From $20k to $80k MRR in 18 Months: The Story of Fomo – Justin Mares – MicroConf Growth 2018

0:00[Music] [Applause]

0:13hey everybody how's everybody doing good so before I jump into the meat of the talk could I get a quick show of hands just to get a sense of like how many of you all are running a SAS business in the attend 25k a month range cool what about sub-10 awesome and then like north of 100 full set so awesome so quick bio so I'm Justin Maris I co-authored a book that some of you may have heard of called traction in that book we basically talked about how we saw most startups failing not because they couldn't build a good product but because they didn't know how to get

0:54traction and so we introduced something that we called the bullseye framework which was a multi step process to figure out like what traction channels what is gonna work for you to grow your business so outside of traction I was also the former director of revenue for exceptional software so in 2013 we were required by Rackspace for north of 10 million dollars it was a totally bootstrapped software business we basically bought three different software companies combined them into a portfolio and then grew that portfolio from about 40k to about 250 K in m RR at the time we sold it and now I am the co-founder of a business called FOMO so

1:33also throughout the talk feel free to tweet at me I'm at JW mayor's on Twitter I have lots of different materials and things that I would be happy to share with you that I'll mention as we go through this so the FOMO story if you check it out use FOMO calm it's a social proof app that boosts conversion rates so what does that mean so if you see right here FOMO is this little notification that you may have noticed on some EECOM sites on hotels calm some of these other sites that say you know someone took this action this time ago it's a way and in this case you can see

2:08you know someone bought this product about five hours ago now what that does is it really drives up your conversion rate and makes because it makes your website kind of come alive like you visit the site you're no going you know oh this is a site that I have no idea if anyone uses it buys it whatever and so when I saw that tool I thought it was pretty incredible before we rebranded it to FOMO it was an app on Shopify called notify now I was doing about 18 K month and so my co-founder and I Ryan we approached the owner we were looking at moving my

2:41e-commerce business off of Shopify and just said hey you know this tool has really really worked for us are you guys planning on building any other integrations are you porting it over to Magento or any of these things and after an extended conversation basically found out that the the founder was recently married wanted to take a year to travel the world and didn't want to really deal with the hassles of building and growing his software business I mean he had been in it for two and a half years and was just kind of burned out and so we ended up buying the business which I would

3:11love to talk about if any of you guys have questions we sell our financed it did it all with our own money and did a couple other interesting things that might be helpful for some of you looking at doing the same thing and basically rebranded it to FOMO so this is the the cartoon version of the team that works on FOMO today we bought it and like I said we did it after seeing this massive conversion boost after installing it and caught on kettle and fire which is my other EECOM company and so we saw conversions go up roughly 20 percent which for us was a really meaningful and

3:42material lift in revenue and so that's why we kind of went after it now another thing that we saw was you know notify was kind of a single app written in PHP was terrible the guy was kind of a self-taught developer it was not super strong technically and he just had as a choppa fire you know we we saw that there is the potential to apply this kind of idea the social proof technology to multiple different kinds of websites platforms like if this why is it that this should only exist on Shopify when you could also do the same thing on your blog where you say this person just

4:18subscribed this person just purchased this person just read this article it's like a really low not intrusive way to expose information and other things going on on your website to your website visitors and so we saw that there was this huge potential to build a platform and create a new brand and so outside for acting business I want to talk about what we did materially in the first 18 months to grow the business like we did so day one the common wisdom and what a lot of people talk about is raise prices I mean how many of you guys have raised your prices in the last 12 months even yeah

4:57awesome so that was a big one for us you know you hear all of these things and still even though Silicon Valley investors advisors all of these other entrepreneurs are talking about you should probably raise your prices especially as you're investing in growing the business building new features doing all this so many people still don't do it I think that people feel like they need to give users a good deal and if they raise prices they're somehow hurting the people that are supporting their you know their lifestyles their livelihoods I tend to think that's not true I mean we think that we still need to give users a good

