I Met The Most Obsessed Man On The Internet

0:00I think this is the most underrated thing in the world for creators especially and anyone trying to make anything usually the best creators own one word or one specific phrase like Ryan holiday owns stoicism jao willink I think owns discipline what happens is you repeat this word every single day and then people just start seeing it everywhere cuz you know what it is when you give something a name it gives someone like a a lighthouse right until then it's just like air but when you give someone a name it becomes something they can go towards something they can visualize something they could stand by and so there's that piece there's like

0:27giving an actual name to your mission your lifestyle who you are whatever it is I have been looking forward to this one the most interesting man on the internet Zach pogb um and I have a confession to make I actually was going to cancel last minute this podcast recording uh because I woke up had a headache really wasn't feeling well but you talk about Obsession and I've been seeing all your videos about running and just going hard and sleeping on the floor floor and I looked in the mirror and I slapped myself in the face and I was like what would Zach do and of course I I you know

1:10I'm looking forward to this I'm not gonna cancel it right like I'm obsessed I want to make this podcast amazing I'm not going to cancel it so what did I do I had a couple double espressos popped a couple Advils worked out steam sauna cold plunge and then I just sat out side a little bit had a little breakfast for like 30 minutes just com and completely changed my morning and day and I I've been feeling feeling dope since so you inspired me let's go that that is the obsessed lifestyle it is UN optimization it is almost Embrace embracing when you don't feel perfect embracing when you don't have all the

1:51stacks all the cards uh stacked with you and using that as like motivation it's huge so good job Greg you're officially obsessed I appreciate it um so on this podcast we talk about different business ideas um and and different niches and Trends you prepared a few which I think are are fascinating um and I want to start with suffering as a service what do you mean by that yeah it's funny because it's almost like sass right it's like the same type of acronym I just think normal life has gotten so soft and easy you know Uber eats to your apartment go puff for deliveries um and that's why you see

2:34all these people doing you know tough modders Spartan races Ultra marathons people are craving that type of discomfort it actually makes them feel alive um even like these dark Retreats like in the last year I don't know about you but like five people I know are like oh yeah I just sat in darkness for a week to like find myself and like you can position that however you want that is suffering like in some way and it's like I think you can get really creative with that and I think it's a massive opportunity like as you have to imagine just normal life's just going to get

3:03easier and easier right we're going to have to do less and less so people will need more things like that and so like honestly it's a big part of what I'm doing like this run cult I just started this run Club it's kind of like shared suffering and I think that's why people like it can you talk about that like for for people who don't know like what is what is the Run cult and why do you think it's start it's taking off sure so yeah if you if you've been on like Instagram in the last year you've probably seen run clubs taking off kind of all around the country they're kind

3:31of like the new uh they're like just this new trend that's happening in all these cities because people are getting into running and I've been doing more and more running myself getting really into it over the last year have this audience you know biggest on Instagram and you know me and Hunter Weiss in the office were kind of talking like you know what type of community do we want there's so many of these and honestly last the week I launched it which was like three or four weeks ago it was one of those things I didn't even decid it till the morning of I'm just like I need

4:01to do this I came up with the perfect name the night before perfect branding run cult every run Club is called Club cult is like one letter off and a total different like meaning so it's just like it goes from being oh hey want to join this R Club run Club to hey want to join this run cult I just love it and yeah what it is is me and like 50 people every Monday morning meet we run through the streets of Manhattan in the morning at 7: a.m. we do Sprints at the end and it's great it was also the first time really testing like my audience with an

4:29inperson event um and it went really well it's pretty cool like for me it's it's not really about me and I kind of struggle with that we could talk about that too because I know you're a big Community guy but it was cool to like give people a chance to enter the world of obsession that I write about because that that's kind of what it is and it is suffering as a service in a lot of ways right 100% 100% we do Sprints no run Club does Sprints I literally make these people Sprint for the first time in probably a decade and they love it makes them feel

4:57alive and that's why they keep coming back um um yeah I've seen people talk about your run cult as sort of like a Fight Club 2.0 yeah I mean before I launched it I watched Fight Club every single night like 20 times in a row I'm I'm not joking just because I wanted like the principles and the ethos to be like in my brain um it's the same model it's like project madman in Fight Club if you've seen the movie it's like start this thing where people you know they have never seen the side of themselves and now people like around the country are starting run Cults kind of like what

5:30happened with Fight Club um I don't know it's uh it's cool and what's the business of of the cult like how do you do you plan on monetizing it yeah so I plan on monetizing what I'm doing in the running space as a whole is like very partially money driven like I want to build real companies in the space and that is 100% a part of my vision but I'm not thinking about that yet really um I think there's a lot of opportuni like I think getting like I said like 50 people totally aligned on a mission wearing all black in Manhattan is special there's a

6:04lot of different ways to monetize that but overall it's more just like it's a huge piece of the world right the world I'm trying to build and um I don't know I think there'll be really cool opportunities this year with it in terms of collaborations obviously could do products and merch but I think and we could talk about this more I think the running space as a whole is massively wide open and so that's where I think I'll make a lot of moves over the next year too so so if you if you wanted to monetize it what sort of ideas would you have for it yeah one idea would be races I think

