The Most Delusional People Always Win | Sarah Perl (HotHighPriestess)

0:00Sarah, welcome. 2.8 million TikTok followers, 1.2 million Instagram followers. I dare say you've become the global face of manifestation. Self-concept is everything. The most delusional people always win. So, let's drill into content. If you could break down the most important things that you know about creating viral content, please share. Um I would say obviously I just had this belief that I would hit like a million followers at the time. My reality is in the intersection of like saying the thing that everyone wants everyone believes but no one has the balls to

0:28say. that. What drove you to say like okay, I need to go down the app world? I was going through a heartbreak and [music] for one I always I always profit off my pain. I just refuse to be hurt and not alchemize the pain into something in my life. Mhm. If you were talking to someone who is you know early 20s, wanted to build coming out of college no idea what to do with their life. What's something that

0:49they should do day one Monday? Post online. [music] Like post content. I think once you have a personal brand you could sell anything. [music] Sarah, welcome. Hi. Long time no see. I know. [laughter] Uh you have been up to a lot since I last saw you in LA a few years ago. 2.8 million TikTok followers, 1.2 million

1:11Instagram followers. I dare say you've become the global face of manifestation. I think that would be an accurate representation. And most importantly I've seen you in a lot of memes. Yeah. Your face keeps seeing like it pops up on Twitter and all sorts of different places. Uh how have you been? Amazing. I feel like I've been side quest maxing and but like accidentally succeeding kind of. So like but yeah like Twitter randomly like popping off on there and then like in memes. I feel

1:41like I'm everywhere. Fantastic. Yeah. I read a really interesting quote recently. Uh Cristiano Ronaldo when he was first coming up he was playing at Manchester United and Porto before that. He is quoted in the press as having said that at the time you know he was probably like the 1000th ranked player in the world. But every morning he would wake up and he would look in the mirror and he would say, "I'm the best player on Earth. I'm the best player that will ever be." And then 10 years later that came true. But in order to feel it and play the way that the world's best

2:11player would, he had to tell himself he had to tell himself that every single day. What's the lesson in that? Self-concept is everything. Who you believe you are, you will become. And like I've seen this time and time again. Like the most delusional people always win. And I think it's not always like the hardest working person. Like honestly, it's not because when [ __ ] gets hard, like the thing that'll keep you going is your self-belief. And I think we're all just like self-fulfilling prophecies at the end of the day. And um yeah, like you you you have to be pretty [ __ ]

2:43delusional to win. Like at a certain point, you know? [laughter] So like the more delusional you are, the better in my opinion. love that. With that in mind, uh I would love it if you could introduce yourself, tell us what you've been building, a little bit about your background, your story until now, and uh and a little bit

2:58about the app. Yeah. So I'm hot high priestess. Um and I make spiritual manifestation mindset content. Um and yeah, I started by like in college I posted a TikTok and it accidentally went viral and it was like tarot cards. Accidentally. I like [laughter] manifested it. Um and then I was like I just like feel like in that moment I was like I feel like my life changed. And I was like this can't be a coincidence. And so I posted again and again and like every video was going viral and I was like, "Okay, clearly this is like some opportunity that I'm meant to take." And yeah, from there I like scaled a

3:38personal brand. I did like brand deals. I did um you know, eventually I started doing digital products. Um and then I have um an e-commerce brand um on TikTok Shop and Amazon as well. And then recently I launched an app called Stella. Let's go. Um, which is so it it rate it five stars. Um, but yeah, and that's been like the most successful thing I've ever launched, which is super random. I never thought

4:02that I would like launch an app. Um, but it was like right place, right time. It seemed like such an obvious choice at the time when I was building it. So, yeah, it's been incredible. It's a manifestation app that creates custom visualizations of your dream life. So, I downloaded this morning. The onboarding is amazing. Uh, you for the for the listeners, first of all, you should download it, have a look. You step through and ask you a

4:26series of questions about your life. Mhm. And then it from what I understand, it gave me a series of uh audio clips to listen to that was sort of like 10 years in the future. It was like what my life could become. And when I listened to them, it was really it was exactly what I wanted my life to become. It was like my wife in the kitchen going through

4:45board meeting prep with me. Oh, yes. It's like [laughter] very like specific things that like I would think about. Right. Um, tell me about like the process in like how did you like I know you've done a lot of stuff in like manifestation online, but how did you think about this as like a proven user concept and and

5:00something that had to be built? Yeah. seen anything like it. No, and it's that's the thing. It's like a completely novel concept. I think in consumer apps, a lot of people like make or make apps that are just like copies of other apps or, you know, um, or based around other concepts. Whereas like Stella was kind of a novel

