8 Playbooks You Can Try

0:00How did you make money with AI? I built a mobile app that makes me $20,000 per month. We just hit a million dollars in AR from 0 to 50K monthly, 4.5 million in annual recurring. You're about to meet eight people who did it who will show you how they did it. We've built an AI coding app without any

0:16coding experience. By the way, I don't know how to code, right? This is my first experience VI coding. The entire infrastructure is managed very easily when you do V coding. We'll watch their videos and talk about how you can do it too. presented by Zapier, the AI automation company. Heat and I want you to take a look at this

0:32founder right here. Listen. Hey, so we just hit a million dollars in ARR with our SAS product which we use clog code to build and is the SAS. It's called Clarbo. It is essentially an AI enabled power dialer. And just to unpack those words, what this does is it allows us to make more calls per unit time and then have more of those calls picked up on the back end. And that works really well and is very powerful if you're in an industry that is traditionally pretty call based. So, I wonder what you think of this business. I'm going to play a couple of clips here and then let's talk about

1:02him. So, how do you actually use Claude here? Well, I should note that we didn't actually know how to solve this problem when we started. We actually had Claude walk us through every possible way that it knew of to improve pickup rates and increase the total number of calls we could make per unit ton. And uh most of the ideas were absolute trash. But after mining Claude for 200 300 ideas, a couple of them were actually pretty good. And so the process if you're interested is we literally said hey we're building insert product here. You know it is in our case an AI power dialer for local service businesses like

1:31HVAC plumbing roofing etc. Our core metric to optimize is call pickup rate which is defined as the percentage of dial numbers that result in a okay he specifically told claude go fire up a bunch of agents and with these constraints come up with ideas. He said most of the ideas were absolute garbage. And then he hit on this one idea that became Clarbo. Do you think that's a good in your experience having invested in companies, launched companies, is

1:56that a good model to do to to launch? I think the part that's really valuable that he described was the fact that there were 200 ideas that he had Claude sort of go after. Um, and then I'm assuming he or Claude's help dug into the ideas and found the good ones. So that part is a process I use for almost anything which is because with AI we can generate more concepts or ideas or just things. So generate a lot of them and then I would just use the AI to help find the right one based on my judgment and criteria that I'm feeding

2:33to the AI. Did you do that with type ahead the business you recently launched? Yeah, a lot of the a lot of the way that we thought about this product and the copy and the reason it lands when people go there is because it's all fully baked on research and options and different things we tested with the AI to find the

2:52exact right words like this whole idea. That's copy. But did you actually come up with an idea because Claude Code gave you 20,000 ideas and you picked the one that made the most sense? No, but this is different. So Andrew like we have to go a layer deeper. He didn't say, "I came up with the business idea." That's not what he said. He said, "I came up with the way to optimize this product idea I already had." That's what

3:14he said. Got it? That's very different. I'm not saying you should have Cloud come up with 200 business ideas and you pick two or three. That's fine, but that that's nuance here. Think of it this way. He gave AI the container and within that container, the AI decided to come up with all these ideas and he picked one. That's my interpretation of what I heard. It wasn't You're 100% right. I get that nuance that makes sense. Okay. And he basically said, "Look, here's the problem that my customers have. Here's the number that we're trying to hit for them. Help me come up with a solution for it." All

3:42right. So, AI is good at that kind of ideation. Let's go to the next person. I want to know what you think of this one. Here is I interviewed this person. He's fantastic. Listen to uh what he does. Build Shipper, which is an AI app builder. Essentially, essentially, it's kind of like lovable or replet um but with some more. and we'll talk about what they do. Um, here actually

4:05how much revenue this thing is making. So, we're currently at 25.6K MR as you can see here. Net volume 65K. That's last month plus what we did this month. AR is 307K. So, the majority of our MR is here, but we've migrated Stripe accounts just I love that you migrated Stripe accounts. Really, as a founder, you just want to show people, look, I have these bulk bank accounts. they really all uh all connect up. He's saying that he's

4:32different from lovable because of this. So most of these other apps you can only build websites or web apps at this moment. With Shipper, you can build websites, web apps, mobile apps from extensions and all sorts of bots. Okay. And and we're both non-technical. We never really like to code. So instead, we've decided to learn marketing. Our first

