The Psychology of Exiting Your Company with Dr. Sherry Walling

0:00this is hard and exits unfortunately are very hard four years ago I stood on this stage or a stage like it a microcomp stage and spoke to you a little bit about the Neuroscience of your relationship with your company specifically we talked about how your brain perceives your business very similarly to how a parent perceives their own child so insert your logo here I actually studied this there was a study that looked at functional MRIs and asked entrepreneurs to think about an image of their business or they were presented with an image of their business and they looked at which brain activities were active and then they did

0:51the same thing with parents and then did a comparison to see how the brains differed and it turns out they didn't differ very much so a few things were happening specifically there were parts of the brain where the activity was suppressed and that suppression occurred in areas of the brain that are active in critical assessment which means that you all your brains are really biased when it comes to thinking about your business the other part of the brain that really showed some interesting activity was an enhanced activity in the parts of the brain that are responsible for the reward center that sense of delight and satisfaction that we get when we think

1:31about our beautiful perfect above average children and also our businesses so just like everyone in this room is clearly raising the smartest best looking most interesting child everywhere let's acknowledge that we are not necessarily very clear-minded when it comes to thinking about the way that we feel about or our relationship with our business good news is it is possible to have a healthy and satisfying relationship with your business but relationships change over time especially relationships between parents and children same child so what happens when that beautiful adorable delightful business baby begins to grow up and they join a punk band and they get tattoos and they start having sex and

2:27smoking marijuana and entering this world of making their own choices it's gonna be fine right the thing about parents and children is if we do a good job raising our kids they will outgrow us they will become autonomous independent functioning individuals who do not need to live in our basement it is the dream of all parents everywhere it's actually not so different with our business if we do a good job with our business it will probably leave us in fact I can even use stronger language your relationship with your business will end it will end because you exit you sell it it will end because you go public and

3:16somebody kicks you out it will end because maybe you hire someone to take over the day-to-day running of the business or maybe you will shut it down maybe you need to shut it down maybe you decide to shut it down or maybe you die which could also happen and that would definitely end your relationship with your business death and taxes the things that are absolutely certain in our lives I want to tell you that it's important to start thinking about the ending no matter where you are in the process because unplanned unintentional endings are not Bueno they are messy they are painful and the optimal outcome is that you are

4:01very thoughtful about what the trajectory of ending looks like of course all of us and 75 percent of Founders on the most recent state of independent SAS identified that they are hoping for an exit so all of us have a little bit of a fantasy in the back of our minds about people lining up with buckets of cash to give us hundreds of millions of dollars to take over the privilege of caring for intending our little business baby we believe that of course at some point someone's going to give us a lot of cash and maybe a McLaren or maybe a pony or maybe a pony

4:36driving a McLaren but I couldn't find that photo so if somebody can hook me up that'd be great the fantasy is fantastic and it's full of you know it's it's sort of widely pervade and podcast interviews and conversations people stand on this stage and some people in this community have had and will have fabulous exits despite my Sunny disposition trapeze people I often have the role in this community of reminding people of a simple fact this is hard and exits unfortunately are very hard even if you get a pony exiting is a messy psychological process just like what it feels like to raise that sweet little baby and have them get

5:35big and unwieldy and then eventually leave and several people in this room are about to go through this process as they launch children onto college it's delightful it's exciting but it's also painful and it's messy exiting in particular is emotional it requires an extraordinary amount of focus over a long period of time it messes with our identity our sense of ourselves it also messes with our sense of meaning of what we're trying to do and accomplish in the world and it is challenging for all of our personal and professional relationships there is this untold story about the level of depression and kind of mental health implosion that many Founders

6:19experience in the midst of in following an exit and again I want to reiterate it can even be a very positive exit it is possible to have a very good thing happen and also feel a lot of emotional turmoil or conflict those can coexist at the same time talk to anybody who's had a baby or gotten married or has a new job or had some major change happen that's also accompanied by a sense of disorientation inner disorientation so how do you prepare for this messy process of exiting I'm so glad you asked that's what we're going to talk about it is worth some emotional preparation to get ready

7:04I also want to be clear that this talk is not a deep dive into how to prepare your business for an exit I will defer you to the number of folks in this room who have lots of experience helping businesses prepare that would be the Quiet Light Team the discretion team there's some folks from Fe International here I am talking about preparing yourself for that exit for that transition so there are six factors that I think in my experience working with entrepreneurs over the years seem to shape the psychology of an exit shape how we feel about the process there are probably more but these are the ones

7:49that really kind of rose to the top as I thought about this number one is understanding your motivations for the exit is it purely Financial is there a wonderful Market opportunity is there some time Limited ability to have a strategic acquisition with your optimal sort of business babysitter partner Next Step or are there also some inner factors at play maybe some burnout maybe some fatigue some depression being really clear about what is motivating an exit helps you to be clear about what success looks like what you really really want and I it seems straightforward like everybody wants the buckets of money and the pony obviously but this is a thing

