Don’t Fall For These Mistakes When Negotiating Brand Deals | Molly McAdam

0:00One of my biggest tips to any creator, or any entrepreneur in general, is create a list of what scares me. Often times is [music] the thing you don't want to do the most is the thing you need to do. I just sat down with Molly McAdam, [music] and we went over the art of the pivot. But that requires a mental mindset, that requires [music] an actual tactical strategy, and she's been able to talk about all of that. Where you getting your ideas, and ultimately how

0:24does that flow? If you can [music] master the talking to camera video, I feel like you can master anything cuz it's storytelling. I actually set a timer for 10 [music] minutes every day, and I only allow myself 10 minutes to look at social media. If your [music] content is resonating at all, you deserve to get paid for it. If this is something that you have been actively thinking about,

0:45it means you want to do it. You've built such a great platform. Do you have an idea of what you want to do now that you have this awesome platform? This is going to sound bad, but I think of I really don't want you to miss any of our future episodes. I'm going to ask if you to subscribe, and make sure you turn the notification bell on. This will only help us do more podcasts like this, bring on even better guests so that you can learn more from it. I love all of

1:07you guys, and let's get back into it. Molly McAdam, you have been creating content now for 10 years. Most creators can't even get to the 10th post, let alone 10 years. So I'm excited for our conversation cuz we're going to speak about longevity, and what it really takes to win as a creator. But before we do that, for those people that are tuning in right now that might not know you, why should they stick to the end of this

1:32episode to learn directly from you? I think the way I'm going to approach this episode is how I approach all of my posts on social media, which is I always think before I post, why should someone save this? What is the value that's going to come from this conversation that you're going to walk away with, that you're going to be then able to implement into your own life,

1:52and into your own creator journey? I I it. And the art of the pivot is the place that I want to start, okay? Because I've been through a ton of pivots and that's actually quite natural for most creators. If you're going to have longevity, you need to always be evolving your own brand. You went through quite a massive pivot in the last year or so. Can you speak to me about the content that you're curating before and ultimately what you pivoted

2:16to? Absolutely. I mean, 10 years, a long journey. Um so, I'm definitely a master at the pivot. Um I actually started posting even before that. I remember I grew up in um Palo Alto, which as we say is the heart of Silicon Valley. And so, I remember very distinctly when Instagram was first released, which was 2012, '13-ish. Um and within like a month of me getting the app, um I followed my first creator and I remember thinking this is going to be huge. It's a really authentic way to personally spread the word that newspapers or traditional media were doing, but now in a way where you're

3:01you're talking to an individual in some sense. And so, I immediately started posting in 2012, which is much longer ago than 10 years. But at the time I was modeling. Um so, I created a very different audience than I have now through that. Um I was doing traditional fashion fashion modeling. Um so, I kind of developed from there, learned that I didn't love the modeling aspect, but I loved sharing tips and tricks. And so, I worked my way into fashion content and then from there more into wellness content. Um and my last pivot um was not so much of changing the category, but more expanding on wellness. Um I

3:48like to say that I talk about the science of well-being. Yes. Um so, taking that traditional wellness content, smoothies and recipes, but expanding it to three different layers. Um the first layer that I like to look at is neuroscience and psychology. The second layer I like to look at is your more traditional wellness, which is routines, products you use, your environment. And then the final layer, which is macro, looking at culture, policy, politics, um and kind of social issues. And I kind of think if you don't have all three of those levels, you won't really understand well-being. Um I also always like to give the example of if you have,

4:31you know, silk pillow cases, Yeah. it doesn't necessarily mean you'll sleep good. You also have to have a lower noise pollution, which comes in with policy. Um you actually recently did a post, which I thought was very astute, where you said um something about self-help books, if they worked, um you'd only need one.

4:51100%. And I think there's a reason they don't always work, quote unquote, because you need all those layers. You need your policy working with your products, working with the neuroscience. I had scrolled down all the way through your content. I started binge-watching cuz [laughter] I was like, okay, this is phenomenal. I was enjoying all of the recent content, then I went back to understand the pivot. I just want to give you your flowers, because when you're pivoting content, for you it wasn't just topics like you're talking about. You're right, it was formats. It was the ability to do more talking videos and longer talking videos with

5:24different styles of edits. And that takes a level of bravery and courage that most people don't realize unless they're actually in that spot themselves. I know that when I pivoted my content, so when I first started creating content, I did my realm of fashion and fitness. I thought that was the cool thing to do. Ultimately, I was like, all right, I'm going to start creating content like that. And then it transitioned into more student-led content, as in what was I

5:46actually doing in my day-to-day life. So, I talked about my engineering background. And then beyond that, more recently has been towards entrepreneurs and creatives and building personal brands. Each of those pivots, though, is actually very scary cuz you're almost leaving an identity behind. And that also means that the audience had resonated with specific content that you're changing from. Speak to me about that. What were some underlying fears as you were experiencing this pivot of I know I'm supposed to do it, but this is

6:12actually holding me back. Yeah, I think I mean clearly you've you've gone through it because you can voice it perfectly. Um it's kind of this combination of fear of going out of the traditional I was doing more traditional wellness content, which you can assume you can kind of get the recipe of what works

