I made $46K in 35 days with OpenClaw 🦞

0:00I grow usually like one to two K MRR every day. I know it's insane. So today it's like 66 K. This is Nevo. He went from 20,000 to 66,000 MRR in 35 days thanks to Open Claw and Larry. He released this article with 200 followers and it got to 7 million views. When he did that, Post it skyrocketed to

0:21700 trials immediately. In this episode, Nevo shares the nine growth hacks he used to go from zero to 20,000 a month, how he tripled his revenue in 35 days, and why your SaaS needs to be agentic first to survive in 2026. All the markets are flooded because everybody can write code or everything. There's so much SaaS going out every

0:41day. You need to find your blue ocean. This is I think all this agentic stuff because there is not enough people there. So Nevo, you said funny thing about life, you don't know what's going to happen, but when something does, your first reaction can change your entire life. Do you believe in luck? Um I believe that there can be like a luck point that you like really have luck, but you really have to like build up for this, basically. So it was not like, you know, Post it, my product, um in the last months grew like crazy, like really really really fast. And it's really what triggered this is like one

1:23article that did this. But before that one article, I managed to grow Post it to 20K MRR in like 1 and 1/2 year. And it was already a product that is like very much developer oriented. Um it was open source. It has like 6 million Docker downloads. So it already had like a lot of

1:42credibility. Uh but it was like, you know, like a me tier slow SaaS growing every month, maybe 1K, maybe nothing, maybe 3K. And then this article changed a lot. Even before this article, I already started to put Post it on Open Claw specifically, so it can get like a lot of growth. So, I think I don't think there is like somebody, you know, I didn't build anything. I just did something small and luck, somebody posted something. There was

2:11like a build-up for this, basically. So, when you are lucky so many times, it's not luck anymore. I love that because that's exactly where I wanted to go. I've been following your product for a while. I saw you like brushing you that thing since 2024. And you were like going everywhere already. You did like some YouTube collaboration. You did a lot of growth hacks. So, I want to go back at the beginning, like how did Post actually start? Where did the idea come from and

2:44how did you build it? So, actually it was supposed to be a totally different product. Back in 2020, I 2022, I worked for a company called post called Novel. And it was like an open-source social open-source notification platform. I've never seen something like this because usually I I'm used to like open sources like databases, infrastructure tools, and so on. But that was like a like a SaaS product same like any other SaaS

3:14that is open-source. And it was really interesting because I worked for this company for like 2 years and just by being open-source, I managed to bring so much growth to it. We did like 30,000 stars in 1 and 1/2 year. Um, it was pretty much cool and in the second year I started to consult open-source companies on how to also do

3:37the same thing I did for Novel. And it was very niche. So, it was like nobody was talking about this. Nobody like because open-source and marketing was not like a big thing. If you look like looked in Google how to do marketing for open-source, you would not find anything. It was like a really niche consultancy. I charged like a very high ticket price between 3 to 4K per customer for two meetings

4:00per week, basically. And it was really nice and I was like, "Okay, wow, I I'm onto something. Let's create a SaaS for this also." And it was supposed to be some kind of a SaaS. It's called GitRoom. That's that's supposed to help you to create your open source launch, everything that I used to do, all my playbook, how to post on Reddit, how to post on dev.to, and and

4:22so on. But really quickly I understood like this is not going to work. It's like a too much of a niche market. Like it's good for consultancy, but you can't build SaaS on this. It's like the audience is too too too like very small. And I was like, "What I'm going to like kill it? Let's do something and let's just like convert it to a different product." It was really already type of like kind of a social media scheduling tool. It has some other features like you can see when is the GitHub trending going to change. It has some platforms like dev.to, uh medium.com, and so on

4:55that are not really social. So I just talked to my designer and started to work on on Post data. Because I'm really good at open source and marketing open source, everything I do is always open source. Like I I I develop this in open source and the main website usually I also make it open source and every other project

5:11inside is open source. Uh so back in 2024 open source was still very very strong for SaaS. I launched it on Reddit and it got I think like 250K views for my launch. Um and people are like going crazy for this because it's like a market that exists for like 20 years, this uh social media scheduling, and nobody created any open source like really good open source

5:36until I launched something. And I understood this is like a good place to create more and more like I can just push the open source more and more and more. So this is how it all started, basically. So, I already have this platform and I pushed another Reddit post, another Reddit post. And And what is nice about this Reddit post is because you it's very hard usually to do in Reddit self-promotion. Like, if you try to do it like proper self-promotion, people

6:01will say like, "This is self-promotion. It's It's not within the guideline of Reddit." They'll just remove your post, filter it, and so on. But, here when you're in open source and you publish on {slash}r{slash}selfhosted, people just waiting for to learn about your new release, about a new thing that they're going to launch. Like, self-promotion is totally valid. So, I just I kept on every like one or two times a month, each post like this on Reddit, like 250k views uh on the on the open source side. And this is how it all started. Like, push

6:28the open source as much as possible. I wanted to ask you why open source, but I feel like you answered the question already. But, I will ask you again, why open source? Um there is a few things why I would go with open source. Um and also, it's not for everybody and you really need to think if you if if it's for you and what is the business

6:50model of the open source. So, I built MeetEdgar SaaS. MeetEdgar SaaS is basically um SaaS company that is mostly point-and-click, maybe some background jobs. Um it's something that everybody can create themselves. I didn't enter this market of social of social media scheduler as the first person that do this. There is maybe thousands of people

7:16that are doing this. So, and I see there's so many competitors also on on X or LinkedIn. Like, every day I see a new social media scheduler. It's really easy to make. So, if everybody can And And today, back in 2024, vibe coding was not like crazy. So, today, in 2026, everybody can build at some kind of level what I built. So, it doesn't matter already to be open source. Like, take it, use it for your own, or vibe

7:42code your own solution. It's not a problem, like it's it's good. Then also there is like the edge of fast feedback from from a lot of developers that using your platform, finding bugs, contribute code and so on. Always really really good. You get really because the one thing that everybody wants when they launch something is to get like a surge of people coming to their product, to test it, to do different things. In reality it almost never working like this. Because you start a product, if you don't have any

