From Zero to Millions: Danny Postma Reveals AI App Strategies for Success

0:00all right so let's start with I think one of the most interesting projects I've seen this year which is this model does not exist dot Co so I came across this uh if you go to the website it's this uh model generated by AI called A-list is that how I pronounce it I guess so yeah and it's this idea that it's an Instagram account with a new photo of a of a virtual influencer but it's not like Lil Michaela if you've seen one of those that kind of look fake like it looks real you know she's got blonde hair she looks like I can touch her and she's a real person well I

0:43wonder how many guys already fall in love with her I'm sure many guys have fallen in love with her and one of the most interesting things about it is you have this section where it says help me pick tomorrow's photo so basically the way this product works is a new photo is generated by A-list every 15 minutes you upvote your favorite photo and the one that gets most upvoted goes on the Instagram is that correct yeah well there was a plan and then until people started uploading all the messed up and messed up photos so now it's basically like one of the most upvoted photos gets

1:20uploaded to the Instagram why what happened exactly people were this is basically the the first photo is uh is her with two hats on top of each other with Cai likes to do sometimes sometimes the eyes are a bit messed up uh especially the hands it's not a good enhance but I think there's only like five percent of the photos ten percent the other 90 are pretty pretty well off but people like to upvote stupid things in the internet right think about Brody mcboatface right and and how how did you create this product how long did it take you could you talk a little bit about the process

1:55of building this from concept to pressing publish so building the product like this product I didn't I think a morning one afternoon but it's basically because I already built a tech before it with Provo picture.ai it's already had the upload functions I knew how to do the models um so I was just basically building the website and basically what it does is I just grabbed a bunch of photos from stalgun which is a it's an AI that generates like millions of fake people that don't exist uh it's pretty known generated dot photo I think it's a website that uses the AI for example so just grabs a bunch of

2:35women that look the same uploaded them into my training tool pick the ones that look like each other trained it again and basically then this this one person that looks always the same uh just came out and I've been using that to generate the photos with like why did you do this project like why is it exciting to you to build a virtual influencer so I don't I don't like the typical way of doing marketing because it's quite boring uh I'm not good in it I have tried ads advertisement I suck an advertisement the only thing I'm good in this SEO so what I like to do is I like

3:13to create products like launch mini products as a marketing so I was thinking all right so my tool is profile pictures it's basically what what was this model product is but then you can do it for your own face for other people I was like okay what is a great way to bring some attention to it and what is a fun project to hack on when I'm when I get bored and I was like maybe I should just create a fake influencer let the community upvote for it maybe some other website would pick it up because it's something novel it's something new and then basically just put a few banners

3:45every 15 photos to my main products and use it as a marketing channel um and it brings quite some Revenue which is quite fun and the plan eventually was to like maybe monetize the technology behind this I might do it still one day because it's quite exciting uh but for now it's like it's it's on the back partner you know it's five years from now you're scrolling on Instagram what percentage of your feed is virtual influencers like this how fast this is going now I'm pretty sure like I think social media how we know it is going to be dead in five years because everything is going to be

4:22fake so either people Gonna Love It Or No One's Gonna use it because it's going to be a black forest effect like everything is AI so why would you interact with a post if you can be 95 sure that this is a fake person that's hacking the algorithm I wonder if if you look at like Lil Michaela's Instagram for example Lil Michaela I think is probably the most popular virtual influencer in the world she still gets tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of likes per Post Yeah but I reckon it's because it's a novelty right it's it's one of a kind it's a one thing

5:00what if yeah but it can go both ways what if your whole feet is going to be AI generated what if you're talking with AIS to comments are AI like you don't even know if you're interacting with a real person or not it can go both waves another way to think about it is in a world where you go into coffee shops and it's all robots like it's just a robot arm serving you and making you a latte or an espresso if they make you an incredible latte exactly how you like it would you tip that robot I mean I'm from Holland we don't tip so

