I Tested EVERY Hyped AI Tool - I ONLY Kept Using These

0:00So today we're going to go over the AI tools that are people are talking about on X and we're going to talk about if it's overrated or underrated. Okay, this is going to be spicy. Yeah, we we'll be a little spicy. Like if NE somehow adds an affiliate. I don't know if they have an affiliate,

0:17but if they do, it's over. It's over, dude. Please tell me they have one. They make Oh, yes. They're going to make so much money for as of recording this. It's underrated, but we're gonna look back on this video in six months and be like, why were we talking about Madness? Claude Code underrated.

0:39Extremely underrated. Which is crazy cuz it's, you know, it's all over my feed right now. Everyone's talking about it. I think, yeah, Claude Code, if you're a non-technical person, is more daunting, but just just try. You're not going to single prompt a 50K a month SAS. But I do believe that we live in a world that it's completely possible to use things like cursor, to use some of these tools, to develop something that you can make $50,000 a month for minimum. If there was any time to start something that has the slightest chance of being successful, there's no better

1:17time than today. [Music] Okay. So, I share my screen and Okay, we'll do tools and you tell me. Let's start. First tool. N um overrated or underrated, Greg? I think uh well, what do you think? I think underrated only because if you know what you're doing, you can do well. But if you have like, you know, there's not an ounce of like like if you don't use modern tools, like you're not a heavy Google Drive user, you're not on Slack always or you're not like setting up automations, email automation, you haven't used Zapier before, then yeah, this is basically useless. And I think

2:07we've all been seeing it on Twitter. It's the new drop shipping. Like I actually have like if any somehow adds an affiliate, I don't know if they have an affiliate, but if they do, it's over. It's over, dude. Like it's Please tell me they have one. They make Oh, yes. They're going to make so much money. So yeah, this is definitely the new Shopify cuz I see everyone talk about automation. So I think in that sense it's overrated, but

2:33I have a feeling you think otherwise. Well, here's my take cuz you come at it from like an a developer perspective. So you you look at it and you're like, "Yeah, I can go ahead and make these these charts myself. I I'll just, you know, even if even if you don't want to do yourself, you go to chat GBT, you'll get the JSON, you'll copy paste and copy and paste." But for the vast majority of people, they copy these workflows and they don't work for them or something's broken or they don't know how to do it. So I think for the vast

3:00majority of people, it's overrated. Makes sense. Um, but I do think for like somewhat technical or technical people, it's underrated. Now I get that I call it non-technical and technical organizations like so you might not be physically writing code but like you understand like uh technical concept. So I do agree but yeah if they somehow like start promoting this and do what Shopify did this is a billion dollar company. Um I we have the tab here. We're actually playing with it. You said so basically

3:32spring string or spring string. Yeah. Sorry I have the faster at least. Um, so they're built on top of Pipe Drive, which is basically an NAN competitor, I'm assuming. Exactly. So I feel like what String is doing, I'm not involved in the company in any way, but do you have to disclose that a lot nowadays with I don't know. Well, the comment section is always like, "Oh, you're cuz I just did a tutorial on String and people were like, "This is a paid thing." And I was like, "No, I literally messaged the founder like the night before and I was like, I saw your product and I think

4:04it's really cool." And I actually had tweeted about that the future of automation is prompt to automation just because I think that people don't want to sit and make workflows all day, especially like non-technical people. No, that makes sense. So, and I can vouch that you probably messaged him cuz that's how I hopped on the channel. You literally messaged me and I'm like, and I thought it was a

4:24scam at first. It was someone else. So, uh I can vouch but uh I messaged him the night before. He was like, I'm leaving to Europe for vacation. Uh but if you want to hop on tomorrow morning, let's do it. I hop on. So founder mode. Serious. Okay. Anyways, point is uh I think string.com although parts of it are janky. Like they need it. It is an alpha for Yeah. They they did they do mention

4:49alpha to that point. Yeah. So yeah. And by the way, I respect him in the tutorial he did with me. He basically was like, "Yeah, parts of it are janky." Like I respect founders of AI companies that are saying like stuff doesn't work all the time. Point is, I think that like if you start using things like string.com and you start creating these automations, like so much is going to unlock in your brain for how to like save time, make money that I

5:13think string.com is actually underrated. Um, and I hope that, you know, the NAND ends of the world actually implement this. Yeah, I think it'd be it'd be very powerful if they did. And I don't see why they couldn't. They they're they're so profitable. Real quick, I need to tell you about something that's helping me sleep better at night as an entrepreneur. I was running multiple companies with money scattered everywhere, zero spending visibility and making growth decisions pretty blind. I knew there had to be a better way and my friend told me about Bracks. So, I switched and now I have mission control for every dollar. spend management and

5:57visibility, virtual cards for my team, and earning cash from the same day treasury product. I was leaving so much money on the table, but not anymore. I have a financial operating system for our businesses to make decisions so I can spend smarter and move faster. And it's been a total game changer. I'm loving Brex so much. I reached out to

6:23them and asked them to sponsor the pod. If you're building something real, you need a complete financial operating system like Brex. It'll help you sleep better, too. And you can't be mad at that. Um, Lindy.ai seems like to be something similar, but fair to say it's a more marketing. Yeah, it's it's I mean, NAN is marketing in a lot of ways. Um, but Lindy, what I like about Lindy underrated is that it has the templates. So, it's got like I don't know 100 plus templates that will be like okay you want to create like an automated email uh you know email outreach agent we're going to go and do you press a button

