Screensharing top takes in AI/startups

9:17And we are live. Hey everyone, what's up? Welcome to Sip Live, a live show where we're reviewing hot takes from the timeline, giving you some ideas. I'm your host Greg Eisenberg, and joining me is my guest host, Jonathan Courtney, a shrimp millionaire. Hello, I'm a shrimp millionaire. If you've ever wondered what a shrimp millionaire looks like,

9:48this is exactly what it looks like. This guy. I'm kidding. I He's a you know, he's a a founder AJN Smart, is that what you say? I just realized that I'm hearing myself in the YouTube version of this while I'm talking the whole time, and now I just saw I solved it and figured it out. Very excited to do this for this, Greg. Show us

10:16what's happening today. So, what's happening today is I felt that, you know, there's a lot of shows on the internet, live streams, there's a lot of podcasts, um but they don't really pick what I think are the most interesting takes. Now, I'm not talking about news takes, okay? I'm talking about ideas, things that, you know, scratch my head the right way, and I wanted to just bring them on to a show

10:44with a friend. Welcome. Hello, I'm the friend. You're my friend. And I wanted to basically say, is this a good take, you know? So, I'm hoping that the crowd, the chat, is either going to say, is this take a sip, which to me is a good take, a hot take, or a skip, which to me is a cold take. So, throughout this entire live stream, I don't know how long this is going to go, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour, who knows, I want the chat to come in and just tell us how it is. I got chat going right here. So, if you're in the chat,

11:18give us give us some emojis, juice boxes, give us, you know, the death emoji. You can throw in a shrimp emoji for your boy, Jonathan Courtney. And uh, I just wanted to, yeah, you know, just get right into it, pick up some takes, and we'll see where this goes. So, producer, can you change the screen to the takes? And we will get

11:43right into it. All right. So, I've got a bunch of, um, takes, but the first take I wanted to, to give. And by the way, Jonathan has not seen any of this. I saw this tweet. It says, "There's a baby food app making a million dollars a month. I was searching for baby food apps for my newborn, and I realized the market is absolutely

12:06insane. The more expensive the app, the more parents seem to trust it. So, you can see here, there's an app. This data is by Sensor Tower. Solid Starts, Baby's First Food, making a million dollars a month. Now, Jonathan, I know you're a father. I'm a father, too. And a baby. You're a baby and a father, which is one of the most interesting combos known to

12:28man. And my question to you is, what do you think about this idea? Uh, you like it? Do you not like it? Do you think there's opportunities to create more baby apps? What's your, what's your reaction? Wait a second. What So, what does this app do? Is it recipes or something? Can, can we have a look at what it actually Is Is it a recipe app? Or is it for

12:47buying baby food? I think so. I don't know about you. When I, when I had my baby, um, when my wife had our baby, When you had the baby. Just When I, when I, when I had our baby, so, uh, my wife actually bought a course around the first 100 foods that your baby

13:08should be eating. And I don't know, it was a few hundred dollars. And so, I don't know if you can see on the screen, but this is, uh, the app. And it basically says the first 100 foods that you should be buying. Uh, and making for, trusted by pediatric feeding experts, meal ideas, and then you can track food and reactions. So, I

13:31was just when I saw this, I was shocked. Like, a million dollars a month for this? Like, you know. That is insane. It's insane. Well, you know, okay, here's the thing. I have a child. The first couple of months with your first child, it's so kind of scary and confusing. And especially when it comes to health stuff, you just kind of want someone to tell you this is the safe thing, this is the right thing. Food is very confusing. And so, for me, if there was a product that's just really clearly saying, "These are the things you can feed your baby in the first 100 days, and these things will

14:11not kill your baby most likely." I think that But But the fact that it is a The thing that it says here, the fact that the more expensive versions of the apps actually do better, and that parents trust them more. Yeah, I I mean, similar with like, I guess weddings and stuff like that. There are these things where people want to spend a lot of money because they just you get one

14:35shot. You know what I mean? You don't get like loads of tries over and over again to mess this up. So, if I'm looking for things for my child, the price is helping me figure out, okay, does this company actually take this seriously, or is this just an AI-generated thing? So, I think for me, when I'm looking at something like this, I I didn't buy this particular app, but when I'm looking at baby foods, for example, in the store, I am kind of scanning the shelves and looking at the most expensive one, and like, that's probably the safest one, even if that's not necessarily true. Yeah. So, I think

15:12like, the take is it's a sip. It's a sip. It's a sip. I have two reactions to to this little sippy right here. One is if the product works well for babies, chances are it works well for pets. That's just the rule. I feel like that. Right? So, it's like, okay, you know, what is the equivalent of you get your puppy, what what is your first 100 days look like? And I think you can bring this solid starts idea to puppies that I think would work really well. So, there's that. That's number one. Number two is if something is making a million dollars a month, there's always an

15:55opportunity to niche this down into Yeah. you know, a a niche. So, that could be a geography. It could be solid starts for Canadian babies. It could be, you know, you're feeding them maple syrup. I mean, my daughter can't eat um cashew nuts or pistachio nuts. So, you figure that out the hard way very early. And so, if there were I mean, basically, look at This is making a million a month and someone would niche down and they're okay with not making a million a month and making rather like 10K a month or 30K a month with a product like this that's probably not crazy difficult to

16:32maintain. I think that could be a pretty good business, especially if you don't have acid. I do think that this is something where parents do actually care about the quality. And so, if you were to niche down, you know, 10, 15, 20K a month for a product that has a built-in market of new babies being

16:52born. Um I think it's worth actually putting a lot of time and effort into making it a really solid no pun intended no pun intended product. I actually like that. I like the idea of niching down into like the little subcategories of general baby food. And [snorts] yeah, but you wouldn't make a million a month, but not everyone

17:11needs to make that, right? No, definitely not. So, um this is take number one. Actually, let's go to our next take. Um in the chat, I'm just curious. Give that a sip or a skip, so we know if you if you like if you like the takes. Um okay, actually, there's a bunch of

17:31really good takes here. Um we'll go to Sahil's take. Customer support is eating engineering. Do you know Do you understand what he means by this? I don't. I don't know what that means. So, I understand what it means cuz you know. Oh, cuz you're a genius. Can I try to just guess what I think it

17:54means? Yeah, guess guess what it What do you think he means by this? Customer support is eating engineering. Okay. So, um in the age where it's much easier to create little uh if if you have a product if you have a digital product, if you have an app, and there needs to be a change made to

18:12it, it used to be basically impossible. You'd have to collect all the information, relay that back to the engineering team, etc. etc. etc. That loop is really complicated. Whereas now, and we see this in our company as well, the people who are directly connected with the customers are actually able to make a lot of the changes that engineers used to have to make. And that's what I would guess it means, but maybe it