8:14audience, okay, should I start with SEO? Maybe there is an influencer that you don't know. But when you just launch an open source, you get massive amount of developers coming to your Discord, trying to use your product, deploy it with Docker and so on. So the feedback is also like super super fast. Today, I don't know if it will work the same

8:32because open source got very AI sloppy. So all this channel of open source people already understand like open source is a good channel to launch in terms of feedback, marketing and so on. So so many projects launching in open source every day with AI slop. So it's not as strong, still strong. And then you also need to understand like your business model. Mine is not the best business model for most open source companies because my open source is identical to my cloud. So it's like you want to use the cloud, use the cloud. You want to use the open source, use the open source. And the open source

9:03has like 6 million Docker downloads today. And yeah, most of the people go for the open source, I guess. Which is fine for me. I think people would not use the actual cloud solution if there was there was no one no cloud option, they would just not do anything. Because this is like the type of people that are like self-hosters and stuff like that. So go

9:24ahead, enjoy this. It's great. And then depends on your business model. Mine is identical. Some people have like a mini open source project and a different cloud project and then it's more of like kind of like a lead magnet. The open source do one thing, the cloud do like a bigger thing, so you can convert. Some people have super restrictive license for the open source, so it's not really open source,

9:46it's more like a self-hosted. So, it means that you can clone it, but you can't resell it. You can't give other people to use it and so on. Really depends on the model, but I think open source is still a very good way to push your product. How do you reward the contributors? Because for example, you make money with the project that is open source. So, if tomorrow I go and help you build a

10:09project, how do I get rewarded for that? I think this is you and me. We're like business people, so it's always in our mind like why there is even contributors? Like what what's in it for them? Like why would they want to contribute code at the project that is not their project? They might not make any money from this and

10:29so on. It's a It's a question that hit me a lot of time. Because inherently I'm not an open source person. Like I use open source, I clone open source, I use NPM, I install different stuff, I use open source all the time. I was really involved in any community because I I couldn't see the what's in it for me. Like why would I

10:50need to do all this kind of stuff? But today after like a long time in Novu and Postis, I understood people just do it as a hobby. People are hardcore for open source. They like to contribute code, it's part of their fun. Be part of this community and build stuff. They are not expected to be rewarded, basically. I know it's kind of weird, but that's that's the story behind it. I

11:13mean it gives them some kind of fame. You see them as the contributors when you create a new you know, a new version, they are being tagged. They might send it to their friend, look I contribute to this big open source project and so on. So, there's like fame, but there is usually no money involved

11:31in the process. So you build this product, worked fine. Um then you added your growth hack because you say yourself that you are a growth hacker. And I want to go back to that because there is a lot of thing that worked for you. As I said, I saw like your few collabs on YouTube back in

11:49the day. You were first on Product Hunt. A lot of influencer marketing, Reddit. Instead of going in like all step-by-step, could you maybe like the ones that will still work today? Yeah, for sure. I think the thing about growth hacking usually is that it won't last forever. Like you find some loop, like some cracks in the

12:13loop, and then you can push into this. Over time more and more people learn about this thing, so it's less effective. It's always like this. Same thing as I said, Reddit, open source, now it's like less views. Um I had a few things that work really well. I think some of them still work, so

12:32Product Hunt, for example. I used to launch every 3 to 6 months. So every 3 to 6 months I would try to launch on Product Hunt, and they the Product Hunt says to me like, "Listen, you have to wait like 8 months. You can't launch yet." So just do a request to launch it anyway. Um and they always approve it. So it was good. And and Product Hunt is not like it was in 2020, 2021, where it was like really you could get like a lot of paying users from launching there. Today I think Product Hunt

13:01barely will give you any customers. The main thing about Product Hunt is like if you are on top of the list in Product Hunt, many newsletter will use you as a resource. So they can take you because you are in the first position and put you in their newsletter. So you know, like there is a when possible is not making a lot of money, there is a very popular newsletter is called The Rundown AI. Um and it's very expensive to list like they take a lot of money just to put you inside a newsletter. But because I was in Product Hunt, they put me in the newsletter and

13:28I saw like 200 people immediately coming to my website, which was crazy. It was not from Product Hunt itself. So, this is why I keep launching on Product Hunt. Now, how I win Product Hunt so many times? This is really interesting. I understood already long time ago that people are very um let's say selfish. Like like they see like you post something on X or LinkedIn, they see that you are um

13:55you know, you want help on Product Hunt. If there is no benefit for them to do this, like to vote for you, they probably won't vote for you. Um it's very hard. I haven't seen a lot of people just like, you know, launching on different platform getting like tons of upvotes. And not only that, Product Hunt even become became more aggressive because of because of fake upvotes that if you create a new user on Product Hunt to upvote, it's not even capturing this. Like you need to actually have like some karma, be active before, write

14:26some comments, and so on. So, I understand the only way for me to actually win Product Hunt is by actually reaching out to people uh privately, asking them to help me with a launch, and also incentivize them in a way that it's okay with Product Hunt. So, I would ask somebody if they can help me with the launch. So, this is the take like I'm taking from you. Now, I have to give back. If not, like would you do

14:55something? And I would say, "In return, I can help you with anything you need. If you want, I can If you have some If you need some customers that you want me to connect you inside of Post SaaS, let's do it. If you have uh I can list you in the newsletter. Um I can give you a very big discount for my product and so on. Uh go and and and check it. Don't give me like upvote if

15:18you don't like the product, basically. Whatever you decide. And a lot of people comply with it. Like they want to do this. And the thing is like the more people that you can reach, the the more upvotes that you can get. And I try to find some ways to reach a lot of people. Not just like a few. Because how many can you reach if you Okay, WhatsApp a few, LinkedIn a few,

15:43but you need like a lot of upvotes. And this is where I do like I call it like the growth gray area of marketing. I have a few things. Uh I run LinkedIn automations. So you know, it's like sending it to the people that are on my LinkedIn list. I do uh Slack automation, which is pretty crazy. So you can join like a Slack group and then message the people inside the Slack group. Slack because it's like for personal uh it's it's more for like a work thing. It's not meant for communities. They have almost no restrictions for anything you want to

