🎯How Babbel Manages 50+ Creators | Influence Unpacked Ep. 4

0:00Welcome to Influence Unpacked with Marian Balinoff. The series where we explore what drives success in influencer marketing for mobile apps and games. Influence Unpacked is powered by Appsflyer, bringing you insights from top marketers who innovate, elevate, and succeed. Today I'm joined by Salame, paid social and influencer marketing manager at Babel. Hi Salame, thank you

0:21very much for joining me today. Hi. Yeah, it's my pleasure. I'm really excited. Amazing. And before we get started, can you present yourself? tell us more about your journey in marketing. Yeah, sure. I started doing uh marketing around four or five years ago. Actually, when I was working at Bolt, it was one of the first projects to start influencer marketing for that team and that's how I started to tap my toes uh and uh understand how it works and I

0:46fell in love with influencer marketing. I fell in love with working with creators. So then I decided to move to Berlin and join bubble where I started like implementing uh wider strategies just working with bigger influencers and also a lot of like different type of influencers. And uh right now I work as paid social and influencer marketing manager. So, it's kind of like a joint role and uh 50% of influencers and then 50% of like paid social campaigns which is really fun, interesting and um yeah

1:18it's really really diverse. Amazing. Thank you very much for for sharing some context. Um, so before we get started, I love to ask guests about like what's the setup that they have internally in the company that they work for in terms of like influencer marketing activities because from one company to another, you might have one person, you might have a team of 10 people, you might have people handling everything themselves, you might have people handling everything with agencies. So I'd love to understand more like what the scope of what you do

1:45um and how is it organized at Babel. Yeah, sure. So we try to approach influencer marketing more on personal basis and what I mean here is that we don't outsource our efforts to any external agency. We try to keep this one-on-one contact with influencers and actually personally like do scouting and uh onboarding and contracting all those stages with each influencer like individually which is as you can imagine very time consuming energy consuming and also for the bigger picture. We work with a lot of creators around like 50 or even more sometimes on a monthly basis to negotiate to work with uh them like on a one-on-one basis. It's uh really

2:31really requiring a lot of effort. uh but it's just uh it comes with an experience I suppose and uh once you start building your network and you have a lot of connections around you then it becomes really easy to onboard them because they kind of already know the product they don't need so much convincing they already know the drill and it becomes like very smooth and really fun and exciting and at this point I feel like uh even though it's very very time consuming it's also very rewarding and once you see the outcome of those campaigns, then you feel very validated and you're more excited to do more. But

3:08yeah, on a daily basis, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of talking, it's a lot of negotiating and it's also a lot of tracking. So, it's not just emails, it's also just checking the numbers and how the campaign works. If something is not working, fixing it. It's just a lot of also like background tasks that probably are not super visible or obvious. So yeah, especially the when you work in performance marketing, it requires a lot of trucking. Yeah, definitely. So you were mentioning having like 30 to 50 creators a month going live. That's obviously a lot. Um how timeconuming

3:42certain tasks during that process are. Um have you ever considered like working with agencies or with the help of different tools and what was like how did you wait the the decision there? Yeah, I mean in the beginning we really try to just have this personal connection with creators, but like nowadays it's very common that almost every influencer has like a manager or the agency that's managing them. So it's kind of like impossible to sometimes have this one-on-one connection with them and we are working with a lot of agencies that are like exclusive

4:15representatives of those influencers. And sometimes it's really beneficial because then the same agency is also representing other really talented creators and then it becomes like really easy really smoothly uh to start working with brand new creators because the agency already knows the brand. They already know what we want to see in the campaigns and it becomes like very trustbased. So I have had a few experiences like that especially in Germany where I worked with uh specific agencies for almost 3 years or even four and yeah at this point it's like we don't even have to say anything. It's very straightforward but I always try to keep the opportunity to have the final