5:38I think that's the easy the easy answer here it depends right if you go to Starbucks you don't you don't care if it's served by a robot or whatever because it's like you want to go there you know what a taste is so you come for it but if you're going for a like a local experience you know of course you want you want a barista you can talk with so yeah it it depends I guess see my taste my take on the virtual influencers and engagement with virtual influencers my thesis is that people will still have that same level of connection with these people because they're invested in the

6:14story like look at what's happening with I'm sure you've seen what's happening uh with twitch with that Seinfeld uh AI show rest in peace rest in peace can you actually talk a little bit about how it works and so I don't know how it works so it would be like full speculations but I guess they just use openai gpt3 to just generate a lot of content and then have a narrator to to turn it text to voice I guess that's how it works it's basically for those of you who haven't seen it it's basically an AI generated endless Seinfeld parody so you go on Twitch it's actually banned right now

6:53it'll it'll come back in a few weeks but that's another story it's banned because well let me just get into it the the AI uh they had switched from chat GPT to another AI model and when they did the switch there wasn't the same level of content moderation so it ended up doing some horrible transphobic and homophobic uh jokes but basically people were going on this twitch and they were seeing these AI generated version of Seinfeld and there were thousands of people commenting thousands of people tweeting about it at any given time and it was one of the most viewed twitch channels and it just goes to show

7:35you that there's this demand for AI generated content and there's connection that exists between viewer and content well but don't you think that in five years hypothetically like why do you need content creators if if tick tock tick tock already knows so well what you like what is your interests like why would you need content creators if the AI models are so fast and gpus are so fast like why do you need anyone to create content for you if you can just create it on the Fly personalized towards you I think that's where the future is going to go to yeah I think if if AI could create better

8:14content and when and I Define better content as content that connects more with the audience then there's no place for me and you to post on Instagram yeah well it's already happening right it's like these Minecraft video backgrounds with Reddit posts um that's basically being narrated and there's millions and millions and millions of views and people have no clue it's AI generated but people basically there's one like one bot that just uploads thousands and thousands of videos and sees what gets sticky and that's what gets shows to people yeah exactly so I think that's a trend that's that's just begun and I think with uh A-list

8:53uh your product this model does not exist I I you know I could see this taking off like what does success look like for you with this product so it's still my mind to turn this into a tool to let other people create their own influencers their own characters and whatever with it I think that's pretty interesting people have already reached out on DMS to me like how can I create my own so that's an interesting point like an interesting way to go to but for now yeah it was just like a fun project man I I probably have 80d like I like to ship a lot of

9:27new products I think it's just pretty cool that it's possible to do uh it's like yeah exploring new ways learning new things seeing what is like the limit of AI right now and it's it's mental it's mental what you can do with it right now if I were you this is what I would do tell me so I would build a product Studio around your virtual influencers so one way to bootstrap any Social account is if you if you do cross posting so I would partner with like a CAA a UTA a major talent agency or some you know company like doing things media which owns some of the most

10:10popular meme accounts like middle class fancy and stuff like that on Instagram and I would say our goal is to Launch one new character influencer per month that you're gonna help cross promote and then you partner with them and do a REV share with them I would do that because it just helps you get to where you want to get to faster because your goal is the more that this spreads the more people see your underlying technology the more Revenue you ultimately create yeah this is what this will be the easiest organic well easiest would be like the way to get like a great way of

10:49marketing for this technique for this tool the thing is like I have no clue like I know how Twitter works I have no clue how Instagram works I need to dive into it see if it's interesting to me maybe I gotta partner with someone who is like interested in this whole technology in the inside like in social media is that is that a downside of being an indie an indie hacker where you're just one person is that like is there a cap to how big an indie hacker project could get to I think it's more limitation of my personality I I get Board of the three months I used to be

11:22horrible in school I couldn't focus I didn't I didn't didn't want to do my homework it didn't stick because I can only work on things that really interest me but then I can go super Super Hyper focus on it and I just lose sense of reality for like a month or whatever and I can just ship it out and then one day it's like the interest is a Content so I cannot force myself like like you saying like it could be such a good idea so if you're like an entrepreneur who who's not like me who can like focus on the things he doesn't like to do then