8:38that requires I think a little bit more parsing when we really get to this point is doing the Deep dive to understand our motivations number two important factor tolerance for uncertainty and I know you all signed up for this on day one when you're like I'm gonna start a business tolerance for uncertainty is your bread and butter but I want to again warn predict that the level of uncertainty escalates in the exit process it's in many ways a new ball game and it is on top of the amount of uncertainty that already exists in your business and in your life so Founders who have a high tolerance for

9:22uncertainty seem to do okay here but regardless it's going to require all of your coping skills to sort of rise to the level of this challenge the coping skills that are positive and the coping skills that are maybe less positive number three is stamina ask any founder exits take longer and are more complicated and thwarted than really anyone imagines even if you have that wonderful strategic buyer and the price point seems to be agreeable and it just seems like everything is lining up I promise you it will take longer than it seems like it should and it will be a little bit messier than expected number four is really getting clear

10:09about our psychology around our relationship with our team do we see our team as a family do we see our team as just a utilitarian Workforce that we pay to do a thing and it's sort of nice and simple what does it feel like to think about or engage in a process where we are setting ourselves up to make a pile of money that may mean that everyone in that team doesn't have a job anymore the relationship and the intricacy our sense of responsibility to them becomes pretty important in this exiting dynamic number four the sense in which our identity is merged with our business and this is Again part of that reality

11:00of what's happening in our brains when we put so much of ourselves into something of course we're connected to our business of course it's an extension of us of course we're in some ways merged but Founders who have other parts of their life that they love Founders who Find meaning and engagement in other things tend to go through the exiting process a little bit easier when we are leaving our business if it feels like we're cutting off our own arm that's going to be a little bit psychologically complicated for us to Wade through and then of course number six is the big question that is in the back of the mind

11:41of every founder who is considering an exit and by the big question what do I mean anybody what's next this question can be something that haunts the exiting process or it can be like a North star that helps people get through but in any event this is an important part of the equation right from the beginning of the exit sort of thought process so I'd like to tell you the story of three exits and then we'll analyze them a little bit through these sort of six factors that I've identified these are real stories but I have de-identified the specifics of the individuals and businesses involved and

12:30in some cases I've sort of combined a couple of exits just for you know storytelling purposes um but I just want to assure you that these are actual situations and they are situations that were experienced by people similar to folk in this room people with similar values similar Ambitions similar similar level of insight and of course similar level of exit motivation so case study one this is a Founder who began to have an inkling that they wanted to do something else they were running a profitable business that was very highly automated actually they had a team of contractors like in the 10 neighborhood of 10 contractors

13:17and the business was profitable without a ton of work it wasn't quite the four hour work week but it was maybe like the 25 hour work week and so this founder felt like they wanted to exit but also was kind of like does this make sense because this is making a lot of money and it's not taking me a lot of time so maybe I should just you know let the wheels churn so as they began thinking about this process with some advice and wisdom from others they decided to kind of test out the exit thesis like do I really want to be done so as an interim they decided to hire an

13:54operator to take over the day-to-day operations and that gave the founder time to kind of get the lay of the land to understand maybe what their motivations were what was going on with themselves and also what it would look like for the business to be able to run more autonomously without their direct involvement and of course it took a little bit more direct involvement from them than they would have wished but over the course of this time the interim time where there was an operator in place they decided that they did indeed wish to sell the business they just wanted to do something else and wanted the clarity

14:32they also came to recognize that they were experiencing quite a lot of burnout and so this interim time this year of waiting allowed them to kind of heal from burnout enough for that not to be the driving motivator for the sale so when this business was listed for sale the process went very smoothly as I mentioned this is a highly Automated Business very systematized profitable like kind of ready to sell uh what do they call that curb ready when your house is ready to go anyway it's that this process went pretty smoothly and in total from the very beginning of their kind of inkling of maybe I should sell

15:14to the completion of the sale process was about 18 months given how smooth this went it may surprise you to learn that at the completion of the exit this person experienced a pretty significant depression really kind of imploded and had almost a mental health crisis they felt lost and listless and just totally uncertain about who they were and what they wanted and what was important to them so thinking about this from the um internal or from these motivations this person had a pretty internal motivation which means that they were really emotionally driven to sell there wasn't really a financial need to sell it was like I'm tired of this I don't

16:03want to do it um and so this is where I think it was helpful to have that Gap that time to really assess is this truly my North Star of I'm done or is this more of a temporal sense of disease that's going to pass with some rest this person had a pretty moderate tolerance for uncertainty they were really good at planning and good at executing they also had a high degree of stamina right they were willing to set up this interim solution and wait for it and see how it would go and let it unfold over time they were patient they also had a team that was pretty