6:31there. Yeah. But you're now off on this path where for me, I don't know if you felt this, too. It was almost like I felt trapped in a box. Yes. And I so badly knew that I wanted to do more. And trying to find that pathway is really confusing. Um I think in more traditional jobs there's a lane that you can watch people who are maybe higher up in a company and

6:57you can follow that lane. I think what's so exciting, but also so scary about being a creator, is you're completely making the lane in front of you. Am I going to go this way? Am I going to go that way? And you're right when you also mention the audience aspect. Yes. Which is I have cultivated an audience who loves fashion. Why would they care

7:16about the science of well-being? Um but it's also something that you always say, which is you are the niche, right? So, I think that's a huge aspect of you create that community, they trust you, you want to bring them value, and they know that. And maybe they want to go on this journey, too. I've met a lot of my followers in person, and a lot of them have actually said, "This was just an expansion of what I was doing. They I

7:40enjoyed this pivot." Um but as far as the fear you also yeah, you're I think something that I do every week and I would this is one of my biggest tips to any creator or any entrepreneur in general is create a list of what scares me. Mhm. And each Monday first thing so you can't talk yourself out of it, go down the list, go to the first one and execute

8:06it. It often times is the thing you don't want to do the most is the thing you need to do. And so creating this list forces it on you. Um I mean here you are creating a podcast which I'm sure was scary. Terrifying. But it was something you felt you needed to do and you kind of get in the habit

8:25of what can I scare myself this week? And I think you can keep yourself busy with oh, I'm just going to do another recipe reel or I'm going to do another cleaning up reel which was more the content I was creating. Um and you can trick yourself into doing that every week. And so having this list is the true deepest desires of what will really propel me and I'm going to do it

8:50and execute it first thing Monday. Molly, do you have a name for this list? You need to trademark this. What what is this list called? Well, I base it off off of Eleanor Roosevelt always said do one thing every day that scares you and I said I can't do it every day. Yes. do it every week. I love it. We got by the end of this podcast we got to come up with a name for that because people will listen to

9:10it and be like I got to do Molly's list. Yes, we'll share it. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, cool. So for me when I had pivoted my content, there were a lot of benefits from it and we can speak to it all day long which is higher engagement. When people meet you in person they're actually recognizing you for the thing that you feel aligned

9:27to. There's there's magic in that. There's power in that. But there is actually quite a negative consequence that I also experienced. So me being completely real with you when I made my pivots, especially when we made the pivot recently to more entrepreneurial content, we actually lost a lot of our audience. And we had to sit down internally within the team and say, "That's okay." So, I went from 5.4 million followers on Instagram and we lost 300,000 followers. And it was this active decision to constantly filter for the right people that we want to ultimately serve. And those people that leave, no hard feelings. I'm so glad

9:59that I was able to support you while I could, but ultimately in this next transition, I have to be okay with it. Did you experience anything like that, where there was a loss of followers or loss of engagement initially, or was it immediate for you in terms of the benefit? Um sure, of course. I lost

10:15an amount, but not as much as I thought. Fascinating. Um which is also rare because I was talking about policy, which can get a little tricky. Um I try not to go too far into politics. Um but yeah, I definitely lost some followers, but it's kind of what you said, which is they weren't my followers.

10:35Right. And I think you were talking about about the benefits of pivoting. And you named some of them, and I would say the number one is longevity. Yes. If you're going to do this for a long time, you need to be so excited about the content that you're creating. Yes. And so excited to see where this journey goes. And this was the pivot that I could see longevity and an actual path

10:57and business forward. Mhm. Um and you talk about this a lot, where if you're just creating content for brands, you can only go so far. How Where is the actual journey leading? And I I sit there every day and I go, "Oh my god, this could happen. I could go here with this." Um so I think that excitement made it okay to lose some of those people who are no longer around for the

11:23journey. Love it. That's exactly how I think about it, too. But I'm just so happy you brought it up cuz it's reassuring for the person listening to this right now. If they know that they have to pivot their content, which again is an experience that probably 100% of creators go through if they want longevity, but they're having this internal insecurity around it, but it's awesome to hear you voice it. Being a creator for a decade is crazy. To have that type of longevity

11:46is absolutely amazing. Is it okay if I pick your brain here cuz I've been really looking forward to asking you this question. This idea of micro macro wellness, right? So I've been watching bingeing your content. I'll go to learn from you here. Is there anything from your actual learnings of this is how people become healthy and that you've actually added to your workflow as a creator where it's like here's some boundaries or here's an environment that I I'm going to Yes, I can see you [laughter] I can see you

12:10light up. Talk to me. I mean, this is what's so exciting about the content that I create and I love doing it because it is so tangible. Um, you can apply it almost immediately to your life. Even bigger concepts like culture or policy. Yeah. Um, you can do deeper deeper research into that and then um, apply it. This doesn't have to do with my content. I've gotten involved in some

12:38downtown I live in downtown Los Angeles. Here we are filming on this beautiful day in downtown. Um, and something that I really loved learning about recently is the impact of community around you, of walkability, [snorts] of neighborhoods, um, and your local government. And how much that impacts you. Are your sidewalks clean and safe so that

13:00Mhm. you can get your steps in. Um, is there street lighting so you feel okay walking at night? Um, how is the noise pollution? All these aspects. And I think doing this kind of work outside of your content allows you so getting involved in local politics or for me in particular, but if you are a creator, I would recommend doing some sort of side projects or volunteering or some sort of activities around your content. So, if you're into cooking or food content, maybe find a group in your community where you can