5:33deal we want people to be static that they're a FOMO customer we want them to think it's such a no-brainer to use us but we still raise prices and the reason is because as someone signs up obviously we're increasing the amount of value that we're giving them so when we bought the business it was doing it was they charged about $15 a month flat so we introduced we did two very simple things we raised the bottom tier which as a Shopify app was tremendously helpful because you get a lot of tire kickers who are signing up for Shopify they try your app they get ten visits to their

6:08website and they say your app didn't work and it didn't drive me any sales and you're like well and then they leave a one-star review which actually hurts you and so we found that raising our prices it increased the bar and the quality of customers that came in the door and then we also added multiple tiers it's such a no-brainer but the guy previously had businesses that were doing two million dollars a month on Shopify that we're paying in the same $14.99 as someone that was doing a thousand a month and so it was just a very clear thing of like okay if we build good you know if we improve a

6:41couple features and introduced pricing tiers we're easily double the business the other thing that I thought was interesting is when we did this we didn't actually see a conversion decrease so what we did see was we saw a few people that would turn or like signups dipped just slightly but for the total number of people that ended up staying with us after a 30-day cycle we saw basically no difference so what that meant in my mind is that we were seeing far fewer tire kickers and far fewer people that were signing up for the first time trying the software and who maybe it wasn't a good fit for

7:19and yet you know we think we still had just as many real customers with real businesses that wanted to use our tool as before so after that raise prices literally we did that on day one I was like okay we know it's gonna happen day two we optimized the Shopify listing the Shopify listing was the biggest source of revenue for the business and so what we did is we realized that they had about twenty Shopify reviews at the time twenty-five I think and if we could ramp that up we would rank more highly and Shopify we we basically said like what can we do to increase the likelihood

7:53that someone signs up and so we sent this email to everyone that installed or had been using the app and I want to call out two things here we found that this email converted so well and started so many good conversations it started it got us a ton of reviews but basically what we said is hey thanks so much for using notified we've spent a ton of time building this so we're working hard on this I'm a real person and I super appreciate the fact that you installed our software and gave us a shot and then we just said here's a big favor if you like notify can you take 30 seconds to

8:28help me grow my little business and that line when we added the help me grow my little business did tremendously well for us because people really they install these tools and they often don't know the person or the people behind these things and if you say hey I've spent a lot of time on this it's a tiny business it's me working on it can you just do me like a big favor and help out for a couple of seconds we found people are so so responsive and really really wanted to help which was awesome so and then at the end of course we said if you have any future ideas let me know

9:02we're gonna add a bunch of stuff to the app over the next few months so you can see that when we started it was you know 25 apps or 25 reviews now we have over a hundred and sixty reviews and that has catapulted us at the top of the Shopify rankings it's drastically improved our social proof which is great because it drives more installs drives you know Shopify is now excited to promote us and talk about us as a partner and do all these kinds of things we also have any of you used kaptara before cool that's another tool that we've been surprised by how well it's worked but it's

9:38basically a third-party tool where people can rate how their different software tools like what they think of them and so we found that improving and getting good reviews on kaptara has actually been really helpful and a really useful way to drive a bunch of new signups so that was kind of day to implement that email campaign set up the drip we got 50 new reviews so the next thing outside of the reviews is we also optimized the actual Shopify listing now if you see this this is what the listing looks like before not a lot of call-outs I mean new to the Shopify store is not a

10:12benefit it doesn't the copies not very good it's not really telling you exactly what it does it's not giving you any social proof there's a lot of issues with this listing and because this Shopify listing was driving so much more traffic and so much of our revenue we knew that it was a key conversion point that we had to optimize so we did spend time optimizing it we spent the next we did it a full rewrite in a day hired a copywriter talked to our customer sent them this new description and said you know what do you think of this like how it has this what do you think of this