4:58say whenever they propose new influencers or whenever the content should go live. Okay. Yeah, that that makes sense. you you were mentioning uh earlier something that I think is really important to take into consideration when doing influence marketing is the fact that Babel is a very established brand right so people know about it so when you reach out to creators I suppose as you said like there's not that much convincing to do at least for those that are interested in working with with you and and this is something that I see can be very different because for example some of my clients are mobile games and

5:30within mobile games I have some clients that are casino sort of titles and So those are very very difficult to market with influencers because there's less and less influencers that want to advertise mobile games. I've seen this sort of trend like in in the past couple years and on top of that if you want to have them advertise like a casino game and I think it's even harder. So you've mentioned having 30 to 50 creators going live every month. Um can you tell us more about like the strategy? what sort of platforms are you going live uh with and what type of vertical what what's performing best and what can you advise

6:04for someone that has not necessarily an educational app but like an app in general. We actually have a really good mix when it comes to platforms because we try to be present on almost every social media platform. So um basically we work on Instagram, on Meta, on Tik Tok, on Snapchat on Pinterest. We also tested a little bit Twitch but um it's still in the testing phase. So we try to be present everywhere but like when it comes down to performance then I would say Instagram is our machine and also YouTube because these two platforms are really really bringing really positive results and then I would say like Tik

6:45Tok or Snapchat is kind of like um secondary channels for us. it's more like for awareness and just building this like uh fullfunnel campaigns but when it uh comes down to like conversion campaigns which we usually do business as usual then it's mostly Instagram and YouTube we work with lifestyle creators or travel creators because it's so easy to connect our message with someone who travels a lot for example and wants to learn local language so they want to order something in Spanish or they want to talk to someone in Italian. It kind of like hand inhand goes with traveling but also with lifestyle like some influencers who are just doing regular

7:26like vlogs or sharing their daily tips or something that's like very casual that also works for us because then these type of creators have such a strong bond with their audience like the audience is very engaged and they trust uh the creators. So when it comes to them sharing tips and sharing some tricks or some good apps that they should use then it's really easy to naturally and authentically integrate bubble into their content and it doesn't really show off as uh advertisement. I think that's really important because the audience knows when it's like too salesy, too advertisementy and uh it's not authentic overall. Of course. Of

8:06course. So you mentioned Instagram and then YouTube are definitely the two platforms for which you uh are seeing the best performance. How do you look at performance? How do you track performance on those social media platform? Which type of content do you do? Um because I think it's it's a it's the probably the biggest problem in influencer marketing and how do we track performance? Yeah. Yeah. For Instagram stories for example, we do um just like um just one time placement for example and uh in the slides influencer usually includes the tracking link and then once the story is live then the user can just simply click on the tracking link and

8:42they will be automatically redirected to the landing page that's specifically connected to this influencer with UTM parameters. So we know exactly how much conversions we are getting from this specific influencer. what is the track uh traction or how many leads we are getting we see everything through the tracking link and uh yeah once the user lands on this landing page it's more personalized like which language you want to learn for what purposes how much time you want to spend on it so it's like very personalized journey when the user is also signing up so we have as much information as possible and then also the same strategy on YouTube kind

9:19of because it's easy to put the link in the description box and uh it's the same logic a user clicks on it and goes to the landing page. But what's tricky is that sometimes when we do Instagram res for example or Tik Tok, it's not possible to put link uh link in the caption. And uh for those reasons, sometimes we try to for example do buyouts or um to uh do some kind of like usage rights. So we have the right to boost their content and then once we're boosting it with partnership ads or with spark ads on Tik Tok then it's easy uh when the content appears as an ad then

9:54there is already CTA button and then the it's easy to purchase basically because otherwise without the link it's so hard for the customer to find out where should they go what should they do and yeah we've tested voucher codes couple of times but so far uh it's still in the testing phase. Okay. Okay. So, that means like you're not necessarily driving app downloads, right? You want to drive people to a landing page where they fill a form, you get more information about them, they subscribe or not, and then I guess that's a retargeting strategy. Yeah. And then after that, they download the app to then consume the the content and and get