5:17thing. What what the reason I built it was because at the time, like over the summers at some point, I um, started doing I'd always been doing this like manifestation technique called scripting where you like write about your dream life as if it's yours today. Love. And so I'd be like, I woke up in my dream apartment, da da da da da, and I was like it's like one, it's like annoying to

5:39like sit down and like write that out. Two, it's like limited to your own consciousness. And I was like, well, AI is a thing. Like let me ask chat to like write something out for me. So, I started going on chat GPT and I was like, you know, write a story of my dream life. You know everything about me. Like, what would my life look like a

5:55year from now if everything goes well? And I would read this story and start crying, like literally sobbing. I'm like, oh my god, like I couldn't have even imagined that for myself, you know? Because it goes outside of your realm of consciousness. And I was like give us some examples? Like, for example, it was like it started talking about things like um like my company getting acquired or whatever. And I'm like, I don't even I wasn't even thinking about that. Now Yeah, dream so much bigger than I even gave myself permission to. And so, I think that's like what I love about Stellar is it gives you permission to

6:27dream big. It's a beautiful tagline. Yeah, right? I know. [laughter] Well, I really like the uh right now I think on your your Instagram it says delusion isn't a disorder. It's an app. Yeah. Fantastic. Right? I love [laughter] it. Um and it works. And that that's the crazy thing is like you I've been listening to these audios um especially about my app, funny enough, kind of meta. But then I'm like, wait, like it's actually happening because you it's like the reticular activating system in your brain when you like tell yourself um I want a red car, suddenly you're seeing red cars everywhere. And suddenly you're

6:59talking to someone who has a red car. And then one thing leads to next and now you have what you want. So. I completely agree. And so about like 3 4 years ago I was skeptical on what manifestation is. I think I I understand it now. And not only do I understand it, but I actually believe it for a lot of reasons. There is a study that I'm going to cite right now, which is super interesting. So, I'm pulling my phone out. There is a study by uh Christina Dragonech and Kristy

7:25Erdal. I that basically says placebo sleep affects cognitive functioning. Placebo sleep affects cognitive functioning. And what this study showed is that if you've slept badly, you can actually convince yourself that you're well rested. And this is a peer-reviewed study that was published. If you've had a stressful day, you can convince yourself that that's fuel. If you failed in something, you can convince yourself that's useful data. So, basically like you can literally The tagline here says, "Literally just having the delusion of a golden retriever mindset measurably

7:56changes outcomes in physiology." And there's a huge lesson in this. There was also another study from Colorado University in 2014 that showed So, you know all the like the sleep trackers like Oura rings and eight sleep and Whoops and all these things that are giving you sleep scores when you wake up. If you wake up and you look at it and you see a bad sleep score, it really negatively impacts your day in a way that it wouldn't if you had never looked

8:21at your sleep score. Yes. You're exactly the same person, but now someone's told you You had a shitty sleep. Exactly. Oh my god, yes. That's why I stopped wearing my Oura ring. So, I'm officially manifestation convert. I'm in. Yes. I'm in the cult. Let's go. Yes. [laughter] The Stella gang. Um no, but like and also like uh professional athletes, like they can visualize um I forgot the study, but like uh like basketball players will like visualize themselves like throwing it in the the whatever and like So, it works. It's like when you visualize it, you literally

8:50physiologically change your body. Yeah. And we've known this from placebo drugs for a long time where so often in double-blind studies when someone takes a placebo, they will end up with a similar effect as the person taking the actual drug. And science was just like baffled on this for years. It was manifesting essentially. It's the same thing. We've just had different

9:10names for it over the decades. Yeah. So, to anyone who criticizes you, what do you have to say? I would say try. How about you try it and then come back to me. Because I was a skeptic, too. Like I was The only reason I even started manifesting was cuz I was so desperate at the time. I was like, "I will try anything at this point." Like I was like super broke and going through a heartbreak and I was

9:31like, "I need anything at this point. I'll believe in anything." And so, I was like, "Okay, let me say these affirmations, let me like do these meditations, visualizations, and then like literally instantly my life changed. And I was like, well, I can't deny this anymore. Whether it's scientific, whether it's psychological, whether it's neuroscience, I was like, I don't care what it is. If it works, I'm

9:49going to keep doing it. It's beautiful. Yeah. That begs the question, what is the most delusional thing that you believed about yourself before it became true? A lot of things. [laughter] I think like one of the ones I um that just comes to mind is I think like I was like a huge Alex Hormozi fan.