16:18do. You can send a message in Slack. Like every Saturday gang. Uh so I send a lot of these. Then I do X. And I also might book book a few influencers, basically. So yeah, it's it's a lot of planning to do all this. I don't know uh if I do more Product Hunt launches now that post is like more popular, but it definitely help and it it definitely work. And this is like uh I think the main thing in order to

16:45get these like little growth points. Like if you you have to think a little bit differently cuz what everybody is doing. If you do what everybody is doing, most likely it will not work for you. Basically. Also with Boy Story. Every successful founder I know have one thing in common. They nailed distribution. They show up on Google, Reddit, or social media. And when you ask ChatGPT what's the best

17:07tool for X, they are also showing up. But most founders, they spend all day building features, fixing bugs, or talking to customers. And sometimes they ship more features. But at the end of the day the competitor with the worst product get all the customers. That's frustrating because we all know that your product deserve the spotlight more than them. And I know you probably don't have the time to write 30 blog posts a month, post on social media, or reply on Reddit threads. You have to build a good product after all. So nothing gets done and this competitor is still the one getting all the customers. That's why we

17:38built Distribute. You just have to create an account, add your website, and we take care of the distribution for you. Content, backlinks, Reddit, social media, we push your product everywhere. You can finally focus on building the best product while we get you customers on autopilot. You can click on the link in the description to get your free trial. And the next 20 founders who join

17:57will get 90% off on the first month. Now, back to the episode. So, you basically grew this product from zero to 20k by yourself. Uh with all the contributors and with all the growth hack um that you did. What was like maybe the key lesson for you to actually build a product from scratch to 20k a month? People if people want to build Meteor SaaS they should start as soon as possible because I think the more time passes it becomes harder. It becomes much much much harder because then like Meteor which is very easy to create with a vibe coding the market is being flooded, like crazy

18:41flooded. And you need to really really really be good if you're planning to like every year that you wait it's going to become much much much harder. I don't know if I started post this in 2025, 2026 I could do the same. Maybe. I don't know. But it's really hard. Um and the thing that I did in order to grow the product and I think this is the the main thing that everybody should do when they do something like I did with Meteor SaaS

19:11is really try to stick on trends. When you can see there is like a trend happening, always check if you can you know, play with this trend. And I did it all the time even until 20K. So, the first trend before everything else was N8N. So, 2025 N8N was really booming with N8N uh templates and so on. And I've seen like this is like a very good way for me to add post this inside if there is like an N8N template because somebody can create for example like a viral post on how to create a with VO3 some video and schedule it to TikTok

19:51before OpenClaw. And they can put me as the last node just to schedule it to social media. Then they can sell the entire template to a person. That person take the template and see ah okay, in order to run this I need this service, this service, and this service. So, they they just have to because they already know

20:07what they're going to get. And also for me specifically, I knew that if people do automation and not do manual scheduling like go and schedule stuff one after another, it's going to decrease my churn because everything is automated. So, people don't need to all the all the time do something. So, they can just like, you know, I have some people running N8N automation. Every 15 minutes it's putting like a a new post

20:32for Post This. And I saw this trend and I was like, okay, what's a trend? What can I do? And then I was like, okay, where can I find the people that are doing N8N automation? And I understood like, okay, school.com is really strong with N8N groups. There's like tons of N8N groups. So, I hired somebody from Upwork, pretty cheap, not something expensive, to go into all these N8N group and find me the email of the founder and the um and the the the name of of group and

21:06so on. So, they did that, and I got like a list of tons of emails and and founders, and I started like an N A 10 automation asking founders to add me to their template. And in return, I can again help them with the newsletter, give them a free Post is account, like a lifetime deal for Post is, um

21:24connect them, and so on. And the months that I did that on the first trend, I jumped from 6K to 12K. It's very similar to what happened with Open Clou. I found a trend, and then I climb on this. So, it was not as big as Open Clou, and Post is was not as mature, but

21:41still, it like it worked. And then after a while, again, another trend, MCP. MCP was booming everywhere. Everybody talked about MCP. There was so many AI companies, like Compozio, um pushing MCP everywhere and stuff. I just go and created an MCP for Post is, and I did a Product Hunt launch on this MCP, and I also started to push it on every possible library online that I can put

22:07this MCP. And again, that increased another three, 4K MR. So, I always try the the trends, and this is what I did until like 20K. Of course, there's like a few more things that helped me on the way. For example, I was on Starter Story that kicked me again with like 3K dollar MR. Um I think I had a collaboration with a few more creators over time. Not

22:30something crazy on TikTok, and so on. Pushed me here and there. But all this like trends, that's like the main main main thing, I think. I love that because it's John what um Yacine on my last podcast, uh the founder of Chat Base said. Like basically, you have to partner with some of a bigger I um entity in a community, and for you, like N A 10, MCP, and uh Open Clou was kind of a new community that was starting, and you were just like putting your brand in the

23:00middle of that. And that helps you grow each day. Yeah, exactly. Like I had instead of being the hype So I know some people that they they build like an open core wrapper for example or like an MCP to create. I don't want to be the hype because I know that hype they come and go. They might change or for example open core still very popular. But I think it is a little bit not as it was at start because there also like new players coming in like cloud co-work, uh perplexity computers like more

23:31players coming in. So I don't do open core specific, I do a genetic. So it it can work with all the other ones basically. I'm excited to talk about that in a few minutes, but first I just want to ask you a question. We talked about all your success with growth hack. How do you deal with failing and do you move fast? Like how do you actually iterate, try new thing? Like what is

23:58your mindset about that? Um it's very hard to declare a failure basically because what is what is a failure even? It's like I launched something and didn't get more users or more money? It didn't like if you look at the for since I I launched post this until I got to 20k MRR except for the few first months that was the product was shitty. I just started out. Um there were always always a growth. Like every month I grew in MRR. It was never going down. So yeah, some of the moves that I've I've made really grew it a lot and some just like didn't do anything

24:41basically. Um so I didn't care. I just like kept doing everything that I see. I think the main thing for me um unlike other people is that I love marketing more than actually developing the product. So I'm all day trying to see like what is the next thing that that I can actually do um to push this. Um and also I think when you are like a founder for such a long time, so I had previous startups before that I sold also, your hunches becoming like better in what you should do and what you should not do. Um you can appreciate like you can understand more what is the target