7:06you can copy and paste that template and it works for you and then you know for me why I think it's underrated is I love seeing templates cuz it's like it gives me ideas around like okay maybe I wouldn't use it for this use case but I would use it for that use case. That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so I need to try out Lindy uh for some marketing stuff cuz uh I'm terrible at that. I just know

7:29how to make content. Uh Claude Code underrated. Extremely underrated, which is crazy cuz it's, you know, it's all over my feed right now. Everyone's talking about it. But man, like I like if I had to pick one for the rest of my life. Let's say like AI just stagnates here for for the end of time and you told me cursor winter all these tools and I should probably add that to the list. Who would

7:54you uh stick with? It's cloud code. It is the first time and I and I showed an example here earlier while we were chatting. um um you know like and and there have been a lot of videos on like how to prompt creating an MD file like having a PRD and giving that as context and those skills are important and and I'm glad people are thinking like that methodically like like a product like a product person. I actually want to even talk about GitHub later just give a simple crash course crash course for

8:25most people understand how to use it. But Claude Code essentially showed us that uh they could build an agent that does all of that. So it'll have it'll track its own tasks. It builds out a to-do list. It has its own plan. It executes on that. It writes tests. Most developers, I would say, or most indie hackers, I would say, hate writing tests. I hate writing tests, but it's necessary. Uh sometimes, but you should still do it. It's safe, right? You feel

8:53good about the product you're building. Claude Code does it automatically, right? So, in my opinion, if you're a developer and you haven't at least even tried Claude Code, what are you doing? Yeah. And if even if you're not, please just like there's tons of tutorials. I'm sure Riley has a video like Riley always has a Claude or Cursor video. Like there's some video there. I would spin up cursor, winerf, whatever you like and use cloud code because it's truly in my opinion um the tr the truest form of

9:23agentic coding we've ever experienced. So for a lot of people who are non-technical even going into cursor is daunting. Your your suggestion is non-technical people should spin up something like cursor get cloud code. If every if it was easy everybody would have done it right. Like honestly like I know it's difficult and I speak from a place where like like these tools are easy to me but I just I think you you would do your disser yourself a disservice to not try at least try and if you get stuck guess what you could use to figure out what to do next AI right so yes the tools are not built for

10:03uh non-technical people but I would still use it and one thing that's exciting too about claude code is they released They they also released an SDK. So, a lot of like the AI platforms can now use Claude Code's agent instead of building their own. And I was at the Claude Code conference and when I was talking with their team, they essentially were like, "Yeah, we're going to advise like a lot of these AI agent like especially coding agent builders to just use our agent cuz in a respectful sense, they're basically like we'll smoke you like our agent will always be better, right?" And I think Claude has kind of proven and won and

10:40owns the sphere of like programming. So I wouldn't be surprised if all the vibe coding tools and like any coding tool like Devon code rabbit the lovables the temples the bolts Figma make hostinger air table all of them anything regarding code I I do see a near future where they probably just implement all this cuz why go against researchers who are now

11:02valued at like what $100 million a year. So I think yeah cloud code if you're a nontechnical person is more daunting but just just try. Okay. So under Yeah, I agree with you by the way. Underrated for both technical people and nontechnical people. Yeah. Somehow cuz once you get it it's and like there's this I have a little graph here. I mean it wouldn't be a Ross Mike Greg video if there's no graph. And I would put like Claude somewhere claude code somewhere here where it is difficult right? It is difficult to use. It's not the cleanest UX. They want you to use a terminal and a terminal can be

11:38terrifying, but there's nothing like it. So, I would put Cloud Code right here. Mhm. By the way, you know what we should add to this list? This is the last one. I can't believe we didn't think about it. What did I miss? MCP. Oh no. Oh no. You know, you pissed my people off. Uh, I know. I pissed thousands of people off with my takes on MCP, but we'll get to

12:03that uh towards the end of the episode. Um and then yeah, so and then there's these new class of tools. I haven't used Devon. So Devon and Code Rabbit. Okay. So I would basically I would say these two are like the closest thing to an actual assistant. So Devon and Code Rabbit are meant for you to build projects from scratch. Show me Show me

12:28Devon and Code Rabbit. Yeah, I can. So, I'll start with Devon cuz I was been actively using it. So, so Devon looks like this. And first you think, oh, this is like, you know, any of the Vibe coding tools, but it's actually meant to like be integrated with like an existing codebase. And here's the powerful thing. There are three powerful things about um Devon. First they have this thing called deep wiki which basically is like you can add like whatever code base is in your kit github right so like you can imagine for like someone building a serious project you connect your repo and then I don't know how the does it

13:07but it contextualizes your entire project and breaks down exactly how it works and I can't explain to you how valuable this is for anyone building something serious you might not even be technical But reading this document will actually help you understand how this system was architected, right? Like for example, um, by the way, for those looking at this, this is like a app I I made for a few friends. And essentially what it does is it helps you create Apple passes for like your community. And it breaks down here how passes are created. And it'll tell you here for Apple Pascer implementation device registration pass update. See the web. So, it knows that I

13:50used an external service, Apple Pass, and it tells me if I click here, I can read more about it. And then there's diagrams explaining how the APIs work, what the flow is, like what endpoint each, like for example, device registration endpoint. It tells me it's this one right here. shows you even the back and forth like for anyone in an organization um or even like maybe a small team like three or four people building something serious this alone is worth however much Devon is charging. So this is number one. Number two, and this is also one of my favorite features, is you can like start a session, and you

