5 Steps to Get an Internship at the Big 4 Accounting Firms (KPMG, PWC, Ernst and Young, Deloitte)

0:00With all these videos I've done about the Big Four accounting firms, the accounting degree, being an accountant, and more, there's been one big question that's always popped up, and that is, how do you get an internship at the Big Four? I think the main reason why is for a lot of people watching this video, you're probably in college. And I got to say, this is one of those videos, I'm going to stress this right in the beginning, I wish I saw when I was in college. I'm going to give you all the exact tips, strategies, the timeline, basically all the things I wish I knew before going down this internship

0:30process, because there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. And being honest, if you do it in the right way, if you get that internship, I think it's something about 90% of the accountants who get that Big Four internship end up getting the full-time offer. Meaning, your senior year of college, when everyone else is scrambling to try to find a job, figuring out what they have to do or going to do after they graduate, you are already going to have that job lined up. And very rarely do I ever say this in any of my videos, I highly suggest watching this entire

1:02video, as each one of these steps I'm going to tell you lead up to getting that internship. Number one, getting good grades. Now, these first two steps I'm going to talk about are more preparation, and these are very important, because in terms of the timeline, in case you didn't know, typically typically, you're going to be kind of doing the interviewing process and going through this internship process the first semester of your junior year. Then you do the internship typically before your senior year, so

1:29that's summer before your senior year. At the end of that summer, you will most likely than not get the full-time offer, and then you typically start the next year after you graduate. That's the way it works. That being said, in terms of the timeline leading up to getting that internship, or before even getting the internship, you need to get the interview. This should be your kind of first goal, and I'll give you a bunch of pro tips, don't get me wrong, but a big thing I'm going to say right away is this. I remember learning as kind of like a cool behind-the-scenes secret. When it comes to applying to get

2:00that internship, in terms of applying to for the interview to get that internship, there is something that I can't remember what it is, what the cutoff is, or if your GPA is lower than a certain amount, they don't even consider you for the interview. Now, couple things I want to say. One, there are things like networking, attending events, which I'll talk about

2:19a bit later, that are very important. Your GPA is one small piece of the puzzle. That being said, it is something I hate to say, you got to be aware of. I can't remember what the cutoff was, and you're probably wondering, I think it may have been maybe like a 3.0, 3.1, 3.2. So, it's not like it's something that's absurdly high, but it's

2:38also not super super low, either, right? So, this this is something to be aware of that I feel like when it comes to the accounting world, it is pretty competitive, right? So, leading up till say starting that process of meeting the recruiters, networking, um getting their contact information, of course, starting to like learn more about the internship process, you want to make sure you're getting as the as you want to make sure you're

3:01getting the best grades as possible. That's the only way to word it, right? Now, also for me, not to call myself out, I didn't have the craziest GPA. I can't remember what it was when I was applying for the internship and doing the interviewing process, I think it was I think a 3.6. So, it so it wasn't bad, maybe 3.5. I think it actually was a 3.55, now that I think about it. I think it was in between, right? So, it wasn't bad, don't get me wrong, but also wasn't like 3.8, 3.9. And a lot of people that I was interviewing with for the Big Four had a

3:30GPA similar to that. Regardless, I know you may be wondering like, oh shoot, like are my grades high enough in terms of basically my GPA? Is my GPA high enough? The biggest thing is this, make sure it can be as high as possible leading up to that. Now, like say if you're watching this video being like, shoot, Mark, I'm not going to lie, I really want this internship, but I have a 2.8. Do you think I have a shot? We'll talk about that in a bit later, trust me, because like I said, the GPA is only one piece of the puzzle. That being said, it is an

3:58important piece, nonetheless. Number two, resume and appearance. This is now another big one. I highly suggest leading up to that point to make sure your resume is fire. There's no other way to word that. I do have a link listed below in the description to a whole resume tutorial I made. The biggest thing I'm going to say when it comes to your resume, and I'm hoping by this point, if you're like say a a sophomore or junior in college, you've probably already done some resume classes, try to get your resume looked at as much as possible. Maybe book a