10:46description versus the previous can we get a testimonial we interviewed one of our customers which you can see bariatric Powell and included a bunch of different statistics and things that they've gotten from since installing FOMO and as a result of that increased our daily installs by 15% so you know now we have a ton we've had a bunch of installs and drastically drove that up so after the first kind of easy wins for us which were raised pricing improve the App Store listing get more reviews it was kind of time to focus on the the harder nitty-gritty stuff and so for us this was churn when we bought the

11:26business I was churning granted it's a Shopify out but churn was about 19% and so that meant that like if we had our Shopify app delisted we'd basically be out of business in five months so that's obviously not ideal I mean that do any of you guys have turned in that range I hope not awesome didn't see many hands which is great so when we bought the business again it is a Shopify app so it's easier to uninstall it's one-click a lot of people are kicking tires but still this was clearly clearly the most important and the biggest thing that we had to solve so our first order of

12:06business is figure out why like why is this happening why are people turning and so we set up Mixpanel again this is a thing that the previous founder hadn't done it was hugely beneficial to our business just set up a bunch of different trigger emails so someone took one action and they got an email saying hey thank you for doing this did you know we have this feature or we sent out we started sending weekly reports which the previous owner hadn't done that said here's how much your conversion rate went up thanks to having fomo installed in the seven days you've had it installed here's how much you've

12:38made an extra revenue from people that have clicked on fomo notifications and then ended up buying something and these were all just no-brainers that we allowed our customers to offer the first time to finally see you install FOMO and you make more money closing that loop was tremendously beneficial and we also got an incredible amount of feedback from these emails that we set up from Mixpanel the other thing we did is we tried to initiate as many customer conversations as we could so this is like one of my favorite emails / software hacks I would highly recommend it so what we did is basically five days into someone's trial

13:17we would send them an email from Ryan the founder and copy our support guy Arnold so it would just say you'd get an email as a customer you get an email in your inbox that just says intro you know Chris and Arnold whatever it is and all of a sudden you can read the email here but you're looped in with our head of customer support and our product manager and so you just say are saying like hey thank you for signing up for FOMO if you have any issues here's a guy here's his contact info you're already connected with him like let us know and we'll fix

13:50it right away and this by far has been the best email to initiate conversations that I've ever seen I mean it blows other lifecycle marketing and Mixpanel emails and everything else we've done just totally out of the water and we've gotten good feedback from marketers like cular who said that the intro email tactic is a good one that he hasn't seen before and it's it's worked really well the other thing we did is unlike the previous owner who was one guy didn't really want to work that hard I you know just cuz he was focused on other things he just wasn't giving customers the support the feature development

14:29everything that they kind of wanted and needed in the platform and so we focused on hiring so our first hire was a support guy who could help basically fix and turnaround customer issues in we our goal was 24 hours or less and we now have three full-time customer support people they're fantastic and have just been a tremendous boon to the business not only have they increased customer lifetime value but they also get all of these conversations they get a pulse and an understanding of what our customers want like what problems do they have what integrations do they want what can we do to solve more problems for them

15:05all have been tremendously helpful and so three months after going through those things that I told you about we saw our turn go from 19% to 8% and now you know it's eighteen months later it's under seven which is great so you know we some ones have five someone's someone's two someone's eight but it is about just under seven for the last couple months which for a Shopify app is tremendous like we're incredibly excited this so that's been a huge lover the next lover that it surprised me with how important it was and how beneficial it's been to our growth has been building integrations so as soon as we bought the

15:46app it was only on Shopify and you couldn't use it anywhere else so we said okay we're gonna build a standalone platform so with a snippet of JavaScript you can install it on your site outside of that though we're also going to invest in building integrations like big like on big commerce like on a bunch of these other EECOM and other platforms where people can install FOMO pay for it and get the value from it without having to know a single line of code how many of you guys have thought about like doing a large-scale kind of integration build-out as a way to acquire new customers cool so we found that this was