6:38that'd be fun so there's there's one kind of organization doing this but they just kind of suck at social media and so do like these uh put on races and charge you know a certain amount of money that would be okay I don't know if you'd make a ton ton of money from that probably make more money doing just like really great quality merch with it could do that could host events I don't know like I haven't really thought about it that much so Rafa do you know Rafa the cycling it's a cycling apparel company it's a bit highend and basically the idea is um you buy their merch but they also have a

7:12yearly community and you can pay like I don't know what it is I think it's like $50 a year or something and you pay for that and you get access to their like London New York SF uh cycling events and meetups so it's like there's these communities you join them and you you know you get to race and obviously you're going to you're not going to show up to a Rafa IRL Meetup wearing a Nike shirt you're G to wear Rafa so I think the combination of like I could see you just especially because of the Black by the way I'm wearing black for you I was wearing gray before

7:51and I was like something's off here I need to just throw to change real quick that's why I was late um and so I think that's a good I you know the fact that I put on black right now like if I had an obsessed sweater I would you know I'd be wearing it right now yeah I uh I cut you cut out for a second so you said it that that brand it's like a clothing brand at its core but they host is a type of membership where you get access to these races yeah I think the so my better answer is like I I've kind of thinking as the run cold

8:22as this here's how I'm thinking about the running space right now for me in terms of monetizing it's run cult is one piece right there's a mass opportunity I think in apparel right like I I'm starting to do these races now and I can't find anything I like can't find any Brands I like to wear just because of like the ethos of The Branding and the Styles um so there's that piece and then the third piece is like coaching I think one of my like most viral Tweets in the last year was every guy I know who's lifted for the last five years is getting into running now Ed it is true

8:51every single one of them so like there's like the Run cult the apparel and then some type of coaching branded around this coaching program app whatever um branded around this type of athlete and that's really how I'm thinking about it is so you've heard the term hybrid athlete right yeah like the Nick bear model kind of right yeah explain that for people because everyone knows that yeah so Nick bear you know was a Savage um you know he was uh he was in the army or Marines and he did Iron Man he did bodybuilding shows he's run freak marathons and he he would consider himself the hybrid athlete

9:25where you know he competes in strength competitions and and endurance comp competitions like running and marathons uh and that's become a huge thing on social media now people they do both they run and they lift I'm actually not interested in that at all like I have barely lifted in the last three months I I'm lifting a little bit but I'm a I'm a runner I a runner that's all I care about but I'm 200 pounds still I'm a big boy still relatively in the running space especially with like the times I'm doing and so I think there's a massive opportunity for me to build this new

9:55category of Runner where it's like 180 to 200 pounds a lot of them lifted for most of their like young adulthood but now they're getting into running and they need something to compete in right because I think like what Spartan does and what like have you heard of H rocks H rock is huge man H rock is like the the new CrossFit for hybrid athletes basically it's like it's been around a while but it's really blowing up like every every like Fitness influencer in Austin that I know is competing in this thing called high rocks anyway I think there's this new opportunity to build this category for

10:27these ex lifters becoming Runners to compete in doesn't really exist because these guys will never be Olympic marathoners they'll really never get to like a 230 Marathon which is really really really fast but they could still do something insane at their weight you know what I mean like I I genuinely think if I keep going in two years I'm going to be the fastest marathoner probably in the world between like 180 to 200 pounds maybe it's like a big goal but like I'll be up there and it would be sick if I could start this new category and like you said races things like that where it's designed for these

10:58types of people um I think that's a massive I think if you could create something that people dedicate their life towards that is unlimited monetization opportunities and and it's just sick totally and I think you're thinking about it the right way which is you're not forcing monetization like you that's the mistake a lot of people make is they they'll build a community they they'll build a movement and they'll start with monetization right away and it's just like you're building something special and and it it doesn't know it's a toddler you know it's not an adult it doesn't know what it wants to be yet and I think

11:34uh I like that I like that a lot that's a good analogy yeah well I think it's you you struck a chord like with this pain as a service um this idea around um a new category of Runner like the why now like it's very important to ask yourself like why now like why does this why should this movement exist and I think there's a lot of reasons why and I think if I were you I would be like okay how do I introduce as much pain as possible uh the next o over the next 12 months prove out New York City and the truth is like New York City pretty sure

12:14New York City has like more like a bigger GDP than Canada I believe you know so you know if you can make it there you can make it anywhere right so there's so much opportunity I think uh 10 plus million people um that I would just focus on pain and New York City uh like double down on the thing double down on the down like the thing the thing the thing that people like it for yeah that's the thing we kind of debate like the cult branding because it's so like divisive like we don't get that many girls at our run cult right and some of the guys like like girls I

12:50guess and it's like but I'm like no like that's the whole Magic of it it's like it is a cult it is hard um it wouldn't work if you changed the name so I like that I will more pain more pain to the world more pain more pain more Gain No I think uh I think there's there's so many sister brother painful ideas that you could apply um I was watching this thing there's a wild thing it's called This is especially true in like the ultra marathon game there I was watching this thing if you want to Google it it's a sick documentary called the Barkley

13:26marathons and I don't know how much you'll see on Google but it's it's a great documentary it's just this random dude in the middle of Tennessee puts on this 100 mile race right and to get through it you have you there's no Mount there's no route you make your own route and you have to collect like book pages from trees so you have to collect pages from books taped the trees to prove you've been on it it's wild so I think there's so much I could do with like like imagine like a darkplace ultramarathon series like I think that is going to stuff like that could be so