4:52real success was a luxury good of any. Okay. Okay. And then finally, I have seen their ads. Here's where they they promote. Not ads. I have seen their We got our first user through Product Hunt, Reddit, SEO, and then X Twitter. Have you seen them on X, by the way? No, I haven't. They are so good at getting my attention. They will get over a million views on their tweets. And it's something like, uh, Claude 4.8 is so good, it's scary, or Opus 4.8 is so good, it's scary. and then they will link over to their to their other tweet which says that you can use shipper and

5:26opus to build a site. Here's the thing that I wonder about this. They are very similar to these bigger companies. What do you think about non non-developers competing with lovable and all these other businesses? Is is that an option? These products have made the market. So, Lovable and Bolt and uh emergent uh have essentially made the market by essentially marketing to the market. So, every dollar they spend on marketing is like, you know, valuable if you're in that category to you as well because these are all new categories. So, this one to me like is in this category where I have this concept where X is like the

6:10new website. And when I say that, what I mean is we had a lot of website creators back in the day. They were all different shapes and sizes. You had your neighbor who could h do use HTML and Dreamweaver to be able to build a site for you who might be in your 30s or 40s. At that time, this was when I this is going to date us. This is when we were younger. We would be that person. there were people like us that knew all this stuff about how to build a website and their neighbor who's a dentist needed a

6:42website. So in some ways the way I view and and I and that is I don't even mean the website creation or any of that. It it's really the idea that there are people that have skill sets because of the knowledge they have and they're manifesting those into helping other people. So these folks being non-engineers are essentially doing some version of the same thing because the market is just so massive at least that's what people think and with lovables revenue bolts revenue emergence growth rate like these things are basically saying that there is just a massive market out there. So that's all to tell you that the reason this is

7:21working is because they are good at getting the distribution. I don't know what their churn looks like. I don't care about the differentiation they said because it's temporary, right? So that's not gonna last. And with a few tricks, you can make all these other tools make Chrome extensions too. So is that really the thing? So the hidden secret here is the fact that somehow they got to 16K followers on the account, but it's likely this was an old

7:48account. Maybe. I don't know. This is the account for their business individually. They have good they have stronger accounts, but also they're very good at getting attention. They're very good at these oneliners that tap into what's going on on X. Okay. So, what you're saying is, Andrew, it doesn't matter if they're these bigger players. In fact, it's helpful that they're these bigger players that are doing essentially the same thing. The differentiation in the software doesn't matter. They have a really good chance because they figured out this one type of marketing to this type of person on X

8:18on Reddit. And I don't know how long that'll last, Andrew. And even that line you said is like, think of it this way. If they say I think they're more careful from what you're saying, but if they say these crazy lines and that gets attention, cool. Yeah. If their product can do crazy things or say it does crazy things and it can't do

8:38it, they're going to have high churn. So, it's likely this actually has much higher churn, you know, than I used it. No, the vision does well is because they built it on uh on Claude's software essentially on on those models. All right, let's go to the next one. Oh, this guy I interviewed. Listen to how much money this dude is making. I think people can copy this. Tell me what you think of this model. How much money

9:00are you making? You're sitting at about four and a half million in annual recurring. I Here's what he does. Fractional chief AI officer model. And let me just emphasize that fractional chief financial a fractional chief AI officer essentially is what he is. He's the guy who comes into your company and says to you, "The way you're doing things is old. There's a new AI way. Let me help integrate it." Um, and that's not ARR, Andrew. That can't be

9:26ARR. Uh, you know what he ended up doing? Yeah. Um, you know what? I think you're you're you're right. They all say it's AR and it's not. Let's let's hear what he said in the video. Good call. How much money are you making? We're sitting at about 4 and a half million in annual recurring.

9:43But but he's charging subscriptions now. But you still don't believe that that's really ARR. Why? If it's $4.5 million of AR, okay, there's two two things. Yeah, I can I can say I believe that. Fine. Is it recurring? What is the churn? Like those are the kind of questions. It's not usually this ARR is not the same as like full 100% software ARR,

10:09right? So the second piece of it is he's actually just augmenting human with AI and doing a services business. You and I both know it's easier to get a services business to higher numbers than a software business these days with caveats. So my my criticism here, if there is any, is this is not a software business. if it was vibecoded. He's teaching people how how to use AI and all that. That's what everyone's trying to do and everyone wants that because everyone's trying to do it. So, in some ways, that last idea was lovable, bold, they're drafting on the marketing and the market those products have created,

10:46those businesses have created. This thing is drafting on the fact that everyone wants to implement AI, right? So, same thing, just very big market. They're taking their chunk of it and he's probably figured out some distribution on it. But this is a services business. What do you think of the fact that it's a services business though? I don't think that's bad. I'm just saying we should call it what it is. I don't know if that's ARR. I just don't

