Day in the Life of a Millionaire FBI Hostage Negotiator

0:00This is Chris [music] Voss, a former FBI hostage negotiator. He's negotiated cases with terrorists, [music] kidnappers, criminals, and handled over 150 cases across the world [music] where one wrong sentence could cost someone their life. He's also the author of Never Split the Difference, a book that turned life or [music] death negotiations into everyday tactics that business owners can use in their business and their everyday life. But, here's [music] the thing, almost everyone is using them wrong. So, today we're going behind the scenes with [music] Chris at his house to see how you can use these tactics to get anything that you want. Let's get to the

0:32episode.

0:40[music] Can I get the office tour? All right. Yeah, please. Come on right on in and and welcome into my office. Thank you. Ooh. So, when I bought this about 2 years ago, this was just a bedroom with completely white walls. None of this was here. None of it. My girlfriend being a wants me to be some place where I enjoy working from, so she redesigned everything. She had She had the wood panel on the walls put in. She had the ceiling installed. She searched

1:07high and low for the light. Before we got into negotiation tactics, Chris gave us a tour of his house. Every object in the [music] room had a story behind it. From a tiny rhino his mom brought back from Africa to a fake cat connected to a Broadway show to his own book sitting on the shelf [music] behind his desk. One of the most famous negotiation books in the world. So, naturally, I wanted to know the [music] story behind them. Over here, on this bookshelf, I see your book. I see you strategically have it right behind your

1:34seat. Oh, how did that work out? I mean, I Was it Oh, wow. I didn't realize. So, in your book, there's a line talking about compromising. [music] What can an entrepreneur take from that lesson? Never be so sure of what you want that you wouldn't take something better. So, compromise is based on first [music] the

1:48belief that you know what you want. There's always something better, always. And then, even if I completely get [music] my way, if If feel uninvolved, you're not going to comply. My Harvard brothers and sisters, I've learned so much from them. They are so smart. They still talk about the yesable proposition. Let me lay a proposition in front of you that's so well researched and so thorough that all you have to do is say yes. You don't feel involved. You participated in no way, shape, or form to that perfect outcome. So, even if I give you a perfect outcome, you got to be involved [music] in the production,

2:22the process, the ownership of it. Compromise is intended to [music] short-circuit that collaboration. So, both of us are going to lack enthusiasm for the outcome, which means implementation is going to be filled with friction and expensive and problems, and we're going to hold [music] back from each other every step of the way cuz we weren't happy to begin with. That's what compromise does. What are you still [music] a student in the

2:45game of? How do we help open people's eyes to how delightful this is? But, we've discovered a lot of stuff that you have yet to discover. We're going to shorten the learning curve. Nine times out of 10, we can help you become a better negotiator. How do I How do I do that in a way that's [music] doesn't make you feel judged or belittled? And, you know, we hate We hate seeing people waste [music] time and money when it could be put to better use. We're making the world a better place [music] through

3:07prosperity. How did you even get started working with the FBI? I was a police officer in Kansas City, Missouri Police Department. Buddy of mine and I, we saw [music] this movie about the super cops, and these guys were wildly innovative, very creative. I was struck by how creative they were. I'm a I'm a living in a small town in

3:23Iowa. Let me look around close by. [music] My father had just paid for a 4-year degree. His deal with his kids was, you know, I'll bankroll you for 4 years. You don't get a degree in 4 years, that is not my [music] problem. I got my degree in 4 years, and I go down and get a job doesn't need a degree. He perceived federal law enforcement to be a step up, but I interviewed with him really well, and and I got in. Up until this point, Chris has shared [music] a lot about his story, but what he's about to share next is the best part. Now,

3:50he's negotiated in over 150 negotiation cases, and he's about to share the moment that changed the way he looks at negotiation [music] forever. Let's do it. Were you really curious about learning psychology, learning body language, all of these things, or not yet? I'd rather call [music] it learning emotional intelligence. Most cops come out of the academy, and you're all full all full of testosterone. [music] The detectives in Kansas City were having a dispute with management. I ended up riding with [music] this guy. He was great with people, and I saw him talk to people and get results in ways that I'd never seen before. Her tone of voice

4:24[music] and respect, as opposed to telling people what to do. We're on a We're on a disturbance call [music] one time. We're in a black neighborhood, you know, so everybody's black. It's black neighborhood. Tough. So, this guy's [music] has disciplined his kid, and mom's worried about dad being a little bit heavy-handed with the kid, and she calls us in as a disturbance. And we're talking to this [music] guy, and he says, you know, he did something wrong, and I got to punish him for that, and I

4:47know he did it wrong cuz he admitted it. And he said, "Make no mistake. You guys leave, I'm giving [music] them a whooping." And my initial instinct would have been from previous, like, "You do that, we're coming back and locking you [music] up." And the detective with me says he says, "You do what you want. It's your house. If you do that, you found [music] out cuz you asked him, and he told you the truth. And you're going