16:21one of the best levers for our business when we bought the business it was 100% Shopify today Shopify accounts for less than 40% of our revenue and this is all driven by people installing it on their own going through integrations and doing things like this like this was when we bought the business this was 45 days after we launched the big commerce integration cost us fifteen hundred bucks and in the first 45 days we had that live we made about a thousand you know and it's just been paying dividends ever since now big commerce I believe is in the 8 to $9,000 a month range for

16:57that integration since we saw that work so well we've really doubled down on this integration strategy so we do a couple of things here not only do we build these integrations so that you can see you know when someone checks out does something on zapier signs up for your email list on convertkit leaves a review on on google whatever we have all of these integrations and these are awesome not only from a make money and make revenue standpoint but also from a marketing standpoint like if you look at the zapier customer list you know we did an integration with them and we said hey if we build something cool that your

17:36customers want will you guys do a case study will you do an email blast about us will you do a blog post about us and you know that's a company that's spent years and tons of money and tons of time building this massive customer base and this massive audience and just by building an integration like we can get access to those people and kind of tell them this is what FOMO is this is how it helps this is why it's great like for us we've almost started viewing these integrations as kind of a marketing expense where we say you know for a couple weeks of development time we're

18:08gonna work with a company that's gonna send out an email blast to tens of thousands of people that's pretty high ROI I mean even if some of them may not have it use for the integration on its own a lot of them will come and sign up for the product outside you know we've had plenty of customers say oh I heard about you from this integration from this blog post from this email whatever so outside of the the integrations in like really figuring out that that was a channel that was worth it for us and doubling down on that and doing over 50 integrations in the last 18 months we've

18:38also been super opportunistic so from talking to customers we've seen that they want to kind of see that tightly coupled loop between having fomo installed and making more money like I mentioned earlier and so this is one of the first features that we built is we said here's how many notifications you shoot you showed here's how many people clicked on them here's how many conversions you got and here's how much you made in terms of revenue from people that clicked a notification and bought a product that for a product that like they were on a product page that that was different than the thing they were

19:13looking at so kind of like an incremental sale and so we built this dashboard so as soon as you log in this is one of the first things you see here's the hard ROI then compared to that I mean if you're looking at a chart that says you made eighteen thousand dollars in the last seven thirty days you're probably not gonna cancel your $199 a month subscription so we've really really hammered on building this kind of value we also have been opportunistic in other ways so we we have been we realized that there's this kind of low-hanging fruit and a ton of options available in the buying small

19:51software companies space and so we got relatively good at this point and we're relatively experienced finding negotiating and buying tiny companies so to date we've now acquired several more Shopify apps including two small competitors you know we just fold them into our platform we have a standard agreement we have a standard way that we structure these deals we opportunistically bought a website called built with Shopify it was a Shopify tools website that said here are all the tools that if you are building a Shopify site you should consider using it got about 30,000 uniques a month but it's exactly the customer we want anyone who's going on a

20:30website to read about like what tool should I put on my Shopify store that's someone that we want to talk to so we bought the site we redesigned it we got their email list and like we've included fomo as one of the featured apps on that site as you might imagine so that's been amazing we also kind of aligned goals so one of our goals is like we want to help marketers be more honest and be more transparent so we want people to be able to say you know I install FOMO and all of a sudden the entire world can see what's happening on my website so you

21:02don't have to lie you don't have to make up numbers you don't have to say things that people might be skeptical of you can see in real time how many people are buying something how are they using it what are your users doing and so we built this tool that pulls in customer reviews and then auto publishes it on the testimonials page on our website super simple tool just did it using blocks bring in Google sheets but now that has gotten also a ton of good customer feedback we've also built thanks to customer response you know they said the next thing I want to do is