10:32started. All right. Um, something you also mentioned previously and I was taking notes at the same time. You mentioned Pinterest. You're the first guest that is mentioning Pinterest. So I would love to hear what's your take on P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P Pinterest, what's the sort of uh format of like the sponsoring, how does pricing look like compared to other platforms and any feedback that you have. Yeah, on Pinterest actually we did something like a buyout strategy because that's how we started testing it. So basically the creator that we were working with anyway

11:02for a buyout campaign for Meta and Tik Tok, then we included Pinterest as well. So the content that we got from this creator then we started using the same content in our Pinterest campaign. So it ran as a paid ad. So it didn't really look like organic influencer collaboration but it looked more like a paid uh ad I would say. It's still like

11:23very small platform for us I would say. So we don't have so much uh budget and we don't put so much effort into it but we still try to be a little bit present with UGC content that's pushed as as an ad. All right. Yeah, that makes sense because in the end like Pinterest I find like the the possibilities for like sponsoring like an organic reach are still pretty limited. I think it's growing and I think there's definitely a really big audience there that um we need to find ways of like reaching and and obviously um and and monetize for someone that has an app that is a

11:59subscription app like yours. What would you say are the main KPIs that you look into for performance when you run campaigns with influencers? Yeah, I mean for my experience right like the campaigns are mostly lower funnel. So for this reason we mostly look at ROI so return on investment and then we also look at new sales revenue. So all the revenue we get from the placement. These are the two main KPIs that we track on a daily basis. But I remember like in the beginning we also tracked uh CPO so cost per order. But then once the team grew, the budgets grew, then we had uh more um

12:38flexibility when it comes to CPO and we don't really look at it that much anymore. So I think it depends on the campaign type like what kind of campaign you're running and if it's slower funnel then I would definitely suggest to just uh mostly look at ROI so you have general idea if the campaign is fail or not and I mean if the campaign is optimizing for leads then definitely check leads or if it's optimizing for app installs then yeah I think it really

13:06it's specific for the campaign type. Okay. And and for return on investment like how fast do you find your campaigns to be profitable? Because obviously so like on Instagram the story is live for 24 hours. If you do an in a YouTube video it's live lifetime. So is this the same sort of period for both or how do you look at it? Yeah I mean as you said like Instagram stories disappear after 24 hours. So yeah I mean if you want to wait for one week it's not going to change. It's going to be the same result. So yeah, I would say like after 1 day or two, you can already see the

13:38results of this Instagram story. But if we're talking about YouTube integration, then I would say the time frame is much longer. Like on YouTube, you kind of have this like longtail effect. So you might not see the results coming directly like after a week or two weeks, but then after a month, you see that it's really picking up. But honestly, I have had the few instances where I could see insane numbers after 2 days or 3 days on YouTube and then it kind of goes viral and the performance like picks up really fast. If the integration is really authentic and really correlates with the overall video idea, I think

14:16that's when you see results directly. That's when the user is instantly converting because they see this like seamless connection and authentic connection with what influencer is saying generally in the video and how this product placement is complementing the overall video concept. Yeah, we had one influencer like this in Germany and um it was insane because his video was basically saying that um just 10 tips to level up your everyday life and one of the tip was to learn a new language with Babel and it it was just so authentic and so logical the placement that even if I didn't know that it was a placement I would definitely click on a link and I

14:57would definitely do it because yeah overall idea of the video was very positive beneficial for the placement And we still see some results coming in from this video which was over a year ago. So YouTube has very very like long-term effect. Yeah, that's that's every marketer's dream, right? Answering a video that then goes virals generate millions of views or just has this massive engagement. But like how often would you say this happens? Like realistically, is this one piece of content per campaign? Is it once per quarter, once per year? Just for people to understand like how likely is it to happen? Yeah. Um, from my experience, I