25:15audience here, what is their psychological behavior, and so on. Like for example, I've never tried to do anything um that will try to convert developers, let's say of the open source. I never created like a product to to make open source people pay. Maybe if you ask me like 5 7 years ago, I would do it because I would think oh everybody can pay. But now I'd say

25:38okay, there is this type of audience. This is the type of audience that will never pay me money. They just want to use the open source. Okay, let's not touch them. Just give them more tools. Let's So you get like better hunches I think in previous products I had a lot of bad hunches and a lot of bad stuff that I've done that didn't move the

25:54needle at all basically. I think it's uh important what you say as well that you start to like see like who are your customer. For you like now you have a really a specific ICP like ideal customer for Postacie. You say that you're targeting tech founder or like people in the tech mainly. You will not target brick and

26:16mortar business. How do you feel about that like because a lot of people struggle to make that big jump, you know, like to target only one person. What would you say to a person who hesitate? I can't say I'm targeting only one person. I think I have a few like multiple audiences that are using Postacie. Um and actually a lot of the audiences that I wanted at first for Postacie, I didn't use. That like it's not who came in the end. Like I thought I wanted for Postacie to come like so so a lot of marketing agencies will come to Postacie. Why? Because you know, a

26:51single user they buy like the $29 per month package, but agencies, they manage to other people, their accounts. So, they have to scale in the pricing, plus because they're managing multiple accounts with multiple people, probably they need they will have a lower churn because, you know, they they they have to use social media scheduling tools. It's not something that they like maybe. It

27:14didn't happen in the end. Most of the people that came are like more tech people. And today, I I think it's like 90% of the people that come are really people that you know at least how to use the API, Open Claw, and so on. And I think it's good because I There is It's a market that exists for like 20

27:34years. It has like really big competitors like Buffer that's making $2 million a month. And you have Hootsuite. I think they're confronting the market. They're making tons of millions every year. Really hard to compete with them and they're on the exact same audience. It's really nice if you can put yourself in like this blue ocean of people that they are not touching, basically. Buffer

28:01still don't have like a good API even. They're just now working on a on a new API. So, if you can really put yourself in a different audience, that night, it was not my plan at first. Now that I feel like it fits you because I saw your last video about Open Claw and Post is and the style of this video, I love it. And that's like you target tech people. You know, like there is no normies who would watch this video and be like, "Oh, I understand what he means." So, I think, you know, when you find an audience or like your customers that fits you as well, it's

28:35more fun for you to do the marketing and everything, right? Oh, 100%. 100% I like to work with technical people because they also requires there's support. You know, they they know like ah wait you know, there's like a ticket and they send me I have a bug here. Here is the screenshot I got 500 error. I I saw it in the network. Here here is the

28:57screenshot and you know, they pay that. You will not see this with like normal audiences. No. Let's talk about Open Claw. You skyrocketed Post is from around 20k to I think now like above 60 like 63 67k MRR. Ah today because I grew I grow usually like 1 to 2k MRR every day. I know it's

29:23insane. So today it's like 66k. MRR 80. First congrats. So going I want to hear the story because I had Oliver Henry. If you didn't watch the podcast yet, you can watch it on my channel. Oliver Henry is the guy you met at the good time and together you basically like pushed Post is to where it is. Can you just

29:49like bring us back to it happen? Let me just before Oliver started. I already saw Open Claw even before Oliver and I already have a skill for Post is or I talked to Oliver and I already started to market it for Open Claw. I had already this section on my website and so on. So it was already ready for Let's say first we try Open Claw but

30:14it's all was already ready for agents. Then I saw this guy Oliver on X. So what I do, I don't like to use social media listening tool because I have like three channels. So I just you know, here and there I just go to X write Post is on the search and just like look for the latest post. So I saw this guy Oliver something like 200 followers he had. Yeah, he created that he has a very very good storyteller. Created this Open Claw

30:40machine name Larry. And it was really cool. Like he was um really writing how Larry helps him and also automating his TikTok in order to get like a lot of views. And I was like he said a few times he mentioned also Post-it like he's using Post-its. So I was like, oh cool. This is cool that he's actually doing this with Post-its. 200 followers I was like, you know, I have like in general not only Oliver I have a lot of UGC usually people like you know even in the open source just mentioned Post-its

31:11on social. So it was pretty cool. And he said that he's going to write an article about Post-its. No not about about sorry. He's going to write an article about open claw he's bought Larry and how he grows his TikTok account. And I was in my mind, okay. Oliver has like 200 followers. He's going to write an article probably will get to like 10k views. If he mentioned Post-its a few time maybe I'll get like one two three subscription that will be like pretty cool. Like I I didn't think it will be

31:41something so big. He wrote an article and the article Post-its were mentioned like nine times. And I never talked to him by the way until after this article never in my life like he's a nice guy but nice guy but I I never ever talked to him. And then he released this article with 200 followers and it got to 7 million views. It's I don't know like this is one of the biggest growth hacks that I discovered

32:06later. So this was really like the beginning of the agentic Post-its. When he did that Post-its skyrocket to 700 trials immediate. Like usually I have like around almost 100 per month. But this was like 700 trials. It was insane. And then I start talk to him about this article and so on. So it started to bring a lot of revenue

32:31to Post-its. And then he did another article the week after that got like 1 and 1/2 million views. But, it was giving a lot more subscriptions to Post this because he didn't like just like write an algorithm in the article what to do step-by-step. He created a skill in this article. And this is a lot stronger because it's really reminds me of the N8N template. A person go, install the skill, up, you need to use Post this. Okay, they go

32:55and they just like install Post this. So, it was like a lot more converting. It was crazy. And, you know, I started to get like I've never seen like this kind of growth. More and more people are using it. And and then it was like, "Okay, but what can he do next?" Like, I I I need more. Okay, let's the let's let's have like this whole whole thing and and increase

33:17it more. It's really hard to tell exactly what kept on what kept going. So, he did this 700 and and since then the trials went down like because it's like 700 trials per week. But, now even after all these articles and he in this article also still converting because it's like popular articles. I'm still getting like I have like a constant uh 400 trials per week, which