21:34I want to know how I can do more with photo and so we said great so we'll go to you a smart dashboard that says if you do these things here's what you're likely to get and so you can see here it says here are four different tips like if you do this it will likely increase your impressions to click raise you up to 21 percent you do this and it'll you know improve X Y or Z by a certain amount and we hold that all together we did a bunch of a kind of like data deep dive and said this is what's going to work for you based on what we've seen

22:06from our other customers so basically making our tool more and leveraging our customers data to help them do their jobs better and so after all of that you know this is what our graph has looked like so we bought the company in April of 2015 I'm sorry 2016 and you know this has been kind of the growth story since then we've more than 4x the business you know we're on track to do about 100k in mro this month we have a completely bootstrapped right and I used our own personal capital to buy the business and have invested in that sense and you know it's it's been a tremendous kind of

22:46story of growth so far but one thing I want to point out is I think that it's somewhat dishonest for me to get up here and say like you know this was the successful thing and here I'm so great or whatever like there were multiple times in this journey like if you look sort of the latter half of 2016 or even last month where I was like like it's done it's tapped out like it's shrinking you know this it's all kind of falling apart and it's super easy to just look at the graph overall and say you know we went 20 to 80 in 18 months

23:18like awesome and it's fantastic but it's been a lot of work and there been a lot of doubts and questions kind of along the way and so what I've found is that every step and every point where we were seeing a flat line we're seeing a decline or just kind of doubting like what we were doing we just buckled down as a team and figured out ok what do we need to do like what's one more feature that we can ship to make one customer happy what's one customer acquisition test we can run to try and materially jump the business and so far that's been working really well so thank you so much

23:52I would love to hear questions and check out some use phone [Applause] all right who has a question for Justin um yeah how did you decide to hire three full-time customer service reps and like did you consider any alternatives looking at the like cartoon team yes yes so it was a significant decision we did not do it from day one so we hired our first customer our first hire was a customer support person and then as the support request just kind of scaled up we saw that the value was there like we tracked the number of people that our support customer had talked to and either

24:34prevented from turning or up sold to a higher plan and just by tracking that we were like okay this pays for itself a hundred times over and so basically it said that any time one of our support guys are not able to close a ticket or get to someone in a 24 hour period like we're gonna hire someone else because this is just so high ROI for us yeah sure did you hire any software developers not all because you guys did a ton of integrations you talked about hiring stat work crew I was at you and your co-founder that did all the development yeah so it was my co-founder

25:07and then we hired a dev shop that we worked with pretty closely for the first six months yeah and that was a that was again like Ryan and I investing our own money and taking every dollar of revenue from FOMO and putting it towards like dev just so that it could go faster can you share more about how you approached the competitors that you acquired sure yeah great question I feel like one of our biggest learnings from this whole thing has been just how to find and acquire these businesses like FOMO is a great case study of that and so we went through the acquisition process of Lou

25:46FOMO learned a lot and then effectively we saw just how useful it was to acquire and approach these kind of small competitors that in most cases are solo developers have been working on the thing for less than call it two years and are probably doing single digits thousands a month and so I think that there's this kind of inflection point where competitors or someone launches an app they have this grand vision of success and then after a year year and a half they kind of realize that they they don't either they either don't understand what they're doing or it's just not going the way they hoped and so

26:24we found that on the day that we decided to do this we just email 20 of our competitors that had similar apps on the App Store and said hey we're interested in bringing you into the FOMO Network like potentially acquiring your business are you open at all and we got I think more than half of them said yes some of them didn't work on price but you know it was pretty easy it was just very straightforward hey we're willing to buy you are you interested in selling and would you be willing to just kind of sell it help us integrate and then walk away and for a

26:57large much larger number than I thought we're very open that all right um on your advice broad kind of blanket statement of raise prices that we all know and love death I'd be interested to know if how did it how exactly did you come to that magic number because I mean at some point you're pricing your target market out and you're gonna lose money if you raise your prices too much I know we could have a whole conference on pricing you know on its own maybe we can launch yeah mega thread on slack if anybody else has thoughts but totally yeah it's a good question so I I still don't know that it is the