13:56cool I found uh I Googled it and the first thing thing that came up was a New York Times article that said life isn't fair he didn't want this race to be either I it reminded me of that uh it reminds me of the thing from uh did you ever see like that haunted house McKenzie Manor I think it's called or it's just this dude in like New Jersey who like people sign up to get tortured by him and it's just a dude in like a house anyway that's a that's another weird YouTube rabbit hole well I think the trend that you're talking about which is which is basically that

14:28people need to feel something corre um is is a really important thing to note you know I'm in a group chat and someone in the group chat this morning wrote I just bought some Bitcoin and ethereum and then someone else wrote why and then he writes just to feel something it's true I mean I feel like that's why people got so addicted to crypto it's like that that a few years ago it was just so emotional yeah yeah so I think like if you can start like if you can reverse engineer feelings like that's a a good prompt for how to create you know and you talk about this

15:10a lot a movement versus you know a business yeah I like that let's move to agencies on the back of creators what's interesting about that to you well I have one now it's pretty cool it's called vids it's mostly right now for the animations that I've done on my page kind of how I blew up my content last year I think I gained like 2 million followers in six months from making those animations just like crazy numbers uh and when it works well that model is sick for someone like me where you know you have talented operators um on the back end helping build it right

15:48like I've never built real real businesses yet built like small businesses so it's like trust them and um I think creators on it depends right I think creators either massively underestimate or massively overestimate the demand they have right and like I think I'm I was in like the underestimating camp like underestimating how much I made how many leads I drove from promoting something so it's like finding those creators who are underestimating it versus the overestimating right um because I think more and more creators would sign up for something like this to be fair maybe there's not that many but that have a big enough audience but I think there's

16:24still enough and I think if you can package a Creator's journey and Obsession into service it can be pretty cool so I still think it's a good opportunity how much how much does it cost to work with you like what is the product offering and and do you are you running the agency is my other question am I personally yeah no no there's an operator his name is Jordan running the whole thing um I'm involved still because it's still pretty new uh we have a few different tiers it's like I think the lowest is like 3500 up to like 7500 and then a little more if it if the

16:57package gets crazy um and yeah it's it's just like set video deliverables basically you get me involved as a creative director basically where I'm like looking over all the design because that's what I'm obsessed with and you also get like my system for script writing because in my opinion especially on short form the also I'm not trying to sell my agency right now it's just like this okay you're explaining it you're explaining it yeah I'm really not um there's a million need these agencies go work for go choose one that you like um the scripts on these videos are everything I genuinely think it's like 90% script writing for short form and

17:28really for content in general right but it's uh yeah that's what it is it's not complicated it's just uh you know trying to do there's a bunch of these agencies just trying to do a good job at it I think zero to a million dollars Revenue like it's a good cash flowing business maybe $2 million I think where these businesses get way more interesting is when they turn into some sort of software product so I'll give you an example not many people know this but who tweet which is a social media scheduling platform has raised hundreds of millions of dollars multi-billion dollar valuation actually came out of an agency called invoke so

18:07invoke was a social media agency in the mid 2000s when Twitter was just first coming out and they realized that their clients needed tweet schedulers so because they're working with social media uh clients they're just like okay let's just go build it for ourselves so we can use it with clients and then once they got like 20 clients using it all of a sudden they spun it out and then it became a separate business they raised hundreds of millions of dollars sort of the rest is history so I think with you and what you're doing I think like at the face of it Creator agencies is like

18:41I don't know somewhat interesting but what's more interesting is the insights that the creator has and the insights that the agency has so that you can productize that maybe it's software maybe it's not software it doesn't necessarily need to be software but some productization and people throw around the word producti Services I'm not talking about a producti service I'm talking about a productize scalable business so I think that's where you can take your business yeah I think you're right and I also think yeah you're right like as a whole the agency thing is probably overrated for most people um it's just cool for me which is why I'm talking I mean your

19:19friend I mean it's because you you have friends who who are in that space too right Hunter has an agency Henry and do now yeah we all do basically it's great um yeah you're right it's probably as a whole super overrated for creators but I think it's okay I think it's underrated for like operators I think it's a cool opportunity for like the operator to like start something cool that's what I think it's more the opportunity is better yeah start I like what you're saying like what you're saying about software though yeah yeah I like what you're saying that's definitely the vision that should be the

19:52vision if you uh if you were to create software for a video AG agency like what would you create um I mean I've wanted to create the software for since I started making these videos and I have some people who are trying it's just not doesn't exist yet it's just like Drop in a script and make an animated video if you want to make that you know message me um there's like people who can do like a 10% version of it um and it's probably pretty close with the AI stuff to be fair that would be like that would be the answer related to those videos

20:21yeah I feel like that idea is a huge idea which is basically it feels like every four or six months there's like a new format for short form video like and you've been to your credit like you've been always like feels like always inventing it or or popularizing it in a lot of way only like one or two only like one or two yeah only change the internet the history of the internet once or twice no big deal so I think that's what creators should be thinking about is like productizing that part of their brain um it's just harder it's just harder to build something like that oh yeah it's