11:52but I know my weakness and my weakness is that I need to work on things that really interest me you follow your curiosity put in the other way you're just following your curiosity and I think the beauty about that is you're you're able to ship a product like this in a morning like when you're following your curiosity as an entrepreneur or maker it gives you superman-like abilities it allows you to do something that is impossible it's like when uh a parent sees their baby like going into the ocean and they could swim like never before that's exactly what it's like when you when an entrepreneur is following their curiosity

12:39uh my opinion the downside of just following your curiosity is sometimes you do need some sort of lanes or constraints to scale products and that's what I worry about with when you just follow your curiosity so that's a funny thing is because if you want to dive into that topic I've realized that I'm good at starting products I really like to obsess about it but that's a limit to me where I actually need someone to run it afterwards build it out afterwards so I've hired two people actually one to do the operational parts of the company doing the content creation doing the live chat so basically the operational

13:23side of the company to keep it going and I've hired a developer two weeks ago good friend of mine in his basically I build out the products I'm exploring it I'm launching new ideas and he is hired to build out once I let's say bluntly once I get bored of it and he builds out all the more boring features continues iterating and developing on it so I can move on to the next idea and see how that works I like that I think that's going to be a big unlock for you and I think once you start seeing success and and you're seeing success with a bunch of projects

13:59which I want to get into but once you start seeing traction it makes sense like to either hire agencies hire contractors build out your little team as long as you can maintain that like you know follow your curiosity like if you can just spend all your time following your curiosity like that's probably ideal for you right well but it's a it's a deliberate uh decision right um three years ago I built headlime two years ago I had talks with Andresen Horowitz Sequoia stuff like that could you tell people what headline is so people probably heard about Jasper copyright AI they are how do they brand themselves I think they're copyright

14:37they call themselves copywriting tools so they can write blogs for you emails Facebook ads Twitter ads and stuff like that I was one of the first to build a product like that and go live with it I got a screenshot from openai uh saying I'm the first developer to actually go live with a product and this was back in

14:57December 20. 2020 yeah and it miserably blew up man like people wanted this this was when opening I just went live with gbt3 basically what GPT is built on top of and it just scaled it when like it doubled in Revenue every two three weeks hits a [ __ ] ton of Revenue in three months and then it was the decision like there were so much competition like am I gonna take startup funding build out a team higher 50 developers and basically become a CEO I had a acquisition offer so I could just get life-changing amount of money sell the company and do something else or I could try to bootstrap it and I sat

15:37down for a week two weeks talk with my friends my parents my wife wife now I just knew like it wouldn't be my life to work 80 hours manage people that's not it's not going to make me happy so I'm going to do that so I decided to sell it at the time yeah I mean the sea and CEO doesn't stand for curiosity I think that in general like CEO positions are romanticized you know you're quote unquote the boss but I actually think that like if you're a maker you're a builder um okay the boss man yeah it's not it's not fun so I love that you did that and

16:15you you were mindful right the great thing about big decisions Crossroads in business life and in life is it allows you to stop and think and ask yourself what do you want like you need to figure out why are you an entrepreneur what are you doing it for why are you building this company yeah so this model does not exist is based on a product called profile picture.ai which I'd love you to talk about it's massively successful it's got thousands of customers so Provo picture.ai is you basically upload 20 photos of yourself a specific AI of yourself gets trained on your photos it knows how you

16:55look like it can basically spit out anything that looks like you so you can make a prompt that says okay Denny as a male warrior in Game of Thrones and it will just make a picture for you that looks exactly like you in the Game of Thrones style it could be an anime style and anyone already like everyone knows lensa so lensa launched one month after I launched this product um coincidence they did really well I think they earned like 30 million dollars on the app store right now should have made an app so yeah but they did they do it pretty simple and I'm actually trying to build