14:31can basically tell it to either fix a bug, add a feature, um, and you can run multiple of these. But here's the I think here's what's special about this is they have integrations. If I go to settings and integrations, you can integrate Slack and linear. And like in your linear ticket, like let's say you

14:50have a PM write out all the features. And this is where I think yes it's for software engineer teams but even a nontechnical person in a team can use this like imagine you have a detailed spec on linear on what this new feature needs to be. You can literally add Devon build this and it will take all the linear information and it will start to build a feature and then it'll create a PR on GitHub and I can show you one where I had an issue and I asked it to fix it and I can literally can I click here? It literally wrote the PR and mind

15:23you uh files changed. It's one simple change. It was just removing this line. But I spent hours trying to figure out why is this not working. We've all been there. So, so like and like the PR is detail like there's reviews. I also use code rabbit as well and then it shows my versell deployment and then I merged it in. So, it's a different class, but might I say probably the most useful like the Devons and the Code Rabbits and Code Rabbit is is somewhat similar like it does reviews and stuff like this. I don't know if they fully have this type of feature. Um, but I would say they're

16:01sort of in the same realm and they're actual assistants. And this for me like if I was running if I wanted to build something serious and I was working with two three people I think something like this can actually be used by a product person who maybe knows how to write like a product document and they can ship features using Devon and I can review the code and that's what a lot of my work has been at at like now I I review more code than I write to be honest like

16:30I'll I'll let Cloud Code do its thing. I'll let Devon review like do something here and I'm just trying to understand what it's done and if it makes sense. If it makes sense, I'll let it I'll merge it. If not, I hold it back. So, um, and they have like a I think a you pay $20

16:45one time and then it's pay as you go. So, you know, just try it out. $20 little fun. I think it's underrated. Um, it's not for everybody, but you won't know till you try. Like, that's fair. And Code Rabbit. Yeah. So, Code Rabbit is in the same realm like these are like the assistant agents. I haven't given it a full spin, but where I've used code rabbit before is when you're doing these PRs p pull requests and I'll explain it when we get

17:12into like the mini GitHub crash course. It reviews your code and there's uh actually maybe I can find the uh tweet uh code with so there's this YouTuber called code with Antonio super G guy. He is like the reason why most dev YouTubers no longer do like four or five hour tutorial videos. He's just the best at it. And we've all decided that he just runs this space. And what's interesting is he tweeted this. He said, "In the last 90 days, I released three courses which Code Rabbit reviewed, 77 pull requests, left 42 comments, found 66 issues, and left 61 suggestions for me. Can can I even say that I develop

17:54solo anymore? Just install it already." Damn. So, and and it's and it's and the thing is with Code Rabbit, what's cool is it'll identify an issue and let's say cuz someone I can already imagine someone like, "But I'm not technical." It'll give you a prompt to give whatever agent you're using to fix it,

18:12context, code snippet, and everything. Right. So, like, and when I tell you that Antonio is a G, like if I like I just need to show you the stuff he builds, Greg, cuz uh I feel like I'd appreciate it. He built a lovable cone the other day. Like, and he does this himself like full on $2 billion business. He built it

18:33himself. Like, and he goes line by line. So, like if you're someone who wants to learn how to code, like he literally takes you like like this is what 10 hours and it's free. And it's free. Yeah. It's it literally like it's free. Like he gives you everything and he and he and he talks pretty slow so you're not going to miss anything. He's not a fast talker like me. Like so if someone like this who's and all his videos are like 10 hours. Uh what's this one? 1 hour 46. This is actually

19:05his shortest video. 11 hours, 8 hours. Dude, is this this is crazy. Yeah. And this all free, bro. Like this is all free. Like he like we've I told you as like like developer YouTubers, we have all decided that we will never do a video like this cuz you don't beat this, right? So if he thinks it's changed his workflow um like 66 issues, especially in a production code base, like this is serious, right? Like I know vibe coding is exciting and you could build your own project but if you plan on having real users which I hope you do security is something serious you have to talk about

19:43the you know your project actually working users information being safe payments being safe. Um and yeah so I would say the code rabbits and the devans of the world are super underrated. All right let's move on. By the way we should give a disclosure. You do work at tempo. So I do work at tempo. So, I'm biased. Pay, you know, I get a paycheck every

20:03two weeks. Yeah. Um, but with that being said, what do you think? Actually, I'm I'm curious. I put Bolt, Lovable, and Tempo all in one line, even though I think Tempo's slightly different, but maybe that's the bias talking. I haven't used Tempo to be honest, so I can't rate it, but uh so I'm I'm leaving that out of

20:23there. Okay. Um to me both Bolt and Lovable are are very similar. Yeah. So um I mean if you haven't tried Bolt and Lovable, it's underrated. Yeah. If you have tried Bol Bolt and Lovable, it's overrated if you don't know how to prompt properly and it's underrated if you know how to give prompt it and give

20:47it context. Yeah, I agree. I think like anyone who's used Bolt and Lovable seriously will start to appreciate like how difficult it is to build software cuz like there's a certain level you reach and it starts to get difficult, right? Um so to me they're underrated in a sense where that initial joy everyone experiences when they prompt something and like result shows up Yeah. is like I've seen it and like a lot of people like it's it's it's it's amazing to see people experience that unlock but then it gets to a point where

21:25you want to take it really really far. Um I actually think the next big wave of businesses are infrastructure companies like your super I mean super bases are killing it but like your super bases your convexes like these backend as a service companies that will basically handle all that nitty-gritty stuff and like can easily connect to some of these vibe coding tools. I think those are the the big big business plays and that's where like you know anyone who says oh we need to replace like AI replaces engineers now you need engineers to build that cuz that stuff is hard and there are even certain things that even cloud code