18:34doesn't. No, you're you're you're pretty much right. So, basically, the whole idea is in general, what you're seeing with AI is you know, people are going to have their own personal brains, personal second brains, but companies have their own second brains. And you're seeing just companies, small companies, big companies, uh AI-native companies basically put all their data, meeting notes, customer support, uh those things in MD files and places where LLMs could read it. So, uh what's happening is, you know, there's been a lot of talk about engineering loops ever since Peter from Open Claw and who else was talking about I think I think Karpathy Karpathy was also

19:26talking about loops. And they were they were talking about it with respect to just engineering, how you basically are going to do {slash} goal in Codex or whatever and you can basically say just like build on the startup build on the startup build on the startup. But I think what's actually more interesting about loops is less about just the engineering, but doing loops with customer support meeting

19:48engineerings meet meets engineerings. So, what do I mean by that? I mean that if you're getting 50 customer support pieces of data every single day, they're telling you what they like and what they don't like about your product. If you can create a loop that says every day look at those transcripts and every day prototype a

20:12feature that solves their problem. And give them a goal. The goal could be you know, DAU over MAU increases, retention increases, virality increases, revenue increases. That I think that that's the beginning of how people are like the future of startups is exactly what he's saying. Customer Customer support is eating engineering. That's what he means and I think that's a huge

20:35set. Massive gulp even. A massive like it's a sip so much of a sip that it kind of goes back you throw it into your lung and then you cough it out and then you gulp it. I can I actually add something to this? So, this is this is tangentially tangentially tangentially I'm Irish. I can't say the word. It's

20:54somewhat related. Okay. A lot of products if if I'm looking at a really interesting way to differentiate products that are in a market where everything is kind of similar. One of the things you can really do to stand out is by clarifying that your customer support is not AI and that you're going to be able to access a human 24/7. A company in Berlin here Trade Republic actually I don't know if they're German based or whatever. They did this entire billboard campaign all over Berlin about the fact that they do not use AI tools and it's a human every time when you call them. By the way,

21:31not sure how true that is. I had Well, we'll see. Um but if you also look at Basecamp, Basecamp's website is one of my favorite examples of that. They talk about the fact that it's humans, but not only that, they actually show the person who's in charge of the team talking on the website. And for me I'm like, "Okay, I want you to be using these AI tools to improve the product, but when I have a problem, I want to talk to a god damn human and not to some bot." And so for me I have it my pet peeve, you know, especially if you buy an expensive

22:03product. I buy you know, the Eight Sleep, the mattress. We love them. Everyone loves them. It's all good. If you have to deal with the support, no. No, it's not. I'd rather they stop developing the product and just leave it as it is and improve the support and get more humans in there. I honestly think that companies can use that as a massive

22:26massive marketing customer advantage. Just hey, by the way, you'll talk to a person when you call here. And then the other thing is cool, too. Yeah, [clears throat] I I totally agree. I think you I think people are willing to pay more like premium premium products that say you're going to speak to a human being I think is is a big is is is a big trend and I like I like

22:47that. Dude, can I Sorry, can I say one more thing? Of course. Can I say one more thing? You know, you know the trend of inshittification, right? You know the general idea. Everything gets worse. Like a company once it kind of owns the market, they basically kind of make their product worse and worse and worse and she had they cut corners because they know you have to use it. The perfect example of that is back in the day Amazon used to have the best customer support of all time. You're like instantly talking with someone. It's amazing. And then over

23:15time they're like, "We own the market. So now we're going to let a dog be the person on the other side of the screen just hitting the thing." So in shittification is something people talk about a lot. There was even this big advertising campaign. I think it was in Norway about how this is a thing that

23:28they don't want to have, whatever. Everyone talks about it. It's a really big common topic on X. Someone needs to do an advertising campaign around how their product is getting reversed in shittificated and that their one of their companies like motto's is that this is not what they're going to do. I think it is one of the things that for me kills brands faster than than anything else is when you're a big fan of a product, big fan of a brand, and then they're like, "Well, we have to grow it at all costs." Fair enough. But can you do it in a way that doesn't in shittify

24:03it? And then can you use that for your marketing? Big if true. You know what's sad about a lot of tech companies is a lot of tech companies have the worst customer support. Like because they're tech first, they they they they take it to the extreme. And I think like customer support has to have a human element.

24:26I agree. So and that's what that's my that's where I'm at. I'm I'm skipping I'm skipping fully 100% AI as customer support, but I'm sipping heavily. I'm gulping heavily this idea of human support. your cup. Yeah. [laughter] All right. We're going to go into the next take. We keep we keep it we keep it

24:46moving. Um Let's do uh Let's do this one. David Pan, he says, "Rest in peace to the two pizza team. Jeff Bezos gave us an all-time great metaphor. Keep the team small enough to feed with two pizzas. It shaped how engineering orgs got built for 20 plus years. He was right about small teams, still is, but in the AI era, two pizzas

25:14is too much pizza. What do you think? Well, first of all, I live in Europe, so two pizzas is probably much smaller than two American pizzas, but I get the point. I get the point. Uh we're talking about American pizzas. Well, obviously, the team size for making something like a piece of software right now can be as

25:33little as one. What I will say is if you do actually want to be able to make money from that product, you probably need to pair if you're the builder, you probably need to pair yourself with someone who's good at pitching and selling. And so, I do think one American pizza is probably enough for the modern AI-powered team. So, I'm going to give it a sip, and I also just think it's a cute uh tweet, ex post,

25:59whatever it is. So, I'm going to sip it. So, you're double sipping. Mhm. You're double sipping. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to disagree with this one, right? It's like I think when you're building a startup or any company, really, you have problems. You you encounter you have problems, and we always kind of say like, "Oh, if I just hired this one person, he he or she will solve this

26:22problem." Yeah. Like, what I've started to rewire my brain to do is before hiring someone, I'm like, "Could I create a loop that can actually get this done?" What are or I ask myself, "What are the jobs to be done for the person that I think is going to save me?" And then, I start by actually creating

26:42agents to actually solve those tasks. That's what That's what I've been doing. And I agree that like two two pizzas what he's basically saying like the two pizzas team is like probably 12 people. 12 people. are the pizzas? How big are these pizzas? They're big. It's It's America, you know? They're They're big pizzas. They're They're big pizzas. There's pepperoni on the pizzas. There's

27:04Pizzas they're like this size. Yeah. Like two two two three slices you're done. Exactly. No, we're talking about XL pizzas. We're talking giant giant giant pizzas. [laughter] So Yeah, I think I think I think David, he's the CTO of Cursor. Um he's right. I like it. Um and he got me He got me thinking about like a team can't be more than

27:36seven people now. Six people. I think um I I mean, look. He's right. I just the pizza size very different, you know? We're thinking about different sizes here. David. When When he's right, he's right. Okay, I saw this graph uh by Signal who's just an incredible follow on X. Um he says there's fewer places to relax and