17:30it out into a bigger product so we're doing LinkedIn headshots um basically trying to turn it into a photo studio right now because it actually outputs photo like quality someone shared it on Twitter when he was asking followers like where do you think I made this photo and no one guess it was AI it's it's pretty mind-blowing that it's possible to just recreate photos of you so yeah it's been pretty successful I didn't expect it I thought it would be a hype um but it's pasta hype now three months I think a lot of people ask me Greg how do you build products that Foster Community

18:07well I've got good news that's exactly what late checkout does my company we partner with the largest brands in the world and fast-paced startups to design products that resonate with your community we add a couple interesting clients every single year so if you're interested and that sounds like you email front desk at latecheckout.studio with what you're working on what you need help with and don't forget to mention the where it happens pod thank you [Music] when you're building you know any startup and you see competition especially well-funded composition like lensa is highly funded Silicon Valley funded Silicon Valley based I think you get that bad feeling in your stomach at

19:02least I do when I see a competitor come out with a similar technology or product how did you feel when you when you saw it and how do you think about differentiating your product going forward so with headlime I I freaked the [ __ ] out every time a big competitor got VC funding got exposure got angry that they stole my ideas blah blah blah basically after I sold it a few months later I just saw like the competition I was afraid of didn't go that far but also what I realized is is like if you want to stay small your bootstrap or your Indie hacker

19:38it's only good if a competitor built something like you because they have the money to create awareness like for lenza for example like I got 10 times more sales after they launched a product because suddenly people like most of the people they were suddenly searching for like AI Avatar right but some people they didn't use the word AI Avatar they used AI Provo picture so where do they end up because my my domain name is they end up my my website so now these days I think like okay yeah it's great if some big shots marketing money spend their build something like me because they do the marketing for me

20:13I'll eat the scraps I'm happy with it I don't need to do 30 million Revenue because I don't have any employees to pay for them so I've I only see it as something positive right now to be honest I also think that you again you're at a Crossroads and you can decide where you want to take the product so where do you think lenza is taking it and where do you want to take it I think what lens has eventually gonna do but I'm pretty sure Instagram or Tick Tock is going to go there it's like you will have your own editor of your own face where you can just type in what you

20:45want to see right now and it just outputs the photos for you I think that's where they might had to um so I've decided not to go that route because there's going to be a lot of competition I really like to work on new ideas and build it out but I realize there's so much potential in this like the whole Provo picture it's it's massive for some reason I shouldn't share too much about it but there's like so much volume about it that it's a good way to just Niche down and just focus on that part just get really good in it and what I realized is I like to build

21:18companies that are 100 automated so I want to bring this to a position where it's 100 automated basically only has to do live chat which my wife does and then I can move on to another product SEO traffic comes in it earns five six figures a month and I'm happy with it and then build the next products added to the portfolio in maybe in 10 years have like 100 AI products doing the same amount of Revenue it's a really good realization that you had that I think that you know the Instagrams the tick tocks are obviously looking at the success of products like yours and lenza and they're like

21:52how do we get involved here so it might get commoditized and the beauty about being an indie hacker not a bootstrapper not raising money is you don't need it to be super big for it to be life-changing which is that that's also like a decision with the Indie hacker rights like you could build it into a big company you could go to millions and millions of visitors but that would also mean like if I get millions of customers like how am I going to handle the whole support load and everything it means I have to hire a whole team so it's all deliberately trying to like

22:27of course I would love to have 30 million seals whatever tonight but that would mean I have to build a bigger team I don't want to manage the whole [ __ ] team I I've got two amazing people around me now which is my friend and my wife like I trust them they're super smart people and it goes easy because I know they're they know what to do themselves without me having to manage them so it's perfect I'm still doing the same thing I just get some help with it and that's like a deliberate choice I love that I think um what's your what's your take on it what