15:36would say on average once or twice in a year. Like it's really rare that you get such a viral campaign. And I honestly think that it's quality over quantity. Even if it happens once or twice, it's still worth it because it has such a positive impact overall on the brand itself. Then you start to see all the other effects that comes with it. For example, after this campaign was alive and it was success, we received so many other creators coming to us and asking to collaborate because that also increases the brand affinity and reputation and then everyone wants to work with you. So you don't have to

16:13manually scout and you save time and energy on scouting and yeah right now we have this huge pool of creators who wait like who who want to work with us and who are eager to that's amazing like a really 360 benefits of like on that specific video. I think it's it's uh really amazing that you have so many creators wanting to work with you because obviously it makes a huge difference to begin with like in terms of negotiations cuz then you're not the one contacting them. They want to work with you. They're going to be more interested in creating good content cuz they want to work with you, right? So

16:48overall the whole process has a different sort of take. You were mentioning Instagram stories, right? So my personal experience working on Instagram stories with mobile game has been a little bit of a roller coaster in a sense. I found many issues along the way. Um I'd love to hear your thoughts um on that and see how you might be doing things differently. Um, usually what I do for mobile games, um, is asking the creators for three sets of stories or three frames, let's say, with the last one having a link to download, but just to have a little bit more space to tell a proper story, right? And what

17:26I find really complicated is to sort of estimate the views that those stories are going to get, right? So, I'm usually working with different agencies because I don't have the time myself to handle all the creators. And so I would ask those agencies to provide me with screenshots of the last sort of few stories that they've posted so I get an

17:46average of how many views they they get. I usually would lowball that to try and get like really conservative. Sometimes when the stories go live they will underdel by sometimes 50% by sometimes 75% in terms of views. And obviously my CPM is through the roof and clearly there's no shot for me to no chance for me to reach profitability with those numbers. I'm I'm wondering like what's your take on Instagram stories? What's the sort of format that you that you work with? Do you see similar issues uh with the views and if not is tell me your secrets. Yeah. Well, I mean I agree completely with like a story reach

18:25because it's so important to just have the idea beforehand like how many people will see the story and if the CPM makes sense. So yeah, from the beginning I try to negotiate the CPM as low as possible. But also after all I feel like as much as you try to control it, it's always

18:42hit or miss with influencer marketing. Like sometimes it just really fails and it's nobody's fault. It can be an algorithm or it can be a bug on the platform. It can be something just went wrong. And yeah, from my experience, I try to just have this low CPM, like lower it as much as possible. Even if it's like lower than our internal cap, I still try to like negotiate even lower price. What's the average CPM that you

19:07have just for people to get an idea? Yeah, it's for us it depends on the region like on the country. So for example in D region it's a higher CPM because influencers are more expensive and it's around like €50 or in Italy it can be lower like €20. So it really yeah it depends on a country. Um and yeah I mean once the CPM is kind of under control and you tried your best to lower it then I try to give them the guidelines of what they should include in the story because I think the story has to be like very authentic. It's not real. It's like a different format. It's

19:43more like talking just straight to the camera just sharing opinion. It doesn't have to be like a I don't know directly uh lead setup like it's more a friend sharing something with you that's more genuine and more authentic. So I give them as much freedom as possible and they come up with the idea and then I try to have this like approval process once they are done with the content and they send it to me. I try to see if this is actually something that I would like to see on the story and uh it really comes down to like this intuition feeling and how you feel about it and

20:21then most of the times it works. There has been some instances where the CPM is really through the roof and you cannot do much about it. Like the only thing you can negotiate is like maybe additional story for free or like a reminder story for free with like the same uh tracking link and same CTA but there is not much you can do after the story is live. Also in the beginning it should not be very strict. You also have to like let it go. Like it has to be more on a trust based and the only thing you can just control is to check the

20:54content before it goes live. So maybe you detect something that looks a bit weird or doesn't sit right. But yeah, I mean we also tried to guide influencers to include maybe like shots of them actually using the app or showing the app interface. But on stories it's something that maybe doesn't work because then yeah it's kind of like not so authentic. If you post it on reals yes if you post it on Tik Tok could also work but for stories it has to be just