4:28meeting with your guidance counselor. Another pro tip, ask your accounting teachers. Like say they have office hours, go there and say, hey, you know what, I know this is random, it's not really about what we're learning, I mean, kind of related, can you look at my resume? Can you just tell me what you like, what you don't like? I'm just really trying to make it as good as possible. Your resume doesn't have to be perfectly pristine, but if it's close to that, that's optimal, right? You want to make sure it's as best as possible. Now, there are a couple of pro tips I'll give you. One,

4:54of course, make sure you have everything like your GPA, your expected 150-hour completion date, because they want to see that you're CPA eligible. That's a big thing you want to make sure you mention on your resume. Of course, have your work experience, make sure you have all those resume action words being used with great descriptions of what you did, any kind of skills, interests, and activities, especially. This is a big one I say a lot, because I think for a lot of people, like say you play piano, like say you play basketball, like say

5:22you're a bodybuilder, for example. They're like, I'm not going to put that on my resume, I'm applying to be an accountant, right? But here's the thing, in the interviews, we're now kind of foreshadowing a little bit, in the interviews, they're not going to ask you what a debit is, what a credit is. They're not going to be asking you accounting technical questions. They know you're qualified. The truth is, if you get that interview, you are already qualified. So, the big thing they want to see is, can they put a face to the name? Can this person have a conversation, right? Of course, having good social skills. Is this somebody

5:52that can represent the firm in the right way? This is a big thing a lot of recruiters think about, because it's just as scary, and I know it sounds weird, but as somebody who used to actually be a recruiter, it is just as scary trying to hire people as it is trying to get a job. Because like say, as a recruiter, I

6:07have five spots to fill, just five. Well, if I give five offers, and one of them doesn't take it, now I only filled four. And that that's not good. But if I like say offer seven people the job, and all seven of them take it, well, now I'm in a whole other ballgame, cuz I'm like, shoot, too many people accepted, right? It's

6:26it's pretty stressful being a recruiter. And one thing a lot of recruiters do as a technique is be like, okay, if I like say sit down with this person, this is a big interviewing thing as well, I know they're qualified, they're already qualified. So, let's talk about something. And if you put on your resume something that makes you stand out, make sure of course it's not something that's

6:43kind of crass. I do have to say that. But you know, if you're like, hey, I'm just big on playing intramural basketball, or I'm big on working out, I'm big on I'm a musician, right? All these little things can really help your resume, and I think one of the biggest negatives I see from a lot of people when it comes to their resume is not putting their skills, interests, and activities. Not just that you're part of the accounting association or the accounting club, or you do chess club, you do this, but putting the things that you are interested in, because one, makes you stand out, and two, it's more

7:13likely than not something that will come up in the interview, right? Because for example, for me, I've mentioned this before in a bunch of videos, the biggest thing I talked about in almost all my interviews was the fact that I did parkour. The fact that I did parkour, I was one of the captains of the UMass parkour team, I was featured in music videos, I collaborated with Red Bull for a world-famous parkour event, you know, all these different things, and those are really good conversations to have, because one, this is kind of when parkour was becoming a little popular, right? So, it was kind of I think a lot

7:40of recruiters like, wait, I've seen this on YouTube, but like I can't remember what it is, right? So, this is a good way to kind of make yourself stand out. So, one, make sure your resume is fire, because the second you start meeting recruiters, your resume is going to get brought up a lot. So, the better it looks from the get-go, the better off

7:56you're going to be. The second one is appearance on this kind of second step preparation, and that is this. What you're going to start noticing at your school is when you go into like the lobby of like say the business building or whatever, there will almost inevitably start to be mini kiosks or things set up where recruiters are standing there. You'll start to see