22:57what would you do in such a situation would you be the one that grows it out bigger is there a middle way to go in a space like this which is there's a ton of eyeballs on it I think that most likely either Instagram wins like the platforms win or lenza figures out how to become the platform or the platform integrates with lenza or your product to power it so those are the scenarios I see it's very difficult to become a platform like for you guys to become like an Instagram competitor or lends to become an Instagram competitor it is remarkably difficult because of how difficult it is to build social

23:43products you know a social product you have two sides right you have the content creation and then you have the consumption although I would argue that building AI based social networks is a lot easier than building regular social networks because if you're building Instagram in 2009 you have to figure out how can I get really interesting content creators on one side how do I get the right people on and to post the right content so that they interact with it in an AI world I mean you still have to make sure that the content is high quality people are getting engaged with it but it's easier to bootstrap the network so

24:24to speak with AI but it's still make ten thousand you can make Ten Thousand Islands who are posting fake posts on Instagram right and Boots trying to throw away that's right however I do believe that people are going to assume creating virtual celebrities virtual influencers are oh I just put a prompt in and that's it like it's actually going to be a lot harder to develop great stories great Concepts that resonate with people but yeah I don't think you know building a platform is too difficult if I were you I would focus on just how do you Niche down into something that realistically the Instagrams of the

25:05world or the lenses of the world are not going to do but to you could be literally tens of millions of dollars a year of Revenue which would be significant I don't know the answer to like what that exact product is but I would do the product design Sprint around what is something that like what is something Lindsay wouldn't do well I guess they they always want to grow bigger right so they're gonna go brought they're going to use broad terms yeah if you think about SEO so if you focus on a niche keywords I think that's a really good thing to do any any startup is

25:39gonna bloat and it's the same with any other tool like if you can just take a specific little part of any big tool that people love and you're not gonna add a [ __ ] ton of features to it because you want to grow bigger then you have a reason to exist yeah I also think what you're doing is really smart with uh you know building your own virtual influencers with this model does not exist that's an example of like Instagram isn't gonna create virtual influencers like that's two quote unquote small for them creepy and creepy and they can't do it yeah and and lensa too is probably

26:17not thinking about that but I think that is it crazy that a virtual influencer brings in 500 000 to a million dollars a year of AD and affiliate Revenue it's not crazy and then could you put together 10 15 20 30 of those it's not crazy and then could you generate 5 10 15 20 million dollars of people learning about profile picture.ai because they see your technology they want to do for himself not crazy maybe I should put some more love in into this model that doesn't exist well I mean that's why that's why I dm'd you on Twitter I was like this this is a

26:54guy who understands where the world of AI is going and is building products to speak to it that are very bespoke and interesting I'm curious how his brain works what other products through your product Studio have you have you built so I build a typical build a stock photo website that's fully ran on on AI I don't know if you saw it stockai.com actually just shut it down basically the whole team around all these products I'm trying to build right now is you're trying to replace something where you need a lot of people for and you just automate it with some robots I just love building

27:32robots that work for me at night doing things that wasn't able to do before so it's okay the thing was hey all these stock photo websites they need photographers to make content for them right so I was like what happens if you just build a robot it's raining a model that's really good in stock photo style photos and just have it run 24 7 and spit out new photos so generated like hundreds of thousands of photos the problem is for now is like the quality is too low to be able to use as stock photography like it's a novelty it works for the Provo pictures worked for the 40 phases

28:07because it doesn't have to be perfect but with stock photography if there's one thing off no one wants to use it on the website so what I did is I trained the whole model on it tried to do it but it didn't get any engagement it got a lot of social press a lot of visitors and everything though the conversion rate to a paid product was like 0.004 and it's not cheap to run AI models man so if you want to keep this up I had to kill it but I think someone is probably Shutterstock is going to do this really well because they have like the whole

28:36database of photos right they could they could literally I think it two years put all their photographers out of a job and just having AI generate the photos for them just diving into the reason why this failed is it because you didn't have a big enough data set versus I stock photo who has like a massive I think the quality is not there yet that's the whole issue so you can generate all these folders right now and have a database but if the quality of the models in the AI is not good enough yet it's like such a waste of time money and resources because no one like people