11:09know. I think you know what? I think you're right. There are a lot of people who use annual revenue and ARR in the same way because they assume that if they earn this money last year or expect to earn it this year, they're going to next year because if they get customers who leave recurring means the same customer keeps paid,

11:28right? If you get churn, if you get churn and not the same customers paying you, but you have a high top of funnel or something like that, great. But if they pay you for three months, is it annual? It's it ARR is annualize recurring revenue. The recurring part is the part where I usually have a bigger gripe than you annualize because annualize is by nature times 12 of whatever they're looking at. But it only is x times 12 if it actually recurs. My argument here is I don't know. And okay, fair. Let tell me what you think. All right. So fair about that. Tell me what you think about

12:01his business. Here's essentially what he does. Like I said, he sees how your business operates. He comes in and he becomes your chief AI officer. He implements software. He comes back in and make sure that the software is hitting your goal. So every month you're paying him to do that. His next thing is he's installing a version of OpenClaw that he created that is built on the Nvidia's model of OpenClaw that you will feel more safe in. And that way he's shifting into software but he's not now. What do you think of this as a business as a way of making money with what you know about

12:34AI? I think it's great, especially if he's going to transition transition to something recurring. I think some of the ways he's thinking about it, I could poke holes at like the Nvidia more secure, less secure. Like I could argue that five ways to Sunday. No, it's just like it's a narrative. The narrative is Nvidia's version of OpenClaw is more secure. I'm not saying whether it is or isn't, but the point is even coming at it from I'm doing my version of OpenClaw off of this thing, that doesn't matter. It's just software running a bot for you in

13:06Slack. So, how the software runs, nobody really cares about. They don't really care that it's Open Claw except that Open Claw is marketing today and Nvidia's version of it is more secure, which it probably is. But does any of that matter to the person that you're selling to? Maybe. But it doesn't really matter how it's running. So, I guess it's really awesome that he's found a a thing to go sell to companies that can make money that's like helping them with AI. Moving to this model makes perfect sense if you if you think about what he said, which is I

13:39go in, I help find opportunities for AI. I help them realize those opportunities, then I have a recurring fee to help them maintain what I created for them. Yes, that should ideally be sitting in some software. It's essentially a mini version of what OpenAI and Claude and even Palunteer are doing with their forward deploy engineers. Uh, and that's the concept here. So, he's a forward

14:01deploy AI transformation officer. Cool. Like Palunteer does that. He likes you like the business. Claude tries to do it for every area they can. Even OpenAI is trying to do it. All the consulting companies are trying to do it. So again, massive market makes sense. There's money to be had if you're doing new stuff like this. Let's go to I like your skepticism. I honestly thought the two of us were going to gawk at these businesses and go, "Oh my, this is great. This is this is what people can copy. I didn't think you'd be this skeptical about them." I like it. Keep it up because I'm the

14:31person who's like like cheerleader for entrepreneurs. Oh, by the way, speaking of cheerle leader for entrepreneurs, my sponsor is Zapier. Zapier MCP. With one simple thing, collection toolbox, I get to bring Heaton everything into all the AI tools that I use. And one day I might be on Claude the chat app. The next day I might be on uh Hermes agent, which I freaking love lately. The next day I might be on I don't know what else is coming out. And what I like is I have one collection of tools that I can give them with clear restrictions so that I don't have my Hermes agent sending

15:01messages to Heaton as me by accident. Go check them out at zapier.commcp. Next, Peter Yang had this interview. Do you know this guy with T-Bone? You seen him on Twitter? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. here. Listen to how much he's making with I'm just going to highlight one of it. Doing a little bit more than 600,000 per month right now, which is

15:23And that's insane. It is insane. 600,000 a month. That's just one business. That's Revit. Here's what Revit does. Revid, which is a tool to make viral short on social media. And it was right at the beginning of AI videos. And so it took off multiple times like at every new model increasing the capabilities of AI videos. It just got way better. And so it's uh doing a little bit more than 600,000 per month right now, which is uh

15:53insane with a team. This is great. Here's how he's getting his customers. SEO is the number one acquisition channel for Revit. So it's it's totally search engine optimization. He's creating AI videos. Um, and let's talk about how he's using AI toward. Honestly, I have a have a very basic setup. Uh, so I'm using cursor. I'm constantly experimenting with the best models. Like right now, my my go-to models are GPT uh 5.4 for um like all the