28:05socialize. Um so look at these graphs. US establishments per 100,000 people. Bars and nightclubs down. Bowling alleys down. Marinas down. Movie theaters down. And it's First of all, it's just sad to see this. Like straight up sad, right? Like um So my my question to you is when you see this, what's your like societal reaction? And then also from a business perspective, is there opportunity to create nightclubs now? Is there opportunity to create bowling alleys, third spaces, movie theaters? You tell

28:39me. What's your reaction? Well, I literally literally started a business based on essentially this data. Um so first of all, sip to the max. I like sip for the fact that I think this is a huge problem. Um, a huge problem and a huge opportunity. I think that uh in general everyone's coming to the understanding that kind of loneliness and isolation and staying at home all day doom scroll scrolling is probably not good for your mental health. However, it's also extremely comfortable. I'm sitting right now in a

29:09very large office space for my business. I have absolutely There's no reason for me to have this space. Like log- logically everyone can work from home, the team is distributed, etc. etc. But for me it is very important to sort of maintain some sort of third spaces outside of my home because I start to I started just be get too comfortable and get too isolated and I'm not naturally the most social person. So I actually just don't end up meeting people then and I get weird and I get like I kind of come out of my apartment after 2 days and I'm like You know, I don't know if you know this

29:46feeling if you've been at home too long and haven't seen people and you like go to the grocery store and you can't really make eye contact with people. You kind of bump into people. Your balance is all off. You don't know how to interact and someone asks you a question you're like, "Hey!" And you're like, [laughter] "What what?"

30:00You're like, "What did you say to me?" "Who are you?" And I Yeah, I So this is really This is really like one of these trends that I think is very unfortunate. I think it ha- it's happening not just because it's happening especially because of convenience. Like COVID exploded this whole thing where now everything you know, whereas before you would go out and get groceries now you go whereas before you would you know, you you have to go out and meet people to date or maybe even bump into people and and interact with people to grow your career. Now it's like you go on LinkedIn and and cry. And I think that there's a

30:42huge I know that there's a huge opportunity for bringing people together in relaxed socialized spaces. I know it for a fact because I one of my companies is literally building a roaming one of those. And yeah, I'm I'm a huge fan of the topic. I want to solve it for myself, my friends, and also then make money from it. I think it's probably my it's probably a topic that I spend more

31:10time thinking about than anything else. So, like straw into the bag of whatever we're drinking and sip it till the whole bag goes inside the straw as well. So, I see in chat Riley the designer says, "I'm curious. Is there a similar trend in non-US countries or is this a US-only phenomenon?" This is not a US-only phenomenon. I can tell you like honestly, a lot of people that I know who used to be super social, we used to hang out, we

31:40used to do things. Now, I don't know. There's another part of this I don't want to really get into. It's actually a bit too probably going to be people on X go be crazy, but there are basically the combination of COVID, internet, certain drugs that you can now get more easy everywhere in in the world has created the perfect storm of I'm staying home

32:06all day and watching YouTube. And actually make it the week and actually make it two weeks and actually why would I do anything else? And that is very much across all of Europe as well. Um we basically met in a bar / nightclub. You know, so [laughter] you know, We would have never known each other if we we didn't know each other digitally, we only know know each other from

32:31meeting in real life. Exactly. Yeah. So, I agree that well, first of all, from a society perspective, this is just you just know it's bad. So, we all agree there. From a business perspective, I think there's a lot of opportunity. That being said, the problem with these physical businesses is it takes a lot of upfront money

32:54That's right. right? It's capital intensive. And you were you and I are tech guys, you know? So, we're we like asset-light, high-margin businesses, you know? Don't get mad at us, chat. I'm looking at you, chat. Don't get mad at us. That's Let's just I still think it's a worthy thing to pursue, though. And I'm using money from my high-margin businesses to fund this business. Like, I did I ran I ran something last year. It cost me 90 but $110,000 to do it. And we made $110,000, so it broke even. But I got to have the feeling of actually being able to do something about this problem. But then,

33:34the results of running it is that I got loads of more ideas for my money-making businesses. So, you can feed the results back into what you're doing that makes money. But yeah, it's super expensive. It's not a It's not like a sexy business. But if you especially There are people listening Greg, there are people listening to your show who have a lot of money. And if they would want to solve this problem, they can do it on a local level if they and and break even with it, have a lot of fun, make some amazing

34:02connections. It's worth It's a worthy thing to pursue. Yeah, I also think there's there's like a way to do it that it isn't super, super expensive. Like, that's the truth. Like, if you're going to go the traditional path about around opening a bowl bowling alley, like, yeah, you probably need to go to go to a bank, get a loan, do it, and that's going to stress you out. But there's ways that you can actually leverage digital first to fund a lot of what you're doing. So, if you have a X account or an Instagram account and you can pre-sell and sell memberships before you open it. I saw

34:40that there's someone who opened up like a 24/7 cafe or or something in New York City and he was selling 50 when people do this. I love when people do this. Yeah. So, I think I I I'm I'm skipping the traditional way to actually open some of these businesses, but I'm skipping Ala Max the idea of use the internet to and like use what you know about creating high margin asset-light businesses of the internet using distribution of the internet using AI on the internet to get you to to get those people into the physical locations in a business model that's a

35:19little smarter. And you already came up with you know, you have this I can't remember the actual acronym, but you have this general concept about building bootstrap businesses where it's audience first. Yeah. And that's what I did for my for my in-person business. I spent all of the time building an audience for the topic of doing creative my topic is doing creative work like painting in person, building all of that kind of stuff. And I built a very small audience for it and that audience is just very high intent for buying a product or for for coming to like a retreat or a physical location, but all of the pre-work was

35:59done digitally building an audience essentially using your content system for myself. So, it it it is digital first, but then the actual experience is in person. So, I'm looking at the chat. By the way, I'm glued to the chat. So, please please let's let's keep it firing. to read the chat. I'm Where Where's

36:20Where's the chat? The chat is it exists. It exists. And All right. Well, I don't need to see it. Uh I see uh Anton says, "What are your thoughts on VR arcades? Is that a Is that a big business opportunity?" I'm not interested in that personally. I it I just don't It's cool, but it's just not something

36:44that does anything for me personally. It's cool, but it's not cool. I don't know. Look, VR you know, I'm I am the type of person who I will buy the Steam frame if any of you guys know what that is. I am a gaming enthusiast. I'm going to buy all the stuff and try it out. Um no matter how good it is, I always find that it's not a very

37:05social tool. The motion sickness, even when it's getting better and better, still feels not great to some people. And the the thing just covering your vision um it's it's just not something that I'm personally You know, if I was going to go that direction, the way I go is like LAN parties with my friends.