10:11Yeah, he's great. And I don't remember where I I think this was this number wasn't even right, but I was like, what age I like I think I looked up what age did Alex Hormozi become a millionaire? And I think it was actually 26, but I think I read it and it said 23 or something like that. I

10:25don't know. And you were like, oh. And I was like, well, I have to [ __ ] I've like a year left. Like I'm going to make this happen. And I did it. And like and so I was just like, whoa. What let's talk about This is crazy, right? Um and I was like,

10:38how cool would that be? Um so I think that's the most delusional thing cuz I was like so in debt with college debt um at the time like I wasn't I was like in school like I was or I had just graduated rather, but like [snorts] I didn't think that would be possible, but I you you become delusional and you're like, well, I'm going to figure

10:56it out or I'm going to die trying. Yeah. So Yeah. I love that. Therefore, is Hot High Priestess not a character and it's authentically you or is Hot High Priestess a character that you're sort of like dramatizing this and where does Sarah Pell end and Hot High Priestess begin in that world? That's such a good question. I would say when people meet me, they're like, you

11:16are exactly who you are online. [laughter] Mine is a little bit of the psycho [ __ ] stuff. Like I'm a little crazy and I dramatize it, but like for the most part, I feel like it's literally me. Um I'm always manifesting. I like I use my app. I I do the manifesting work. Um I think like maybe a little bit like I'm just a little crazy online, but [laughter]

11:36yeah. I love that. Yeah. So, let's drill into content because there's a lot of people out there who start making content, they make 100 videos, every video gets 50 plays, or you get stuck in that you know the the 320-ish play Tik Tok trap. Yeah. Your videos have obscene amounts of plays, obscene. Like there's so many over 5 million, there's so many over 10 million. I saw some with like 20 million plus. So, it feels like you've cracked onto something that you really understand how to make a video that works with a hook, how to make something go viral. If you could break down the most important things that you know

12:10about creating viral content, please share. Wow. Um I would say obviously mindset. Not to go back to that, but truly I feel like something that um like I think part of the reason delusion helped so much is because inevitably you're going to have a season of flopping, right? And I remember when I was starting Tik Tok, things were going really well, and then I had like a season where like my videos were just like not getting views. And that was like happening to all my like creator friends, and a lot of them stopped posting. And like just like went back cuz we were all in college at the time, like they just

12:42went to school and they were like all right, [ __ ] this. And it's crazy because the delusional belief, like I just had this belief that I would hit like a million followers at the time. And I was like that belief carried me through the hardest seasons of making content because the truth is it so much of it is like outside of your control or you're inevitably going to be slapped in the face. So, um I think mindset is really important, and I would post every day. I remember I would go like live on Tik Tok, and I'd be like I would pretend I had like thousands of

13:10people watching me when I had like two people there being like, "Hi, like what up?" [laughter] And so like you just have to fake it till you make it. Like you have to see it, you know? Um but then on like a literal, you know, level, I think what helps is I always say like virality is in the intersection of like saying the thing that everyone wants everyone believes but no one has the balls to

13:31say. I love that. You know what I'm saying? give us an example? So an example is like when I was starting I was making a lot of content on like how to manifest your ex back. [laughter] Which is so stupid but it's like Was this personally driven? Um [screaming] [laughter] Um and so like that's something like everyone maybe subconsciously at some point has thought but no one wants to

13:51admit or like make content about, right? Yeah. And so the person who has the balls to make that content it's going to go viral, right? Because that's what everyone secretly desires but no one and that's why like Trump is like super popular and like Andrew Tate for example because he was saying what a lot of men were believing but didn't necessarily

14:09would put it into words. Yeah. So obviously maybe don't do that but like something along those lines of like something you truly believe in, something you've seen work, something a belief you truly have but then like post about it. So I think that and I think one of the biggest tips I would say is like literally just recreate content that works over and over and over again to the point

14:31Yeah. Genuinely you can go through look through my videos I've reposted the same video so many times like the word for word and I'm like and it still does well and I'm like that's just crazy but that's like my biggest tip. We learned this at checkmate as well. We had hooks that were working really well and we were like we're going to shoot it again but he's going to use a banana for a microphone. Shoot it again [laughter] but he's going to put his sunglasses back to front and it just like works repeatedly and there's so many people on TikTok there's so many that like it will

14:58just find your audience as well. And you forget like I think about this all the time like again I love Alex Hormozi like he has made videos of like the same thing so many times and I love it every time I see it. So we forget we heard it yesterday, you know? It's just like that and I'm like It's so great so I'm just like keep remaking it. [laughter] Walk us through your very first viral video, what that moment was like, why you think it worked, how many you'd made