8:18PwC, Ernst & Young, KPMG, Deloitte, etc. other companies, right? You will start to see a lot of kiosks with them set up. And one big thing I do suggest, even if you don't talk to them, is at least be aware like, okay, I don't know if I'm going to have a conversation, maybe more likely than not, but at least I want to look at least semi-presentable, right? I remember like my sophomore year of college, I think like most people in college, you know, I would roll out of bed, wouldn't do my hair, I'd put on pajamas, and maybe like a tank like I'd look very college-y. That's the only way

8:51I can word it. But then, once that kind of recruiting period started approaching, I was like, you know what, I think maybe what I should do, even if it's like takes two seconds, maybe put on even if it's just sweatpants, at least look presentable. At least look that if if they saw this person, I at least look semi-presentable and someone who could potentially represent the firm. It's not like I woke up and wore, you know, even wicked nice uh business pants. It's not like I woke up and wore jeans even every day with a nice shirt. I just wanted to look presentable. I didn't want to look like

9:21a mess, I didn't want to, you know, look like my hair is all frazzled, like I just woke up, even if I actually did, right? I wanted to look presentable. So, but this point, right? Your grades are looking great, your GPA is awesome, which I got to say does have a little bit of a factor, but we'll we'll talk about that in a little bit. Secondly, your resume is looking great, and your appearance is great. Basically, you have all the tools in your toolkit to make yourself look as best as possible. Now, let's get in to the interviewing and internship timeline. Number three, connecting. Now, this is a very very

9:52important first step, right? This is kind of the first two step, in my opinion, when it comes to getting that internship. So, like I said, you have everything kind of all set up in terms of your GPA, your resume, you're looking good. Now, at this point, this is where the first steps really start to begin, and that is this. You're walking to class, it's maybe early morning, or maybe you're leaving class, and you see those kiosks like I mentioned. This is where you would now want to start approaching and talking to the recruiters as much as possible, because the truth is, I'm going to give you

10:23probably the best pro tip I can give on this entire video, and that is this. If there's anything you remember, remember this. The people that I noticed who did not get the internship versus those who did, there was one glaring factor. It wasn't GPA, it wasn't how smart they were, it wasn't this, it wasn't that. It was how much they network, how much they talk to the recruiters, how much they put themselves out there, right? So, I made sure every single time when I would leave class, when I would be going to class, if I saw those kiosks, I would walk up, even if I already knew the recruiter, I'd say,

10:54"Hey, how's your day going so far? I have class, just wanted to say hi, just wanted to see how everything's going, right?" You want to make sure you're constantly building the connections. And the initial first step, your initial first breadcrumb, is to meet one of the recruiters, say hi. I'm Mark, nice to meet you. Uh, you're a recruiter for Deloitte, or for KPMG, or for PWC, or for Ernst & Young, or maybe the other firms like BDO or Grant Thornton, etc., etc. Start meeting these recruiters, have a conversation with them. Just be like, you know, and granted, I know it may be awkward at first, like I feel like it's going to

11:21sound kind of funny, but I feel like this is actually a really good analogy. I almost look at the recruiting phase of like meeting the recruiters and all this kind of stuff kind of similar to dating, to be honest. I look at it very similar to that, like walking up and saying hi to them and being like, oh shoot, like what do I say, right? Like that kind of thing. I

11:39look at that very, very similar, right? In the sense that you're going to walk up, you're going to say hi to them, and be like, "Hey, I'm Mark, nice to meet you, you know, I just saw the Deloitte booth from across the room." I don't know something like that. Um, how's your day going so far, you know? Um, can you tell me more

11:52information? Start talking to them. That's your initial first step. You want to make sure that they at least can already put a face to the name. If you can do that, then you're already a huge bigger like up than most people. After having that first conversation, the next you want to do is send up a follow-up email. You always want to send follow-ups. So, what I would do is like say meet the recruiter, I get their business card. Have the email right there, I'm like, boom, I will email you later today. Another thing you can do as a pro tip is two techniques that I personally use. One is say, "Hey, you