37:25in person. Um I much prefer that that approach. And that's something I do personally. VR arcades. Arcades though, very interesting. There's no charming There is There are no charming arcades. There's just depressing arcades with like They look like shisha bars. That's the only thing you get. But there's [snorts] no charming, you know, nostalgic, enjoyable place to hang out

37:53at an arcade. That doesn't exist anyway. in Europe. And that's something I have been considering wasting money on creating. Here's my take on that. So, the same uh upmarket uh that movie theaters went. So, movie theaters were like dingy, you know, in the mid-2000s, I think a lot of movie theaters got really like dingy and gross and like kind of sucked. At the same time when DVD players were getting really popular and people just started and Netflix, and

38:23people just started watching at home. But then what ended up happening is there were a bunch of new brands in movie theaters that were just a bit more upmarket. So, all of a sudden you're able to have these bigger seats. All of a sudden you're able to drink wine. All of a sudden you had really good service. And you'd pay extra for it, but you know, there were a bunch of brands um like Alamo um Draft House and and others that came in and just absolutely crushed it. Um a lot of them were funded by private equity, I think. I think that

38:52same model could be applied to arcades. Arcades were awesome for a while. Literally like '70s, '80s, '90s. Um and I think you and then the 2000s like people started getting home devices. The same sort of thing. Then they started getting digi lot dingy and so a lot of them closing. So, I think there's an opportunity to do like a premium arcade meets LAN party focused on bringing people together, high-quality food, you know, drinks, things like that. Um

39:26huge sip idea. I really like it. Fantastic. Fantastic. That's fantastic. Yeah, that's a really cool one. Basically, yeah, you look at anything where the the the use of it moved from having to be in a dedicated place to being in your home. Yeah. And think about well, what would be the thing that would actually make people want to leave their home for it? Like that it's an event, that it's something that feels good. I actually have a secret. I have a secret thing that I use for coming up with business ideas. And I am hoping basically no one does anything with this piece of information, but I'm curious

40:01what you do with it, Greg. Or I'm curious what you think about this. When I'm thinking about a new business, one thing I think to think back to is when I was in college, you can also say high school. When I was in college, what what what were like some of the things that just that I feel extremely

40:17nostalgic for. And one of the things that came to my mind is in a lot of college campuses, there's like a cafe or a place where everyone eats, and there's always just loads of couches and everyone hangs out and just it's a hangout area. And for me, I used elements of this just this vibe, this feeling of people not having to plan, not having to say, "Oh,

40:40I'm going to be here at this time." People just end up in that central space and hang out. I look at this and think about how can I recreate elements of this as a business in the real world? There's an example of it. It's not my business. I wish it was. In if anyone wants to just look at an example of how this can work in real life, there's a cafe in Oslo called Vogel. I think it's called Vogel, v o g l e. There's one in Japan as well, in Tokyo. And it it just has that exact feeling. It has that exact vibe. It's always full all day, all night. It goes

41:14from being a cafe into a bar at night. And this is the place when I came back to Berlin, I was like, "If I at some point get stupid enough, I am going [clears throat] to recreate that exact feeling here somewhere in Berlin." And that's something which I'm always looking for. It's like, "What's something that when you walk in, you feel, 'Oh man, this is just like that feeling.' And think about is there a way to recreate that? Is there Is that

41:39something that's missing where you live? And also maybe you will lose all your money trying it, but we'll see. I love the idea. I just I don't I don't know, it's a question. I don't know if it's full you're fully able to recreate that feeling. No, no, no. Or or or you're just going to be chasing

41:57that high for the rest of your life. Um Potentially, yes. But I know what you mean. Like I I was thinking about that, too. Like what while you're talking, I was thinking about like the cafeteria, like the school cafeteria, and like, you know, there's certain friends are playing cards and certain friends are eating and then you know they're all there and it feels It's like, "What's up, everyone?" Like, you know everyone

42:19and it's such a good feeling, right? You plan it. You got to plan You're not planning it, you're just You're just there, I think. I get pieces of that. Like, there's some, you know, communities I'm a part of where I get pieces of that, but it's not it's not as good as it was with with school. Um

42:37JC, I want to move on to the next take. Um oops. got to get you guys down. Here we go. Bookmarks. So, let's see what we can do here. Um Okay, I'm going to do a Jason Fried one cuz I know you're a Jason Jason Jason Fried, co-founder of 37signals, says, "Bragging about how much software you're shipping with AI is like holding down the shutter button and bragging

43:11about how many photos you took." I was going to say, "What do you think about this?" but then I just noticed you wrote, "Haha, love [laughter] this." Oh, yeah, I already commented on it. Yeah. [gasps] Honestly, everything Jason Fried says I It's always I've never I've never seen a take by Jason that I didn't wholeheartedly agree with, so

43:34yes. Yeah. So, I I think my take on this is there's so much mind share that people spend on building products with AI, but there's so little mind share that people spend on marketing software with AI. [laughter] Dude. This is this My This is my nightmare peeve. Yeah. You know the amount that Do you know the

44:02amount You probably do. Do you know some very wealthy CEOs who have fallen into the I'm building. I'm building. I'm making or I'm just I'm making endless systems. It's just all about the systems. And then you're you're like, oh cool. So like you you know, you've been doing this for like 4 or 5 months. Like how's the revenue? Oh yeah, we're not it's not going so good right now because Like yeah, you're you're no longer running your business. You're just

44:29making weird things now. Like you forgot your job as a CEO. I honestly think a lot of CEOs I know, I know everyone talks about AI psychosis. No, AI is making them forget what their job was. And now they're doing like And And I can't remember who said this. Someone someone pointed this out. Now instead of a CEO doing work that's like worth 5K an hour, they're doing the work that's worth like $5 an hour. Like I'm going to go get my AI tool to go through all of these transcripts and find the summary for the last 10 meetings I was in. Who cares? the You're not What are

45:06you going to do with it? It's Yeah, it's it's a thing. It's a It's a very big sip to the max. Sip to the max, chat. We're looking at you. Dropping emoji, juice box emoji if you sip it. Death emoji if you don't. If you think it's a cold take. Uh I agree. I think um I think this is a trend that's only be beginning. I think a lot of people are starting to realize this. So,

45:32um let's see. Uh I really like this one. So, uh Jess says, "Building a company in 2026 is two jobs. One, building the product. Two, building the system that builds the product. Every company is now a software company. Even if the product isn't software, the company is. What do you think about that?" Is that going to be my first non-sip?