15:21until that point. Mhm. Were you about to give up? Like, you know, walk us through like the moment it all started clicking. Yeah. Well, so again, I thought it like I don't even know what compelled me to post the first video I ever posted. Um maybe it was like a calling or something, but yeah, it was like a random Tuesday and I was really into tarot cards at the time. Like a COVID

15:42like hyperfixation. Yeah, obviously. And so I like made a video or it was actually three. And it was like the one you see is the one you're meant to hear. And one of them, like I would pull out one card, and one of them was like the lovers card. Thank god it was because that went viral, obviously. And it was

16:01like, "They're in love with you." Whatever. And like I [snorts] posted it and I didn't think anything of it. And then I was like hanging out with my friends, I came back, and I saw the video was like at 50,000 views and 100,000 and then like a million. And I was like, "Holy fuck." I felt like I was on drugs. Like I was like, "I have never felt something like this in my life." Every time I refreshed, it was like I was like, "Oh

16:22[laughter] my god." And I was like, "Well, I should just keep doing that." Like let me post another tarot video. And then it got like 4 million views. So I got lucky, I think. Um what I did. Um but also, you know, sometimes people will have like a hit and then just kind of like bounce out or they'll change. They think, "This

16:40works, let me try something new." Yes, big mistake. What worked for me was I was like, "This works, how can I literally make something super similar because we know this style as well." So, yeah. I love that. I wrote down in my notes here, it's interesting because with your biggest videos, I feel like there's really two themes that come up a lot,

17:01wealth and love. Yeah. But your two biggest videos of all time are both about love. They're both I think one is 21 million views, the other is 22 million views, and they're both about manifesting getting your ex back. People [laughter] seem to latch onto this more than wealth, interestingly enough on social media. Is there a

17:17lesson in that? Yes, and it's that especially with so everything is psychological and to succeed in business you have to understand human psychology. And I think it's so true. It always comes down to that and with everything even like my e-commerce brand or like when TikTok shop is like the perfect example of that cuz you have you know, 15 seconds to

17:38like hook someone in. Um, and so what it taught me was the most powerful like the best thing you could do in business is work with human biology. Like instead of trying to convince someone like work with what their natural body is already wanting to act on, right? Whether [clears throat] that's survival, whether that's health, whether that's um, you know, like for most people it's going to be love or lust or whatever. Um, if you use biology with like to help and support your

18:08business, you just do so much better. biology is a good way to phrase it. I've often phrased it as the consumer startups, uh, it has to latch onto one of the seven deadly sins. Mhm, yeah. Yeah, [laughter] that's so good. And wealth and love, you know, lust and greed. Greed. It's it's the things that are core to us and we shouldn't even think of them as sins. It's a beautiful thing to be rich,

18:31it's a beautiful thing to be in love. Love is great. Um, but those are the core human desires and when you think about every consumer startup that has made it, they have latched onto one of the seven deadly sins Yeah. and created a product around it and helped you get it. Yeah. And I feel like you really nailed that here for multiple things because you can

18:45manifest any of the seven deadly sins. Even botany if that's what you want. Your heart's desires. Literally. Yeah, and it's it's really interesting cuz you even think about your own life and it's like, what am I motivated like what am I motivated to act on, you know? And like how much more money am I willing to spend on those than you know, versus like going to the gym. Like it's like I love it, but it's not like an urgent like thing that I

19:09yeah. So you're now an app founder and we're going to drill into that in a second cuz I I love this direction for you. Yeah. But, there was a time where you were mostly like 100% leverage on social media. And in January 2025, it looks like TikTok might be going away forever. Yeah. How was that month for you? Uh stressful, for sure. Um yeah, cuz I remember like the rumors like kept coming up. It was actually on my

19:34birthday that they banned it for 1 day. I remember that day. It's crazy. like January 18th or 19th or whatever. NASA was fist pumping. I [laughter] was like, they were like, thank god. [gasps] And I was like, I mean, I had again like I It's funny cuz I think it was the New York Times reached out and they were like, what do you think's going to

19:51happen? I was like, it's not going away. Like I just have this deep conviction, not that I manifested it, but I was just like, I And you know what? I was like, and if it goes away, I'll figure it the [ __ ] out. I did it the one time, I could do it again. Whether she YouTube shorts, something new would pop up. That's I was actually kind of excited cuz I was like, if it does get banned, there's going to be a new platform and I