29:14were barely downloading them either so I think it's too early yet and the thing is like you have unsplash which has millions and millions and millions of free photos which are really good high quality that's what you're competing with with a stock photo website so if your quality is not on par then why would people use your tool in that sense so even if I stock photo were to launch something today what you're saying is it probably wouldn't be able to compete especially for realistic ones I think like mid-journey is getting really close to being really good in artistic quality like paintings that is it could replace that but for

29:56realistic photos for real photography it's not there yet so if profile picture.ai for example I need to make sure that the hands are hidden under the table in the pockets of the jacket because it sucks in making hands all these like little limitations that it's like you could use it for a profile picture because it's fine like you can crop it out but the AI is not there yet to replace the eye stock photo get the images or whatever so this is one of those ideas that you did stock AI that it's basically a timing thing so is this something that you you would potentially revisit in 6

30:3112 18 months yes with two caveats I want to see who wins Getty versus stability AI because Getty is in a lawsuit now with the creators of this open source model I don't want to get suits as a one person basically I was going through my head too I was like if Getty drops a lawsuit on my doorstep which they would do if I grow hard enough how I'm gonna fight it so I have to kill a product so we'll be a waste of six months working for it why does Getty feel like they could run a lawsuit here like what what grounds do they have so this whole

31:09stable diffusion AI is trained on a 5 billion image data set called lion I believe I don't know if you know the name and I think they found a few of their photos in the data set so they were like all right you trained on our copyrighted photos time to sue because they're probably [ __ ] scared that they're gonna lose their money right plus it's trained on their copyrighted images so I guess yeah they have a point if that's true you can approve it because the black box of AI and Getty is is a really big business they're about a two and a half billion dollar business I

31:51believe they're publicly traded and I noticed that I stock photo also has been teasing out some of their AI that they're doing my stock photo is owned by Getty right oh is it okay I think it is so basically it sounds like the stock photography besides from unsplash space is basically monopolized by Getty with Shutterstock having probably a little dip in the toe but for the rest here you know would you ever consider you know reaching out to Getty or Shutterstock and being like hey I built this and maybe there's a way we can partner they're going to do it themselves they could probably acquire a company that's

32:27going to do it but it's not like we said it's the focus it's not my interest I think my interest is right now in this whole official one training on the faces seeing getting to see where you can take these fake Instagram models and whatever in the stock photo it doesn't it doesn't interest me that much it does it also like I build in public it doesn't get that much engagement on Twitter either it doesn't get shared that much because it's pretty boring like who the [ __ ] likes stock photography right it's more interesting to do like some interesting businesses could you talk more about tattoos.ai

33:00it was the first one I made actually it's actually getting some sales so what I did is I made a little editor we can basically type in okay what kind of tattoo do you want let's say a bunny with a black hat um my AI at some prompt magic around it you can select the tattoo artist's style and it comes up with a flash sheet of tattoos um there was actually a guy who tattooed one of my tattoos that were generated on his leg which was pretty dope to be honest and how does the pricing model work um it's nine dollars you get access for 14 days I think I get one or two sales a

33:39day it's starting to rank on Google which is quite fun because every tattoo that gets generated I take the prompt turn it into like a search engine and then it generates automatically the pages for it so you could have like a bunny tattoo shark tattoos wave tattoos so yeah Google will pick it up if people search for it I think that's quite interesting with with a Yankee like you can churn out so much content ranking Google with it and in that way it gets search volume to your websites it's interesting that you you talk about SEO because at least the people I follow on Twitter who are in the AI space they're

34:16constantly tweeting about how you know SEO is that SEO is dead and I couldn't disagree with them more uh could you talk more about the role of AI and SEO so if you know Chet's GPT right probably everyone in this podcast knows it by now right yes you know you're not gonna go to chat gbt and be like hey um I want to make Provo pictures and then it cannot like there is search intents search and there is information search information search is going to be completely disrupted by or chat GPT like why would you go to Google and ask for a recipe you you cannot say hi that it