13:36share recipes. I think for me when you experience it outside of creating content just cuz it is an individual career a lot of the time. It's can be kind of lonely. And when you are able to do it with others in a volunteer setting or communal setting, then you can take it in a fresh new way into your content. That would be my biggest tip. I mean, listen, I could talk all day [laughter] about the micro, meso, macro well-being, but I do think there's value in stepping outside cuz it can be an

14:10all-encompassing career. 100%. Um so, just connecting with others and seeing your niche through their eyes, too, in a communal sense. I got to say, I've had a lot of conversations with all different types of creators. That might have been one of the most unique pieces of advice that I've ever heard. And it's so true because as a creator, so much of that journey is introspective. And I think content creation can truly act like therapy in many different ways, but that also means that you're isolated 99% of the time, especially as you speak to a creator business owner, right? Somebody that has

14:42so many things going on all the time. It's really difficult to step out of that and find a community, but to volunteer is actually a very cool idea. So, you take topics that you're curating on already, you go find those respective people. That is a phenomenal, phenomenal piece of advice. Thank you. Can you talk to me in terms of the back end of your content? So, for me, this is where I love to get tactical and people don't realize there's a lot of layers to content creation cuz you have to go through the ideating, then you're doing all of the research, and you do such a

15:10beautiful job of it, then you go into a potential part of your script writing, then you go and film. What does it look like behind Molly's workflow as a creative? Where are you getting your ideas and ultimately how How that flow? Yeah, I mean, this is something that you do so well when you do your content on your page. I kind of feel like you approach it in like the micro, meso,

15:28macro as well. Um because you understand that every editing style makes a difference. The lighting makes a difference. How you The hook that you start with makes a difference. And I think with that pivot, I moved more to talking right to the camera videos, which is a whole different ballgame than, you know, aesthetic or voice-overs. So, um it's taken some some time to learn and improve as I go, but if you can master the talking-to-camera video, I feel like you can master

16:00anything cuz it's storytelling. Very cool. Um and so, for me, what I start with is every day of the week is dedicated to a a type of topic, meaning like, um on Monday, I edit. On Tuesday, I plan. Wednesday, I film. Um so, it goes I'm always in kind of one brain for that day, which helps me stay organized. I think when you're running to this meeting or running to this meeting, it can get tough. And so, I try to block off as many times for me to just purely do one whole day of filming. Um that would be my biggest And it helps you get

16:38it done. Uh I think when you're not working with a schedule, that might be my type A thinking. Um it's just hard to execute every week. But, my planning and research is pretty extensive. We were talking off camera a little bit, but I actually have um my dad is a political scientist, my mom works on uh political campaigns, and my sister's an urban planner. So, I think all of them around me have influenced me greatly into naturally just thinking about the way we move through this world. And what does well-being look like on a true true scale beyond just your products or

17:23your individual habits? Um so, as far as coming up with ideas, I think it's just something naturally that comes to me. And then once you break down that door, I mean, if anyone is looking into a niche they're excited about, it should be something that you do naturally just think about often. But, I just one idea piggybacks after another and I film the video and then I go, "Oh my god, I could expand it this way." So, it takes me about for my deep dive videos, which have all the research, that'll take me about 3 hours to research. And again, these are about

17:59a minute long. Um so, they're extensive. And beyond that to film is a good 20 minutes. And then after that, the editing, cuz I edit my own, I'm very particular. Um and that takes about 3 hours as well. Nice. So, from start to finish, that's the process. Um But yeah, the well-being ideas just come naturally. I mean, just walking around neighborhoods or the other day I was sitting there thinking, "Is that Is there a an optimal

18:32amount of friends to have?" Nice. Okay. [laughter] Which is so random, but it is, you know, you're trying to you're in your mid-20s, mid-30s, mid-40s, wherever you are, and you're thinking, "Oh my god, I, you know, I know friendships are so important, but it does take a lot of maintenance. Is there an optimal number?" And there's research on all this stuff. And I just get excited about the idea of, "Where can I dive into this?" And I think that's something something somebody

18:59would be interested in life. If you're stuck right now and you don't know what to post, you have to try storytelling content because it's the easiest way to build the right audience. So, I'm running a completely free webinar from August 12th to August 14th called how to turn your story into content. Inside we'll break down exactly how to find, shape, and tell your story that immediately connects with your audience. Hundreds of thousands of people have come to my free events before, and they leave with a ton of clarity and practical strategies. So, I don't want you to miss out. The link is in the description below, and now let's

19:27get back into the episode. I actually have a neuro-engineering background, and my entire college experience was doing research paper after research paper after research paper. This wasn't a necessary plan for me to ask, but I'm just curious, is there an optimal number of Cuz you're going to get me addicted to that answer. I'm going to go search it up after.