20:13First mover advantage. Right. You're ready to go. I'll be there first. Yeah, Vine's coming back is what everyone was saying. Right. I was like, I'm ready. [laughter] So, I was like nervous just cuz I obviously my biggest audience is on TikTok, but I was like, I have so much self-trust as a founder, as a content creator that I'm like, I And at the time, I was like, it actually benefited me because I built a larger following on Instagram because of it. So, I started pushing all my following to like cross

20:39um you know, cross-promoting. Yeah. That's a good segue into this uh Our audience is almost entirely founders and people who want to build companies or social media presence or they just want to build a brand of some kind. Mhm. You build in both TikTok and Instagram. Have you noticed really measurable differences in the algorithms between the two? Is there content that works on one that doesn't work on the other? And then, do you play with paid versus organic? Like how have you found all of

21:04that between the two ecosystems? So, I would say you have to be on both. Like, that's just like absolutely like you're missing out on so much if you're not on Reels and on Tik Tok and on YouTube Shorts and on everything. Um the beauty of Tik Tok is you could post a video today and it can you could

21:23wake up tomorrow with 5 million views. Yeah. And it's like crazy. It's crazy. It's happened to us a few times where like Yeah. Woah. And it's life changing. And you're like, oh [ __ ] I'm going to have to hire new people like like last minute. [laughter] So, but that's the beauty of Tik Tok is it's it um it's almost like I don't know like gambling. Um whereas Instagram it's like a longer term game um and it's more like the S&P 500 where [laughter] you're like you kind of have to just keep putting your reps in and then eventually, you know, it starts taking off, but it's a lot slower. Um

21:53what I like about Instagram a lot more is it's extremely consistent. Whereas Tik Tok is inconsistent. So, like one day you'll have a video get 5 million views and then the next year like at 30,000 and you're like, what? You know, I've heard the follower count almost doesn't matter now because it's just it's still just depends on that

22:09first 3 seconds no matter what. Exactly. like if it [clears throat] it won't even show it to your own followers if the first 3 seconds isn't a good hook. Exactly. Whereas Instagram it does. So, and still even then like not as much nowadays. Um so, cuz of like the For You page. So, I would say you need to be posting on both. What I like about Tik Tok is you could just like [ __ ] post. Like, you could post whatever. What I like about Tik Tok is I just post like I post to experiment on Tik Tok and then I repost the videos that have done well

22:37on Instagram. And that's really worked well for me. Um and what you'll notice is on Instagram it's a lot higher quality um more curated content whereas like Tik Tok it's like it's such in the moment stuff that goes viral and not curated. Like, honestly the more curated the less viral it goes on Tik Tok. I We've actually noticed the exact same thing. We had kind of like a a realization that Tik Tok was almost like

23:00quality over quantity. Yeah. were like we were trying to make the perfect content with the perfect script and the perfect narrative and we were like, let's just release 100 terrible videos and one will go viral. Yeah. And we were like, what about that one? Let's make 10 versions of that. And then five of those are going to go viral. And

23:14we're like, okay. Exactly. Like it and and then with Instagram it's we felt exactly the same way. It was like all the stuff on there is [snorts] like very polished and like there's something weird about the format that just rewards that content for whatever reason, but yeah. For some reason, yeah. We found the same way. Yeah. And um I mean another thing I love about Instagram is ManyChat has been an

23:32incredible tool for me. Um and DMs and and stories is like great. It's such a good tool um which you can leverage. But like TikTok it's not as much, so. Yeah. Yeah. So let's uh transition to the founder world. Yeah. So was there like what was the desire to build an app? You already had a wonderful audience. You were selling courses like you still are. You have

23:53incredible social media following. Uh what drove you to say like, okay, I need to go down the app world and and this is it. Mhm. It's crazy because again like I never I'm not technical. Um you know what it was? I think like exactly a year ago, I think I watched a podcast of like someone being like, I'm 23 and I made like a billion dollars whatever and I was like, oh like and I think so something that happens to me is like the universe like kind of just like makes things obvious for me. Like it'll just like I'll randomly start meeting people that are in the app world or I'll

24:27randomly start meeting people that are like, you know, doing this or that. So it was one of those things where it's like I saw that and then all of a sudden I start meeting all these app people and I was like, wow, so the most important thing is distribution. Without a doubt. And I was like, well that's something

24:43I'm good at. You've got that on lock. And right? And so I was like, it literally to me the way I saw it was I was like consumer apps or at least my app and those sorts of apps I was like it's literally like like TikTok shop but just like foreign app and a soft software. Um and I was like, why don't I do this? Like I I can make an incredible product. I have so many ideas of products I can make. Um I have the audience. That's the thing that so many of these tech founders are missing. Like they'll build the most incredible product and then they're like

25:15they either have to raise to like pay ads or exactly and that's always the problem is like how do we distribute? Whereas I was like that problem solved for me. So how do I build a product that's good? Um and also I just like was obsessed with the idea. I also just didn't know a lot of female tech founders and I was like, why don't I like uh you know, uh pioneer in

25:34the space kind of? I I had this conversation with a friend recently where I feel like there's the majority of software engineers are men. Mhm. The majority of startup founders are men. Yeah. And men are building products that they know need to exist and there is this huge market, huge market to build products for women.