16:29like the the complex stuff. Let me pause right there. What do you think so far of what you're seeing here? I wonder what his costs are. Oo, because you're you're saying that because he's relying so heavily on AI to create these AI videos, the cost might be high. I just want to know what the costs are. That's the that's the piece that I would dig into. I mean, it's all a fair business and all that. And, you know, like, you know, to to hit on something you said earlier, like I'm I'm not a

16:58cheerleader for founders. I'm a coach. If you're the cheerleader, I'm the coach. What they need to know is like the good, bad, and ugly of what's happening here. So the good here is that he's found something that AI has a cost advantage to humans doing it, which is essentially making these kind of videos, right?

17:16Okay, cool. But if he's making 600K, I want to know what his costs are because the cost of making a video with AI is very expensive. So I doubt the cost is 500K. I could be wrong, but the cost is probably like 2, three, 400K in that in that thing. And if not, if I'm more on the aggressive side, if they're using the better models, cost could be closer to like 4 500 than it is two or 300k just for producing those videos. I don't

17:46know the answer. If the costs were expensive today, would you still get in the business? Would I'd only get in any of these businesses. Frankly, Andrew, if I had a distribution advantage, otherwise I wouldn't get into any of these businesses. Okay, fair. I think one of his distribution advantages is that he is so popular on Twitter also. And so that's

18:04why Peter Yang probably invited him on. That's why we're all following along. Um he's also talked about his failed businesses like that feather which is the second from the top on the chart is actually so low on the bottom of the chart that you can hardly see it. That was a tool for turning notion pages into websites. He bought it and essentially the day after notion came out with the exact same feature so you could build websites in notion natively and the thing just hang. So but he talked about it publicly. He got attention. I like what you're saying there. Let's go on to the next one. I have I have a few more

18:33here. All right. From starter story, I built a mobile app that makes me $20,000 per month. This is my app, the Cut Coach. It helps combat sport athletes cut weight for their competition or fight coming up. And the started building the Cut Coach app in June of last year using Cursor and Chad GBT. It took me around a month to build the MVP and I gave it to my wrestling club to beta test after I finished building it. All right. I wanted you to just see also how he's getting

19:03customers. Yeah. So, for marketing, I would say to start off with organic posts. I got the ideas from social media pages that were in the same niche as mine, which I then adapted to my app. An example of the first video that I posted organically was a video where I showed what a UFC fighter looked like on a weight cut and

19:22what they look like after their wake up. I also added a call to action at the end of the video to give users an incentive to download my app. I noticed that the videos didn't get that many views, but I also noticed that the people that were viewing my posts were very high intent viewers as I noticed around 10 to 15 downloads per day from posts that got

19:42anywhere from 200 to to 500 views. That's really killer. What do you think of this business? I think that it there's uh probably unlimited amount of niche opportunities like this if you're willing to do organic social and organic social meaning Tik Tok and Instagram. Um if you're willing to do that and do what he did, you can find opportunities like this. Is this a business that gets to 2 million a month? Probably not. Is it a business that can get to like 100K, 50K, all that? Probably. And I'm just sharing that criteria just so that if someone gets into these businesses, they understand this could do maybe 200 a

20:22month max. It probably can't do a lot more because there's just not that many people that need something like this or want something like this. At least I'm imagining that, right? Or it'd be really hard to get to them outside of these organic channels. So, uh, give me a little bit about your background so people understand why you

20:39have such insights. Uh, for the last 20 plus years, I've just been doing product and marketing for online businesses, software and stuff like that, and built my own businesses. You went quiet. You have no problem telling people that their that their ARR is not real, but [laughter] when it comes time to telling me about like your background, so he went quiet. All right, let's go to the next one. All right. Uh, this guy's got good money. Later, we're at $100,000 AR

21:09and more than 5,000 users. Neat guy. It's a platform that takes that takes away the work of having to combine multiple tools in order to produce an AI video. Uh so today, people use multiple tools from multiple platforms. They pay multiple subscriptions and they need to have some technical knowledge to stitch everything together. Learner is aimed to

21:32Hey, AI explainer videos next level. Here's the thing though. Look at what he built it in. Then everything is managed very easily when you do V coding especially with bass. So without having to give up on my studio completely I was able to build something on the side. Let me pause. He's he's a developer. He's not developing. He's you don't like the phrase vibe coding. I think he's vibe coding it. He's using bass 44. Can we say anyone who's in bass 44 that's like lovable? You're basically vibe coding. It's a better tool than the other ones qualitywise from every Yeah, we we've studied a bunch of these and it