21:23like us right now talking to each other. Exactly. Right. Because technically they would use their own phone to then record whatever they're doing. So then if they also have another phone which maybe they do they have a couple phones whatever but then it might not seem as as authentic. Right. Um you were mentioning make goods. Um, so negotiating with an influencer like an extra piece of condom. I think it's really good for people to understand that this is possible and then you can request or at

21:47least ask for some sort of compensation. You're not going to get a discount most likely because that's not how it works and you will always get push back at least from my experience. But at least like a make good post is it's a good sort of compensation. I was going to ask you about the best practices. You mentioned like potentially a shot of them and having really like authentic content and you and you give them the freedom. I was wondering if there's anything specific that can be really random, performs really well and you've tried to replicate because from my experience like I've had one creator on

22:15Instagram in stories that's performing like incredibly and the and the shot was just her in the car like going somewhere and just like saying oh I'm going whatever I don't remember and so I've downloaded this game etc. and it it performed really well. Obviously, it's because of the influencer, but we try to replicate this setting of like being in the car and talking to the to the camera like that. So, I was wondering if there's anything similar or not that that you might have seen. Yeah, I think I would say that just sharing a personal story. That's what works the best when it comes to Instagram stories. So yeah,

22:47it's basically influencers talking straight to the camera and like really sharing their personal journey and then like connecting this to the app or just like a random story that's connect that's not connecting to the app but then somehow it's like a problem and then the app is coming in as a problem solution or something like this. So it's uh more like influencer becoming personal with their journey more open and a bit like vulnerable and then there comes the uh product or something they want to advertise and it just uh creates this like trustworthy environment I think and especially when it's on Instagram and it's disappearing after 24

23:27hours I feel like sometimes it's also creating the urgency elements when the creator when the user sees the creator is sharing some kind of personal journey they are also like talking about this app, it's kind of like more instant that the person will click on it because they are afraid that it will disappear and uh I've seen that this like personal journey like personal tips, personal experience with the app um this really helps to convert more people. That's perfect leading to my next question. I was going to ask what's your take on where do you want to place the sort of brand logo or like when do you want to

24:00start talking about the app itself or the the product, right? because and I think you were saying like it's better to start with a personal story and issue something. So then obviously the audience gets hooked wants to know more and then afterwards then comes to a sponsored content or have you seen that in maybe some other cases if you start straight away with with the the app or the product do you see that it works as well? Yeah, I would say it also depends on a content format. So if it's story then yeah you don't have so much time to talk about a lot of things. So you kind

24:32of have to get straight to the point. Even though it doesn't have to be like from the first second, but let's say if we do like um I don't know, let's say 45 seconds of the story, then it should not be later than 30 seconds. It should not be last 15 seconds. But with YouTube, I would say it depends on the overall video and it can be in the like in the middle for example or in the second half. I would say like in the middle it's better but not like very of the viewership uh going down throughout the video and like missing out on some of

25:05the views. I would say no because from my experience like when uh like user logs in on YouTube they have more like this like a TV mindset. You know what I mean? Like they want to watch something as we would open Netflix. they want to watch their favorite YouTuber talking about some tips or just showing their daily life. Like also from my experience when I watch a YouTube video I watch it completely like because my intention to watch it like fully and uninterruptedly while for example on Tik Tok the attention span is like 2 seconds. So

25:38obviously people are going to scroll. So, it depends on a platform. It depends on the content format. But I would say like placing the product in the first couple of seconds or couple of minutes. It's just too much and it really comes off like very salesy and people just don't like it. They just want to have

25:54this like authentic connection with it. Exactly. It really has to be building with the content and even better when you know it's really throughout the video in a really organic way, not just even like a sponsored content. In some cases it's not really doable but for some products or apps I think and depending on the video obviously like it can be really integrated like tied really into the content. You were mentioning earlier a sense of urgency in which made me think about discount codes and stuff like that. Is this something that you've tested? Um actually like every single time we have like even business as usual campaign it's always