33:41is insane for me. What I did is that I understood that X are changing and they want people to read long content form. And and and it's it's it didn't start only with articles. Like before Twitter was like a few character then they increased this, then they have like long tweets, and now they have articles. And they know that people like they spend, they

34:06read articles. This is something that people uh they want people to stay more in the platform. So, and then they had I think of like two or three months ago this competition on X about articles. Who gets the most amount of views? Some crypto guy won, but with like 48 millions on on an

34:23article. So, I understood there's something with article is little bit different. It's not um Um, not like uh all the other stuff. So, I also tried it. And I wrote uh I made an article about Open Clo also. Also with 200 followers. And it also got to half a million views. It's insane for me. I like uh it's it reminds me of Reddit just like a lot stronger because the problem with Reddit mostly is that I when I put a post on Reddit, it's targeted at at technical people. So, technical people is really good for branding. People seeing no post is and so on. People maybe you

35:03know, use the open source, but it's not a like a converting channel. Like it's not like a direct marketing channel where people see the post and go and buy post is. Really hard on Reddit to do something like this, but X is different. There's many buyers, many many many buyers. So, this article also brought me also a lot of followers. I don't know if followers means that much anymore. Like I think I would prefer to stay on 200 because I saw that when I'm on 200, the articles like exploding a lot more than

35:31when I'm on 2,000. And I also saw another thing. And I think this is the main shift X is doing. Um, usually what what will happen is that you have certain amount of followers, you post something, a percentage of them will see the post that you posted. And then it will expand more and more and more depends how much of virality

35:54is. Now, I feel what they are doing is that they're trying to do more of I don't go I'm not going to show to your follower in second degree and stuff. I'm going to show what you posted, the article that you posted to the audience that are looking for this kind of specific content. Why I I think like that? Because after I I read Oliver article and I read my article, I saw that every time I open my phone and I look at the main feed, I see a lot of Open Clo articles all the time. More and more Open open core articles. It's like my entire field was open core

36:30articles. So, I said, "Okay, this is interesting." I also stopped again, people with 200 followers and a lot of um views on their articles. I was like, "Okay, I have a lot of money also now cuz I can invest back after all this growth. Let's contact people. Let's see if I can contact people to write articles for me,

36:49like make like influencer content post. This is what I did. I contacted so many people, people with like 200 follower, 300 followers. And started to say, like, "Would you write an article about Post it?" Yeah, for sure. I'm al- already using Many of them were like, "I was already using the tool, so great. Let's let's do it." So, a lot of people wrote an

37:08article also. Um and I tried to scale it as much as I can. And then I kind of stopped my now to find new articles and still tries remaining on like 400. I still don't know why. I need to do better tracking, but some people come to me like Leon say, "Listen, like Claude Claude or Codex uh like said use Post it." Basically. So, maybe it's also like some kind of like LLM

37:36starting to recommend the tool also. So, it was really crazy for me because I didn't change much like I didn't change the product to make it open core ready. I just did some different marketing, changed the marketing a little bit, and added the CLI. That was the main thing. Um I saw Agent Browser, which was like wow, I really like this thing with that you can play with

37:59Playwright from the CLI. Let's make a CLI for Post it because really it will use less context. Um it will have less context raw. It can iterate a lot faster, but that's it. And I even that was like 2 hours of video. Can you Can we just like deep dive into that because for someone was a SaaS now even like whatever like what did you do to

38:21actually get Open Claw friendly? Um First, when when Open Claw um when I make the first skill for Open Claw, it was so easy. I have like my public docs. I just like took all these like main endpoints from the API reference, create one MD file, created a skill. That's it. It was Open Claw friendly already. Um but then, I was like, but what can I

38:50do to really stand out from the market? Not all Not only Open Claw friendly, but in general, like being any any uh agentic tool friendly. And I understood it it's the CLI because a few things. First of all, there there was like this notion lately uh MCP is dead. People are talking about this. I don't know if it's really dead, but I totally understand where this frustration coming from cuz I have also MCP for Postie. It's slow. It has a very huge like it's sending so much context every time. It's like a huge context

39:24window. Um it sometimes disconnects and so on. I really like I've seen like compared to the like when you write just like a skill, a skill it's much faster. And I was like, okay, but why when I saw this agent browser, they made a CLI. They could just like write like play write commands in like very big doc. They're still like because

39:49it's saving so much context. When you have a CLI instead of writing like a full HTTP request in a very big JSON uh payload, you can have like one line, like uh Postie create post, minus M is the message, minus I is the ID, and that's it. Like super super small. And then the LLM can also um the the actual LLM can also really iterate fast. Even if it's failing, it will try some CLI, it doesn't work, try another CLI. It's so easy compared to Imagine if it's failing, it will again need to write all this huge JSON payload, and again, and again, and every time when

40:28you send a message to ChatGPT or something, you send all the context that you have from the previous request. So, it's becoming like really big. And yeah, if you just make it like with a CLI, it works much, much, much faster. And I think I was the one of the first people to actually understand that. So, I was the first one who introduced like CLI for for Open for for for just like using

40:53agentic posties. So, basically, you just need a skill and CLI and API. Yeah, and all all you need to do For me, it was easy. If you have a docs already created for you, I just like took cloud code, um you know, run dangerously. Here is the Here is the docs. Just make a CLI for

41:14me. It's like like this, basically. And can you maybe explain on the user side what is like the the point? Like because I have Open Cloud. I install the skill. I take subscription to posties just to get the API. And then, what do I do? I just start with Open Cloud, and I just say like, "Yeah, can you post uh content from this source?" Like, "How

41:37does it work exactly?" So, I think this is actually why Open Cloud is so is so good. Because you can hook it to anything you want. So, you can really yourself go and say do a research yourself, go do something yourself. But, you can also hook it to many services to actually get the content, or you can get the template that creates the content for you. Like, Oliver created Larry, his skill. The skill is not like how to use posties. It's The skill goes and first generate some pictures with Open AI, and do some market research, generates uh some pictures with OpenAI, then put the