12:22know what? I'd love to get your opinion. I'm always trying to improve my resume. Is it okay if I email you my resume just to get some constructive criticism?" This is good because one, you're getting actual good constructive criticism from a recruiter who knows better than anybody, but two, it kind of gives you another excuse to email them, right? You're saying, "Hey, I want to email you my resume." So, it kind of creates like a call to action, so to speak. The second thing is if there's anything you can talk about that makes you stand out a little bit, that will help. So, for example, in my follow-up email to the

12:51recruiter I met at Deloitte, for example, one, I sent them my resume, like I said, and two, in the conversation that me and her first initially had, we talked about parkour, and I said, "Hey, you know what? How about this? I will email you some videos on YouTube about parkour so you can see, you know, what parkour is like and actually watch it, right?" And I remember she told me that was one of the best follow-up emails she's ever gotten cuz it's interesting, right? It makes you stand out almost immediately. It's a professional email, I'm not being crass or rude or saying anything kind of weird, but I'm sending my resume, and

13:18I'm also mentioning something in a very professional way that makes me stand out, right? So, not saying you have to talk about parkour or your interests or what you do, but let's say it comes up, and you're like, "Oh, yeah, you know what? It's been great, you know, it's been a good semester so far. I've actually been doing pretty well, I'm part of the chess club." Maybe you mention that in the email, or something like that, right? You want to make sure that at this point now, the first initial step is you're connecting with all these different recruiters and doing all these follow-up emails. The follow-up emails, I think, are of

13:45anything just as important, maybe even more important, because now you're having multiple conversations. This is the big thing you really want to start doing. Near the end, I'd say, of the the in-turning process or the interviewing process to get the internship, my first semester of my junior year, I knew almost every recruiter. They all knew me by name. I was saying hi to them on a first-name basis. In addition, typically when you have people hang out by that kiosk, it is not only just the recruiters

14:11themselves, but also some employees. There might be some first-years at the firm, maybe some second-years, maybe some senior managers. You want to meet all of them as well. Make sure you get all their business cards and send up follow-up emails, cuz the truth is, and this is another thing I learned again, looking back in hindsight from the recruiters and everything, they do ask people, and it makes sense. It's not

14:30anything weird. They do ask other people, "Hey, so what did you think about Mark? What did you think about Kyle? What about Amanda? Like what do you think, right?" They do actually get opinions from other people. So, let's say if you have a great conversation with the recruiter, but you're super rude to one other person,

14:45that might impact you negatively, right? And I know this is probably common knowledge to most people, but I do want to mention it. You want to meet as many people as you can, get as many emails as you can, and send up as many follow-up emails as you can. Another huge pro tip I will say is what I used to do is like say if I got a bunch of uh, business cards, right? Which you probably will, you're definitely going to. Maybe bring like a pen or pencil, and maybe just write like a note on each one, be like, "Okay, this was uh, this was, I don't know, Julie. She

15:15mentioned that she actually I don't know, making stuff up, was originally from Austin, Texas, and she liked the barbecue spot Franklin." Which, by the way, Franklin barbecue, mind-blowing, right? So, that's something to mention, right? And again, it's not like you're going about it saying, "Hey, Franklin sounds cool," or whatever, but you're trying to be as professional while also trying to be as personable as possible. And that's a big thing I mentioned in so many videos is having the duality, the yin and yang, if I'd say that, of being very professional while also being personable. And remember, you're not interviewing and talking with robots, you're dealing with

15:48humans. So, there is a personality structure to that, right? But at the end of the day, this is what you want to be doing. And a huge pro tip I will say on top of that, this is something that I'm really glad I did looking in hindsight years ago, cuz I did this, of course, so long ago, but is my first semester of my junior year, if you're able to do it, cuz I know you're trying to get 150 credits and everything. If you're able to do it, the first semester of my junior year, I actually only had four classes. I did not have a fifth. The main reason why is