21:59as amazing as it is can't do but I would say for what it it unlocks and what it's done and I think how it's um inspired folks I think um it's rated fair I think the people who love it love it for a reason and If you haven't used it and you use it, it it feels like a

22:18new world. Yeah. And then in terms of like is Bolt better or is lovable better? I think it it goes down to like, you know, is Excala draw better or TLG draw? Right. That's how I feel about cursor windsurf. I know I didn't put it here too. Like I get it all the time. Which one's better? Cursor windsurf. And it's like they both release updates at such a pace. Just pick your camp and stick with it,

22:41right? I also think like there's nothing wrong with prompting both. Mhm. Uh yeah. I mean, yeah, like you could literally have both, right? So, I agree with you. Um I don't think there's like a notable cuz it's always like I feel like it swings in pendulums. Like one week Bolt is better, the next week lovable is better, the next week this is better, that is better. And I I think for the most part, unless there's like specific features that one has that the other doesn't, I think as a non-technical person, um

23:11you're living. You want to move on to number seven? Yeah. So, these are Figma Make, Hostinger, Air Table. I haven't tried and I probably will never try cuz these are companies that I think Figma doing it makes sense. Okay, explain. People don't even know. Yeah. So, Figma is like the designer toolkit, right? Designers,

23:32they're going IPO. They're huge. They're IPO. And is it a smart thing to buy at IPO? Cuz you know, I read on Google, oh, you're not supposed to buy at IPO. That's when the investors dump. But Circle went like 4x. But this is financial advice, so maybe we'll talk. I'm actually a Figma shareholder.

23:48Full disclosure. This guy's cooking. Full disclosure. You know, this guy's cooking. But I keep it real. I'll be honest with Figma make. I think it's overrated. Yeah, I think so, too. I think Do you think it was more so for optics versus like they actually want to like maybe compete with the Temples, the Bolts, the lovables? Like cuz to me it's like I didn't think they had to do that. I mean, I remember when I sold my company to Weiwork, it was a it was a mobile app and it we work needed plays like that because they wanted to be valued as a tech company, right? So, before you go

24:28IPO, um it's really really important to be like on trend. Makes sense. and that adds to like the, you know, um the valuation and the excitement uh of whatever it is you're doing. So my guess is that the you know I don't have any inside information about Figma just to be clear like I'm a small shareholder via I invested in a company that company got

24:55bought by Figma and I got some shares. Um, so I know nothing like inside about it, but that being said, like I would imagine that they're like, "Oh, wow. All the Bolts and Lovables are crushing it and Tempos are crushing it." You know, how do we get a little of that pie so that um so that the market gets excited about

25:17our IPO. Makes sense. Makes sense. Yeah. So that that seems like Hostinger has one too. Air Table has one too. And I mean, if you want to have one too, you can go on code Antonio's video and follow his thing. So, I definitely think like I don't know. Do you think anyone can come in the space right now and be as

25:36big as the Bullets and the Lovables? Like cuz like it just seems like every week there's a new one. Well, yesterday I think it was leaked that lovable is raising at a $2 billion billion dollar valuation. Yo, kud kudos to Totally. We talked about investing in Lovable, you remember? Yeah. And we didn't, you know. I told I told one of my bros about it and I was like, "Yo, I think they just raised two billion." I was like, "At the time I think it was this much." And he was just like looking at me like, "Bro, what are you doing?" I was just like,

26:16"Man, at the time it just, you know." Yeah. But kudos to them, you know, stellar execution, like just world class. It's, you know, irregardless, like one thing I will say, and I think we share the same testament um competitor or not, no other person or not, I I genuinely just love seeing people win. I love like

26:36excellence winning. That's what I like. I like that about you. Yeah. Like there's no like I don't be no, we're just here to, you know, do great things. So it's like I love like you know as much of a like you know competitor or you know whatever they are like excellence is excellence man and and they've executed and it's been inspiring and the pie is the pie is huge right everyone can win man everyone can win I'm I'm a big believer we all can win nobody has to tear down nobody to win that's right that's right so yeah I I don't even I'll be honest I

27:07haven't used Figma make I haven't used the Hostinger one or the air table one although Hostinger is a great VPS provider uh you want to I think they even have a template to host your NE8 N8. So like cool for them, but I haven't used any of these and probably won't. Cool. Uh so how about Madness? I know you your big the biggest video on the channel is

27:28a Manis video. Not the biggest, but it was one of though. Yeah, it's a top video, you know, cuz I think Manis was one of the first like agent. Yeah. Like it felt like, oh, this is like a Jarvis, like it could do stuff for me. You can leave it. Yeah. And you were able to watch it

27:44browse in real time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which was also really cool. I still use Manis a lot. I think it's underrated. I agree. I think uh I've used it a few times like for research stuff and it was pretty good. Now my only concern like if I was part of the Manis team is you know with open with open AI is deep research and all that stuff. You think they'll go into that direction or you think Manis is a specialized tool enough where it's like there's still a place for it? I think for as of recording this, it's underrated, but we're going to look back

28:16on this video in 6 months and be like, why were we talking about Madness? I feel you. Yeah, cuz like it's like I mean, Sam said it in like the most, you know, gangster way I can ever think. He's like, just make sure you align your growth with us, otherwise we'll steamroll you. Right. So it seems like with operator and with like deep deep research even perplexities pivot to like a browser like you know I I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to battle those guys. No, I will also say with Mannis is I was using it the other day and it was like connect your Instagram