5:07to punish him for telling you the truth. Is that what you want to do?" And you see the guy relax, and the the truth of that, you know, the the the clarity of that. I never would have thought that. So, I didn't realize that I'm [music] starting to get interested in emotional intelligence, if you will, then. Can we break down for [music] somebody watching right now what happened in that moment? He was bringing down that guy or speaking [music] a little bit to his ego and what he has ownership of, which is his home, elevating him to know so he doesn't see him as a threat, right? Autonomy is the

5:35first driver [music] of human nature. Maslow's wrong. Maslow would say that survival was the first driver of human nature. Well, what's the underlying battle cry of the [music] United States? Give me liberty or give me death. Give me my autonomy or kill me. If your autonomy is threatened, you can't listen. So, let's go back to your

5:52journey. [music] So, you're in New York. You now hear and you get this great example of emotional intelligence. Is that what kind of sparked [music] you wanting to learn more? inside to work with the investigators and it was a team of all-stars. Everybody on that squad had had either a book written about a case that they'd done or movie made about it and the vast majority [music] of them had Attorney General Awards, which is like the highest award. The three FBI agents a year get that. When I was in Pittsburgh, [music] nobody'd had a book or movie done about anything they'd done and nobody had [music] won the Attorney

6:23General's Award. And I'm on a squad surrounded by these guys. One of one of the guys [music] who was everybody respected as the best investigator is this guy named Larry Wack. And Larry [music] was a super low-key guy. He had one string after another of cases he made of people that [music] cooperated with him voluntarily. And Larry's emotional intelligence was through the roof. I decided that [music] you know, I want to be a hostage negotiator. And I got rejected. The woman in charge of the team said, "Look, the only way you can ever get in is to go volunteer on a suicide hotline." And I was just blown away at how fast

6:54[music] you can get changes in people's decision-making. me through if we were to kind of go back to [music] Chris doing the suicide hotlines, what were those one to three first lessons that you learned [music] that really snapped in your brain of of understanding negotiation and just how other people carry [music] themselves in those those moments? Empathy was not sympathy. Somebody's in quicksand, sympathy is getting in the quicksand

7:15with them, which means you both die. We're here to be empathetic, which is then makes people [music] feel inside like they can handle it. You're not giving advice. Cuz if I give you advice, I'm telling you that I'm smarter than you. They got to take ownership. And they say, "Your your call [music] time is limited to 20 minutes." And I

7:29remember thinking, "Like, 20 minutes?" And they said, "No, no, if you're doing it right, it'll take less time than that." And lo and behold, 1,000%. [music] If you've gone over 20 minutes, you're doing something wrong. You're in the FBI up until 2007, [music] correct? Yes. And then you kind of retired. Why did you step away? I was eligible to retire and the universe lined up [music] in a way that was showing me the door. There was a senior level member of management that had no

7:51use for me. He was effectively candid. [music] I was always a maverick. I was a loose cannon that hit the target. Well, last time there was a difference of opinion and I left, my life got better. So, I said this is a sign from the universe. What have you noticed is different [music] about taking some of these skill sets in business versus bringing it home to your spouse? The longer you're around somebody, the more likely it is that you wounded them inadvertently. [music] If you're my significant other and I say to you, "Seems like that annoys you." And it's the 75th time I've done it, your

8:18response is, "Seems like seems like." They don't [music] want you to be tentative. That also has to do with to some degree with customer service. You're behind a front desk at a hotel. Guest is screaming at you about something. You can't say, "Seems like you're angry." Seems like I'm angry? The better response when it's clear is, "I know you're angry with me." It's a way [music] of holding up in front of them the absurdity of what's going on without making them feel accused. We've all heard his [music] late night FM radio voice. So, I had to ask him how he uses it. [music] And what is the difference

8:50between manipulation and influence? Let's ask him. For an entrepreneur watching, I want to do a little bit of a rapid fire [music] of some body language things that you can point out when somebody is maybe [music] manipulating or lying. Is it tone of voice? Is it blinking eye rates? Are all of those things true?