20:57way harder but you get but you get better results yeah it and it's it's harder and there's less instant gratification like you could send out a tweet being like hey like you wouldn't do this but you could send out a tweet be like go to my landing page and book you know book me I've got two spots open for my video agency um and you would people would get that you know sign up in a second and you'd make money in a second it's way harder to like build a suite of software hire like talented people people invest a bunch of money and and charge $50 a

21:32month uh that is way sicker though if you can do it I I agree yeah so something for for folks to to think about um this was an interesting idea that you have um the mider mid-tier creators passion fruit for bet but better what did you mean by that have you used that platform at all do you know about it yeah I've used the platform I don't mean the [ __ ] on them but it's actually great and I've made money through the platform but like it's kind of it felt kind of unusable like I um it's just like SL uh what's the right word it's like uh chunky it's like hard

22:08to use quickly um I feel like so the mid- tier of creators right these people are getting a good amount of inbound for sponsors and collaborations right they're not getting you know $100,000 deals but they're getting you know a few every week interested or a few every month they can make you know a living let's say like a good living from sponsorships but they have no idea what they're doing this was basically me all last year right and I had to figure it all on my own I think there's an opportunity there I feel like now I'm kind of going Beyond not to be like cocky I think I'm slowly getting like

22:39away from that category to where like now I'm talking with like bigger companies and bigger deals and I have people helping me but this like mid- tier I don't know how exactly you define it with metrics it depends on the platform but I like passion fruit but better passion fruit but it works like I think that's a massive opportunity helping creators like productize and um not productize but like uh package with their offerings um I think it's a big opportunity I mean a lot of people are trying to help me with it sort of and uh not necessarily the creators but the operators to like go in and build

23:09those businesses yeah and this probably this here's here's a product I would love which is I would love to be a part of a group maybe it's less than 50 people but a group of creators and operators like invite only and have having like a team moderate to like connect let's say you know Zach with you know someone from hey it's like hey let's do a partnership with Shopify and like we did this thing for Mr Beast let's so do for you you know like where does that exist like where does you know what I mean you're saying The Operators The Operators for uh the brands yeah yeah yeah it doesn't

23:51really exist and that's like this is what I'm saying it should something like this should exist I'm kind of talking with some people who are doing something like this it's just like uh yeah it's interesting it's a good opportunity I think yeah if you can do it though you need you need to get connected with these people and it's hard yeah it's hard takes time and the trust isn't necessarily there that's why like I love the idea of having some person in the middle of it sort of like moderating it you know passion fruit is interesting in the sense that like it's self serve anyone can go on there and you kind of

24:21you can book sponsorships like we use it for we have a newsletter called you probably need a robot.com and for AI productivity and people book ads and like just it's awesome for us you know but we don't have people being like pitching us like oh hey you should you know do merch and you know what I mean like so I think having someone in between and connecting could be really interesting so I do think that there's something on this idea dude I got to ask you uh I listen to the founders podcast so I I heard you uh spoke to David senra and I want to know what he told you oh

25:00yeah that uh this great piece of advice he did a show in New York it was awesome and we hung out for a second before it yeah you gave me this piece of advice that I've given to like a dozen people when they want to start something it's like let's say you're a Creator or you're an entrepreneur and you want to build this thing right you have this list of like the five things that you should probably do like if you're a Creator that's like you know get your beehive newsletter it's like get a course going get um you know get a car ourself for Instagram like all this stuff right that

25:30is so like this next the typical next steps but usually the creators who have outlier success ignore all of those and they go do something else that's unique so it's like the advice from him is like take the five things that most people would do in this situation ignore them completely like actually write them down ignore them completely and then go do something else more unique and better think that's great advice to like stand out it's so simple and tactical yeah and I'm not surprised he has such good advice cuz like he literally studies the world's best people exactly he's great like you know you know the advice he

26:00gave me actually because we were talking about monetizing for me um the other piece of advice he gave me which was great when I was asking him yeah how should I make money from like my community the obsession stuff he's like just build a cult that's what he said and he was right and that's literally what I did with the running so it's like I didn't really understand what he meant at the time but now I do so yeah I feel like it's so bothered just to be like you ask a question expecting like a f you know a 1 Hour podcast response and he just says like a several words

26:28words and but you know he's the type of guy he's a smart dude he like he that was all I needed I actually kept that was actually the best answer um yeah I'm glad he didn't say anything else totally yeah I need I needed to I need to understand that so one person that you actually surfaced to me is a guy named Sam suik um and ever since I saw your Tweet on him it's just changed how I've seen the inter internet basically because I see it everywhere yeah I was pretty relatively early to him like I think I shouted the out like summer and now it's

27:04like you see him every day constantly every day what uh for folks who don't know about him maybe explain a little bit and and tell us why you think it's interesting and there's a trend around it yeah sure so he he's like a 20-year-old bodybuilder in Ohio just ridiculously jacked probably Juiced up uh almost definitely Juiced up um on steroids and over the last year he or in 2023 he went from like zero to I don't know what's he at two million subscribers on YouTube posting a long form video of him working out every single day and basically the reason it's caught the internet's attention is one

27:42obviously the growth but two is the type of content which is polar opposite to one it's polar opposite in many ways which usually is how you get these outlier results one is it's the opposite of all Fitness content Fitness content bodybuilding content became all about Lamborghinis and influencers and cars he just went the total opposite way I'm recording on a shitty iPhone that's cracked I don't care about clothing I don't care about anything I don't care about money I just want to lift and then number two is compared to YouTube content which is the Mr Beast this is the thumbnail the optimization it's just nope here's me um on a broke my iPhone's