28:55and they need to get I was like I don't think so you know the Chinese government you know let me just get your information. No. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So be careful on Mannis with you know giving your information. Yeah. I I genuinely like I I actually have like like not a theory but like a a hypothesis that every site should just

29:19be sign up with Google. Yeah. Like done with the email password stuff cuz if you sign in with Google there's no way you can really do anything heinous with my information cuz Google will take care of that. They give you just enough. So yeah, having to give IG access is pretty wild. Also like we added, you know, on ideaber.com, the new thing I'm working on, we added sign up with Google. It was just email before and then we had to sign up with Google. I was surprised

29:43most people sign up with Google. Yeah. Like it's it's just cuz like even for myself like maybe this is me being a developer like the fact like I have to give you my password and remember it and you know like password could potentially leak. I think a couple billion passwords leaked not too long ago versus with

29:59Google click click boom done. Right. So, I'm very like most apps I build will probably only be sign in with Google and uh I like that. Yeah. Okay. Vap. This is more you. I've like I've heard like it's a voice agent or something like that, right? Yeah. Vapo. So, it's voice agents. That's what it is. So, it allows you to create voice

30:23agents. Ah, yeah. I think it's most people don't have never used it. Yeah. So, it's underrated. Like the fact that you're able to like uh Oh, dang. 400,000 calls. the fact that you can create workflows that allow you to like create a Twilio number and then start calling, you know, add an Excel list of like or Google Drive list of all these phone numbers and then reach out to them and have conver, you know, have basically an intelligent, you know, voice agent speak to these people. I think is n underrated. I just pinned this. I'm

31:04going to play uh with your API later. Cool. Last but not least, come on, man. Come on, man. You tripped the whole Show them the Theo. Let's pull up the Theo tweet. Theo is not happy. So Theo is like You look up to Theo, right? Theo's my guy. Like I like I will say he was one of the inspos like one of the biggest inspos for like tech YouTube. um like for Devu too like his like and and like I can I can honestly like give credit where credit is due. Like I grew

31:37a lot as an inch because of his videos. Um where did he he tweets a lot. Dang Theo he had me. Okay. So let's see. So, while you're pulling that out, I tweeted that I think that M Oh, here once you once you understand MCP, you never see the internet the same way. By the way, the context there is I was

32:00talking about non-developers. When non-developers understand what MCP is, it it's like a light bulb moment around, wow, I can use LLMs in this way. That's all I was trying to say. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I think uh like again man, Theo's a very smart developer, but this is the classic case. And Theo, if you're watching this, if I'm wrong, let me know. But this is a classic case of a developer thinking from a developer's mind. Like I read this and I understood because I have a lot of I would say 90%

32:30of my friend group are non-developers. Like I spend most of my day with non-developers versus developers aside from my workplace, right? So I get what you mean when this blows your mind. Like when a friend of mine on I think it was Claw Desktop set up like I think it was a Gmail connector or something and he was able to ask something about his emails blew his mind away. It felt like Jarvis to him. So yeah but it's your next tweet that made me laugh. Wait, wait, go back. Go back cuz uh yeah, scroll down. This guy, relax, dude. It's just a JSON schema, right? Like, yeah, currently building an

33:07AI agent. Like, bro, you see a GitHub. Yeah, like it's devs thinking about devs. And then I I responded, it's not what it is, but what it unlocks. Like, that's how I think about it. Given what I understand this protocol better than 90% of the larers on I could tell you from most because of like it's

33:22just bro. And then look how long of a tweet he writes. Yeah, I'm not reading all that. God bless you and I hope you don't. It's like uh Yeah. What? You see like even like the fact that like there are still people who don't know what MCP means. So unlocking MCP unlocks freedom. Okay. So why do you think MCP is a huge unlock? Yeah, cuz the thing is it's like you're for like a nontechnical person, the fact that my clawed desktop app can now have access to external information with almost minimal configuration on my end is powerful. It's like to me like the way I look at Nadn like I can build

34:06all those automations and to be honest for the most part I will because I enjoy writing the code. I think I could maintain it um better and like I I as a developer would feel more at ease having control over the code versus trusting any end. But for someone who's not technical who might have some technical knowledge, what it unlocks is huge. And that's the same way I think about it too. So, and if you remember the video we did, I told you like from a dev perspective, it's kind of just an API at the end of the day. But for a non-technical person, being able to

34:37integrate these thirdparty ser ser uh services into like an MCP client of your choice, that's money. That's game changer. So yeah, the devs the devs take an L on this one. The the M in MCP stands for money. The money context protocol. And yeah, I'm with that, bro. So I would I would definitely say this is underrated. Underrated. Yeah, cuz like most people most people using Chad GBT still don't have Does Chad GBT have MCP? I'm more of a Claude guy. Yeah. So like once that happens, it's like imagine people I don't think they do. I've never I've I I think they mentioned it that they

35:14were going to start building Chad GP. I think they mention uh but I don't know if it's in there yet. Not yet. But as MCP support Oh, they have like Oh, but like specific. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, and like Outlook, dude. Yeah. Like, no thank you. Teams. Teams, right? Yeah. So, yeah, I think MCP is underrated. I think devs being devs. Um, and that was interesting. And I think, uh, you definitely followed it up with some other banger tweets that uh, picked up in Steam to say the least. like the 50k. I need to show people that the 50k. What was it? Uh,

36:01is it not technical? There it is. Right here, man. 2 and a2 million views. Okay. You want to read it? I don't think you understand. You vibe of you.