26:30like some kind of offer that we advertise. So it's always like the CTA is always like I don't know get your lifetime subscription for uh half price like 50% off. So it's always very like uh uh hooky uh CTA. So it's always like a good deal. It's good discount and that helps us uh to get uh more conversions. U but we also but nothing necessarily tied with the influencer as in like use my code influencer name and get this. I mean we tried this couple of times. It's a bit complicated because there is like really high chance of fraud and then sometimes the codes get like viral and

27:07it's just getting like very that's a big problem. Yeah, it's so we are trying to figure it out how to make this as smooth as possible. Uh but so far we've been only working with tracking things. Something that we touched upon in our uh prior discussion with the was UGC, right? So um you mentioned especially for reals and on Tik Tok, right? Like negotiating the usage rise. Can you tell us a bit more about your strategy around this? Yeah, I mean I think it really comes from the perspective of me having this joint role and doing like paid social and influencer marketing and that gave me the opportunity to like

27:43experiment with basically like doing the content buyouts from uh creators and then putting it internally in our campaigns and running it as an ad. So for this I really prefer to work with really small nano creators and I feel like uh they are getting neglected most of the times or brands prefer to just work with them on a commission basis and they don't see like huge potential that they have because first of all they have very niche audiences but even if we don't want to utilize their audience the content that they produce it's very very authentic and very cheap once you get your content for I don't know

28:19€200500 and then you run this content for next 6 months as your paid ad. It just gives a lot of control over the content because you manage the spend, you manage the audiences, you show it to wider audiences and then at the same time, let's say for 6 months, you don't have anything else to do with this creator and you don't have to like every day on a daily basis stay in touch with them, talk to them, negotiate something else. So, I think it's like very sustainable approach when it comes to influencer marketing. Of course, it's a win-win. Yeah, it's a win-win. And you can really see this in their content

28:51that they want to do this so much. And uh it's easier to negotiate because uh there's no not so much push back from them while working with bigger creators. It's a lot of negotiation, a lot of like different legal clauses and um Oh, that's Well, that's perfect because that leads me actually to my next question, which was um about like the bigger creatives that you work with that they post on their social media. You're really happy with the content and you think this could perform really well in in paid ads. Do you have some sort of like either rule or like range for like

29:22usage price uh usage right prices? Because I see sometimes like I would ask a creator and they quote me like the same fee than the the price that we've paid them for the piece of content. Some of them it's 80%, some of them it's 20%. So like what's your strategy there? Yeah, it's a similar experience. I would say it's super hard with big creators especially when you book something I don't know let's say reals and then you want to add on some usage rights on top of that it's just almost impossible to get down to normal price but I would say just like like my advice would be not

29:59start with usage rights from the beginning with the big creators like first try organic placements try I don't know story something that's like cheapest and see like how it works and then if you see that numbers are great maybe you can risk a little bit more and you can also use this strategy with them to say that we want to work with you long term so let's just lower the price a little bit because for the next 6 months we are not going to pay so much money like roughly speaking so I think that's my like strategy in every campaign to test first to test the

30:32grounds and see how it works organically and then risk more and like try other things especially with big creators like it's really costly and it's really risky. So I would not recommend it. And do you see that it makes a different the sort of scope of the usage? Right? Whether it is just for the US, whether it is worldwide, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 12 months. Do you sometimes because I've seen that as well. Do they ask for how much budget are you going to put behind the ads? So then they can go like the the the rate that they're going to share with you. Yeah, they they want

31:05to know everything. So basically how much money you're going to spend on a on a daily spend. How many people will sit? So what's the audience size or where the people will sit? So what's the location like? Is it DH? Is it just Italy or is it Europe or is it just like worldwide? So they want to know everything and based on that they try to quote their like additional price. So in those cases I try to like start very local like very let's say just Germany like just like smaller audiences. So yeah, in the beginning it's just really risky to say that yeah, let's do all of that and then