9:06I got a resting serial killer face. Well, I look when I'm listening. So, in any given body language, there are three possibilities, at least. [music] So, you know, if I ask you a question and you you look down before you answer, your real [music] response to that is that seems like something just crossed your mind. Now, you talk about your late night FM voice. What are some things that entrepreneurs [music] can carry to show up with confidence or different skill sets they can kind of have [music] in their toolbox stepping into these conversations on how they carry

9:32themselves? The late night FM DJ voice is mostly [music] downward inflecting where you're talking, which means all you got to do is drop your chin when you're talking. That's the only thing you got [music] to do cuz it automatically downward inflects your voice. And when do you utilize that voice in a conversation? Usually when I want to both calm you and reassure you. There's a beginning entrepreneur [music] watching this and they're stepping into

9:52a lot of these sales conversations. They're building relationships with their [music] team and stepping into these leadership positions. They don't necessarily know where to start. What would be your advice [music] to that person? Empathy is an accelerator for relationships. As a leader, you think you need to tell people what to do. No, that's uh dictatorship. Communicate with somebody in a slower pace and ultimately

10:11save a tremendous amount of time. Whenever anybody disagrees with you, look at them and say, "It seems like you have a reason for saying that." And say those exact words. They just want to be heard. And as soon as they get a chance to say something out loud, maybe they'll talk themselves out of it. How can you tell [music] the difference between someone that's negotiating and someone that's manipulating? And what is

10:30the difference between the two words? Cuz oftentimes [music] people get that confused. If I tell you how smart you are because I want to want you to agree with a course of action that you probably might not [music] want to might do. You know, that's flattery. Deception by omission is manipulation. [music] But if where I'm taking you is going to be a better leave you better off and I'm not ashamed of where I'm taking you. I want us to [music] collaborate. I want us both to both to prosper. How much you get, how much I get, you know, that remains to be

10:55seen. But I'm not here to beat you. That's influence. I want to be grateful. I want to be appreciative. [music] I want to talk with you about what your greater purpose in life is. Chris introduces to the people who help run the Black Swan Group. And his team doesn't operate [music] out of some giant corporate office. They work right inside his home. So, I wanted to find out what it's like [music] to work side by side with one of the greatest

11:16negotiators alive. Danny, so you are Chris's right-hand woman. You are handling everything for him as his assistant. Tell me, what does your day-to-day look like? My [music] day-to-day revolves around making sure Chris has everything he needs to be successful and he doesn't have to think about anything other than the higher level stuff. I'm handling the minutia, the the stuff people do for themselves, I do for Chris. Being an EA is not easy. I just want to applaud you for that because I know you're handling

11:43a lot. Now, you guys have a unique, diverse [music] just set up here where his work team, where his direct team is actually working out [music] of his home every single day. Almost every single day. And also help guide the team a little bit. Can we meet them? Yeah, absolutely. Come on in, you guys. Let's do it. All right.

12:00So, this is our Vegas team. I'm interested [music] to know how did you get connected to Chris? So, Chris actually poached me. I work at a UPS Poached? What do you mean poached? [laughter] He used the negotiation? Yeah, he used negotiation tactics on me. I worked at a retail UPS store for a little while, and he was a customer there, and he essentially liked how I converse with customers, and he thought I had a good head on me. [music] So, he uh he poached

12:27me to the this company. And how long ago was that? Uh that's 3 years now. 3 years [music] ago. Did you know anything about social media starting this job? I did. I I did some filming uh amateur style, and then he uh he used the Black Swan skills on me to bring that out of me, and he allowed me to focus that on that work here. Well, it's great to meet you. I want to come over here. What do you take care of? Uh I'm Nate. I'm the head of marketing [music]

12:51here at Black Swan Group. What does your day-to-day look like? Oh, wow. Every single day is different. Chris is constantly [music] having opportunities from left, right, and all over coming at us, and it's kind of my job in the marketing department to decide how can we get the most awareness [music] and the most engagement with our content. Also, in a fast-paced environment like social media, something can be up for even a couple hours, and it's already across the world [music] getting attention. So, that's really what my task is on a daily basis, and [music] how I go about that changes constantly. Okay, coming over here. What

13:28do you focus on? Primarily, I focus on reaching out [music] to clients that are looking for either keynote services, live events, coaching, and really trying to find [music] what different ways that we can help the different groups of people. How often are you working [music] closely with Chris? It is every day that we're here. And it's Chris is more [music] than just a boss, he's a mentor. And it's really been a life-changing experience starting

13:55to work here. He said earlier he was like at 3:00 p.m., [music] 2:30, that's when I come in there and I start telling them war stories and I start telling them old jokes. I'll come wandering in the office at about 2:30 cuz I know they've worked hard, really hard. And I'll tell I'll start telling stupid stories about drinking in Baghdad with the CIA or, you know, in Africa or something crazy like that. Tell them some stupid story about something I did. It's coming upon that time, he's about to bring a story in here. Okay, I want to come over here. Now, when you first started this

14:22job, did you have a lot of experience [music] in sales and negotiation or not yet? I did have sales background for around 9 years, [music] but this kind of just took it up to a different level of communicating. Typically, we have surface conversations. You'll go out, you'll meet people, everything is kind of surface, but this type of communicating, you can actually dig and dig deep into somebody [music] and make them think. And it's it's changed my life, you know, it's changed the way I communicate with people. It's changed the way that [music] you you get to know somebody cuz you get to know somebody on a deeper level. They say that you can be