42:15subtitles on top. And then, just like schedule this to post this. But post this is just like for the scheduling, just to add it to the app in the end. You can have before that anything you want. So, you can do it yourself. Like write what you want. Uh I want to create a post for Post this about uh importance of social media. Okay, no problem. It just do it for you, run the CLI command for you in the background, and schedule

42:38this for you. Or you can use other services. And I've seen so many people now create Maybe this is also part of the growth for Post this. So, for example, I've seen this guy uh I think his company called Vingula, something like this. And he created a clipping service. So, you can give a YouTube video, it will split it to many good parts, uh and then just like send it to Post

43:02this to schedule those uh clips. Um I've seen another company actually, they are sponsors of Post this. Uh the open source, it's called uh V- Viurlo, something like this. And they know how to find to find trending content on social media and the content of this uh of this thing. So, you can ask find me from this service uh trending post about uh

43:27fitness. Okay, it will give you and then okay, now schedule like create post inside of Post this and schedule this. Uh And so, Post this is basically a piece of the puzzle of workflow. Exactly like it was on NA10. But now it's like the process of open cloud. So, basically now Post this doesn't even need a landing

43:48page anymore or a dashboard. If you think about it, if I pay once for the API, then I don't need your dashboard anymore. I don't even need an interface. Like in reality, it's true. Um but in real life, you might want to to visit the dashboard. So, you will not use the dashboard to create stuff, but you want might want to look at your calendar. So, for example, you know, like you said to OpenClaw, "Go around the week and schedule different posts for me." But, you know, how it's going to look, what hours, and so on, it's always easier to understand like visually when you can actually see

44:29this. So, I think this is uh people are still checking all the time the calendar to see different stuff. Um I don't know I I have a feeling there is going to be a next iteration of OpenClaw, and I don't know if specifically it will come from OpenClaw or Cloud Co-worker and stuff, that uh the the chat, like Telegram, whatever, will also deliver you with UI, basically. So, you'll get a UI inside your your app, basically. Uh maybe the calendar will

45:00already be there or something like that. Uh and then you close the loop. You don't need to go to the Postate app anymore. Interesting. I think you collaborate with um Oliver to actually, you know, iterate and make the app like better for the skill, right? Like to actually make it good for OpenClaw, or did you just like talk to him and didn't collaborate at

45:24all? Um I think he asked me only for one thing that I didn't have in Postate is to get the analytics. Um so, he asked me for some endpoints, but he created uh the whole thing himself, basically. He just wanted to because the the nice thing about his skill, it's supposed to learn from previous posts. So, it will like post for you, and then after a while check the views and understand, "Ah, this post was better than this post. Let's go into this format." And then iterate and so on

45:54and keep on posting uh the right format. But, except for that, I think he's pretty technical person. Uh he's also using Cloud Code. Um he he managed to figure it out I I don't Honestly, I don't even know if people are doing stuff with Post it today without like using CloudCode or something. So, you know, it's really helps with this barrier, you know, of being technical with a lot of this

46:18stuff. Yeah, yeah, 100%. I mean, like I'm this kind of person, you know, I'm not a dev. I have some technical background because I built some WordPress and built some SaaS like myself, but I'm not a dev. But now like with Open Crow and I see it me or my girlfriend or people around me, we

46:36just have access to this kind of thing. So, you don't even need that anymore. It's good and bad, you know. It's good because everybody can do it. It's bad because everybody can do it. So, it's good. Yeah, you can do it, but then it's like every when everybody can do everything, then nobody's making

46:53money. Basically, it's much harder to make money. I'm really conflicted about this era, On the one hand, you know, I'm programming much faster. I don't remember the last time I wrote code, but on the other hand, everybody's doing this. Yeah. I think it's an arbitrary time. We have to take money as fast as possible before it totally change and switch to the new era

47:16and we don't really know what it is yet. It's interesting, but it's also scary. I'll tell you what I think about this new era, at least that's coming now. For me to your SaaS, because we're like indie hackers, let's say we're all indie hackers and we don't build like the the next hosting infrastructure or we don't build a payment provider. We're building like

47:37simple stuff with point and click. Um, and and what is going to happen in this area is that people always will think should I use this or should I vibe code this? And where is like like the the point where it's actually matters? If I create Post it and I have so many people that are paying $29 per month, Vibe coding the whole thing, taking a server for yourself, um approving all

48:09the providers. Okay, you might save $10 per month. Okay, like you you won this meal this month. You have another extra meal that you can eat every day. Great. Um really not worth the Vibe coding everything. But what if you're an enterprise company and then you have tons of employee and your monthly billing is tens of thousands of dollars because you have a

48:34lot of employees inside. Here you will start to think twice, can I Vibe code this solution? Like what what's going and and and I think this is like a prediction I seen like in an article that was very viral on Hacker News that people are starting to negotiate more on deals in the future, uh even if they use like Salesforce or whatever, because they're thinking like maybe we should just like Vibe code something

48:57ourselves. And we are going to enter this market and I'm really happy that I'm not like enterprise first. Uh it's really I think enterprise first with mid-tier SaaS is going to be very hard in the future. It makes sense because like the founder of Nvidia just shared this uh new I guess era like agent ticket as a service and they built Nemo Cloud which is the safest way to use Open Cloud for enterprise. So basically like they will be enterprise and customer and they will not even need the software in the middle because as you say, company like HubSpot, they are taking so much money to enterprise

49:36every single month. Like that's something that they have to pay and now if they can Vibe code or like build it themselves and tailor it to their own company, they will probably lose a lot of money. And and I think like you know, HubSpot, monday.com, all these companies, they already have a lot of feature, like you won't be able to wipe code everything that it's for sure. It's like When you wipe code, they wipe code. So, they also have developers and they also improve the product every time you improve the product. But, maybe companies don't need everything that they have. They can have a few stuff

50:07that they really need inside. So, I think this is um, like this meteor SaaS is going to be hard and I think a lot of these companies like HubSpot and stuff, their main core power is that they understand this also. I think they will do different agentic stuff in the future. And also, HubSpot is like buying a lot of companies. So, they're like trying different angles, I think, for the thing

50:30that they are doing, agentic and so on. There's going to be a problem here for all those companies. That they can't distinguish them. You said, "More money, more problems." And when the money is really fast, you get so many problems. How did you manage viral entity? And how did you actually, yeah. I don't like neglect stuff. I'm telling