34:57will come back with some content but if you're looking for a solution for like making a profile picture getting a tattoo whatever like you you're still going to go to Google to find a website that can do that for you and there's no way that AI can solve something like that does the current wave of AI tools make it easier harder to rank in in Google um I don't write my copy that much with those tools because I'm afraid Google penalizes it I just think it's easier to make content in that sense because for example I have a website lendingfolio.com it's uh I sell templates for websites there like I had

35:39to hire a developer a designer wait for six months for them to make content and only then you can start ranking on Google because you made the product but with reik you can literally on the Fly producer content a user goes to your website generate something for themselves and you use it to publish on your website so your content gets created for you automatically so I think it's super easy to grow on social media in that sense like for example the tattoo like the content Rings Google likes content where people stay so if they don't if they don't bounce after like one second and say okay yeah this

36:11is garbage quality I don't want to be here like you're going to get penalized but apparently it's good quality so Google sees that you stay on the website for one minute you don't go back to the search so you're gonna stay there yeah I think like you know the secrets to SEO is exactly what you said is getting people to stay on page which is going to make something they want and then keep them on the page you just have to be you yeah there's no [ __ ] heck with it like it's I think it's such a [ __ ] sorry for the words but you just need to make things for

36:41people that they want use the keyword what they're looking for which he put on the banner of a supermarket like you so you're searching for Supermarket you see a supermarket sign right and people come to your product and have other reputable websites point to your website that says okay you know I'm the New York Times and like I'm linking to it so I think that having press having Social Links is really really impactful as well so and then a little if I if I may a little side note with that I think that's that's one of the reasons why I build in public because it generates

37:19press for your new products which means you're going to have instant backlinks like arms of backlinks on the day you launch and Google's just gonna rocket it to the top of the search engine instead of that you have to wait for like six months before they pick it up like people say I do it to sell your product I know it's literally I just want backlinks I like to share what I'm building I like to interact with the community with people I mean it's like this is how I meet you right which I think is really cool about Twitter but it's it's really backlinks that's the magic use for it

37:48what's really cool about SEO in general is you know it's a very boring way to get passive income right like you invest in SEO you don't invest in Facebook ads you invest in SEO because in 12 months 18 months 24 months you're you're seeing the dividends of all that build in public stuff that you've done all that content you're generating so I'm excited about how AI is going to help Builders uh especially Indie Builders create more content than they they've ever been able to create I think if you're making blog posts now during to the number top of Google like content marketing you're you're you're done you're [ __ ] but if you make tools

38:30and products and something like this and that's how you rank on Google I think you have future success so tattoos AI you know there's already someone with a literal tattoo your models have created you know do you envision a world where you walk into a tattoo shop and you prompt a robot and the robot just like we were talking about in the coffee shop it's like a robot arm instead of serving it serving you an espresso or a cappuccino or a latte it's just starting to draw on you in permanent ink like our tattoo our tattoo artist gonna be out of work I I genuinely I've had a lot of

39:14discussions with this like you're not going to get a machine to touch you that's I will be so scared man like there's gonna be two types of tattoo artists like some of them obviously are gonna be scared because there's certainly an AI that can do the design then on the other side I think there's going to be a lot of artists who are going to use this inspiration source that kind of generates like there's going to be a customer they can just suddenly generate like 100 options instead of just one or two show it to the customer and then they fine tune it based on what the customer really wants

39:47so I think it's going to be like an inspiration tool a way for them to communicate faster with the customers and then get to the tattoo they want why do you say that you can't imagine a machine tattooing you because like to me I can't imagine a self-driving car because the logic I make is airplanes are basically self-driving like the pilots are there just to supervise basically there's probably more room for human error than there is machine error especially as as we you know in two three four five years so why do you say that uh you can't imagine the majority of tattoos being machine-led might be because I'm scared of needles