19:42There is, and I What is it? Um okay, so your optimal number, and this is actually Dunbar's number. He made it famous. He's actually, I don't know if you've ever heard this, but the maximum amount of people that you really can know is 150. That's max. The recommended optimal number of friends is about five. If you get beyond 13, you actually start to diminish to diminish in well-being because it takes more maintenance, and so those deeper friendships actually suffer because you can't go deeper after 13, if that makes

20:15sense. That 100% makes sense. Oh my goodness, I've been doing it wrong this whole time. [laughter] Wait, then how does this apply to the creator landscape where we're constantly in the eyes of thousands and thousands and thousands of people? What is happening to the psychology of us cuz we're obviously exposed to so much commentary, right? We we post a piece of content, there's already 12 people telling us what we shouldn't or what we

20:37should do. What does the research say about that, and ultimately, is there something that we can do to create healthy boundaries? Should I not be looking at my comments so often? I mean, I only check my comments for the first hour after I posted, and then I never look again. I understood. Um and actually in as far as And this is something that you asked about, as far as viewing other people's content, I actually set a timer for 10 minutes every day, and I only allow myself 10

21:04minutes to look at social media. Really? Yeah, because I you know, I was sitting First of all, it is better for our well-being Sure. to just separate ourselves as as much value as I get from social media, there does need to be boundaries, but I was thinking about this the other day. I was like, what if Jimi Hendrix, who was one of the best guitarists, spent all day scrolling through other people playing guitar? What would his

21:34sound be like? If it was constantly being influenced by all these other guitarists, would he have his own sound? I'm sure he did get influenced by so many other guitarists at the time. But I think a lot of it had to also just come innately within him. Fast. And so I want to be really careful that I'm not copying other people's styles or I'm not going towards other people's

22:00styles that isn't actually my own. Mhm. Um so that would be a suggestion that I would make for any creator is give yourself some distance when it comes to viewing content. The biggest distance that I've been curating has been if I'm doing research for my content creation process, I'll always do it on my laptop and not my phone because if I'm doing it on my phone, I'll just end up doomscrolling even without me realizing it. So that is one boundary that I've set. I'm curious, do you utilize AI in your workflow at

22:26all as a creative? Yes, I do. Um I think at this stage it would be um unproductive to not use it. Uh especially for somebody who's trying to curate a lot of research. And I was actually just talking to my dad about this, who is a political scientist and has done a lot of research. Um you know, where do we fall on

22:50the research that is now provided by AI? Yeah. You know, we were talking about how originally research is to benefit the the people, really. And you would be going to libraries anyway, and now you just have a new source to receive it. Um, I know it's kind of a hot topic right now of when to use AI and when not. I don't use it to script, but I certainly use it to research, and I would suggest that to anybody who's research heavy in their

23:20content. For me, I utilize AI a ton actually for a lot of what you're saying. For the research component where I am always trying to see where my own holes in my logic are cuz you don't know what your blind spots are until someone objectively can scan it. And that's where AI is really great use. So, I use Whisper, and I basically do a huge voice note to Claude. I import and I basically state this is what I assume about my content, why it's performing or why it's not performing, this is who my audience is, and are there any holes in my logic, and ultimately can you fix those holes

23:51and give me a different revision of thinking. And that has helped me a ton as a creative cuz again, we we think that our audience is X, Y, and Z, but ultimately if you can really dig deep with Claude or AI to ultimately help you, then why not use that effectively? It is fascinating because you talked about talking videos, I actually do you think that the rise of yapping has hit the ecosystem a ton. But, I was watching your content, you're so good at it. You you speak so eloquently, and again, it sounds so natural on camera. And I know a lot of people that are trying to craft

24:21content, they go immediately to direct to camera, but it's so awkward cuz you're talking to a lens, and you do one of those things where you're constantly getting your word out, but you can't actually get it out, and you get so stressed, and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I don't want to do this anymore." Do you have any tips around yapping content at

24:35all? I mean, I definitely agree with you that it's awkward. Yeah. I'm glad it looks like I'm a natural, but um, I still feel uncomfortable when I do it. I think it's only natural to feel uncomfortable. You're not talking to a human. Um, but I do think it's valuable to pretend you are. Um, and go with it. I think one of the the best pieces of advice is go into it

25:00wanting to have fun. Yeah. This is content, if you're doing it, that you're excited about. And so, I can't wait to share what I've learned about the optimal number of friends. Mhm. Right? And this is going to be we can throw some jokes into it, we can laugh in the middle of it. Um, but make it as

25:18sound as conversational as as possible. I think I've heard the advice of pretend you're actually FaceTiming one of your best friends and you're just telling them I also think it takes practice. I hope so. Um, which I mean, you're incredibly good and incredibly natural at talking to the camera. kind. So, I do think most of it comes with let's just practice and over time you'll get better and better. Um, but if you're struggling, pretend you're talking to one of your best friends on

25:46the other side. It's hilarious that you're saying good at it and I can tell my videographer behind the scenes there is smirking a little bit cuz he sees the actual reality of what it takes. And it's a lot of mess-ups all the time. And that's the big message that I have for people as well. And so reassuring to hear that from you cuz again, from the outside it looks like you have it all figured out from the talking standpoint, but I'm sure if you go through any creator's drafts or you go through their photo albums, there's a ton of takes and it's absolutely normal for it. Are you the

26:13type where you have just bullet points then and you go and speak to those based on how you believe should sound conversationally or do you have a script written out? Are you going line by line? I'm curious to see how you're doing these videos. Yeah. Um, also same in the fact that I am my clips, if we saw the real version

26:30before the editing went in, oh my gosh. I think every creator actually should be required to put out a video of them attempting. Yes. [laughter] And it would make us all feel a little bit better. Yeah. Um, but typically for the research script or research videos, I do not have a script. I have bullet points. I think it makes it a little bit more conversational because if I came in here with you

26:53Yeah. um and I said I had a whole script I was about to re- do for you, I don't think it would sound natural. We're having a conversation and that's how I want it to sound in my videos is that I'm having a conversation with you. Um not like I've memorized and I'm now performing it.