25:50Yes. Especially technical products like apps. And like we have we've had this sort of like vibe coding explosion in the US over the last few years where like everyone's building apps now. But for the most part my friends who vibe code it's still the guys. And there's all these things that the girls want to see built. And like like I I was saying the other day like there's no like like I think there was a post on Instagram the other day that was like someone needs to

26:10build a palm reading app. Yeah. like scans your palm and it would print money. But guys aren't even thinking about this stuff. It would bring money. [clears throat] Like a like a makeup app or like they don't even know these problems exist. Exactly. Exactly. deal with these problems but don't have a solution cuz a lot of them are non-technical. Now with cloud code and and you know, whatever it's like that gap is like decreasing now. So like now women can actually build products and something I say all the time is I think women are going to dominate tech. In the next 5 years it's honestly I think the

26:40most successful tech founders are going to be women. I I would agree. Yeah. I I think this leads naturally into our your audience is primarily like 22 to 25-ish year old women. Mhm. What do startup founders not understand about selling to that audience? Cuz that's a lucrative audience that does spend money on things that they want, and it's a very big audience, especially

26:57in the US. Yeah. Well, I think the first thing is people just don't even know what problems exist. Like I don't think a guy would have thought of a Stella, you know? Like you know? [laughter] Or like I don't know, like um I don't know, there's just so many female problems that are like untapped in the market. Um and so I think like the biggest thing is they just don't even know these problems exist cuz they're not talking to women. Also like tech bros are not actively you know. So I think that's the first thing. And then I think I think something really interesting I'm seeing is like a lot of

27:31technical people partnering with influencers or content creators or like even just like women who can help on product, and that's been like revolutionary for so many like co-founder relationships. Um But yeah, I think that's [snorts] like a big thing that's missing is people just don't know what needs to be solved. So what's been the hardest part of

27:53pivoting to an app founder persona? Honestly, it's been more great than problematic to be honest. It's been fantastic. It's been like it I think the thing that I didn't expect was how much I would love this. This is so rewarding to be able to like build something and use it every day and like it I feel like

28:12I'm in science fair or something. [laughter] I feel like a kid again. It's so cool and you can always make it better and innovate like that like I think the other thing is I think about the fact that my app couldn't have really existed a few years ago because it's like it's using like um you know, like voice AI voice technology and like

28:28a lot of this AI stuff that's new. And I think that's so cool cuz then I think about the fact of where is this app going to be 2 years from now, right? And to be on the edge of AI and like constantly innovating is so awesome. Um the other thing is again because there aren't that many women who are building

28:45there's not a lot of competition. And so you cuz you have a personal brand. So by that you have distribution. Now you have a tech product as well. You didn't take venture capital funding. Yeah. Do you need it? No. So this is the crazy thing, right? Because it's almost like all profit, which is so cool. Like [laughter] I mean obviously there's some expenses, but like for the most part it's like instant profit and I don't need venture capital and we're we just started trying out paid ads, but like it up to this point we haven't even done paid ads and we've been making like great revenue and so

29:21I think that's just the power of working with someone who has a personal brand. Um and again like I think women want to have apps. They just don't The other piece of this is like women don't even know what clout is. Like it's really that bad. Like some women don't even know that it like let alone clout code.

29:36Like they don't even know what clout is. So there's just a big gap in the genders on like technology and um yeah, understanding. So speaking to a young founder now, if you were talking to someone who was you know early 20s, wanted to build, coming out of college, no idea what to do with their life, what's something that they

29:54should do day one Monday? Post online. Like post content. I think once you have a personal brand you could sell anything. Like I could sell air and it'll sell. [laughter] Honestly, like I could sell anything because it's like people are bought in on me, right? And so they're going to trust anything I sell them. And they know I mean at this point they've like bought in so for so many years. So like I think what I would do is just like post content, build a personal brand because at that point then you don't need venture capital. And you know what I mean? And then like you could sell anything. Like it's it's