28:16taped to a broken tripod um I'm just talking to the camera one take no edits totally un unedited and unoptimized and because of that it was exactly what people wanted and uh you know I've put out a bunch of tweets about him because he's really inspiring what I'm doing now with the video and uh what I'm trying to do and it's like yeah it's incredible to me what he's doing I think though and I think it's he honestly is like part of this shift happening in content now towards that raw authentic style but for most people doing that will be really really hard it's even it's happening on Instagram too

28:53like you're putting out more handwritten notes on Instagram and I think that's resonating with people more um I put out some handwritten notes uh you talking about like the post with like the handwritten style yes yeah yeah even yeah that's you're right that's kind of an example of it it's more authentic than um you know it's so for example with those before that I was just doing like tweets it was it would show my Twitter and it would show my text which is what most people do and it's insane how much better the handwriting performs dude I I literally if people aren't watching this or they're listening to it

29:27you need to watch the Youtube cuz like I just saw like the light bulb go off in your brain which is like oh my God he's right it the handwritten thing is more amate you know is the more amateur type thing there's actually two things there it's it's it is more amateur and authentic also I don't handwrite those it's it's actually just like a font but anyway it's that and it's also removing your Tweet for Instagram this is like a tactical thing that might be useful I think removing your Twitter thing is so useful because Instagram posts especially text they get shared they grow from people sharing on their

29:56stories and most people don't want to share a quote with someone's little face and Twitter at they want to share just text so if you like think about that logically it makes a lot of sense however it's hard because from a design perspective they're more used to seeing in okay this is a whole another thing but like the design of text posts on Instagram is super important and it's how I've grown my stuff and it's like you have to make something that people can recognize instantly and you want the words to hit their brain instantly right so it's like for a tweet they instantly know what that is and it versus a

30:28handwriting post if you choose the wrong font or the wrong style you're [ __ ] and they're not going to be able to read it they're just going to scroll so it's like you have to make the handwriting style as easy to read as the Tweet anyway side tangent no good tangent a lot of people listening including me are trying to figure out how to grow their Instagram I'll tell you a little a little something I'm curious your perspective I decided this week to go Rogue and I had an agency basically running my Instagram they would clip Up This pod occasionally I would like do a

31:02direct camera thing and they' post they post it on Instagram and on YouTube shorts and I didn't love how do I say this respectfully um it was ma me no it's just if I'm gonna do something I'm going to do it obsessively in your words that's the only way to grow on social media I think that's the only way to actually grow is to be completely obsessed with it and the reason I grewed a 600 thou uh sorry 360,000 followers on Twitter was because I was obsessed with the content and I shared at the time and still to this day I try to share a unique point of view

31:44and take people behind the scenes and with Instagram specifically and YouTube shorts I don't know and it's just being honest with yourself I don't know at this point how to use that short form form um like cut up long form to make it work on short form like I to me I just I felt like that was a moment in time I don't know what are your thoughts like if you were me do you think it's a mistake that I you know I'm not doing Clips short form Clips so you're not going to do any or you're saying you're going to do a different I'm just I'm

32:17gonna double down on long form that's basically what I'm saying I'm doubling down on I think I think that's smart that's kind of what I'm trying to do ra right I'm trying to take my Instagram audience to YouTube yeah um I I don't think that's wrong I think it's hard to do what you were saying which is like take a long form piece of content like a podcast and put it into a real it's hard like you're going to post a 100 clips and maybe one goes viral and others just get ignored because people are tired of seeing podcast Clips in their feed yeah right they are so it's like I think the

32:43better way to do it is just like figure out uh content specific right like Twitter you were just making tweets and that's why they did good threads and uh so yeah I don't know I'm a big fan like for Instagram like the way I view my stuff I want to have like the the pretty highly produce like edits of me like running or the animations and then on the other side almost 50/50 have just me talking to the camera no editing right I think that's a good way to do it but know I think you have the right mentality long form is I mean look I'm

33:10I'm in a unique situation I only made short form content really written content for like four years and then started doing video and then after like a month of doing video my life has completely changed so like you know I'm all in on the long form stuff yeah I I I like long form too I've also just noticed the people that listen or watch to watch long form are high quality people um like one high quality like connection with you too it's like yeah that's what I mean different completely different like such a it's so like so many people reach out watch YouTube or listen to the podcast and I just I want

33:44more of those people the way I've been explaining to people what I'm going through and I think you understand this too it's like your short form stuff builds trust especially when you do it for years right you get a lot of trust by posting every day and showing up but once you take that to a long form medium you get the connection and the connection stacks on on top of that trust and it is absolutely insane right so yeah I'm with you yeah awareness and Affinity that's that's how I describe it short fir is great for awareness and Affinity is uh is what you call it like

34:17the connection and and yeah like an analogy analogy I used the other week sorry to interrupt you is like short form is like short form is like passing someone on the street maybe say hi for a second but it's a short interaction and long form is like sitting down with them for dinner it's like oh you're really getting to know them now um Dylan Dylan even had a better analogy with that he's like Dylan Jordan he's like yeah short form is you know on the street you don't choose it it just happens to you kind of like short form scrolling on a feed but long form you're choosing to meet