27:09Yeah. You sound great, by the way. You're doing a phenomenal job. [laughter] I want to talk about the other side of it. I say that to be a good creator, you have two parts. You have the content, but you also have the business, right? If you want to be creating content for a long period of time, you can't be afraid of filling your own cup because it's the only way that you have even the resources to then go and build out more content and do it for a longer period of

27:30time. I'm curious because obviously you had spoken about earlier how now it's imperative for creators to own their own assets, right? And so that's probably playing a part in terms of your next direction. But brand deals is the first thing that I think most creators think about, right? So it's like I want to start monetizing. Let me go and do a

27:45brand deal. A lot of people don't even know where to start, right? So they're like, how do I even go and find a brand deal? How do I go ahead and negotiate with them? And then it's like the difference between one-off brand deals and long-term brand deals and building those relationships. Is there a common mistake that you often find creators go through in terms of brand deals? Is there something that you

28:03can provide as advice for them? Well, I think first and foremost, and I'm thinking about what what I went through 10 years ago. Um and that was get the basics down, which is um know your usage rights, perpetuity. Um those minor words make a huge difference. Um and so I think value yourself more than you would when initially starting out because if your content is resonating at all you deserve

28:37to get paid for it. Um and I think this is a mistake a lot of creators make. Um so know those basics of business. That would be my first advice. There was a situation where I signed over my usage rights for life. For life? And that's one of the I I say it now because I want to help as many people, but it was one of the first opportunities I got and I was like, yes,

29:00for life. [laughter] Um and it still haunts me. Still haunts me. Um so that would be my first advice. Second, when you're getting into relationships with brands, treat them like relationships. Mhm. Um you should genuinely like this brand. Go around your house, see all the products that are in there, and send them DMs. And say why you love them, and say which product you use. And if they don't have an opportunity then, that's okay. Reach out to them again in 3 months. Keep that relationship going. I know I said the optimal number of friends is 13,

29:36but these are business relationships. [laughter] They're different. still treat them like they are relationships. Yeah. I've had some brands that I've talked to for years, and I think of them as as friends. As friends. Not one of those 13 core, but as friends. Um so that would be my first advice. And have patience, too. I I I totally get what you're saying, which is to expand the business, you do need to then fill your own cup to be able to to grow. And I think that's one of the biggest challenges is not si- si- signing up for brand deals that don't actually work for you, so that you

30:14can expand a little bit further. Um I also think an exciting opportunity I'd love to get your take on this is Substack, which is an owned form of media in a sense. You now can do paid subscriptions. So if you're a creator just starting out, that could be a way for you to monetize without also having

30:34to chase after brand deals. Absolutely. I I always recommend that one, an email is so important because you're owning the data. But more importantly, to digital products, that landscape has completely revolutionized how creatives can start making consistent income. Mhm. So, my story is that when I first did affiliate deals and I was doing these one-off brand deals, I looked at it and I thought, "Okay, so if I am making this company, let's say $5,000, and I'm taking 10% commission, okay, I have $500. What about the other $4,500 that I could potentially have, right?" And the idea of a 24-year-old developing a business before social media and digital product it was just

31:13not a possibility. Mhm. I ended up developing a digital guide, a 62-page PDF that I put a lot of time and effort into, but it wasn't magical. It wasn't beautiful. And ultimately, you can utilize that without much risk. You can go ahead and ask your audience, "Hey, what can I potentially help you with?" You can develop this product and you can reap all the benefits of it,

31:31which I think is so, so, so important. On that brand deal side, I've heard you talk about this and utilizing snapshots of your analytics and putting it into AI to get an understanding of your pricing. Yeah. That is one of the fundamental mistakes that I see a lot of creatives go through cuz they don't know how to value their

31:46own work. What would you say to that? The pricing aspect of um the creative industry is truly the wild west. 100%. Even years into this, and again, started 10 years ago and even started posting in 2013. So, we still don't really have a standard that we're working with, and honestly, I I would like to see that

32:08change in the industry. Mhm. I think there is some power that creators have that we don't push because I think so many people are trying to get into the industry, so the competition is high. I see. But I do think there needs to be more value for creators. Um so I think understanding your pricing is a good place to start with that. Uh I always think also offering a price that puts you higher um than you think because you're always worth more I think than

32:41than our individual even in any context. I think people like you more than you think they like you. Yeah. Um so I think that's the same with brands. Put your best post forward and believe in yourself. You have value um and I do think if you're struggling to find out where to price yourself, it AI is a great place to start. Um what AI does is take all the information they have and combine it and then come out with an answer. So they're taking all that information. They're probably going to give you the closest um recommendation they can come up with. For me personally at this point, I have a manager which

33:19does help um narrow down where you would land. But if you don't have that, that's a great starting point. And I think this is also a benefit of AI in that you may not need a manager as much as I did 5 years ago. Um I had no idea how to negotiate and I didn't understand a lot of these terms. And now you have something that can help you. And so even more this opportunity of being a creator is even more available than it was years and years and years ago because you have kind of a manager within this system of AI. I still think because we talked about the idea of this