30:29just it's so great. Um obviously there's another route you could go which is like you could raise and like that's absolutely amazing, too, but it's just like we live in just such a unique time where like again, you could just go viral like tomorrow. And I think the biggest thing stopping people is, again, limiting beliefs or the fear of being seen. Like, people think it's cringe, and I'm like, your mindset is costing

30:50you millions of dollars. I completely agree. I I have a close friend who is building a CPG brand in Los Angeles. And she said to me the other day, she was like, my number one advice for young founders is to be post-cringe. Like, you need to the valley of cringe, and you need to not care, and you need to be on the

31:05other side of that valley. Climb cringe mountain. No one is like someone's going to like beat you up in the street cuz you made a bad Tik Tok. No. And you know what I'm like, you know what? If they cringe, if I cringe, okay, but I'm going to have a successful business. Like, it's like it's so worth it. Like, it's so worth it. So, just like I always tell people, I'm like, the only thing stopping you from posting, if you're being honest with yourself, is your fear of being seen. And that mindset blockage is costing you millions

31:30of dollars. 100% agree. And actually, I almost feel the opposite, which is when I see someone putting themselves out there, I actually really respect it. Yeah. And I respect it even more if their videos are flopping. Yeah. Mhm. Yes. called it out. Like, keep going. Like, this is sick. I know this person has grit. They got the dog in them. I'm like,

31:46Yes. Yeah, it's super important. It is. It is. And it really doesn't even like you don't need millions of followers to have a successful app. That's the other thing. Um, so, yeah. But, it's been amazing being a tech founder. Like, I much prefer it to every other thing I've ever done. I love that. Yeah. And also, working with co-founders

32:02is amazing. [laughter] So, it still feels like Stella kind of came out of nowhere. Yeah. when I first saw it, I was like super excited for you. Was it driven by any kind of like motivation outside of business? Yeah, for sure. So, I was going through a heartbreak, and I think like I always

32:19Yeah. [laughter] It's okay. Um, but I think like, um, for one, I always I always profit off my pain. So, that's like a rule I have in life is I'm like, if I'm getting heartbroken, I'm making millions of dollars. There's just [laughter] no There's our founder right there. Profit off pain. Profit off your pain. Um, and I genuinely think like spite is the greatest motivator that exists in the world. Like truly, and I know that's a hot take. Um, but I'm just like I just refuse to be hurt and not alchemize the pain into something in my life. And I just there's nothing in the world that

32:55is like poverty doesn't even motivate me as much as spite has. To be able to like it's like a justice. Like it's You know what I'm saying? Like to to create something from a place of I'm doing this for me to prove to myself that I stand up for myself, I defend myself, like I have me. And I mean, truthfully that spite has motivated me for months. Like to this point, I started building Stella like

33:19months ago. And it hasn't gone anywhere. Whereas like money motivation comes and goes. Um, even intrinsic motivation for the good of all and all that stuff, like I love it, but like there going to be hard days and then it's not as exciting, right? But to be motivated by something that's like this is for me and to prove to myself that no one can take away my success. No one can stand in the way of

33:43like what like my future. Bro, like that will keep you going. Do you feel comfortable sharing the source of the spite? Um, let's just say let's say also you know what? I'll say it. I won't say names or anything, but I was in a relationship where I just felt like I had to choose between my career and um, and this I this person actually didn't want me

34:04building this app. So funny enough. Um, and I was put in a position where I was like I have to choose between Out of jealousy for your success or like Honestly, yeah. Like it was that. Um, and and like just I mean, I feel not to get into the specifics, but like I didn't know much about the app world, so he would say things that like made me

34:24believe like it was like a valid reason. I don't know. But um, yeah, I think and that's that's honestly a hard part about being like a female like a successful woman in general is like it's hard to date. Like it really is hard to date because like it's threatening. It kind of is threatening to men who aren't in the same, you know, on the same level or like, you know, whatever. And it's hard because you are constantly put in the situation where you feel like you have to choose between your career or like

34:53making a man comfortable. And I did choose him and that was like one of the biggest mis- It wasn't even a mistake. I honestly think it had to happen that way cuz if that didn't happen, I wouldn't have ended up in New York. I wouldn't have built this app. I wouldn't have scaled it as fast as I have. Everyone's like, I mean, there's like Twitter threads being like, "How did this girl 300k MRR in 2 months?" And I'm like, "It's spite." Like it was that heartbreak. It's I don't I don't know what to tell [laughter] you. Like get your heart broken. Like