16:39designed for an exit right a bunch of contractors TurnKey ready and was easy to facilitate that transition when it was time the thing that I think was a little tricky for this person is that they did have a pretty high level of fusion with their business they'd been running their business really their whole adult life and it really felt like very much part of them and even though they wanted to let it go it was really uh jarring to what it felt like to suddenly have nothing to do on Tuesday after the docs were signed interestingly they also gave really minimal consideration to the next question to the what's next question

17:23rather and I think in a way this is kind of a sign that there was something in them that maybe wasn't quite ready to make the transition they weren't even like doing the noodling of like oh I could open a go-kart school or sell duck boats like it was it was just sort of all focused on the exit and then done so I think this is an interesting sort of mishmash right in many ways financially successful easy straightforward and then emotionally really complicated in a way that maybe nobody could have predicted wasn't expected all right number two uh this was a larger team so this is a

18:04Founder who was running a company of in the neighborhood of 60 to 80 and they were on fire like doing super well really big growth they were approached by a number of interested buyers and really got the exit wheels turning when you know people are recording them so they were in like I said this growth mode things were firing they were those people were really lining up with the buckets of money and the pony I don't know about the McLaren but there was definitely a pony involved if after some advice and thought and counsel this founder decided that they did indeed wanted to sell but they

18:43wanted to wait a little bit and jump a revenue Benchmark that was going to result in a better multiple they really wanted this to be a big number exit and they thought it was possible with kind of another year of strategic growth the thing that got a little tricky for this founder is that the minute that acquisition conversation started happening they began to Noodle on this big question of what's next and their noodling turned into actually starting another business while also trying to really amplify the growth of business one and this created a number of problems as you might imagine it created a lot of problems with their own focus with their

19:25capacity for attention with their energy and stamina but it also created a lot of relationship problems the leaders in their team didn't really have insight into their plans and didn't really know what was going on they just know that their leader seemed pretty checked out and was passing along a lot of pressure and a lot of expectation that seemed to come out of nowhere there just wasn't clear communication about this is what we're doing and this is why and you know everybody go that way rah-rah rah it also caused a lot of strain and stress in their family life because they'd gone from a robust fairly stable

20:05business to suddenly amplifying the growth of business one and starting business too so where they had been a fairly you know engaged home at five for dinner kind of parents all of a sudden there's sort of nowhere to be found which nobody was super happy about So eventually they did list the business for sale and they got that beautiful multiple that they wanted they got the big pile of money however they lost some key team members right at the end and needed them to take a longer earn out than they wanted to so they were sort of strapped to the business for longer than they desired

20:45unfortunately this has also kind of served to sabotage the new business right they have even less time than they thought previously to be able to work on that business so let's look at this from our six factors external motivation big pile of money low tolerance for uncertainty actually they were looking to make that plan and make the sure thing pretty right away right weren't even letting the process play out they've wanted to nail down what was going to happen next and really weren't very patient with that process unfolding and their stamina was pretty low given how divided their attention was and I want to say I'm probably the way

21:29that I'm telling this story it might be easy to sit in your seat and think well I would never do that obviously I would never start a new business while my other business was growing and needing to be sold but also remember who y'all are as entrepreneurs and the ideas and the problems have become interesting and the shiny objects that are tantalizing especially when you know that the thing that you've been giving all of your passion and attention to is on the way out so finding a new thing to put your passion and attention towards actually like a pretty reasonable and common coping strategy because they decided to divide their

22:10attention in that way it did create a pretty complicated relationship with their team they didn't really think about the team or factor the team in they didn't think about how to lead through an exit they didn't think about who and the team maybe needed to be part of the conversation or part of the plan and pretty much botched the communication such that by the time that the company sold as I mentioned they'd lost some key people and it was kind of just a really rough situation for everybody so their identity wasn't necessarily tied to this business but it was tied to being a Founder they couldn't imagine

22:45themselves without a company to run and of course they really rushed that big question okay okay study number three this is another high Growth Company grew really big or grew really fast rather a team of 20 to 30. but this company had some platform vulnerability they were a rising rocket ship but had sort of got their fuel from only one source and it became evident at some point in their growth that their vulnerability was going to be a problem and so the founder decided that it was important to begin an exit process to sell while selling was possible so by the time that they began to think

23:32about this their sort of stability in their growth began to decrease it's also worth mentioning that this founder wanted to run this business for a long time they had developed a lot they've given a lot of resources put a lot of time and energy into developing a team and into really creating a company culture that was sustainable for a long period so this was really a case of need to sell not want to sell they tried to keep the team employed as long as possible but as their growth numbers plummeted eventually they had to cut the team and this or most of the team rather but