36:18Oh, yeah. You just you just jump to 50k. Your net margins are at least 50% because you don't need a big team. You're making 25k a month 300k a year. You could sell business for 10 15 x all day long. Your business net worth, your business worth is 3 to five. You own 100%. You keep growing or selling. You double down the business all of a sudden 6 to 10. Your customers love the product. Why are you raising venture capital again? I don't think you understand. I I I think people, you know, this was just such a great Yeah. jump that people for like you know

36:51this was your point why are you raising venture this is obviously best case scenario you're just on a hot streak right but I think people just saw this I mean where am I wrong in this besides besides okay I go down if you scroll down they said you corrected yourself here I think you said I corrected myself 5 to 10x uh EBIDA which by the way you're still making millions of dollars is building a SAS. But tell me where am I wrong in this in this you know what it is cuz they because they because folks don't have the context u of like the content you create. So

37:32this I I'll say this if this wasn't a Greg Eisenberg post I would think this is someone selling me like some course. So I get it. But the context of your content and the ideas you give and the point you're trying to make here you've always been like I remember you were always the anti-VC guy. And people don't know this. You invest in companies all the time actually. So it's like but you're telling them you don't really need to

37:55raise money and and I believe this too. Unless you're building something where there's no way you can be profitable because like you're you know you're using these new AI tools and the credits are like anthropic is expensive. Like I've seen the tempo anthropic bill. It's it's high right. So a company like that like the lovables the bulls they have to raise money cuz if they're somewhat profitable right now that's a miracle I don't think they are um so for that type of business it makes sense but if you're building like man your content generator you don't need like Sequoia Capital to invest money in you right so I get the

38:31point you're making here but people just read this and can I tell you you were on every engineer like you were cold tweeted by all my favorite developers yeah like Prime, like even the small accounts. I was like, my Greg's that Twitter check is going to be an amazing steak dinner. Totally. But I get I get your point. I get you're talking about raising capital here. And now question. Have you heard like of a vibe code? Like I've heard some people like for example this guy, I

39:03think his name is Alex. He used my template, like my SAS template, and he's not really a developer. He's not. I've had him on the pod. Yeah. So, 300 bandos, dude. He And he I think he responded. He was like, "Yeah, absolutely. This is Yeah, we we No, we got a burger together in SF." And I'm like I'm like, "Brother, you use my template and you make more than me for my job. Like, you're cooking, right?" So, it's like technically I mean he got some ways to go but Alex is he's he's he's on the way there. Now, again, this doesn't mean everyone's going to do it. Just like every like I

39:38know so many talented engineers, Greg, so many talented engineers. They probably won't reach that number, right? So, that that part is on you. So, I get what you're saying. Um but I also understand that when you wrote this, you kind of knew this was going to Yeah, I know. I know. I know. I know. I thought it might ruffle some feathers

39:57for sure. I know. I know. Cuz a lot of people like, "Oh, how could you write this, this, this, that?" I'm like, I know he smirked when he hit post. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I truly believe in this post, honestly. Like, I truly believe that, okay, it's going to be hard. You know, you're not just like

40:19saying yes. And don't quit your job. Don't quit your job. you know, you're not going to single prompt a 50k a month SAS, but I do believe that we live in a world that it's completely possible to use things like cursor, to use some of these tools to develop something that you can make $50,000 a month for. I believe it

40:40minimum like or 10,000, okay? Or 20,000. But like 50,000 isn't even that I think 50 piss people off. The 50 piss people off. I think if you did 10 it would have been calm. I don't think the tweet would have gone this viral. But to be honest, like if I'm being honest with you, I I I think that, you know, especially in a world where now you can like partner with creators and do Tik Tok ads, you know, look at like what the Calai guys are doing, you know, printing like $50,000 a month is less money than a convenience store. I will say this, even I, you saying that, there's a part of me

41:16that's a bit uncomfortable even imagining that, but that just shows like, man, like you just got to got to switch your thinking. Well, it's a limiting belief. It's a limiting belief. It's possible. It's it's possible. I'm not saying it's probable, but it's possible and it's never been more easier than compared to like 5 10 years

41:34ago. Agreed. Agreed. So, that's my point of this post is that and that it could be life-changing. Yeah. And that was my point. And I and I believe this. You know what? Let me give it a retweet, too. Because I was cry, bro. I was laughing at all the responses. But, uh, no, I think if there was any time to start something that has the slightest chance of being successful, there's no better time than today. And that's a fact. There's no better time. Like you can't say it was better 5 years ago, 10 years ago, especially in our like I would say world like tech, SAS,

42:13whatever. Like in fact, I'll be honest as a developer it like you know back in the day was better the jobs like you would be hired for less skill. You can overcharge people to build the simplest apps, right? Like I've heard stories of people pay like 50 60k for like a simple crud app that you can like vibe code now, right? So the there isn't a better

42:34time than now. And I and I fully agree. And stop hating on my boy Greg. I mean, keep you keep it real with me, you know, like people No, I I I'll tell you this, like like I said, it's that 50K number even it made me feel uncomfortable. But because I know you and I know your content and I know the mindset you have, this wasn't you like gloating or whatever. But for an engineer, like if I like I said, if I if I didn't see your name, I would think this is someone trying to promo course or something. If I didn't see your name and I didn't read the last two lines,

43:04right? So if it was I don't think you understand your customers love your product. If it ended there I would have been like yeah one of those probably has a course link in bio. But why are you raising venture capital again? Meaning like there's no point in you doing this and it being you and your content is when I saw this and I was like I get