35:19Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I felt like it was yeah, because I chose him and I didn't choose this app. I was like, "Well, now I'm going to choose this app more than I choose anything and I owe this to myself." That's incredible. Yeah. There's a um there's a study that I often think of. It's It's one of those things that it's sort of like unfortunate when you know it. Like it's one of those facts you you wish you didn't know. Uh but that's a lot of the most successful founders of all time, a lot of the most successful people full stop have come from a childhood of some

35:50pain. Mhm. Like an absent father being like a classic example. Yeah. With and then it's given them this immense spite for the world and something like a big chip on their shoulder to go and prove. And this is seen time and time again in every single industry. And as like a young man hearing that where you're like you want to be a really good dad one day. I'm like, [laughter] you know, and then it's like is the lesson that you need to be absent to your children if you want them to succeed which I don't think that that's I I don't think that's the lesson, of course. I I want

36:14to be a very present dad. But um but I think that there is truly something to be said. Spite is extremely motivating. Pain is extremely motivating and like really like gets you in that place. But uh having said that, I do have a quote for you here. Ooh. Success can feel just as lonely as

36:31struggle. Ooh. And uh what is an example of that from this year? Mhm. I think truly like this breakup experience was an example of that. Like where I was like I have to choose myself in this moment. But I also think like outgrowing so many friendships um where it's just like it's so lonely to like win and not be

36:54able to tell anyone. Yeah. I think It's a lonely feeling. And um or to be like yeah, to have to hide your wins or have to hide your pain. Like it's just like you you could be surrounded by so many people and still feel so alone. Um like luckily now I have like so many friends that are also founders. But there was like a season there where like I wasn't you aren't fully There's a season you go through where you're not fully like still with your like day ones, but you're also not fully with the founder community yet and you're like in that in between and you're like wow, I'm

37:23truly alone right now. And you have to make it through. And yeah, I'm glad I did. But it was it's there have been extremely lonely chapters. Honestly, moving to New York was like one of the best decisions I made ever for that. Yeah. Location changes everything. Fastest way to like like I think like uh moving is a portal,

37:43honestly. I made a video on this where I think uh there's a Naval Ravikant quote that the most important three things are where you are, what you're doing, and who you're doing it with. Yeah. you know those three, it's very hard to fail. And I adore my straight friends so much. They're the best people in the world. None of them wanted to be startup founders. And but they're all doing amazing things. They're like doctors and lawyers and engineers. And I love them and I go to the weddings and it's the best. But when I moved to San Francisco, I felt more like I'd found the people

38:06who had my interests and it was so much easier for me to start building and like like conquering the business world. It's almost inevitable. When you're in certain places, it's inevitable. by it. And which it's not a discredit to like my former friend group. They're the best people ever, but they we had misaligned interests.

38:21Yeah. And now like almost everyone in my life is like a founder or building a brand or building something and it it's like really like meaningfully changed. I think you that people always say you're the product of the five people you hang with the most and it's it's overwhelmingly true. It's so true. It is so true. And you you

38:35start to realize that it compounds. Yeah. Yeah. So we are going to manifest something right now. Ooh. You're coming back on the show in a year. And [laughter] what are we projecting? What are we manifesting one year from now? I'm going to start I want 100,000 YouTube subscribers. Ooh, okay, that's done. Yes. I can see it. I can see that

38:56number. I see the YouTube plaque. I see the YouTube plaque. see the plaque. I'm going to be holding it on the show in a year in one year's time. Yes. What about you? Um I would love a million users on Stela and um I to hit number one in health and fitness on the App Store.

39:13Let's go. And a mil MR. So final final remarks for our listeners. If someone watching this takes one piece of advice from you, Mm. what is it? No pressure. Um hm. You will always become what you think about. You will always become what you believe. Like I believe in the law of law of assumption so much. Um you your assumptions create your reality. And when you know that, that is all you have to do. Honestly, I think people think it's about hard work, it's about grit. I think it's more so like there have been things in my life that like have landed in my lap. I can't explain. Miracles have

39:52happened. And the only thing I can like trace it back to is I just believed it was possible. Beautiful. And so if you believe you have to work hard to get what you want, you will. Right? And if you believe you can have it easy, you probably will. Um and I always say I get paid to exist because [laughter] I just like I've just And because I say it so often, I've just attracted systems

40:14in my life that have made that possible. But also I do work that I love so much that it never feels like I'm ever working. I would do it for free. So, I think um just watch what you think, and assume the best-case scenario, believe you're the luckiest person alive, believe that miracles can come to you, believe that it can be easy, and then

40:34watch what happens. Sarah Perl, hot high priestess on Instagram and TikTok, founder of the app Stellar. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been such a pleasure having you. And uh I can't wait to see you in a year. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you.