50:53you. Honestly, I'm really All my life I worked in some companies and in each company I was like an executioner. So, what is an executioner's do in in terms of marketing, growth hacking? They do a lot of this stuff themselves. They take small freelancers to do different small stuff and so on. And you know, and and and they get results for this. But, they usually don't like

51:15scale a very big team. And, you know, I I like the fact that I can be an indie hacker that do everything by himself. And I honestly think that you can still do a lot of stuff by yourself if you have the time to create tools for all the thing that um, that you have problems in. For example, customer support and so on. You really

51:37can save and not hire a lot. But, it is becoming harder when you grow very fast. So, you know, when I grow 20k, I grew to 20K. It was slow growth. I would get four, five tickets for support per week maybe. And they're like not all of them together. So, I would just like go to the ticket, check what

51:58is the problem, and solve it. But when you're really becoming super viral, no, it's it's in a a whole different magnitude of the amount of support tickets that you have. It's like like 10, 20 per day. It's It's It's insane. And if you missed one day because you had to do some stuff, then you have also the previous one from the

52:17previous day. And it's really uh I don't know how to explain this, but I I understood that being overwhelmed is the worst thing for a founder. Like when I'm overwhelmed, I just can't operate. So, for example, if I open my email and there's like 100 emails that I didn't read that I need to do something, I'm like, "Okay, I will not do it now." Same with support. And then 40 tickets? Okay, maybe I I have to find a way, you know, to optimize

52:45this. And this is really something really hard with fast growth. So, I want to hire um like a customer support engineer. The problem is I don't know how. Do you feel like it's really really hard to do hiring today? So, you know, I I don't I I'm not a funded company. I'm I can't pay the salaries of uh you know, like like a known like a funded company. I will not pay between 10 to 20K per month

53:14to somebody. Ah, I I wish. Well, like when I grow more, I would definitely do this. So, I'm usually with the like 3 to 5K per month my budget right now to hire. And it's also fully remote. So, everybody's basically applying, especially from like uh you know, more developed countries. And how? Like everybody use Cloud Code.

53:36We're trying to put a filter. I don't know, like it's really hard to understand if it's worth going to an interview with this kind of person because, you know, they just like what are you going to ask? What are you going to do? I think it's really hard to to do the hiring. So, because I grew so fast, then I need to hire so fast, like super stressful. Have to find a solution very

53:59fast. Um so, it can be everywhere. It can be emails, it can be people that want like a refund. It can you have to create like new processes that you usually did did it yourself. Can't you automate that? You can. You can build automation. I don't want to create an open claw automation though. Uh even though it's like sexy and stuff, I think it um it will be too expensive to start run open claw on everything. I prefer something more automated. So, for example, this is a like one of the

54:29automation that I want to do now. Uh I want, for example, there is like a new support ticket coming in. So, 99% of the support ticket like okay, 60% of the support ticket that comes in, I think it's mostly actually bugs, basically. So, if it was just like to help like you need to do like this, perfect. So, I want like a new ticket comes coming I use some agentic thing like maybe like Claude SDK or Codex to scan the code

54:59base and to give an answer. Then if there is no answer, like it is a like a bug, it opens a PR on GitHub and then maybe Claude code also like process this PR on GitHub. If not, it just give the answer what need to fix and so on. So, yeah, you can do this. Just need to develop it. You need to find time. I'm doing other stuff also. I'm working now

55:22on the Post this mobile app. Yeah, it's just a know where to put your time. Yeah, I think in this era we need a 48 hours day. I can't deal with 24 hours anymore. It's not enough. And also I think it's like a lot of focus, you know, like I have a lot of free time during the day. I'm playing with my daughter, I do a lot a lot of different things. But I don't have a lot of free uh mind shift context that I can do so fast. Like I can't like start a

55:50new SaaS some suddenly right now. It's I can't. Like my mind is bothered with Okay, there is the mobile, I need to do the hiring, I need to do the support. Plus, let's see what can I can do for marketing. Really hard. Like you have like all these mind shifts I think this is the thing that usually make uh founder burn out. They do too

56:10many things at the same time. And on top of that, you just started to create content yourself. You say you did article and you also started Tik Tok. How do you deal with that and do you have already results from that? No, I I did a few Actually, I did even before Open Claw, I did a few videos

56:27with um Tik Tok. Um no, I I don't have time for this, honestly. I did like six videos. Each one of the video got like 200 views on Tik Tok and one one video got 30k views. So, already back in the day I understood there is this something also with Tik Tok here. But I I I just it's impossible. There is too much stuff

56:51to do. Um and I don't want to because you Nobody is like Post and Oliver's skill, it's really nice. But you can schedule like you can automate stuff and post stuff to Tik Tok. But if you actually listen to Oliver, what he said, it's not like his first video that he posted became viral. He had to iterate with his skill and every time find Okay, this working, this not working. It takes

57:18time. It's not like that. Basically. How do you prioritize your tasks? Um I'm a very messy person. I don't have huge pri- I wish I could. I think um I haven't developed something super significant in Post this for a very long time. Because I in my state of mind is something that I learned from my previous startup. Every time you create something new this something new gives you bugs and

57:54can cause like a very high churn. So, what you want to do is all the time fix and perfect what you currently have before you moving to like new features. Um the worst thing is that you can have like a new feature in the dashboard that breaks and churning customer uh because of this. So, I'm I'm focusing most of the time every day to fix those bugs. And there is like, you know, Post this is the biggest social media scheduling tool in terms of

58:20channels. There's like 30 channels. There is so many bugs inside. Like I try to capture all of them. I have some mechanism to catch errors and stuff. But it's very hard. Also, other companies they sometimes change their APIs and so on. So, I'm really focusing on fixing bugs. It's my main priority for every day with

58:40everything that I do. Um and then the second one is marketing. I invest most of the time of my day to understand to to, you know, understand what is the next thing to do. I think just like doom scrolling X all day helps you to understand all the things that are coming and how you