14:55with somebody for 50 years and you really don't you really don't know everything about them. Well, you know, this job [music] makes it seem that, well, maybe we just don't have the right communication skills. We weren't bred, we weren't, you know, schooled to have the communication [music] skills needed in order to live a successful or or fruitful life. What is [music] one of the greatest things that Chris has taught you? Patience and listening. We love to talk, we love to talk about ourselves, [music] but he teaches us to, you know, sit back and be genuinely curious about the other person. And [music] to actually listen to what they are

15:29saying and engage in their world versus always engaging in yours. All right, I'm going to let you guys get back to work [music] and I'm going to go get the tour from Chris, but thank you so much. It was nice to meet you. Likewise. Thank you. When I bought this house with my girlfriend, Wendy, I bought the house, but she's made it our home. And she's

15:45put all these wonderful touches in it. She's actually a a singer-songwriter, music producer. She's in the Songwriters Hall of Fame. She discovered and developed Lady Gaga. Gave Lady Gaga her name. Stephanie Germanotta to Lady Gaga was Wendy Starland's doing. Among the things she does, she's very creative. She paints. [music] So, this is one of her paintings. That is beautiful. She designed where it's going to go on on the wall, everything around it. She's got a task rabbit guy in here, put a put a light in the in the wall that wasn't there before. And she has decorated our house so that it went from being a house

16:18to a home, and this is just one of the many touches that that Wendy's [music] put in the house. It's beautiful. Beautiful. And thank you for welcoming us into your home today, by the way. I feel like we're on MTV Cribs. We're getting the the Chris Boss MTV Cribs. [music] After spending most of the day inside, Chris took us outside to show us his morning routine. And for a 68-year-old who still travels, runs a company, trains entrepreneurs all over the world every single day, [music] it turns out it all starts with sleep, protein, coffee, sunlight, cold plunges, [music] and a sauna. Well, I'm of the generation

16:49of entrepreneurs. I want to turn 30 at least four times. Okay. How old are you now if you don't mind me asking? I'm 68. 68? No way. Okay, so you're turning 30 four times? I got to do at least two more times. I mean, you look like you're 20, [music] so. What a wonderful thing [laughter] to

17:04say. Why, yes, I resemble that remark. Thank you very much. Of course. But this is part of it. You got You got to hit the sauna. I hit it when whenever I'm home, then I'm sort of ready [music] to go after the day. Okay. And then I can imagine you have a lot of meetings, a lot of media stuff. What does your

17:18typical week look like? I probably do at least I average about one keynote a week. So, that involves travel. So, I'm probably traveling a couple of days someplace to do a keynote. While we're here, I got a core team here of people, my marketing team, and my logistics team, and my sales team that I found if I want to mentor them and grow them, they need to be here in the house with me, working out of the house. Like I do certain things, the bell goes off at 9:00. If the starting bell is at 9:00, you got to be in here before the bell goes off. And we make

17:48the trains run on time. So, from 9:00 to 3:00, we're hitting it hard. But, basically the day is over at 3:00. Chris brought us over to a rose bush in his backyard, [music] and the story behind it connected back to his mother Joyce and her passing. And the kind of advice that she would give to the [music] next generation of

18:05business owners. If your mother was here today, what would be one piece of advice that your mother would give to the next generation of business owners? Combination of work hard, stick to your integrity. And and hang in. And if you work hard and you have integrity, and you you'll laugh about stuff now and then, you're going to be all right. There's going to be up There's going to be up times, there's going to be tough times. But, hang in there. I think my mother's advice now would be hang in there. And if you had one piece of advice to the next generation, what would it be? If

18:33you're based on solid core principles, which is integrity, teamwork, what I would call a blue collar work ethic, nothing is beneath you. If it needs to be done, it needs to be done. That's kind of it. I mean, there's There's three types. There's assertives, analysts, and accommodators. I'm the natural born assertive. So, my advice to my younger self would have been just be a little nicer, stick to everything you

18:53believed in, just be a little nicer. That's if you're an assertive. If you're an analyst, very analytical, try to warm up. You're coming off as cold and distant, and you're not, but that's the way you're being perceived. And you'll get farther. And take a step. Paralysis of analysis, analysts are guilty of that. And then the accommodators, my girlfriend's an accommodator, very relationship oriented, very very hope

19:15Confrontation makes her physically sick. She hates confrontation. But just be more detail-oriented. Be a little less hope-focused and a little more detail-focused. And a lot of stuff will smooth out. Well, thank you so much for welcoming us into your home today and doing this interview. I really appreciate it. The pleasure was mine. I connect with all of the people that I interview. Do you mind if I grab your contact at the end of the

19:38day? I'd be delighted. Let's do it. And thank you for introducing us to your mother's story as well. It's very beautiful.