22:09actually produces better results than other ones uh right out of the box. Uh vibe coding or not, I think this, you know, the other business was AI video gen business. This one is I think one thing to keep in mind is that there's an arbitrage right now of people who know how to do these things and people who don't. M and the arbitrage is basically people know who know how to do a in this case is people who know how to do AI generated video which is not he's right it's not easy it's not easy to get it to be good or great is a whole another

22:41problem um we actually completely built our type ahead video uh it's on our YouTube um fully AI it's not on the homepage it's not on the website actually doesn't need to be uh but it is on YouTube you type in type ahead you should find it but that video is a minute long it's fully AI But it wasn't built in an hour. It took days and days because we wanted to use AI to to build it. Yeah. You should just

23:06type in type ahead. You should see it. And it's a minute long. It's the first one. Yeah. And it's fully AI. And humans have been typing the exact personally know the pain. I personally know the pain of trying to do what he's saying. And that pain is really hard. I mean even in this case we we didn't want to pay for the uh uh stock audio for typing so we actually made it with AI like things like that little things but like this was like days and days of work like this wasn't something we could do overnight and you do one prompt and it'll come out like

23:42this or you give it a script. So I totally understand the business he's talking about and how hard it is to get that right. And if you get it right, then of course you might have that bright idea to go do this, you know, and build a product for it. But again, I just want to be specific here. There is a mental model where it's like things that took humans and cost hundreds to thousands of dollars are now able to be done for literally a fraction of the

24:08cost if you know how to use the tools. Okay. And so the interesting thing is again, he's using base 44, super easy. And look at how he's getting customers since you've said look the distribution is a big question. Is it going to play? Did I tell you that I v coded this? Uh I'll tell you he's just using organic LinkedIn. He's not

24:29even buying any ads. Okay, I see. Huh. I like that too, right? Yeah. No, it's great. I mean the thing is he said studio. So, I wonder if he had a video production or some kind of studio uh prior and that's what gave him the idea and understanding of how to get these clients too.

24:48Okay. Uh this is one of my favorite people. This is Greg Eisenberg doing an interview with someone who's doing $737 a day. Look at this business. My cloud code directory. Luxury restroom trailers. Boring but awesome niche. People are spending $1,000, $2,000 a day renting these out for their weddings, you know, there's corporate events, film sets. Looks totally like the kind of thing that you can that I'm going to say vibe code that you how I'm using cloud code and an open- source GitHub repo called Crawford AI to handle any kind of data curation. So, okay. So, fairly easy to build these things. These things frankly heat and I

25:31think have been easy to build even going back to the WordPress days right super simple systematic the big question you're probably going to ask is how is he getting the top three ways to get distribution nowadays are ads organic social and SEO like those are the big three so choose your distribution I made the mistake of not focusing on distribution first and directories are a distribution first model they kind of have an unfair advantage when it comes to SEO because if I create this directory or when I publish this directory, I kind of have this topical relevance where I have like a thousand pages all around luxury

26:08restroom trailers. Great idea, right? You look for Austin luxury restroom. He could come up. Yeah, it's really smart. I I I think this is again a niche idea. He has an advantage of understanding it from some background or whatever it sounds like. Um this is good. This I would call vibecoded for sure because it's less software and more like you said things and directories and things we did. This is vibe codable. I think the hard part but back in the day was getting the data. Now it's much easier to get the

26:38data. So now if I wanted to come up with another idea like this the the luxury restroom trailers of something else. How do I find other topics, other things that I can set this up for? So how we found this back in the day with the directories was we did a bunch of uh keyword research right on what people were typing into Google and then we structured the directories around what people were typing in meaning like Google trends type of

27:04thing. Uh no uh like using ahrefs or or semrush or one of those products or Uber suggest and trying to figure out like what uh keywords uh are popular enough where building a directory around them makes sense. So, for some reason, this luxury restroom trailer, it's really restroom trailer, I think, or even like portable restrooms, things like that. I don't know the terms. Obviously, this person does. And so, it's probably restroom trailer is my guess. And uh that build a directory entirely around that. If it's like Austin restroom trailer or, you know, San Francisco restroom trailer or whatever, although all of San Francisco is a restroom, right? That's what they