27:36magic number it just it's a it's one that we tested it and it worked really well so we basically we send an email to existing customers where we had one landing page that was twenty nine seventy nine $1.99 I think and then one that was slightly higher and we sent them both had an offer to say like you know get a one-time discount to upgrade a plan and we found that many more people kind of opted for the $29.99 sweet spot like that was where that was where our Shopify customer wanted to go now we're seeing on the opposite now that Shopify is way less of our revenue we're

28:12seeing people are way more willing to pay higher prices and so I kind of think of like at this point I kind of think about pricing as a on boarding path we're like you just want to get someone in the door at a price that's not absorbent and then assuming they grow their business which for us many of our customers are startup small businesses and and they're all kind of on a growth path they're gonna stick with us if we provide a good service for years to come and so we want to have an entry price that's not too crazy and then also have a really really meaningful enterprise

28:43price that people can kind of scale into that is really material if we just land a couple of those so that's how we think about it I don't know that we have the magic formula nailed know did you grandfather existing customers and if not did you get any pushback yes we did grandfather existing customers for a year do you have do you have any tips for negotiating with integration partners in terms of trying to maximize the marketing impact of your integrations yeah I mean the biggest thing for us was we said we said like here is what is in it for you so for zapier we said you know we're

29:22gonna bring all of these EECOM customers and send an email to our twenty thousand person list about how they should use a peer we'll build a custom flow and show them a really cool hack that we kind of came up with that they can do when they install a peer and so it was here's what you'll get out of it like for the price of a blog post you basically get exposure to potentially twenty thousand ecommerce people which is a market that say Pierre cares about for us or that's a Pierre cares about and so that was kind of an easy sell but in every case

29:53we we kind of had two phases we had the first phase where we started approaching these people and saying here's what's in us for you here's like all the benefits you're going to get here's the cool thing that's gonna happen if you work with us and then in the latter case we've actually now moved to building spending like a couple days building an integration and then just sending the finished Docs to the partner at the integration site along with saying like hey we just built this integration we did integrations with X Y & Z like if you want us to do a blog post will write

30:23it will promote it will put paid facebook ads behind it will send it to our email list if you'll do the same and like that offer has been pretty much a no-brainer for a lot of our integration partners because you know we've had partners say like I've literally never had someone build an integration and then just tell me they've done it and of course I'm gonna promote you and so that's that's worked pretty well hey how are you differentiating yourself between your competitors I've seen a lot of FOMO solutions yeah marketplace so when it comes to are you just copying features but how do you set yourself apart yeah that's a great

30:58question so one of our probably our biggest competitor so again we started doing this about two years ago one of our biggest competitors launched about eight months ago they just went through Y Combinator they're raising a couple million dollars at that point there's not really a ton of you know we I think we have better features in some ways we have a really strong team but there's not really a ton that we can do in terms of feature differentiation like we are trying to build features they're kind of doing the same and it's sort of a rat race and so what we focus on is the

31:33actual experience of using the product like if you have two matching products and one of them is super responsive customer support is amazing we'll build your integrations for you we have a ton of happy customers our product scales with you to millions of events per month like we've built and architected the entire company and the entire product so that at no point in the customer journey are you unhappy with what we're doing and so we've actually seen an uptick in signups like I don't know - last month if you saw the graph but proof basically started doing some very aggressive proof is our competitor some very aggressive

32:11Facebook advertising just around the and you can see that reflected because we got a ton of people that sign up for proof saw their product broke didn't like their customer service because they have all non-technical customer support people which for a software product I think is insane they just started coming over to us and so that spike from roughly 75 to about 88 a lot of that was driven at a time when proof was spending more than six figures a month on Facebook ads trying to get people to convert to their product and we just got a huge tailwind from that and so that's kind of how we

