered we've covered kind of ideas and coming up with ideas we covered some really cool

33:48startups uh like granola and how they're doing it um we covered user acquisition we've covered competition what haven't we covered that we should pricing monetization how you make money yeah it's important oh yeah um the first thing I'll say is that one of my favorite lines about this is um I think it's originally Walt Disney quote which is um we don't make movies to make money we make money to make more movies and Facebook co-opted this and it's in the Little Red Book you know which is um we don't make services to make money we make money to make better services and I really believe that the the most

34:30successful companies in the world have that view I think that you can build an incredibly successful company that makes you millions of dollars that does not have that view you know that's kind of like the more mercenary approach but you kind of need to decide who you are but before you start with your pricing strategy um but putting that aside for a moment I think you just with an AI company it feels really clear to me that you look at the number the amount of human input that you're saving and the cost of that human input and I mean total cost I mean salary emotional damage that you have to

35:05sustain and doing the work you know all of that stuff and and and by the way those two things are very important because like you know some things in the world are really really annoying but only take like five or 10 minutes but if you automate them away I'll pay more than the time saved because of the emotional damage you're saving me or the frustration that you're saving me right so you have to kind of like apply that lens or that adjustment Factor and then um and then I think you just apply a discount like okay like I just saved you $100,000 worth of Labor $50,000 worth of

35:40emotional damage 150 Grand okay it's a machine doing it so I'm going to price that at a 75% discount or a 50% discount or an 80% discount yeah and and that makes it like a no-brainer offer which is kind of the goal right I think so yeah and maybe you could do maybe you get away with an 80% discount I don't know sorry a 20% discount charge 80% I don't know but I I assume it isn't that bad to do 50 are you of the belief to start you know you can you know people say you can always go down on price you can never go up

36:16what's your thought on on on that I believe you can go up but I think you need to be thoughtful about it so when I was working at monzo which is like a big Neo Bank in the UK uh we had a we had a bunch of problems I mean one was that we were a regulated bank and people didn't think of us as a bank so you're you have the you have all the downside of being a bank with n of The Upside um and another problem was that we just didn't charge quite enough money like we didn't have enough things that made money and that was kind of

36:46okay before covid but then our number one Revenue stream was actually people using their debit cards overseas and The Interchange you get from that and that went away overnight and we were totally screwed uh um and I remember spending weeks on a spreadsheet um with the finance team going through every line item and we knew that we had a gap that we had to fill trying to figure out how to fill the Gap and um we were terrified of uh what was going to happen when we started charging for like you know your fourth ATM withdrawal and what was going to happen when we started charging for

37:20replacement cards and you know we had a list of things um it was totally fine it was completely fine nobody cared people loved the product like maybe a few people complained or whatever but like honestly like everybody just thought it was really fair and they were like oh we've been getting this thing basically for free this whole time and we really appreciate it and um yeah okay that seems cool like if I use the ATM for a third time I'll I'll pay a little fee you know and that has really stuck with me like that lesson like if you build a thing which is like beautiful

37:55and people love and has a place in their life you can charge more for it later and um you know that goes against conventional wisdom and I think if you have that knowledge uh it's a secret weapon because it's easier to get distribution for something that costs less yeah and there's I mean I remember Uber for example like when we first started using Uber in Uber and Lyft and SF when it first came out it was like well not the black cars but it was it was cheap like I remember you know they basically got us hooked on the product and we once we were hooked

38:33and we were in the network then we're like okay you know they were like okay let's see if we can charge 10% more 20% more 30% more I think customers customers don't remember your your pricing they remember the value right I agree yeah I agree that's exactly right and if you create Great Value you can then find the efficient Frontier of your pricing over time that's it and probably use AI to help figure that out too for sure for sure absolutely okay okay one I just have to ask I know I know you know before we leave I know you spent some time with Mark Zuckerberg what do you

39:11what do you think Mark Zuckerberg is thinking about with AI and this whole AI world does he you know yeah what's going through his mind I don't know I mean I think that he's one of the smartest most determined most principled people people I know you know um and and deeply thoughtful and um he has a quality very few people have which is you know he's also kind of fearless you know he like once he makes a decision about a thing you know he he kind of goes all in while still being open to input on the other side you know he's he's I guess I'm saying he's very

39:47good at what he does um I think that the strategy that they have right now of like open sourcing a bunch of models you know makes a ton of sense it's like the right strategic move if you're in their position um you're kind of like salting the Earth in a in a pretty meaningful way you know giving everybody access to this thing um instead of so that there's no longer a war between like two or three or four Titans it's just like okay we're all in this together you know um this is very smart um and we'll see I think it's going to become I think that one of the you know

40:24really significant advantages that Facebook has and again this is one of the reasons why um Distributing the models in this way makes so much sense is um you know Facebook has one of the largest permissioned training sets in the world um it's not clear whether or not open AI really can train on all of the things that they train on um there's a really great clip I think of their their former um CTO you know being asked about whether or not they trained on YouTube and you know she just goes like Oh you know like tot face that she makes and like you know Facebook actually has

41:03a right to like you know has just like a giant Content Library um so I think that there's a lot of stuff that they're doing which you know takes real account of like what are our strengths and what are our weaknesses as an organization here all right let's change the landscape around us to favor us with our set of advantages and um you know I I think it you know they're doing a very good job at it um very good friend of mine is actually running um generative AI generative AI there now um who I think is totally brilliant cool yeah um Mike thanks for coming on people if you

41:46enjoyed this episode please like comment subscribe so uh so we know that you enjoy this type of stuff you know so um I'll see you in the coms comment section Mike where could people get to know you better uh my website is h.com ud.com uh and I'm mudac on Twitter and uh sling domoney sling money we'll include both those in the description and uh yeah go check it out hope you learned something valuable I know you did and Mike I'll see you uh I'll see you soon sounds good thanks Craig thank you cheers B [Music]