46:00Wow. Yeah, I'm not I'm I can't be sipping on that now. So, obviously like you can read that anyway you want and and say yeah, it makes sense, but I think it would give if I were [clears throat] thinking about entrepreneurs coming into the market, I think this would probably give the wrong impression and I think it would even make the the situation worse that a lot of people are in, which is they believe that and I literally just posted before we went live. If if you look at what I literally just posted before I went live, you'll see the exact

46:33thing I mean. I think that company entrepreneurs are getting obsessed with systems to the point where they forget that the job of a CEO and an entrepreneur is to is to get people to know about your thing. So, I don't really agree with this one. I think But isn't the counter to isn't the counter to that you need to build a system around like a marketing system for example around getting your product

47:01seen? I wouldn't agree. I personally would say that you can up it depends where you want to get to. Up until about 10 million revenue, your company can be pure chaos, have almost no systems, be falling apart, be held together by sticks and spit, and it will still work. Whereas if you have perfect systems and everything is you know, you've got your perfect system for making content and everything, but you as the CEO are not necessarily focused or doing the right things when it comes to you know, content creation or how you promote your company, then the systems are all there for basically nothing. So, I'm more of a

47:37fan of building systems only when starts to break horribly. I'm not a fan of making systems before you desperately need them. I'm very much a profit first, revenue first CEO. I want to see I want to see the whole thing fall apart first before I fix it. So, you What you're saying is systems

47:59are luxury. Yes. Basically. action. Yeah. And get a COO to do like if your business is when your business is making so much money and everything's falling apart, hire a really great operator um or even better hire someone who can use these uh really amazing AI tools to build out your systems. I do think that it's possible for c- company owners small business owners can get completely lost in the system

48:28building. And as you know, Greg, cuz you talk about it this all the time, building a product basically means nothing if you're not able to market it. It would be like It would be like your show except you don't put it on YouTube. You just like show it to me [laughter] every week. Wow, and you've got this amazing system to send it to me every week and I'm like, "Oh, cool. That's

48:50great." Okay, but you must admit that the right system slaps. You get it you get the right system absolutely slaps and I love I love when all that stuff works. I just want to like encourage people to not start there. Yeah. Well, you're you have a lot of people who agree with you. I see Justin says in chat, "Yes, I get stuck building systems before putting anything out." Um I think a lot of people Yeah, I think a lot of people do get stuck. So, I'll give I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. I do think that there's something interesting though about um once you've built

49:30you're built you know, you're building a product and you're building a company, having some systems in place so that you remain consistent, so that you're moving towards a goal, Yeah. um you know, what I talked about with loops before for example, like SEO loops, ad loops, things like that, you know, helps. And so Those are actionable. Those loops are actually actionable things that have results. I think it also depends on how long you how long it takes to see the results. The thing you're the things you're talking about, you can get you can see whether it's working within the space of 1 or 2 weeks. I think where a

50:04lot of people fall into the hole is like I'm going to spend the next 3 months building a crazy system to get all my transcripts summarized for me and then every morning when I'm on the toilet, I'll get a text message from my AI bot telling me what my top priority for the last month was and it's like Yeah, you

50:20don't need that. All right, let's let's move. thought about that topic. The person who posted it, I'm sure is much smarter than me. I really don't want to say negative things about anyone. It's just was something that bro. It's too late. You already did. You I agree. It's good. Systems are good. [laughter] Okay, let's let's do maybe three three

50:39more takes. Um my friend Nick says, I've recently changed my mind on this. I used to think that one agent is all you need. In fact, I still believe one agent is all you need to start. But, the minute you start getting into hundreds of skills and automations that need to run, it gets to a point where it's painfully obvious that you need specialized role-based sub-agents that

51:03own entire domains in your org. Each with its own computer. His company's called Orgo, so he's saying Orgo. Um so that you limit blast radius when things go wrong. Managing one agent with a thousand different skills and automations is just a nightmare. And he's he's quote retweeting Sahil said one agent is all you need. So, the question is do you need one agent or do you need a

51:28lot of agents? Any thoughts? So, I will just say that I am absolutely not the expert here on this and I don't have I have like if if we're looking at agents, automations running in the background, I think we have like three across the whole of my company. Um may- maybe I'm underselling it. Maybe

51:47it's like three or four. Definitely separate agents for us. The reason is when something so for example, really simple of exa- example of this is we have sort of like a SEO agent doing a couple of things in the background and we're using the same agent to sort of deliver the reports around what's happening. And that breaks very regularly and when it breaks, you're not just fixing the reporting, you're fixing so many things at the same time and everything gets muddled up. So even though I'm definitely not someone who really understands the depth of this and I'm not the run one running this at my company,

52:27we run them separately and actually have separate computers for three of them. So that's just what we're doing. I couldn't agree more with Nick. I think that things break when you have one agent doing a lot of things and I think you start seeing magic happen when you give these, as he calls it, specialized

52:49role-based sub-agents that own domains. Um, now he says entire domains. So where I kind of like skip is the word entire. To me, the domains aren't huge domains. They're very, very small little things. An example, YouTube thumbnail person, you know? Um, that's like a pretty small uh, if you run a marketing org, YouTube thumbnails is like a a p- ainfully small, like maybe 0.1% of the dom- you know, whole domain. So I think that's that to me, as of now, as of doing this live stream, uh, you need a lot you need it needs to be specialized role-based. That being said, going back to what we talked about with

53:32systems and stuff like that and over optimizing, don't over optimize, you know? Uh, start small. I still don't You know the YouTube thumbnail thing and you just said it really throw away. I still haven't figured out how to make an agent I can't I can't solve the YouTube thumbnail thing at all. Please help me. Send me a video. I need to Somebody fix

53:54this for me. I'll help you. I'll help you. It's Thank you. I got you. I got you. Maybe we'll do a live. Okay, let's do let's do um a few more. So my friend Internet Vin says so many things are shifting at the same time. It's difficult to process and understand what to do, but at the same time it's so inspiring. Only five likes. What do you

54:20What do you think of this? Oh my god. I don't know how this is for you, but and for the the people listening, I kind of phase in and out of the whole uh AI thing. Like as you've seen with me, sometimes I'm locked in and super excited. And then I'll go for like six, seven, eight months where I don't even use one of the AI tools or or barely even touch it. And then something will bring me back. And so for me I went I had a phase where I was like constant FOMO and I was like, "Oh my god, there's a new model every week." And you know,

54:50there there's always there's always something crazy going on. And now I think now that we've been in this sort of exponential curve of the stuff just getting faster and faster for like two years now, I've kind of calmed down a bit where I'm like it's all so fine if I like for example with Fable I asked you I text I sent a This is a perfect example. I sent a text message to Greg like two weeks ago and I was like, "Dude, what's Fable?" Just before it got banned. I was like, "What's this Fable

55:21thing? Should I actually care about it?" Any AI questions I ever have I just message Greg. And he's like, "Dude, it's really good." Then it got banned. So I could didn't even get to use it. And so then I forgot about everything for a while. Then it came back. And the last like couple of days I've been obsessed and having a lot of fun and like catching up and I watched the open AI event last night and I want to see

55:41everything and I'm consuming. And honestly, the usual pattern for me is in about 2 weeks I won't care anymore. But it's probably less so for you because that's your job. So for me, I'm just in and out and I barely I'm less FOMO and I'm less stressed about trying to trying to process it. And I'm just treating it like if it's important enough, it'll flow into my brain and I'm still not noticing anyone actually being able to use the majority of people like I said are getting locked into these systems building uh loops and not being able to actually make revenue from these