27:46say. Uh so, yeah. These are big. And Austin, um, here we go. This final one, I don't think he's doing this, but his model is interesting, and I'd like to see what you think of this. Here's here's his model. Basically, what we're going to do is we're going to build out a web app tool and monetize it using ads. Now, just to give you guys some examples what I'm talking about, we're talking about things like mortgage calculators, typing tests, business name

28:13generators, other types of calculators. Those are super easy to create. Hey, here's how much revenue he says you can make. A monthly traffic of let's say a million people, you're making between $3 to $6,000. It's Do you think by the way that that's possible having done this? Yeah, this is possible. This is totally possible. It just goes back to the research. Like how are you going to get the traffic for these things? If it's Google, then you got to figure out how to get Google. And he's right. It's low balance and utility. Exactly what that summarizes exactly what it is which is very simple and wellknown but most

28:46people don't understand this or do it which is if someone comes from Google search your job is to make sure they don't bounce and that means you're providing utility for them so that the intent of the keyword they put in matches the landing page which then matches the next step that they take. Thus they're not clicking back to Google. And if you have that, you can rank because your product's better than someone who should

29:10in theory. Yeah, correct. Here's how he's building it. I never not needing experience. All you basically do is use English to help guide the horizon's AI builder. It's going to understand the prompt that you submitted. This is very similar to shipper where you just prompted whatever you guys put. So as you can see it understood what we are asking and now it is starting to build out the foundation of our app over here on the right. If you want to make any changes to what it's doing, uh, you can do all that right here just with written English. Might also ask you some questions or have you input certain

29:43information and it's all done within here, right? So, think about you're basically okay, basically we we've chatting with this business works and he's he's vibe coding these here. There it is that calculate your perfect mortgage payment. Good business model, easy to create. Probably can spend three, five hours to make something like this, don't you think? Yeah, you [snorts] can make it pretty fast. Yeah, I don't know about distribution. You still need to do things to get it promoted so Google will rank it and sees it. But outside of that, yeah, the the hard part isn't the

30:15actual website. Of all of these, which business do you think is the easiest one to create? The AI the AI the AI learning the AI, you know, the one that's the AI what is it? Chief AI officer. I think that's actually the easiest. Oh, you're right. and he's the one who's I think making the most of all of these

30:34people. Yeah, I think that's the easiest business right now. I think all the other ones are almost cir circling around the same thing. Not all of them, not the mortgage one, but anything that's AI is circling around this idea that there's AI arbitrage. AI arbitrage means you know how to do something with AI that other people don't. Whether it's the video gen or this stuff, it's all the same category in terms of framework of how to come up with ideas or what

30:56kind of ideas that you can come up with. learn something that's valuable for companies, not individuals, but for companies around AI and go try to go sell it to them. That's what he's doing. It's great. Why aren't you in this business? You've never been afraid of the consulting or or agency business. I I I think there's uh most of my software will be in a business like this if it scales or as it scales because deploying AI is what companies are thinking through right now. Um, I think the consulting and the training part, you you you still need distribution. I do free AI lessons every week. They're

31:35about 30 minutes of a lesson and then a bunch of Q&A. This week's topic is about GitHub and I'm doing a GitHub for non-engineers sort of topic just to give people an idea of how you what you need to know about GitHub if you work at a company that uses GitHub even if you're

31:52not an engineer. And that's a way to understand AI better. So, for me, it's more like um trying to trying to trying to figure out what is worth helping people with that isn't going to be this kind of rocky journey that doesn't need to be so rocky. And what I mean by that is new model comes out, you want your product or business to be better, not worse, right? Things like that. So, yeah, I think it's a good business. I I think more people should consider it. But again, to me, these agents or this AI is like the new website. If you have skills on building a website and other people

32:32don't, you can essentially help them do it and get your get your money that way. Okay, so all those others make sense. This is the one. If I had to pick a business to start, this is the one. I agree with you. This does seem like the shest success, especially when you think about how he got his first customer to and so I just jumped on LinkedIn and started messaging some people. And eventually, you know, that that same day had a CEO, a local CEO that I didn't know really well, but we kind of had crossed paths a couple times. So, it was

33:00I would call it a lukewarm lead. LinkedIn. All right, Katon, this is exciting. Thanks for doing this with me. I'm looking forward to seeing more businesses. I want to interview more entrepreneurs who build using these tools. All right. Your point about this guy, John Cheney, being the person who has the easiest model is a good one. I interviewed multiple entrepreneurs who do it. In fact, on a video right here, you're going to see me tell the stories of all those entrepreneurs, and you'll

33:23get to follow up there. Go there next.