34:44someone you're clicking on a video it's totally different yeah super intentional and um so I think prediction more more creators go long form is that is that what you're thinking creators and especially writers right like I think um like I think Danny Miranda put out this tweet how all these writers are now doing video including myself yeah I think like the I WR wrote how the other I think the online writer staple like that's like kind of a meme now kind of like a on Twitter I think it's so overdone and overrated for almost everybody and like you can't make any money with it and you can't build a

35:19real brand and you can't build a real trust with your audience unless you're this super unicorn which is like five people and instead I think I mean depends what you want to do but like well explain that a bit I'm curious like what do you mean by that why can't online writers do well on the internet monetize well on the internet I guess they can I just think it's hard I think it's hard and I think I don't think people are good enough writers I don't think most people are interesting enough like I said I think for the unicorns you can but like look at even someone like Dan

35:47Co right Dan Co is monetized pretty well but I think a large piece of that is from his videos he's crushing on YouTube and that's why people connect with him right it's like he I wouldn't even call him an online writer he's a kind of a he's a writer and a YouTuber right sells writing courses but he's basically a YouTuber it's like so that's what I mean it's like yeah there is like the Tim urbans of the world and the James clears of the world but outside of them there's think about the ones who build real businesses off of just their writing sure there are some newsletter guys like

36:15that I'm ignoring for sure but like for the kids starting up even me who has [ __ ] like two million followers from writing I don't really I have followers that I I most my followers came from taking my writing and putting it into videos right so even though that's why I have this thing I I've repeat over and over to people it's like strict with the message flexible with the medium it's like I just want to I this is me though I don't want to just be a writer that's why I'm out here running marathons like I want to be I want to do more more than

36:41one thing um I want to build Brands I want to do that stuff and for me to do that I think I have to build my world of obsession into every single medium and so it's like take the core that works the writing and put it into these new packages uh I don't know for me that's really exciting and I think that that's how I'm going to do everything yeah so like I said it depends on your goals but I just think for most people it's overrated I guess my realization with all this is doing multiple formats at the same time is very very difficult so you have to learn one first kind of

37:14you have to like really get one first yeah yeah it's one at a time like my mistake was I did I I was like oh I'm an online writer you know I write on Twitter and I have a newsletter I could easily do podcast short form long for you know long form like a bunch of other platforms you know Tik Tok Instagram shorts at the same time and it took some awareness to basically be like no like that that's actually a bad idea like go what like and I love that flexible with the format is that what you said flexible with the format yeah that that's what I did last year to make it

37:49super tactical last year I didn't have those videos right the animated videos that got hundreds of millions of views and I didn't have Obsession as a brand so at the same time I basically was like all right I'm going to commit to this one message but I'm going to be super flexible with the medium that I use to get the message in front of more people and that is like a thing that I don't think anyone does and and if you most people don't do either but when you do both what it got me is a ton of new new fans and a ton of actual true fans who

38:16will you know put Obsession in their bio and come to my run cult it's like that's like one of my favorite ideas I've came up with that like strict with the message flexible with the medium I think and you you've talked to me about I remember when we met in New York last year about the importance of having owning a word can you talk more about that yeah I think this is the most o underrated thing in the world for creators especially and anyone trying to make anything it's like the best people are constantly owning well what usually the best creators own one word or one

38:47specific phrase right like Ryan holiday owns stoicism jao willink I think owns discipline or or maybe leadership also he might own both of those um I think it's an extremely powerful way to build a brand because what happens is you repeat this word every single day and then people just start seeing it everywhere that's like a there's like a a scientific phrase for that where and uh especially on like Twitter it's an EMP powerful it's a very powerful brainwashing platform like that's all I'm doing every day is like brainwashing people to believe in Obsession and I think it's working you can do it Tastefully though where like I don't

39:22know you still follow me right like I'm not that annoying like it's like you can do it without being annoying um and I just think it's cuz you know what it is when you give something a name it gives someone like a a lighthouse right until then it's just like air but when you give someone a name it becomes something they can go towards something they can visualize something they could stand by something they could put in their bio like like mine um and so there's that piece there's like giving an actual name to your mission your lifestyle who you are whatever it is and then there's also

39:53like like I think you should be trying to name everything you do right like the names are like the nodes that let people share your ideas without that how do your ideas get shared it's basically impossible you're pretty good at this you're actually really good at it you're always coming up with [ __ ] like uh what is it like multipreneur um you're great at naming and so it's like you get it but a lot of people don't get this and the challenge is it's very I think very very very hard and it takes a long time yeah how do you how do you uh how do you come up with

40:21the name a good one you have to put out a ridiculous amount of stuff and wait until it's completely obious VI that's the only answer I think you have to wait until it's obvious in that other people love it you love it and no one else owns it and then there's also the thin line of you want a name that is super you know unique that you can still own it but rare enough that um sorry unique enough that you can own it but common enough that it's still in culture right like obsession is all over culture it's behind all these guys like you know Kobe

40:48and um all these people so it's like that balance so it's those three things you love it they love it and no one else has it it super hard but when I felt it it was obvious I I started like the obsession movement after a run it just hit me like oh my God this is obvious I need to tweet this like who is obsessed put a Black Flag if you're obsessed put a Black Flag in your bio and across Twitter and Instagram like thousands of people did it I didn't plan that there was no planning yeah I had like I had followup session in my bio for like a