56:15tools. So it's not really it's not really affecting me yet, but I'm definitely at the point where I'm like, "Oh wow, it's it's really this stuff is really good now." So I'm inspired mostly. To me, it's a spectrum. So on one end you have people who basically don't know anything about AI, maybe use chat GPT, but are basically like late adopters. On the other end of the spectrum, you have the I'll call them the permanent underclass people. So the people who are afraid of becoming in the permanent underclass, which by the way, whole separate rant. I I don't even I I I don't believe in in

56:56that whole you know, narrative that that people are saying around escape the permanent underclass, but those people I think are like the most stressed because they're like, "I don't want to be in the permanent underclass." First of all, the word permanent is in there. It's it's it's like Something is going to hell. It's like you're going [laughter] It's even worse cuz it's like hell on earth. You know? It's hell on earth and

57:22it's like I got to escape that, right? Um that's like a prison sentence. It's a lifelong prison sentence. I got to escape that. I need to know know you know, this model came out and that model came out and I needed use this for that and that for this. But I think there's a happy medium around like weekly, I think it's important to understand what what happened at this point. Because I think that the opportunity right now to use some of these tools and the arbitrage that exists also in using these tools to deliver value to customers uh and creating high-margin businesses is just out of control right now. I think

58:01it's out of control and I think for a lot of people who and it's sort of one of the reasons why I wanted to do these live streams is like I don't think there's enough live shows talking about uh how to actually do this. Like how do you actually like what are the what do I need to pay

58:19attention to? What are the tools? Why do I need to care about them? How should I use them? What is fluff? What is not fluff? And so I think that, you know, to Vin's point, it's difficult to process and understand what to do is because there's a fire hose. There's an absolute fire hose of tools and updates. Um but the reality is there's only like two things you should care about per week,

58:43you know? Yes. Like right? be listening to your podcast, obviously, once a week and watching this live show. The end. The end. But you know what? The the there people say this is this has never happened before, blah blah blah. There is a perfect analogy for this moment that we're having right now and it's Facebook ads. Facebook ads when we started doing Facebook ads at my company, I think it was 2016, we were already late when it came to the general world of Facebook ads, but we were essentially first when it came to our niche. And Facebook ads allowed us to essentially print money for years

59:21until the rest of our niche figured out what was going on. And so I look at this in the same way where it's probably not that you have to know you have to be an AI expert, you know, immediately as soon as a new model comes out, but just being somewhat informed about what's going on and able to use the tools more than them just being a search for you like a Google search like being able to use them in a slightly more nuanced way. For me, I'm viewing this as the same feeling as Google Ads sorry, Facebook Ads where right now this is actually quite cheap

59:59and the arbitrage you get from it the ROI you can get from it is quite amazing and I just can imagine that, you know, two years from now, not only will the tools that are really good be very expensive, but also everyone will just doing the same thing. I mean, an example of that is right now if you're in a niche that's if you're if you're the only person in your niche using AI tools for your SEO you're going to win SEO. Like that's a that's something I can 100% promise you from from direct experience of my own businesses. If you're the only one who's and by the way, you don't have to be a

1:00:35crazy expert, but if you're the only one who's doing it and let's say you run a tire company or something. If you're the only tire company in New York City using Fable this week, you're probably going to get some form of advantage for a while and I think that's true. But I don't I also agree with you that the extreme fear-mongering and permanent underclass stuff is just crazy. So I think it is a combination of there are advantages to be had. It's stupid to think there isn't and it would be ignorant to just say it's all bull crap, but you also can just stop for a couple of

1:01:14months and chill out or just keep up lightly each week by listening to Greg Eisenberg's podcast. He didn't actually tell me to say this. I'm just messing with them. Um and you can also be happy at the same time. You don't have to become some sort of demon obsessing about this stuff. Don't be a demon. Do you be? [clears throat] Did you sip

1:01:33that one or not? I I sipped it big time. Like I think I think a lot of people are feeling this, so I feel I felt like it was important to say, you know what I mean? Um So, let's uh you want to do one or two more? Dude, I'm chill. I can do a few more.

1:01:56I'm good. this one? This is how This is how rich This is how rich I want to be. And then you have a This is This is by J Ice Cream Jonathan Corney. Um he says, "This is this, {comma} this is how rich I want to be. Studied the Slinky for 52 days straight." Uh

1:02:18Yeah. YouTube. I saw this thumbnail. Studied the Slinky for 52 days straight. And I was I actually watched the video because I was like, "What the hell is this?" And this is I'm sure everybody knows who this uh is like the most famous YouTuber of all time. Um and for me when I saw this in a joking way and a serious way, I was like, "I want to be so rich that all I or like this is exactly how rich I want to be. It doesn't need to be more than that. Doesn't need to be less than that that I could spend 52 days learning the Slinky and everything's still all

1:02:54financially [snorts] good. So, that's for me that's my definition right there when people ask like, 'What's your you know um um the guy who wrote uh what's it? Ramit Sethi. He's like, 'What's your rich life?' My rich life is studying the Slinky for 52 days. That's it for me." You know you've made it when you've studied the Slinky for 52 days straight and you can do that. What's really cool about PewDiePie is I I'm pretty sure he like retired off YouTube, right? He was like the number one YouTuber and then he's like, "I'm moving to Japan and I'm going to start a family and I I'm out." He like got out. And then he

1:03:30occasionally vlogs now. Uh but uh Definitely, yeah. He's definitely one of the It's like the opposite, I guess, of the American way of getting rich and famous, where you kind of keep going up and up and up and it never stops. Whereas, I think the cuz he's Swedish, he was living in the UK. The European way is kind of you just you're just like, "I'm kind of done now, and so now I'm just going to do what I would like to do. And I I'm a big proponent I I am a European, so obviously I just feel that way. That's more European? I had no idea that you were

1:04:05European. I thought you were from the Midwest. Yes, exactly. That's what you thought. But yeah, I I'm Dude, I am I I look at PewDiePie's videos these days. My fiance and I watch them, and we're like, "Yeah, that's that level of that level of wealth." Cool. Yeah, he's a cool he's cool. I sip this

1:04:24vibe highly. Um so, respects PewDiePie. Uh respects respect where respect is due. I got to learn that slinky. Yeah, let's get that let's get that slinky money. Um Benji Taylor, who I think is now the head of design of Axe, he says, "I generally view any company spending more time on marketing stunts than product as

1:04:51a huge anti-signal." This is actually why why I really like this is that it's like the it brings the nuance to the conversation of you have to promote your product. The CEO has part of their job is you have to promote it. But marketing stunts, I feel are They're one of these things which kind of fall into this other area of where usually people like hire a marketing agency separately, spend tons of money on it just to do some big thing that Yeah, the marketing stunts I I don't know if I would view it like an anti-signal, but they are to me when I see a really big marketing

1:05:33push for a product that's really polished and really kind of almost corporatized, I do get suspicious that this thing is maybe not going to actually survive in the real market. Um, you know, sometimes it's just about uh you've seen this loads of times. Like sometimes it's just a startup buying a domain name for like $10 million and and that's the marketing stunt. And then