43:22what he's trying to say. But like you also have to learn in the in the dev space we're very much tired of like the fake guru. M well isn't everyone like no but like I think we have like an exceptional like like we despise it especially because we see people fall for it and that fake guru make like millions and millions of dollars. So there is like this deep like I know we

43:45all are but with devs it's deeper. So it's too bad cuz I the point of the post was really to inspire people and man like I told you it made me feel like I texted you this it made me feel uncomfortable. like 50k a month. Like Jack Fritz, did you see Jack Fritz? Yeah, he's like easy money, right? What

44:01did he say? Go to his his ex. He's actually uh I've talked with him before. Jack, he's like making what 20 uh something like that. I think it's in replies, right? No, no, he quote retweeted it. It's He has a lot a lot of tweets, so you got to really go down. Read read a little bit of that. It's actually not out of the question

44:23for someone. Vibe code assass get 50k. There are plenty of people who know 50K a month is a rid is not a ridiculously high number. It's entirely economically feasible that 100 more vibe coders could make could be making 50k a month and wouldn't impact your chance of success either. And he's young too, right? Mostly the limits you set on yourself are the limits you tend to get stuck on. So remember the next time you think 50k a month is not doable for you or some other vibe coder for it's sure for for sure it is. It's not easy but definitely doable. Keep going. I'm 19k a month. I

44:55told my mom will go my goal was 30k a month and I knew she thought that was insane a bit. It was beyond her reality and just and just in reach of mine at the time making 1k a month from my mobile app. But now I'm where I never thought I'd be and I could tell I I held it back in these false limits just because I thought it was some impossible mountain. No plenty. No plenty. And I

45:16mean a lot of people make 50k a month. Why not? Maybe it won't be Why not you? A lot of people are making a lot of people make 50k a month. Why not you? That's true. You vibe code of sass. Okay, Greg. Yeah, Shan is uh Shan is one of those devs. He's funny, but like what did he say? He's like you vibe code of sass. You get 50k a

45:38month. Okay, Greg. 519,000 views. I told you, man. You were on my feed. And it wasn't even your tweet that I saw. It was everyone's quote tweet of you. I'm like, what's going on? But I think everyone just skipped this part. This was your conclusion. Your conclusion is you don't need venture no more. My conclusion honestly is that and also you can you can you can do this. At

45:59least try. Oh, so there's an agreement here. He says, "Can you build a profitable SAS?" Absolutely. It's Is it as simple as Greg makes it sound? Come on. That's LinkedIn successful. The average SAS takes two to I disagree with that. The average SAS takes Okay, you know what? Maybe I agree with the average SAS. Okay, great. Are we trying to create average products

46:18here? 100 Bernard. Yeah. This is oversimplification of the process and mislead. I think again I think your post was taken as this is now the new reality. Yeah. Versus you're saying this is difficult. It's not easy but this can be acha attainable. At least people didn't get that from the post but I understand what you're trying to say right like if 50k a month was easy we'd all be making 50k a

46:40month. But it's not. But it doesn't mean it's not possible. That's right. Also the paradigm has shifted. Like yes, the average SAS took all you know what did he say two to three years to make. No, things have definitely got faster. Things have gone faster. Yeah. Um and I think a lot of people like even the YC companies pivot so much nowadays in the like you're not sticking to something two to three years like you ideally want some sort of product market fit much quicker. But again, I've never

47:06grown a successful SAS. He says pretending the hard parts don't exist isn't abundance mindset. It's lying to yourself. Real abundance is knowing the game is hard and knowing there are still tons of ways to win. I disagree. I disagree. So talk about that. Yeah, I fully disagree. It's lying to yourself. Real abundance is knowing the game is hard and knowing there are still tons of ways to win. So like what would you Okay, so where do you disagree here? Cuz I'm not sure

47:32pretending. I feel like that statement is leading from a place of fear and not leading from a place of courage and abundance. So if you want something, you have to picture like yourself at the finish line, right? Like if you're running a race, you picture yourself number one. Like think of a horse track like the horses, right? The horse that has the blinders on and is just like picturing itself getting to, you know, finishing that line is more likely to be number one, even if it isn't the biggest horse and have the strongest legs and stuff like that. We underestimate going back to overestimate under or overrated underrated. I think

48:14what's underrated is how powerful our minds are when when we could actually say um when we actually could like think about the m you know getting to the finish line and winning. Like when I start a project I'm not like I'm trying to get to 5k a month Mr. or I'm trying to get five or 10 customers. like I'm I'm I'm picturing like, you know, the CNBC video and I'm picturing this or I'm picturing whatever is success for that

48:45project. And if you do that, I just find that you're more likely to win. You know what it is? I have this I have this uh theory that in order for a company to succeed, there needs to be two types of people. One with the rhythm and one with the tism, right? So CTO's are often like you know the more I would say Tism short for autism uh more like technical more predictable more we have to do this this is achievable we can build this and the CEO has to sort of be a dreamer that pushes everyone to feel uncomfortable and to me this looks like

49:20a classic CTO versus CEO where like I think a lot of engineers and even myself like I feel like I'm like in two worlds where I get him and I get you. Mhm. And I I I I heard this saying one time uh it was like pessimists are often right, but op optimists make money. And it's like I've decided that I want to be an optimist and I want to make money. So this to me looks like this is a CTO talking and what you're saying

49:48sounds like a CEO talking. I feel like if the inverse happened where he was CEO and you were CTO, I don't think it'd work out. But there's a reason why I think this dynamic between two people is the best in terms of building like a really big company. Like someone needs to dream and someone needs to remind us that the reality is crap and we need to fix things. But I think both without a good balance might not be the best. But again, this is I this is all thought. This is all theory. Um I haven't built a successful business yet. So I don't know. I I think