32:46think about I mean I don't know I don't know what will happen in the end but I suspect that they will help grow the market and make what we're trying to do more of a more of a thing and more a more recognized tool to have on your website than not I mean I kind of think like drift and intercom they've kind of grown the market for another yeah they're competitors but you know that market is vastly bigger thanks to the two of them existing and talking about it and trying to build that and because we're not trying to become the next Facebook we're just trying to build a

33:15profitable business with customers that love us that's going to work more in our advantage I don't know if it goes the other way for proof like if they're at our level or 500k month they might be in a hard spot so we'll see it's me over here all right so how did you connect with the person at zapier and how did you have that conversation of getting the blog published yeah we just I believe we called emailed them I think yeah I'm pretty sure we just called email their partner integrations or their partnerships person they're you know that guy or woman's job literally is to build integrations and bring

33:56partners into the platform and so it's it was pretty easy for us that was not in the top 80% of hard cold emails that we've had to send other than your zapier have you exposed a an API like a REST API that larger customers might make their own integrations or zapier we have the solution yeah so we found that a lot of our customers were not as technical and so zapier was a fantastic solution for them we also do have an events API that we use for a lot of our larger customers like eBay just started onboarding and sending events to it and we're going through that kind of

34:37onboarding cycle so we definitely have one of those and that's been a big win for many of our larger customers you mentioned needing a technical support team and we're in a position of needing to ramp up our support team peers if you could share any wisdom on sourcing and onboarding that kind of a support team yeah it's a great question so for us or like many of you I suspect we are bootstrapped and we're never like so cash happy that we could hire a developer and put a month support and so what we found is hiring people that recently graduated from dev boot camps has actually been a tremendous source of

35:14customer support hires all of our support hires have been recently out of a dev bootcamp and the market has sort of caught on to the fact that dev boot camps don't make you a strong Facebook level engineer and so a lot of these people are struggling to find work and still want to be in TAC and so for our guys what we do is we hire them out of boot camps kind of teach them the the customer relations style that we care about we put them through another development track called launch Academy which I think I believe it's called that but basically it's this $2,500 a month

35:51technical course that my co-founder Ryan went through and said is amazing and loves it so we put them through another sort of development training course and then have them answering tickets and just sitting next to Ryan or want to or like assign them to a senior engineer and onboard them for a couple months and that though kind of a headache has been tremendously useful and by far like the best the best thing we figured out on the hiring standpoint yeah exactly so we so we say like you wanted to learn how to code you're not good enough to actually build anything yet at a real company and so we're gonna like invest

36:33in your learning so that you can get better get experience building the product for others make small feature updates and pushes and then a year two years after you'll you know will have gotten a ton of customer support helped we can on board you into a full-time engineer or you can go do your own thing either way like everyone's happy you've talked about smaller Shopify stores as well as enterprise customers we look like two very different markets yeah how do you think about them and how do you sort of approach those two markets that are so very different yeah it's a great question so we started just focused on

37:05Shopify stores because it was only a Shopify app that was that and so that has been our core kind of revenue engine that we've used to grow the business and so since day one that has just been kicking off cash that we've been reinvesting to the business and we've used that kind of core set of smaller customers you know 7,000 customers or whatever it is on Shopify now to take that cash and invest in building an enterprise ready product and so that process took about six to nine months and as soon as we got a product that liked large companies could install on their own site

37:39it was Enterprise ready it was Enterprise worthy then we started seeing some larger companies have some inbound that's when we started building out Account Executives building out a sales person who just made our first marketing hire recently so doing all of that kind of stuff that is gearing us up to go from now hopefully I'll be back next year talking about how we went from like 100k to 500k or something like that you know but it's a completely different ballgame from the standpoint of what you have to do internally as a team and what you have to do as a product to service the higher level customers so we're

38:13gearing up for that all right we have time for one more question any others all right thank you so much to all thanks already [Applause] you