1:05:55I'm like, I don't know about this now. I'm a little bit hmm, you know? Thoughts on Red Bull? Perhaps the only exception to the rule, but their marketing is also closely tied to the product offering, and the product is already massively successful. Yeah, I mean Red Bull is just it's Red Bull is a true outlier, and often

1:06:15you just can't use outliers as examples. Whatever happened with the Friend AI necklace? Haven't seen anything about it for a while. Didn't he spend over a million on marketing? Okay, so that would be an example of a launch video that was very expensive, a domain name that was very expensive. Um, I don't want to I really don't want

1:06:35to take a crap on people's businesses. It's hard to run a business, but I would personally say that when I see a big marketing stunt from a company that I do feel unless the company's already very successful. For example, you know, Sony, they did this Sony Bravia ad in San Francisco where they dropped all the balls down the hill, and it was like a

1:06:56really big moment on the internet. Yeah, but it's Sony, you know, it's probably fine. It's fine for them to do that. But you have like a new startup that's getting loads of buzz, a buzzy startup. I don't know, man. I feel like the buzzy stuff almost always just doesn't survive. You know what I mean? you're going zero to one and what I mean by zero to one, I mean zero to some level of product market fit, the stunt isn't [clears throat] the thing that's going to get you there,

1:07:25realistically. 100%. The stunt is something that is fuel to the fire. Like, once you have something going and you you have the luxury of being able to experiment a lot more, yes, okay, fine. Do some marketing stunts. But, if you're trying to get you know, one or two channels working on to and and and get people to your product and and see if they retain and see if they share, you don't need a marketing stunt. You

1:07:54really don't. And I This is This is I know it's hard to be nuanced on the internet, but a lot of people will look at this and they'll say, "Yes, marketing is bad. You should just focus on the product." This is not I believe also what Benji is trying to say. If you think about some of the most successful products on the planet, look at something where you would think, "Oh, there was no marketing. There was no Like, Facebook or something. It all happened in the background." And Mark is also very awkward. He wouldn't have been out there. Or even like, Sam Altman with Open AI. You think, "Oh, yeah, well,

1:08:28they were just building. It was a lab." These people running these companies are crazy good at selling what they have, promoting what they have, and getting more investors, and getting people excited about stuff. That's what their job is. They're going to the VC funds. They're going and collecting the money by pitching, by the way. You just don't happen to see these pitches posted on Twitter or whatever. And so, I still need people to understand that even when a product does seem like it kind of organically grew and it was just the product itself that made headways, and it wasn't anything to do with no

1:09:05marketing happened. Marketing is just a very kind of general word for that there was probably someone in that company whose job was to let other people know that this thing existed, or else no one would have ever known it existed. Like Slack, do you remember Slack in the very beginning? Like I found out about Slack because I was reading The Verge, and there was a huge piece on it. There was a huge piece about Slack on The Verge. I was at a design conference in New York. The CEO of Slack was on stage talking about making this product. And it's like,

1:09:39yeah, that's what this person's job is. They're the promoter of the business. It's not just that these products just like click and now that they explode. Most of the time there's still someone being the promoter. But marketing stunts, anti-sip. But what this guy said, yes, sip. Yes, sip. I agree. I also I really like this reply by Morgan Linton. I see high

1:09:59signal as companies hiring great people. I feel like that's like the greatest signal. Um so I do agree with that. When I see someone who I really respect I mean, Benji's an example of that. Like he he's a friend of mine, and when I saw he's going to X, I was like, "Whoa, that's like that's really really cool." You know, he's a founder, and he's going to join a company. So um agreed agreed on

1:10:21this. I definitely agree. I think I agree, and I just hope that people understand the nuance of it. Because you know the thing I think that Silicon Valley view is that marketing bad. Marketing bad, building product good. But they're basically teaching a lie because their founders spend all day on podcasts promoting their companies. You know, they're like, "Yeah, well, you know, you know, okay, Elon's a build Elon's a builder." I don't think I've ever seen a podcast without Elon Musk in it. You know what I mean? It's He His job as part of his company is also to promote his businesses and that's part of that's

1:11:01part of the role and the the job of being a CEO. People are probably sick of me saying this. I'm going to stop repeating myself now. I mean, I'm not I'm not I like it. You're job promoter. [laughter] Um what do you think? Uh me? Yeah, what did you think of the the first ever Sip Live? Chat, what did you

1:11:21think of the first ever Sip Live? Um not sure how long how many of these we're going to do, but having fun while doing it. I I certainly enjoyed myself. What did you what did you think, JC? I really enjoyed it. I mean, I'm complete Greg sees the chat, I think. I'm completely isolated just looking at Greg on the screen here. As you can see, I'm not like as up-to-date on things as Greg. So, for me it's kind of fun to just be looking at these things for the

1:11:47first time and being like, "Oh, okay. That sounds really interesting." And I mean, I personally enjoyed it a lot. I have no idea what the be honest. You can tell me like, "Hey, I this is this is the worst hour I've had this week. I I Yeah. thing that I've had to be You know what I would actually have loved? I would

1:12:05love to also react to uh video clips. There was a there's there's some clips that um I was watching today on Twitter X and I was like I I would like to I would like to react to clips as well because there's just so so much good stuff out there. All right. Yeah, I agree. I mean I'll bring some clips next time and see

1:12:27what you say. See what you say. we should have something to really sip. Right. Oh, I have um It's funny you were mentioning LAN parties. So, this Do you know what this is? Oh. No. This was a ball. It's called Balls. And and it it was a popular drink in the LAN party era of the mid-2000s. So, if you went to a gaming LAN party in North America between 2003 to 2008, you were drinking

1:13:01balls. [laughter] Okay, in Ireland we were drinking black tea and beer. But, uh fair enough. What So, were you a Halo man or Counter-Strike or what was your What were you playing at LAN parties or what were you I was Halo Halo 1, Halo 2, GoldenEye, which was before that. Those were sort of my LAN party things. Although, GoldenEye I

1:13:26think was just on the N64. I was a Counter-Strike guy. Counter-Strike. Okay, yeah, I knew it. Yeah. I like I like the idea of like um the strategies around Counter-Strike and the first-person shorter shooter aspect of it. And it was also like the number one first-person shooter at the time. Um so, I I liked it. Um It was all Halo man. It was all Halo for

1:13:51me and my friends. So, you used to play on Xbox? Yeah, so we I convinced all of my friends to get Xboxes. So, we're all at my parents' house. It was I think 16 player LAN 16 players was the max for Halo uh 2. Halo 1 and Halo 2 with LAN parties. And so, we had four Xboxes with bedsheets in between the screens so you

1:14:10couldn't see the other person's screen. It was amazing. Imagine the smell of that room. It was bad. smell it from here. Take me back Take me back to the smell of that room. If anyone knows the reference. Um in the chat it says it would be very appreciated if you can reply [clears throat] to our comments. We look