33:56is an isolating career. Having a team who has your back and you can talk through issues with is valuable. So I do think getting to that point can be helpful. But in the meantime, that's a great method. I mean, I fully agree. And I I have said this so many times. I genuinely believe that I have the easiest job in this room even right now. As in I get to come here and do the thing that interests me. I get to talk to you, right? And I get to open up these ideas. But the team is there to take care of so much of the heavy lifting that nobody else sees. And

34:26it's so important that you surround yourself with the right group of people. I'm curious because you've been in this landscape now for 10 years, actually even in my shorter time of the last 6 years, I have seen the industry change from the brand deal strategy. So, what I mean by that is when I first started, a lot of brands wanted to script out the actual branded content. And you [laughter]

34:50I knew that was going to hit in there. [gasps] So, it's it's funny because I think now brands are starting to realize that the creative should be held by the creator and it actually allows you to have stronger conversions. But talk to me about what you've seen. The good brand. Yes, the good brands. Okay. [laughter]

35:05I love it. No shade, no shade. Um But yeah, absolutely. I mean, here you are a you have a creator and they have their whole community, but you're going to tell them what to say? It doesn't add up. And I know you have talking points. I get that a lot of these are campaigns for sales or for um new launch products. So, I get that there's some things that need to be mentioned. If you're telling them what to say, the message is not going to land. It's that simple. Um I also think more organic mentions would be valuable to brands. As in, I would love to see

35:41signing a 12-month deal with a creator where each month can you authentically put this into your content? I think that would land so much better than a scripted step-by-step, we need you to hit this, this, this. I am more likely to buy a product if I see a creator I like and every couple videos, the product the a product shows up in

36:05their videos. I would buy that product. Um much faster than I would buy oh, they mentioned it once 2 months ago and it fell a little awkward. 100% and I think brands are starting to wake up to that reality more and more. And I have seen this so closely, especially as I talk to these brands

36:22directly. They're also realizing the exact same thing that we've been trying to tell them the last 6 years, right? It's like, you know the thing that we talked about 6 years ago when I told you that you should let me say the thing. It's like they're like, "Oh, I get it now." But it's so cool because there's all these investment funds now that are going into creatives and people are starting to wake up to this idea that creators actually have the leverage. And there's so many people out there that look at your story and think, "I want to become a creator as well." But they have this

36:48fear of visibility, they have this fear of judgment cuz it can be hard, right? Sometimes it does feel like you're putting yourself out to the world, you're like like me or hate me, I'm going to do my very best. And that's very difficult for most people. Is there something that you think of in terms of your perspective or mindset that could be really uplifting for those individuals that have yet to take that

37:05first step? Ooh. The first step is always the hardest. Always. Um and it falls back onto what I said about do one thing that scares you. Mhm. If this is something that you have been actively thinking about for a while, it means you want to do it. Mhm. Give yourself that moment. They did a

37:25research study, back to the research. Heck yeah, let's keep on going. They did a research [laughter and clears throat] study about people's regrets at the end of their life. And there was two categories that they fell in. One were relationships. Mhm. We love that. Relationships are everything, community is everything. Second were in a was in action.

37:44Mhm. And it tends to be that your inaction haunts you more than any action you will take. I know in a practical sense, I've had a lot of friends who have re- jumped out of their comfort zone and they've started posting on accounts that were not followed by all their friends. Um that's a good practical method you can do if you want to just play around with content and see where you land. But I think filming that first video and then posting it

38:17will lead you to the next step. Mhm. And I I would circle back to the we need to name it still, the list of hard things. Please. Um your call being called by your intuition to do this for a reason. Give yourself a chance. And I think now more than ever, it's way more acceptable than it was 10 years ago to make content and create content around something you're interested in. And I often think if if somebody else has an issue with that, that's more of a them issue. Um you're following something that will make you

38:50happy. Mic drop. I always say this, that you will never be judged by somebody doing more than you. It will always be those that are doing less. And what are the chances that although we all consume content on social media, that your friends that are judging you right now haven't had the thought of let me be on the opposite side of the screen as well. Of course they've thought about it. And when you go ahead, especially the people that are the closest to us often judge us the most because they know that you and them started in the exact same spot. So if ultimately you're taking these steps to improve upon the

39:22thing that they have been dreaming about and you succeed, it's a signal to them that they've made the wrong decision. And so everyone that's listening into this right now, the fear of judgment, fear of visibility is in all of us and it's actually not a sign that you're doing something wrong, it's a sign that you're human. And you have a very important piece of advice there which is stop thinking about the entire journey, just take that first step and ultimately

39:43you can go and figure out the rest. What I want to ask you about is burnout. And that's the word that I have heard creators talk about for so long. And it's almost been this thing where if you are a creator, it's like inevitable. People are like, yeah, of course I went through a burnout phase. And you have these typical videos where people say, guys, I need to take a break from social media. I got to take the next few months

40:03off and they come back, right? Have you experienced a version of burnout in your own experience? And have you also figured out a way to kind of navigate that as a creator when you're feeling really low energy? Like what do you do to get yourself back up? Yeah, definitely such a good question. Um in my well-being content I do talk about this a lot and