50:24what's interesting is the non-technical people like myself are starting to build pro products now. So now we're going to see who's really about it. I agree with you. I agree with you. And as the models are getting better, we're like, you know, I agree with you. Um but yeah, I I I definitely do think it's like it like a lot of work starts in the mind. And you know I I definitely prescribe to the fact that you know if if if you want to build excellent things it it starts with some sort of belief and confidence that like okay I might not have it all figured out. Yes it's

50:58hard but at some point if I go hard enough long enough strategic enough you know right place right time that I can make it happen. So you know I I I accept the inspiration. 50k a month. Here we go. Here we go. Can we end with a 3 to 4 minute GitHub? The simplest. This is going to be the

51:15simplest tutorial of life. Like this is going to be so simple. Think of GitHub as this one giant line. This is your project. And think of I'll maybe like draw like little lines here. Think of these as like major milestone, product updates, things you've shift, right? Shipped, right? Let's say for the first one that this was um an admin dashboard, right? We shipped an admin dashboard uh Greg and our customers are extremely happy, but then we got some new feedback that they want like a live tracker in the admin dashboard. We currently have a working project. We currently have working code. What most people have been

52:05doing with their Vibe projects, like you you build and you kick publish and then it publishes right away. What most people have been doing is they're adding a new feature on top of working code. Now, here's the problem. Most people setup is as follows. They have their vibe coding tool. Vibe coding or IDE for the devs, right? So this is where you write or you prompt your code and then

52:32you push this code to GitHub, right? And then think of GitHub again as this giant line of like features you're continuing to stack and then the way most people have it set up is you are this code is probably getting pushed to Verscell, right? Versel is Verscell or Netlefi. These are the the big boys. Now here's the problem. The problem here and the reason why GitHub is so important is let's say people want the live tracker but our app is working fine how it is right now. If I prompt my IDE or or my vibe code tool or even myself as a de developer I build this live tracker

53:10feature and let's say I didn't test well or even let's say we tested but there was some bug that we missed and I push this to production. This pushes to versel, updates the site, updates the app. Now I've pushed a bug into my live code. Site can go down, user can mess like there's a lot of things that can go wrong. GitHub works as such. So let's say I've built I'll remove this right here. So let's say we've shipped the admin dashboard. Perfect. Now we want to add the live tracker. GitHub has this terminology or this thing called branching for we can copy the code from

53:47its last working point and create a new branch and I can give a name to this branch and usually the naming convention for like a production branch is main. It used to be master but apparently master is offensive now. It's main. Uh did I just delete main? It's main. And for like the new branch, I can name it whatever I want. So in this case, let's say we're a large team. I'll name it Mickey slashlive tracker. And the reason why I'll name it this way is you know that it's me who's working on this. And by the name, you can kind of tell what feature I'm working on. So what I'm

54:23going to do is I'm going to be building out the live tracker feature in this branch. This code is now separate from this code. This branch is connected to Verscell. So, as long as I don't push, as long as I don't touch this branch, the live deployment is fine. And the reason why GitHub is so sick is I can continue to work on this branch thoroughly test it. And then when it's all said and done and it's good, I'll merge this. Let me get my pencil. I'll merge this back into the branch. So now I've had a clean run where this app is working fine. I spent enough time

55:00testing to make sure all is well. And once I'm confident that all is well, I merge it. And I showed an example earlier when we were talking about um uh when we were talking about uh Devon. This is a classic example where the change that was made was this right here. This this line was removed. You can see the branch name here. The branch name is Devon/ some number fixed pass template expiration. Right? So kind of same naming uh naming convention. You can name it however you want, but I find that helpful. And then the way in technical organizations it works is a manager or someone else reviews it. In

55:39this case, it could be you or code rabbit. And then you see this option right here that's um that's uh that's hidden right now where you click merge. And then once you've merged it, it's essentially into your main codebase. So although most people will not be into GitHub heavily, I think understanding that this is how it works and I think as the tools continue to to to to get better, we're going to start like vibe coders will have access to these type of tools like being able to branch and this is essentially how it works. I have a main branch. This is connected to my versellar netfi. If I push code to here,

56:18it redeploys my site and in order to build a very sustainable uh piece of product that works, that's functional, every single feature I want to build or change I want to make, I have to turn into a new branch, right? I vibe code it, I test it, it works, I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm happy, then I merge in. And there are times where you start and it never gets merged. But guess what? You don't care because it does not affect the main branch which is connected to your versel and netlifi. And that's a

56:46GitHub crash course. I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate that. I think uh well, one thing I you know, we often forget is GitHub is owned by Microsoft. Yeah. So, you got to think that OpenAI with codeex and the integrations that they're going to be doing with GitHub and like I think like all the vibe coding tools, I mean like this is even stuff we're working on on Tempo is like if we really want people to build serious applications,

57:14these workflows are coming, right? For sure. And I can imagine it almost being like a every time you work on a new feature like the tool automatically creates a new branch for you, right? Makes sense cuz directly pushing live into production is you're crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you're making money, you can, you know,

57:31especially if you're making 50k a month. 50x two. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, thank you so much for the chat. Great. This is fun, man. People need a I'll link it in the description, but follow you, subscribe, and you'll be a smarter person for it. So, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. It's always it's always a pleasure and

57:56uh yeah hope to do these more. Absolutely. Till next time, my man.