16:13this process of meeting them, follow-up emails, building the resume even better than it is, interviewing, going to all these events, all these things that are happening, it is almost like having a fifth class. I'm going to be honest, it's it's it was just as much work. I mean, it it and it's a lot. Remember, this is your goal, you right? Your goal is to get that internship cuz that leads to that

16:32full-time offer and blah, blah, blah. So, I mean, if you can, I think one huge pro tip, and I'm really glad I did this looking back in hindsight, I'm so glad I did this looking back in hindsight, is to only have four classes. I'll be honest, that is a huge pro tip. Or maybe have four, maybe do like, "Okay, I'm going to do four like, I don't know, financial accounting, maybe managerial, two other ones, and maybe your fifth class is kind of like an easy one," or something that's a bit more low-key or like a gen ed, just because this is a lot of work. And remember, the

16:59more work you put into this, the more effort you make, the more likely you are to get to the interview, which brings you to the internship. On that note, number four, attending events and maintaining connections. This is the most important one, by far, out of anything on this video. I briefly touched upon it on the last point, cuz the the last point was more of the initial steps of getting those connections, follow-up emails, and more. However, to go more into the weeds like I said about the people who got the internship versus those who didn't is I noticed that not only were the people who didn't

17:30get an internship were people who just didn't really try to get to know the recruiters or anything, or get the interview at all, excuse me, but I also noticed that the people who did didn't even get any interviews or didn't get the internship, even if they did get that initial first connection and send that initial first that initial first follow-up email, there was nothing after that, right? And here's the thing, you do have to put in the work. Any single time there's an event going on with the Big Four, there's going to be meet and greets, there's going to be maybe, um, you know, foodie type stuff,

18:02or like, "Hey, we're going to meet at this restaurant," and there's like kind of like finger food, if I call it that, or appetizers, where we're all just going to hang out and talk. Regardless of the situation is, your answer should be yes. You have to do whatever you can to go to these events, cuz think about it, it's like anything in life. If a recruiter meets you once, and you send a

18:18follow-up email, okay. But if a recruiter meets you once, and they get that follow-up email, but then in addition, you go to five different events, at each event, they can see you being professional and personable and nice and respectful and somebody who's going to represent the firm in a positive light, which one are they going to pick for the actual interview? And even past the interview, even if you get the interview, which I will say in some cases sometimes is a formality, which I'll talk about in a second, than getting the internship, right? This is super important. You want to attend as many events as possible,

18:52and I'm going to say it, you want to be on your A game. You really want to be on your A game for as many events as possible. Go to every single one that they have. Sometimes, and this has happened to me, you can even sometimes meet the person that you're interviewing with the next day, cuz some of the interviews will be sometimes with some of the recruiters that you've already been talking to. Sometimes it's someone from the firm that kind of comes out and interviews you. So, you never know exactly who's the interviewing person, but remember, everything that you're doing in terms of meeting people,

19:19attending the events, doing all this kind of stuff, that does lead you up to getting that actual internship offer, right? So, let's say you're like, "All right, I've been going to five or six different events, and now I have this interview, but I don't even know the person. Hopefully the interview goes well." Keep in mind, if you've kind of built up your, I hate to use the word, but street cred, so to speak. I hate to use that word or phrase, but let's say you've built it up to the point where they're like, "Okay, you know what? This guy is super professional. He's on point. He's very personable. He's the

19:46kind of guy we want, or kind of girl that we want at this firm." And let's say your your interview goes okay. Well, they can say, you know what? We're still going to give them like say the second interview, which is what happens after the first interview, right? You get the second interview, which means you go to the the office, you got to do a tour, you get a second interview, and then hopefully the internship offer, right? So, a big thing I got to say is if you've not been going to these events, if you've not been attending them, and you had one kind of interview, and that's all they have to

20:13go off of, they're probably not going to pick you for the second interview, right? So, these are all the different things you have to keep in mind, and all comes down to one thing, go to as many events as possible. Like I said, this is the most important thing. And talking about the GPA, let's bring that up from way back