41:16year so it was like it was ruminating but it was just boom obvious and did it and it was a good choice um so that's what I'd say it's like start paying attention to the I just said it like those three things so it's so important and that's why I think you're going to I I believe my prediction Zach you're gonna be a household name in 10 years because 10 years that it's a good timeline that's 10 years like you can beat I want to do it uh is that your goal too something like that I don't know I I I think that we're talking about you

41:50right now you know I think that I just we could race let's ra Let's Race until we're on Oprah okay is that is that the bar I I think that when you when you pick a category of one and you name the category which is what you're doing and you consistently know how to leverage social platforms to create progress and you show up every day as long as you're healthy I just don't see how you don't make Obsession every obsessed person's like Mission and and they're GNA want to play it I saw a really good tweet by um Pascal Da Silva and he said we need more Walt Disney less Elon musks

42:39um who is that who tweeted that Pascal the Silva front of yeah uh that's a good tweet it's a good tweet it like I think yeah I think it only got like a a few likes check it out you know check it out yeah cuz I mean that's exactly what I'm trying to do like at the core of dis I've everyone seen the Disney map if you're listening to this probably with all the different connected parts of their business at the core was just like what was it like animation films right and at the core of mine is World words about Obsession it's what I've done

43:08literally since day one and will never stop doing and as long as I do that right it will feed everything um I love that yeah I love that yeah I mean I think that's the thing it's like when you stick to this one word it compounds in the most insane way right because uh people instantly understand you who you've never met and so they can expl you really easily and that creates all these opportunities that happen behind you that you never see it's like oh this is Zach he's Obsession he's just trying to build the world of obsession everyone gets it instantly and uh like I've only

43:37been doing that for like really a year so like imagine five years imagine 10 uh it's a it it compounds it compounds quick you're right the word of mouth on owning a word is is massive it's especially massive when you live in New York City and you're connected with other people who are connected um you know a lot of people say like oh um okay I'll just put it out there I I mostly work remote but I think that if I lived in New York City or I lived in San Francisco you know my movements would probably go quicker and also I I I should I should say that your friend

44:15group is an obsessed friend group from what I from what I've seen Dylan Henry yeah like all those guys right yeah we basically live in the office it's it's great yeah I mean you live the lifestyle I think that if you're going to own a word whatever word you're going to own you need to live that lifestyle yeah I mean that's the most important part like I have I have this like path of obsession I've written about a little bit it's like the the seven steps that these guys like Arnold Disney they all go on and uh I'm very much living it I'm like I'm like almost halfway on it and I

44:45have to that's the only way it works but the way this really works is this is actually important on only a name the reason it's actually so important is it lets you build something bigger than you which is why people get follow follow in the first place it's because they're doing something bigger than themselves no one wants to hear people preach no one wants to hear people who make it all about them this like I I made this 20 tweet the other day I was running and this girl stopped me on the street and she just screams at me obsessed and keeps walking and I said I wonder if

45:12that girl even knows who I am I wonder if she even knows my name or if she just knows Obsession I bet you there's a good chance she doesn't even know my name she just remembers following me and seeing like Obsession this Obsession that think about that right think about that that is also I don't get recognize that much so like that was crazy and it's a perfect example it's like it gives you this thing to build that's not you anymore it doesn't even have to be a brand like I don't monetize Obsession really yet not not really so it's like that is a super important but like

45:41subtle but really important piece to it yeah it's mind share you're owning you're owning the Mind share of obsession it's worth a lot of money who else out there owns a word or owns a movement that you look up to just curious um it's tough uh like the ones I said before are big examples uh Ryan holiday Joo is kind of like my role model for how he built his businesses um just quick mention like he crushed the art and he crushed the business um one guy on Twitter is great uh this guy C bra you ever see him no Colton he's great he's like one of these Twitter

46:19guys like OG Like Money Twitter I think I think he is he might not like me calling him that but he I to me he kind of owns the he to me kind of owns the word like Misfit kind of talks about like um all these boxers like eating like [ __ ] before their fights and still crushing it like I love that I to me he kind of owns the word Misfit um I don't know there's um let me think who comes to my brain quickly okay I think of cold tubs I think of that guy on Instagram who does it every day and like smashes

46:42the thing with the dumbbell I think of him he's kind of owning cold tubs to me I think of uh I think of wealth I think of sahill I think he's trying to own that word that might just be from him like texting me that but I think he's doing a good job there like um I don't know that's sah Bloom for for people who yeah he's he's first name basis yeah we're on the first name basis exactly there's two there's two types of people in this world there's people who call Mr Beast Mr Beast and there's people who call Mr Beast Jimmy which one are you

47:11listener exactly that's fun yeah um I want to end with this and I want you to be real with me what what's keeping you up at night what are you fearful of and try to be as honest as you can so okay what am I fearful of that's like the real question right yes because I'll give you a second to think about it like from the outside and I love following you from the outside it looks like this guy has everything together he's doing all the right things he's building up these assets he's building a category of one he's in this cool friend group you know he's living

47:52in New York City he's at the center of it but what what's really keeping you up at night what do you fear um it's definitely not that does it look like that I guess it kind of looks like that I've tried to be more open with how like Reckless my life is though like I I did like sleep in the office for like two weeks um because I had to and uh what's actually keep keeping me up at night is YouTube because I'm not sleeping that much because of it I'm getting better now though that was like a rough two weeks the fear for me is two things I