59:05should change whatever you do and so on. What is the next big thing, you know? They already introduced Claude dispatch um just like a day or two and I already have person writing an article about this. Like it's really important like to be in the peak of all this kind of stuff. And then um trying right now I'm in this position

59:28that I have a lot of money. Um, and I'm trying to understand how I can use this money. It's not so easy. So, I talked for example with Nico, maybe you know him. He is like the master of the ads. So, he's building now He's building now a CLI for Facebook. So, we are working closely because I want also to start to run ads for

59:50Postie. So, this is also marketing, but I don't want to use the the Facebook UI. I want to do it with Open Cloud. Not because I'm like, "Oh, Open Cloud." It's just because it's it's so buggy and slow to use the Facebook ads platform. Like, I want to do fast. I want to focus on creatives, push it, and

1:00:06do it, and try to scale our marketing. So, I think my main priorities now, what I'm trying to do every day is bugs, find customer support because the customer support is so bad right now. Everybody will tell you it's like the worst. Find a way to improve the customer support or hire somebody or both. Um, focus more on marketing and the next thing, and scale the marketing. I've never scaled marketing that much. Like, I have really a lot of budget now. I'm trying to see what will give me the most amount of uh like, I put a dollar and get three. I don't want to do the opposite. Put five

1:00:39and one. Yeah. Yeah. And you said that we are entering the personal chat assistant era, and it's going to grow a lot. Can you just explain me why and what it is? Yeah. Um, I mean, I'm I'm just saying this based on data, not not because I'm like trying to you know, push Postie. When I when Open Cloud started,

1:01:05for me it was very much like cloud code. I didn't understand like, what's so special about Open Cloud? It's basically can be a cloud code that is connected like cloud can also connect to all your services. Uh, plus they added this um this options to have cron jobs. So, you can repeat task, which is the cloud

1:01:26co-work that they made later. So, for me it was a trend. Didn't really understand what you can do with it and so on. Like it was like a nice I thought like it would like so many people said this is a trend. It's going to die. It didn't die. It kept on. Like if you go to the X trending feed, you all the time see on the side Open Claw new version or people talking about Open Claw. It's always in the trending section something about Open

1:01:52Claw. So, and then now Nvidia also understood this did did this Nemo Claw. We we can see some very big shift into this whole agentic stuff uh with personal chats. And it's it's not it's not ending. They're they're keeping pushing more and more. So, I I think this is going there and it's not going to be a trend. Um it's not specifically will be a chat maybe, but it will be like a platform with agentic stuff that connected to all the other platforms. It It's going to be something like this and over time they will also improve it as we said like it will not be only text. It will generate

1:02:30UI for you back um and so on. The day the data of post is how much it grows every day keep on getting trials like nonstop. And and and and the amount of users I see with article and people, I don't think this thing is going to die anytime soon. I think this is going to be more into this direction. Um

1:02:53we'll see. We we we can't know. And the last question for you, who should actually go all in into agentic as a service? Everybody that is building Meteor SaaS. So, I think in every every time you build a new SaaS. Um a lot of people they build new SaaS because they have like some really good

1:03:19idea. Uh, but it's many time is really good to build a SaaS when you know that you also going to have a very good execution. Basically, not just an idea. Like you can actually execute this idea. You say, "Okay, if I do this, maybe I write the X article, do this TikTok video or something. Okay, I can get you people

1:03:36paying and so on." So, all the markets are flooded because everybody can wipe code or everything. So, everything is like is is being like there's so much SaaS going out every day. You need to find your blue ocean. You need to find something that other people are not doing. This is I think all this agentic stuff because when you go there, there is not enough people. They're actually I'm not just saying this. I have I don't know if you've seen I have

1:04:04another company that I'm working with. They have a technical co-founder there. It's called Agent Media to generate UGC. We do it with a special focus for a CLI to be agentic, only agentic. Like you hook it with Open Claw. Plus, you put it with Postly, so it will generate the UGC and schedule this Postly. There is tons of other UGC generators, same as I have in Postly, but I'm trying

1:04:27to go into this blue ocean. So, if not every startup can. Like some startup I think they are forcing themselves to be agentic where there is I don't really understand the use case. So, for example, and maybe I'm totally wrong. Like call.com hook themselves into Open Claw right now. They did a product hunt launch and

1:04:48so on. But what is I'm not sure I kind of understand the use case behind this. Like what do you use the Open with? Maybe better marketing education. We'll see. So, I think really you need to find like if you have a really use a good use case and use really good use cases is usually are like um I think active things that can happen. It can be generate an article with SEO. So, super agentic just to generate like SEO content. Actually, I did something interesting with SEO that I think you can't do this without Open Claw is that I installed agent browser and I gave

1:05:30agent browser um ability to access my dashboard in Post it. So, it's generate screenshot of the dashboard with the article that is generating with the SEO hooked up also to a Ahref and Semrush to understand what to build and Google uh console. So, really SEO can be really good also. All this social media generating things, the people also, you know, there's so many companies that are not like a social media scheduler to scheduling tool, but just like a like uh real dot farm and stuff that is just like creating the TikTok video for you and scheduling for you specifically. All

1:06:08those like are going to work amazingly. Marketing specifically is going to work amazingly with the with all these things. And um I think also like all these CRM, CMSs, great with Open Claw to add information fast, you know. Sometimes I use Notion. Uh I used it with my the previous company I work with Novu and you know, so many pages of Notion. Where are you going to find whatever what you want and so on. I know that if you use Open Claw, it will find exactly where to add the content or where to write or where to

1:06:41read the content. Um so, all these CMSs um and so on. Code builders also like if somebody wrote like another base 44 or something also can work amazingly, I think. Um if you use it with Open Claw if it can hook up to other services. In general, everything that can be hooked up with an external service will work really really great, um I think, cuz you can get like more information from more places to build

1:07:12your stuff. You should, um when you build a new if if somebody is watching this and they they don't have a SaaS yet, I suggest see this trend and then build a SaaS that can use this trend, not to be the like I I would not suggest building another Open Clo wrapper to deploy Open Clo, um um Dockers and stuff like that. But to use the trend, basically, is a skill

1:07:37inside. It can work good. Well, Nabil, that was amazing. Thank you for your time and I'm sure we see you soon or out again in the podcast.