20:28when in the beginning of this video. And let's say your GPA isn't the best. Like I remember one story, this is still one of my favorite stories, I've mentioned it in a couple of videos. There's one person who had on the resume GPA and then GPA after freshman year. And I remember the recruiter told me the story that she's like, "Hey, I've never really seen this on a resume. Like, what is this?" And he goes, "Well, I'm not going to lie, my GPA right now is very low because my freshman year I partied." I think he got like a 1.4 or something like something that low his freshman

20:54year. He's like, "You know, so as a result of me just not taking my college experience seriously, I got I have a very low GPA. However, after my freshman year, I got my act together, I started working really hard, now my GPA is really really good after my freshman year, but because of how bad my GPA was during my freshman year, it still unfortunately affects how it looks right now." And I remember the recruiter

21:17told me that that was such a green flag. I mean, think about it, that shows a lot of changing your act, getting your sugar honey iced tea together, catch my drift, right? Like, getting your stuff together, and he actually ended up getting the internship and then the full-time offer. Even though his initial GPA or his after GPA on paper I think was lower than the cutoff. So, keep in mind, this is why attending all these events is important because let's say you're like, "Hey Mark, I'm not going to lie, my GPA is like a 2.9, maybe the cutoff is 3.0, I don't know what it is

21:43to be honest." But if you're attending all these events, if they're seeing you being professional, being personable, then they might say, "You know what? Okay, yeah, maybe his or her GPA isn't exactly above that cutoff or matching that cutoff, but we've seen him at five or six events, this is the person we want. This is the kind of person that we really need at the firm." They will probably give you still that that interview, that initial interview, and then going forward from there. The biggest thing, I know I'm driving this point home, but the biggest thing, the most important point on this video is to attend as many

22:13events as possible, make sure these recruiters can see you as much as possible, be sending those follow-up emails, and to be doing all this to initially get you then now to the interview. And number five, the interview. Now, I'm going to be honest right in the beginning, I videos this below in the description about all these interview tips. This is one of those subjects, as you can imagine, that could

22:34be an entire video series in of itself. So, I'm merely going to scratch the surface here. Like I said, I do suggest suggest watching those videos, but the biggest thing is this, this is how it typically works. After doing all this stuff, right? You have a good GPA, your resume is fire, your appearance is very on point, of course. You've already built the initial connections and sent those follow-up emails, and not only that, but you've maintained them, you've continued them by continuing and still going to all these different events, seeing them. Now, at this point, you then apply online like you do typically, right? Then you're

23:06going to get the interview. Now, like I said, sometimes the interview can be with the recruiters that you've already been talking to, sometimes it'll be someone random. And there's been some times, which is kind of funny, the interviews I've have or I have had with recruiters sometimes are more of a follow-up. Like, I get there and they're like, "Hey, uh how's it been going, Mark?" And I'm like, "Oh, it's going good." Like, it's almost more of a conversation with a friend than a typical like, "Hi, I'm Mark, like nice to meet you." But the biggest thing I'm going to say is this when it comes to interviewing. Couple of

23:31things I will say is one, make sure you do research beforehand. So, regardless of how much you know about the firm or think you know, still do research. I always like to bring like a notepad with me and have a bunch of notes about like, "Okay, like this firm got ranked the best firm when it comes to environmental impact or something like that. This firm got ranked a great place to work because of X, Y, and Z, right? So, I always kind of do research about the firm, of their accolades, is there anything that's really interesting about them? I might even just go on their site

23:59or Google it or go on news. I might just look up as many things as possible and take notes about it. That way come prepared. You do want to be prepared for the interviews. Like I said, they're not going to be asking you questions about accounting, but you want to show that you came there prepared with already uh kind of pre-written notes, right? In addition, I also suggest preparing a or preparing a bunch of questions, sometimes based off the research. So, for example, um I remember, I think this was true, I think it was in well, when I was in college, this is like 2011 is