40:23this was a a big reason behind my pivot. Other than, you know, the joy of talking about the science of well-being, I also pivoted because I recognized I looked at the big picture of my life and what does my lifestyle want to look like and I think going down the more traditional lifestyle route can be a little tricky because you're sharing your life every single day and that was

40:48a life I did not want to share. I found that it would be more valuable to share research on well-being than come with me to get my morning coffee. And no shade to people who do create that content because I think some people are so good at it and it becomes so natural to them. To me it wasn't and I think I felt that long-term that that isn't the life I want to live and so the content I'm going to make needs

41:20to reflect that. Yes. And I started coming up on burnout, which was I'm exhausted. I just want to go to the movie or go out to dinner and not film it. Mhm. And so I made a big change in that I'm just going to mainly sit in my house and film my content and I'm going to live my

41:35life outside. You mentioned something incredibly important so thank you for bringing it up. Most times people that are afraid of creating content will say, "I want a private life." And they'll say, "I don't want to share my life online." And they're like, "June, I don't want to do the thing that you're doing because everyone knows your experience and your background." And the truth of the matter is you as a creator need to curate your own boundaries. And you have to be able to say no cuz it's a dubious of things you really want. So everyone knows that I have a girlfriend but 99% of people don't know her name. Everyone knows

42:06about my dad but 99% people don't don't know what my dad does and doesn't know his name. But it's cool because you've made that decision. You're saying, "I want to live my life outside of content. I don't want to have to film it. So, let me curate that boundary." Your content is still performing exceptionally well. I believe people think of content creation, they think of it's like a reality TV that they have to document everything. That's not true. It's like a lot of it is your decision and that autonomy, I believe more creators should feel empowered to capture cuz I feel as though the most amount of burnout has

42:37been people that have felt misaligned to their content. But, also you're right that they're constantly on. They're like, "Oh wait, I can't enjoy this experience with my family cuz I feel as though I have to film it." Or, "I can't enjoy this experience with my girlfriend because I have to record this dinner date. I got to make sure that everyone knows about it." And I'm curious, when you made that initial decision to have that boundary, was it scary cuz you're like, "I think people do want to see that part of my life." Did you have any second thoughts of it or was it Were you like, "You know what, I'm just going to

43:02do it overnight and I feel confident about this decision." I think I felt confident because I really understood that I wanted to feel comfortable in my life. Mhm, yeah. And it is not in my nature to share every friend I have on social media and I wanted I I needed that boundary. And I think that's what's so exciting about the industry right now is because it's been going for a long time, there are so many different types of creators. It is no longer the lifestyle reality show creator. Um and in fact, I think the ones who are not focused like that have a longer longevity. You because you're

43:44speaking, you're educating, you're typically creating content that goes beyond your day-to-day. Um and you're able to focus in on one topic and share about that while still sharing personal moments. Yeah. Um I think you do a great job about this. Thank you. Um but you you want to be careful not to be a ghost. Like you're not trying to be a reporter. This is something with my type of content. I'm not trying to just

44:15report facts. Right. I want to connect it to my own life. Um, and this is something because it's unnatural to me. Yeah. Um, that I do talk to my manager about. And this is what's This is the value of having a team around you who fills those holes as you said that maybe you can't see.

44:34Yeah. But sharing somebody with somebody what your daily routine is, but also the research behind a good daily routine creates a full picture. But to reiterate, you do not need to share all of the things you do outside of your home, who all your friends are, even your significant other. I put pictures. I don't really talk about my relationship other than tagging every once in a while. Um, and I think that creates a space that is more valuable to you. And I just I think it's a really tricky line to walk if you're filming from sunup from sundown, your intimate

45:17personal whole life. 100% cuz you have to realize that content creation is something that you signed up for, but it might not be what your significant other signed up for. And my girlfriend is the complete opposite of me where she's like, "If I could, I wouldn't want to live in anywhere that people know my name. I'd rather live in a secluded section in a

45:35cabin. I just want to do that thing." And it's fascinating because I have to consciously make these decisions where it's like, "My family's so important to me. My girlfriend's so important to me." But in the same breath, that means that I have to actively make decisions to keep them safe, to keep them private. And so it's been a fun balance to kind of understand they're getting into more of my world, but I still remember who they are and the fact that they didn't

45:57sign up for any of this stuff. Now, I I know we've been talking about talking videos, but you actually do a really good job carousels as well, and I think that you develop them beautifully. I've spoken a lot to my own meta partner, so she's telling me all the time that in 2026, the carousels are another great option for you to get more

46:13exposure. From about 2021 to I would say about 2025, carousels for the most part were dead from an exposure standpoint. It was great for your own existing followers, but that's no longer the case. Yep. Do you have a strategy around these carousels? Do you have any advice for people that want to develop their own? Yeah, I think I love this resurgence of

46:32the carousel. I think my biggest piece of advice when you're going to post one is why would someone save this? Mhm. I think anytime you ask that question, and that's very different from when you were creating fashion content, I think we all dabbled in it I when Instagram first started cuz it was only still pictures. So, how much could you

46:54really share? I keep them very simple. Um as simple as possible for the title, and then why would somebody save this? What issue is this going to solve for someone else? And I think if you overthink it beyond that, you get in your own way. I think there's humans, while complex, are also quite simple, and we all struggle with very similar problems. And so, if you're struggling with it, probably somebody needs help with that. Um so, that would be a good baseline to start. What topic should I do is what am I struggling