40:30so I'd be like even more scared if a rogue right robot is going to tattoo me and I'm gonna move my arm and it doesn't register that I'm moving my arm so it's gonna start to step me or something such a wrong thing to think about because there's probably a way less error prone for a robot to do those things but I want the man you you would you let a robot tattoo you I wouldn't let anyone tattoo me because I don't want tattoos but if I if I was getting a tattoo you know if you're uh Richard Branson and you're like hey come with me to the Moon

41:03I wouldn't come with you to the Moon I don't want to be the first person or one of the first people to do any of that stuff I'm one of those people that kind of like Let Me Wait and See to see like how the first 20 000 tattoos of have turned out and like do my due diligence and then from there make a decision I do think though that the hour of progress is towards machine driven tattoos like I think that's where it's gonna go what you're probably gonna see is it's gonna be crazy at first someone's gonna do it I can like picture the press release

41:39right now or the New York Times article whatever then it's going to be less crazy because more people are gonna do it and you're gonna have human supervising the machine and then eventually there won't be humans supervising the machine most tattoos will be done by robots and a small percentage of them will be done by humans really curious kiddo because it's it's like it's an artistic process and that sense that the artist matters like my wife has a lot of tattoos and she searches for the artist with the style the way of doing it so think the tattoo artist it's not just hey I want a

42:15picture on me I find a tattoo artist to do it for me it but it might also be because that's how it works right now and in the future like how about this like uh right now I'm I have this like Cottage that I'm in in a mountain town in in Quebec in Canada and there's you know probably about 10 000 people who live in this town and let's say I go on the internet one day and I find this incredible artist in Amsterdam and for whatever reason I can't get to Amsterdam I'm just in my town wouldn't it be amazing for me to be able to walk

42:50into my like Main Street in my in my little town walk into this like robot store and basically just like how you can reuse prompts just go in and be like hey I love this artist what would this artist do in their edition of Designing my dog or my dead dog or you know passed away relative or something like that on my on my shoulder but wouldn't that be the same as going to a shady Shady store by some fake Pokemon cards and play with your friends with your fake Pokemon cards like yeah it looks the same it is the same but it's not the same in that sense like

43:29okay yeah you got the same style as the artist but the artist didn't do it does it still give you the same fulfillment you could go to a local art tattoo artist and be like hey I want this exact tattoo from that artist like yeah but it might be might be difficult to do I mean I I can't answer the question like as someone who doesn't do tattoos like or doesn't like quite hard for both of us it's hard for both of us but I I do think that if it's done right and if it's blessed by the artist I could see a world where someone is excited to get that tattoo

44:03that's an interesting future man it's an interesting future your studio is called post crafts people can check it out at postgraphs.com what's one thing you want to leave our listeners with let's say you just want to start out build a new product you don't know where to start I'd say go to hrefs.com keep on typing in keywords of things that you might be interested in until you find a collection of keywords that has a keyword difficulty under 10 which means you should be able to go to the first page of Google build a product around that that could be optimized where you could make some content with that can rank on the

44:45website build it with no code without with code or whatever and you should be able to start a site business for yourself that's the thing I think a lot of people they know how to build things they just don't know how to launch it how to Market it or whatever and I think SEO is the easiest way to start with it if you find like some Niche to operate inside of I think that that will be my tip I think everyone should launch something yes just putting it out there like man just like build something to scratch your own Niche like my first tools I build a headline for myself because I

45:17sucked in making headlines so I build it for myself and like if you're lucky someone else needs it so if you're lucky really lucky thousands of others need it and if not you build something for yourself that makes your life easier yeah absolutely I love that people can go follow Danny on Twitter uh he's a must follow uh especially if you're interested in the world of AI and your account is what at Danny p-o-s-t-m-a-a yes Danny postma with and I build in public all my startups tweet about AI mostly these days tweet about what I'm building testing and everything so give me a follow come back anytime

46:01Danny thank you so much it was a great chat [Music] thank you