31:40it comes like later if you see that this is working really well, you can extend the rise and then it's like more often very cheap like compared to initial phrases. Yeah. No, that definitely makes sense. I think it it's really important as you said like test first restrict a little bit the the parameter how long you want to test it. test the waters, see if it works because maybe it's not even gonna work. Like it worked organically on the influencers's account because they know the influencer, they know like their tone of voice, their humor, their everything. And then if you take it this outside, then it might not

32:12work anymore. So, it's not always worth like putting a lot of money behind usage, right? Because you think it's going to really work. And sometimes even your gut feeling can be tricky because um it might resonate with you, but maybe you're not really the audience that you're going to reach out to. So yeah, I think uh yeah, it was just something about like negotiating the also like highlighting the fact that it's your spend that's going to come on top of that as a like a campaign spend right sometimes they don't understand that. I don't know if that's been a experience with you, but for example, when I try to

32:45negotiate this and I explain that like a campaign spend is coming from our end, like this is our media spend that's going to be behind it on a daily basis, then kind of like sometimes the conversation changes because they see that we are the ones who are like investing extra into the content and it's not just about them giving us the usage rights to use the content. I don't know like sometimes maybe it's a bit confusing for them too to understand if they don't have any experience with paid campaigns. So sometimes like a bit of over explanation helps to show them the bigger picture. Yeah. Make them

33:16understand it's going to be one ad into one campaign with all the all the spend. I think we can do the quickfire round of questions if that works with you. Is there anything else that we wanted to cover? No, I think we touched it. I think it was great honestly. I really like it. I think you shared a lot and I

33:33really really appreciate it. All right, Solom, so before we wrap up the episode, I wanted to ask you a few more questions and if you can answer with your sort of top of- mind answers. Okay. Yeah, sounds good. All right. So, what's one thing marketers should stop doing in influencer marketing? Yeah, I would say outsourcing everything. Yeah, I I've seen this a lot that brands just don't pay so much attention to influencer marketing because it takes so much time to actually like see results and then they rather like outsource like give it everything to the agency and then the connection is lost and there is

34:12no mutual understanding, mutual trust. There are like too many parties involved in the middle and it just doesn't create the authentic content which is significant part of the whole influencer marketing. Um, next, what's one strategy or sort of tactic that you would recommend for marketers that are starting to do influencer marketing? I would recommend them to like start testing first. I mean, we've talked about it a lot, but I I feel like it's so important and I've seen this from my experience that not everyone does that and they just want to make it easy for them and I don't know, book a six months collaboration without testing the

34:49creator. I think testing is really really important. Okay, perfect. Thank you very much for that. And then last question, what's a proven approach that marketers should keep in their playbook? Yeah, I mean um I would say to have a good mix of everything and I mean that you can have good mix of different platforms like you can have Instagram, YouTube, don't stick with one platform because it works really well or don't stick with one size of influencers because you know that macro influencers are working the best. I think if you want your team to grow, if you want to see like a great results from influencer

35:22marketing, you have to like have a good mix and try different new things like try nano influencers, try mega influencers, try Snapchat, try Pinterest like All right. So don't let any stone unturned basically and look everywhere you can. Exactly. Perfect. Well, thank you so much Salame for all your insights today. I think it's very very valuable. I really appreciate it. Uh where can people find you and learn more about your work? They can connect to me on LinkedIn. I'm really active there. I write some articles, some interesting articles with insights on influencer marketing. So they can also check that and yeah, I'm really enjoyed our talk. It was really

36:03really interesting and I hope that I shared some interesting insights as well for people who who are listening this. You definitely did. You definitely did. Okay, so that's it for today's episode of Inference Unpacked. If you found this helpful, don't forget to like, share, and follow for quick, actionable tips on influencer marketing for mobile apps and games. If you're looking to dive deeper,

36:23check out my guide on the Apps website. It covers everything from setting up your first influencer campaign to best practices and tools to measure your success. You'll find the link in the post. Um, and see you next time. Thank you very much. Thank you so much.