47:28with? Yeah. So, you're most qualified to help the person you used to be. The framework of why would somebody save this is very powerful cuz it actually has so many layers underneath it. One of the key layers that I can immediately imagine is you have to know who the person actually is cuz how the heck are you going to know what they're going to save if you don't know who they are? How did you sort that? How do you know who's on the opposing side of the screen? Do you have a specific

47:53avatar in mind? I mean, I think about it. I guess I think this is going to sound bad, but I think of myself. Yeah. What do I need help with? I I'm not so unique that I I don't struggle with everything that everyone else struggles with. Um and my topic is pretty it can be pretty big, which is well-being. Um there's so many different kind of avenues you could take with that, but I think I imagine a girl or a boy and they're not feeling comfortable in their own life. And they're wondering which ways could it get better? And so I always think is this savable? I think

48:37that's the metric that I look for more than anything else Mhm. when I post. And as I told you, I only look at my posts for like an hour and a half after, and then I'm like, it's done. But I always look at exactly the hour and a half mark, how many saves does it have? And from that, I'll know. It doesn't matter the views, doesn't matter the comments really to me. What matters is are people saving this? Cuz

49:00then I created value. It is fundamentally what makes a good creator. So, a lot of times people come to me and they're like, June, how do I make quality content? And I have to ask them, how do you define quality, right? And then their heads are thinking production value. They're thinking the fancy camera, the fancy lighting in the setup, the makeup, all of that. They're like, if I don't have that, then there's no way that I could produce quality content. You're talking about saves though, right? That's an actual psychology behind the viewer. And it's so compared to that people actually recognize that for what it is. I'm

49:27personally curious. So, you've built such a great platform up to this point in time. You have all these different options, and that's what every creator should be building for themselves, options. Where do you want to take it? You should give yourself the room to go through any different direction. Do you have an idea of what you want to do now that you have this awesome platform? You have content now that gets more engagement than ever before. Do you have an offer in mind, or do you want to do a different type of content? Just curious

49:49to see your next steps. Um I mean, I'm always excited about the next steps. I I'm really happy that this content that I've started to create is resonating, first and foremost, um, cuz I was nervous how this going to play, and I've been really happy with the results. Um, my next steps, as I mentioned to you about Substack, I really think this is a way long-form content is really exciting to me right now, and I think unfortunately, I actually just listened to a podcast episode that was about how

50:22we're becoming, um, illiterate. Mhm. Uh, we're kind of moving into a an illiterate time in history, which shocked me, and I think there's something really personal about creating long-form written content that people can read. Mhm. And I I I get excited about the combination of oral and then also written work. And then, beyond that, I

50:48do have a couple app ideas. Very cool. very excited about that I've I would I won't share anything yet, but I am very excited about and I think they would be very tangible to well-being and helping you navigate, um, the day-to-day life that can be so overwhelming, especially now with so much noise constantly. Um, but, yeah,

51:13I'm excited about that. The reason why I'm such a big fan of you is that you have this obsession around content, right? It's not as if you're thinking about it as I want to do something for the next 3 months or 6 months. You don't think like that. You're immediately like, what are the bigger steps that I could potentially take? So, my final question for you that I've been dying to ask you is, you have now been creating content for a full decade. And the greatest part about our shared beliefs is that we want to do this for a very long period of time. We don't want to do it for the next 3

51:40months and call it quits. And I'm curious, after you've been creating for 10, if we're creating for another 10 years, I know that sounds crazy. It makes sense crazy in my brain, too. And people search Molly McCanum up on Google or TikTok or Cloud, who knows what it's going to be at that time.

51:56Right. What comes out? What do you want people to remember you for? I'll be 40. So, um You'll be in your prime. [laughter] I'll be going right into my prime. Yeah. Um you know what you talked about is so true. It's I I've always from 2013, um love the idea of this content idea that where we can share um concepts with people and engage them in conversations and have these communities. And I've now found something that I'm so passionate about, which is the science of well-being. And every time a new platform like TikTok, like Instagram, like Substack, it really doesn't matter the platform. It's that I think of

52:42content as a way to further these ideas. Um and so, I guess what I would be wanting to be known for is that she understands well-being. She can talk to you about it on every level. And I Like you said, there's no standard platform that I can think of at that time that who knows. Who knows, which is really scary. It's not about the

53:09platform. You should have the excitement over what you're talking about and the community will follow wherever you go. Um but I would really like to be known as the person you go to for your well-being. You're amazing. There's so much to you where and I want everyone that's listening to this understand exactly what you've been able to do for 10 years. You took this goal of becoming a creator and every step of the way as you've evolved as a human being, you had the intellect and also the desire to reinvent and to go ahead and try out some new content, new formats. You're 10 years in and you're saying, "I have a

53:47new format that I want to experiment with." And I know creators that have been creating content for like 100 days and they're like, "Yeah, I don't want to do this anymore." Like I'm so stuck in my own thing. I never want to do this format ever again. So it's just wonderful what you've been able to build and I can imagine no matter what platform it's going to be in 10 years,

54:01you're going to be certainly at the top. I think you're building something exceptional. I want to say, Molly, thank you so much for your time. This was Creator Unplugged. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.