1:14:33We look up to you. You have experience. We are not big, but hope next time you reply to us. I try to reply to some of the comments. Um but I happily reply. I mean, I just opened the YouTube comments now. Um I'm happy like I mean next time or whenever you want I'm like I'm easy. I don't have anything to do. I can sit here all day and chat. So

1:14:55Yeah. You know what we should do? We should turn it into like one of those longer shows. Like I was I was chatting with your producer earlier and I was talking about some of the shows that I watch. Sometimes they're like 3 and 1/2 hours long. We should do that. I'm up for that. I'm down. I'm down. I don't need to pee or anything. I'll just sit here and

1:15:13You hold it in. Just hold it in. The longer you This is a scientific fact to everyone listening. The longer you hold the pee in, the more it just goes into your blood and then you don't need to pee. Science. Don't Google it. Then you do have blood uh pee instead of blood, but

1:15:30that's fine. Yeah, he's not a doctor. He's a shrimp millionaire, okay, everyone? Did anyone ask in the comments what the shrimp millionaire No. It says it on my actual It says it on my thing, okay? Nice. Yeah, no one said anything. They just assume that you're just a shrimp millionaire. A shrimp millionaire? I guess people think I run like shrimp ships or something and then they're like why did you get this guy on to talk about AI

1:15:55stuff? Okay, I'm going to answer a few questions from the chat. Let's do it. Um What business opportunities can one do for seniors in Canada for a person just starting out in the tech space? Um Well uh One thing you can do is like connecting young people to seniors. Um Like a dating kind of situation you

1:16:22mean? Not a dating thing. More More of like If you're for example in a senior home senior living home. Like the reality is you don't want to hang out with seniors all day. Like Speak for yourself. I'm speaking for myself. I'm speaking for myself. I think that you know these people want younger people to hang out

1:16:43with. Um they want events and stuff like that. I think there's opportunities there. Um I think these people also want to learn about AI, too. Like they want to understand what ChatGPT is. Like I bet you can go to a senior living facility and say, "Hey, pay me $50 a person and you know, and I'll teach them for 30 minutes how to use ChatGPT or something like that." Um there's also like AI optimization and transformation for

1:17:12senior living facilities. So, [clears throat] I think there's a lot there. Those are the three that come to mind. Anything that comes to your mind, Jason? I'll be 100% honest when when the question first came in and when you were talking, all I could think of I couldn't think of anything and I was like, "I'm just going to skip this." But actually what you said it so one of the events that I ran this year, um the age range of the event was

1:17:36almost nobody was below 50. Like almost nobody. I know senior is not 50, but that's just to to not the age range I thought would be purchasing things that I'm selling. And I realized that a lot of people and and what some people said to me in this age range, 50 plus, was like, "Yeah, people don't really make stuff People don't make cool stuff for us. It's all like we go on cruises, you know, we do There's like very specific things that people in our age range are supposed to do." And actually I think it's really a nice and heart-warm-warming thing that you said, this idea of actually maybe

1:18:13people in that age range and and for example, like my mom is like 68 and she's using these tools and asking me questions about them all the time and really interested in them. And I think it is a shame that a lot of this stuff is just targeted at the very, very young audience, considering the entire world is getting much, much older now. So, actually I think that's a very lovely idea where you look at what are the what are the things that are being taught like by to mainly to younger people and would there be a way to make that into an experience that people you know people

1:18:51who are much older would actually enjoy and it's also customized to them. So for example, they might not want to do a virtual version of it. They might not want to sit down for 6 hours to learn something. Maybe there's a way to do it that's more interesting. Actually, I really think that's actually very nice thought but maybe the answer to the question is why don't you just not consider them to be a different type of person and also

1:19:16advertise to them. So I spent some time actually working on products for older adults and one of the biggest insights I had was that older adults don't see themselves as older adults. So people who create products for older adults in the marketing material, they have like actors and actresses that are have white hair and who have tons of wrinkles and who don't look really good

1:19:44and stuff like that. They don't see themselves like that. They they you know so it you know what we what you can do is you could and set let's say you're targeting 65 plus like have 45 year olds and 50 year olds and 55 year olds there. Um have them you know smiling like these are it's sort of unfortunate that the smartest people in tech build products

1:20:10for like Gen Z and millennials. Yeah. Cuz it I just believe that one of the greatest underserved markets is products for older adults that make them happier and healthier. Um and I think that the missing link that a lot of people have when they're actually creating these products is don't position them as like old people

1:20:32products. Please don't. Don't. Okay, I'm going to go into chat. Sorry, sorry. Can I just based on what you said there? I think a lot of people listening to your podcast, they are entrepreneurs. They want to start businesses. They want to grow their businesses. I think one of the things that Silicon Valley does, which is not great, is that it makes you think that the only type of business that you can build is a crazy scale up

1:20:57that has to make millions. If you were able to build something that just makes five or six K per month and it covers all of your expenses plus, you know, some profit and for for whatever you need, looking at whatever salary you need, maybe you need to make 120 K a year, then you can actually start considering business models that are just a lot easier and more enjoyable that don't have to be super complicated. And if you think about like, okay, I'm just going to focus, if you're thinking about seniors in Canada, don't even start

1:21:31there. I'm going to think about the seniors in my city and what I can do here. And if I feel like I want to have more, then I'll expand more, but it doesn't always have to be this massive vision, mission, and values, huge statement. I can tell you most of my businesses are just No, they have no vision statement, no mission, nothing. It's just a small thing that makes some money and I don't need it to be anything else. And I think the the senior thing and the the thing you said, you know, they don't see themselves as older people, but being able to do something for a

1:22:09small group of people first, not making it into some crazy thing, um it's just so much more relaxing to start a business like this. More comments. What's good, Unk? Uh we've got uh Are we Unks? We're Unks. We have someone saying uh uh I love shrimp. So, we got that. Um Greg, do you review creator tools? We

1:22:35created a tool for hooks. Uh could be cool in the future to review actual tools on this live stream. Um and that's about it. I think we can end the stream and and and and make it short and sweet. What do you think? I think we should just awkwardly stay here all night and uh never never stop.

1:23:02No, I'm good. If this has been remotely interesting, please like, comment, reply, repost, do something so we know to do this again. I don't know if this is fun for other people and useful for other people. I hope it is. This is We're We're learning as we go in real time um and we'll be sharing sharing what we

1:23:29learn in real time. Um thank you all for spending time with us. This is an incredibly exciting time to be on the timeline, to being a great to agreeing with things, to disagreeing with things, to trying things, to getting your hands dirty. So, I have the utmost respect for anyone who's out there building, doing, having fun, and uh you know, I'll see you I'll see you on the next one. Thank you, Jonathan J Ice Cream,

1:24:01uh for joining me as my co-host today. And I'll sip to you. Bye, everybody. Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

1:24:52Mhm.