24:30when I was doing this whole kind of interviewing process for the internship. I think PwC got ranked, I think it was like one of the top 100 places to work for 2011 or something like that. I may be making this up, but it was something along those lines, right? I think it was PwC. And one of my interview questions is, "Hey, you know, I was doing research about PwC, you know, I was very invested

24:45about it, I was I was very interested. I'm curious, I saw on your site going through some of the details that you got ranked the top 100 places or one of the top 100 places to work for in this year. I got to ask you, in your personal opinion, why do you think that is? What about working at PwC for you has made it stand out?" Now, that's a great question. Of course, I got to be honest with you, there are some cliché questions, I want to say this now that's on my head. If you say, "Hey, why PwC compared to every other firm?" I almost would say not to ask

25:12that, I have to be honest, and the reason why is that is the most like cliché, I feel like, question that I've seen a lot of people ask. Not saying it's bad, but I do want to say this as a side note, if you're preparing questions, I feel like try to ask that maybe in a different way. Be like, "Hey, you know what? It seems like you really like working here. I just got to know on a personal level, like, what about this company really stands out to you that made you pick it?" You know, so like, I guess you

25:34could maybe word it in a different way. But what I suggest doing is have almost two sections on this notepad that you have. I had like a notepad, like I said, those notes about different the different firms. One being the actual research I did about that firm cuz it is intriguing. Like, there are some firms that had some unique accolade and I'm like, "Oh, I'm actually kind of curious, like, why is this?" And then the second part was the questions that I had, usually based upon that research. It's kind of like a two-way punch. You're showing you did research by saying, "Hey, I saw this on

26:00your site. I read this news article about you in this one particular spot." And then you base that question off that cuz almost always at the end of the interview, the recruiter will be talking to you, asking you questions, and then they'll almost always say, "So, do you have any questions for me?" It's I think, not saying it's like a red flag per se, but the last thing you want

26:21to do is sit there and be like, "No." Makes you ask questions, right? And of course, during the interview, your biggest thing is to be personable. Like I said, they're not going to quiz you, they're not going to test you. If anything, if you did this properly, like I talked about earlier with the resume, they're probably just going to ask you about your interests, your skills, how

26:37things going. It's going to be more of a conversation. You want to be as personable as possible, and I know I keep driving this point home, while also being professional. Now, at that point, after the interview, you were then going to get, hopefully, the second interview. The second interview, I will say that if you go from the interview, little cool pro tip, to the second interview, you are more way more likely than not to then actually get the offer for the internship, right? I think that getting the the interview is a big deal, but then getting that second interview is way more cutthroat. So, I got to be

27:06honest there. During the second interview, you typically go out to the office. You go there in person, you get a tour, you get another interview, you then meet a bunch of people. Like, it's actually kind of fun. Like, I feel like the first interview, at least for me, I thought it was a bit more stressful than the second interview cuz the second interview is a lot more fun. I remember even when I did the the second interview, I remember I did like back-to-back interviews, which sounds kind of crazy. Like, I'd go into a room, do like a 30-minute interview, and then immediately go to another room,

27:34do a a second 30-minute interview immediately after the first one, right? So, like, it's a whole process when it comes to interviewing and all this kind of stuff. But uh I will say the second interview, if anything, is I think a lot more fun, and you are way more likely to get the internship after the second interview. But remember, at the end of the day, this all comes down to doing all these things correctly cuz there are a lot of different factors, being honest, that kind of get brought up to determine should you get the internship or not, should you get that offer for the internship or not. And the biggest

28:02one, like I said a million times, is meeting as many people as possible, attending the events, doing all this kind of stuff. Of course, being professional, but also personal at the same time. Going to as many places as possible, as many meet and greets as possible. Cuz among all this, once you do that, you have two great interviews, with all these things being combined, the recruiters will hopefully look, see what you've done, see who you are,

28:24evaluate you, and say, "You know what? They're the type of person we want for that internship."