48:16think it's one I choose the wrong opportunities to build first right because like now it's basically like all right what do I build first that's really like the question it's I choose the wrong opportunities and it messes up like what I'm building that scares me um I don't know number two is I guess I burn out cuz like I I genuinely unlocked like a new part of myself like about four weeks ago five weeks ago for a lot of reasons and uh one was like starting the daily videos just like committing to something extreme like that was like exactly what I needed like unlock like a

48:44new part of me so I think the Fe there is a fear of like burning out if like I can't keep going but I don't think that will happen I feel like that's like this is not Obsession you don't burn out I don't know this is just me being honest I'm afraid of getting hurt if I get hurt I can't really do the running thing which is going to be like that's like a massive part of like everything I want to build over the next 5 10 years that will be hard it's really like the first thing I think is this the biggest worry right now I'm still trying to figure it

49:09out like I need to make more money to like build make the stuff I want to make it's like that simple like I want to hire a videographer right now A videographer is not free so like I have to go get that money somewhere it's like how do I go get that money um it's like doing the right things because I think I said yes to Opportunities last year right and especially in terms of like brand sponsorships that really put me back in terms of like I had this compounding thing going right with my content and it just like just like stopped me and uh so yeah that's the

49:38fear I think on on the money piece I I once heard this concept called mailbox money that I like using which is how do you have a project or a set of projects that every sing you know every day every week every couple weeks you just have your bills paid for so that you can do the the thing that you really want to be doing it hits the mailbox every single day every single week I love that I didn't I've never had that really I have that with the agency now that's kind of like why I want to start it um yeah so I think yeah I think

50:11you're going to start to I think you're starting to see a lot more people interested in cash flow portfolio of cash flowing businesses um AI is definitely going to if it speeds up software creation which it is I think there's tons of opportunity to create mailbox money projects and that's like case in point who owns the term mailbox money right I never heard the term it's it's so great though that should be a book 100% that should be a book on building those uh on you should build it maybe it's like you should make it that should totally be a that should be a book or a course you

50:45should go take that did you come up with that someone once told me it uh it's your the person the person the person that told me it I'll give credit is the actually co-founder of hoote Dario Melly he he was the one he was like I was telling him about a project I was involved in and how it was just like paying me monthly and kind of like covering my bills and he was like oh you talking about mailbox money I was like what are you talking about mailbox money I was like no no no it's like it's like this like project and and he's like yeah

51:18yeah it covers your bills you don't have to worry about you know your bills yeah it's amazing I never really had that in my life I always sold like my first business was like a basically a service people only book once which is like kind of the worst type of service mailbox money is the goal mailbox money is sick yeah and I think for a lot of folks their full-time job is their mailbox money true and the problem is it's difficult I don't know about you but it was hard for me like I I had a job you know when I've had jobs in my life it

51:49was hard for me to like create projects on top of it um like if I'm working like I obsessed like you and I if I'm if I'm working on something I'm Allin so it's hard to like do a lot of side projects um so I think that's the tough part about having a job yeah I never had a job but probably because I'm obsessed I would rather just have like no money and like not sleep and have a job but yeah I don't know that's just me not saying I recommend it people who have jobs mailbox money is possible but difficult um and I think 2024 year of mailbox money

52:30um Zach thank you for taking the time and for coming on the show thank you that was fun we ripped some some good ideas in there hopefully maybe yeah absolutely I think yeah people let us know Post in the in the YouTube comments if you if you liked any of the ideas um or if you have any ideas for uh one words that you want to own and uh where could people get to know you a little bit more best place to get to know me is my YouTube uh just Zach pogb you could probably find it by searching that and uh that's you know I'm doing a video every single day

53:04this year trying to make them all long form they mostly have been like over like 10 minutes um but my biggest platform is Instagram pretty active on stories there lately um Zach pogb and Twitter Twitter is like my favorite platform though for like you know the the cult I'm trying to build and like just like like I said brainwashing like non-stop if you follow my Twitter it's very low chance you won't get obsessed um so take that as a warning but yeah I think uh everyone should go follow th follow you there not just to be interested in in the great content you're putting up but also like to me

53:40you're building like the blueprint for how so many brands are going to be created in the future and how so many I think there's going to be like a Zach PO for X it's worth studying and it is funny like no creators not interrupt you like very few people are doing the name thing and I just think it's so important totally blows me blows me away you do it you're like one of the only ones um because I love names I love names it's the best dude coming up with names is the best [ __ ] game ever and only people who do it understand it but it is

54:11an infinite game it never ends and is so hard yeah yeah yeah it's it's definitely underrated uh a good name is totally underrated and I I tweeted this recently which is premium domains are actually underrated in my opinion I think so too yeah um we didn't need to buy multipreneur decom but we did because it was just like it's just sick I get sick it makes your brand look sick it's like yeah yeah I don't know I'm a fan and the other thing about premium domains uh quick quick tactical thing for folks is that you can lease them a lot of them so you know if you find a domain that you

54:48really like and you're like I don't want to I can't afford $50,000 for this domain a lot of them you can go and offer them hey I I can pay you $1,000 a month or $1,500 a month so heard that that's that's smart yeah yeah all right man I'll catch you I'll catch you in New York let's go stay

55:16obsessed