24:12this founder did a good job in terms of like talking with the team about what was happening and having key team members involved in the process so as much as possible those key relationships were maintained and people were able to find a soft Landing because they had some insight into the fact that this dismantling was going to happen we can talk in the Q a about the pros and cons of telling teams at different points it's a pretty complicated question but in this case the founder was very thoughtful about it and I think it it served him well so this business eventually was sold for parts it was not a great exit in terms

24:52of finances it was not what anybody would have hoped but I will tell you I've rarely seen a Founder be so relieved and feel so positively about the exit process so even though it wasn't maybe what they had hoped in terms of the financial gain it was what they needed in terms of the emotional freedom from this business that they knew had some kind of fragility in a way that was going to be a problem so here we see again external motivation this is something is happening in the world around them that they needed to sell the business wasn't sustainable the way that it was a tolerance for uncertainty some stamina

25:32this was a very uh start and stop kind of sale process lots of things kind of fell apart and had to start again they had a connected relationship with the team and they were clear about what they wanted to do for their team in the exit process and their identity I think was based more in being a leader than in being a founder or being the founder of this business which served them well ultimately and they did have a good outcome with the big question actually I didn't mention that but they decided to start another business that had nothing to do with technology after taking a few

26:09months off so they had some clarity into what they were doing and why so let's unpack these stories a little bit take home thing that I want to really clearly communicate is that there is no perfect exit that whether we do everything right and build our business in the most strategic thoughtful way exits are always a little bit tricky so again in case one we see this strategic and intentional sale kind of textbook in the way that it progressed financially successful but created a personal crisis in case two financially successful but created relationship chaos and potentially sabotage the next company and then in Story three we see kind of a

26:54fire sale not the kind of sale that anybody would want it wasn't financially lucrative but the founder experienced a high degree of relational cohesion and frankly a lot of emotional satisfaction is like getting through the process the way that they did so when it comes to exits and what it means to have a good exit it depends our favorite answer forever but I will say that there are folks who will sell you sort of an exit roadmap and while there is certainly value in understanding some of the strategy behind exits anything that is directed to the sale of your business is highly dependent on your context who you are

27:36what your business is what your team is so you should hear the term it depends when you are thinking about and seeking counsel when it comes to an exit do a few things that I have learned in these conversations with founders first recommendation focus on the external motivations for an exit the growth of the business the value of the business the Strategic acquirer the opportunities that are maybe time Limited this is a business decision in a business transaction and it should be driven by metrics and I say this as somebody who spends a lot of time talking about and thinking about feelings I really care about

28:25people's internal state but when it comes to the sale and exit of a business to the extents possible we want to counteract the level of emotional connection that we have with our business we want to put that in check as much as we can remember our brains are not they're they're biased right we struggle with critical assessment when it comes to our own business and we struggle with emotional Detachment so the extent to which you can kind of rein in your emotion helps us when you know on the days as a parent when it feels like yeah my eight-year-old's probably ready to move out like they seem done maybe I'm done

29:12with them maybe they're done with me let's be done everybody feels that way probably not the best emotional situation in which you want to uh make really important life lifelong decisions I also want to say to speak out the other side of my thought process coming back to the it depends term I also want to acknowledge that if you were really unhappy you don't have to stay you can sell you can hire somebody you don't have to be the long-suffering founder it's all right to change your mind and it's all right to do something else so you heard me say that right okay I really like the situation that founder

30:02one tried which is this sense that I'm not feeling this anymore what is a way to test out whether this is a transient feeling or a permanent feeling so taking a sabbatical could we normalize people doing that every four years or so anyway hiring an operator doing things that or even changing up your your job situation or your task list doing things that give you a reprieve or a break from the demands of running the company so that you can get some clarity about whether your internal state is again permanent or transient whenever possible just to reiterate those external factors are going to be extraordinarily important in guiding

30:46your decision of when to sell here's another one proactively plan for uncertainty it's a little bit ironic right like proactively plan for the thing that you don't know how it's going to go and what it's going to be like but there are a few things you do now if you are moving towards an exit if you are seriously considering an exit or even if you're just noodling on it because you think you're one of the 75 of people who thinks that maybe that's how this ending is going to happen you're gonna need some help you're probably gonna want a broker you're definitely going to want a lawyer you

31:19might need an accountant a therapist a mastermind somebody who or a team of people rather who can support you during this process so best to get those people in order now plan for them begin Gathering them so that you aren't frantically trying to like who do I need for this what do I need for that be proactive plan ahead you also know that you are preparing your business to go on without you so doing some of those strategic things that John probably talked about in The Quiet Light conversation yesterday getting your business ready to be a grown-up teaching your child how to fold their clothes and drive a car and do all

32:04of the things that are important and their fully functioning adulthood same thing with your business another thing that is really important in this sort of planning proactively through the uncertainty is getting as clear as possible about what really matters to you what is your ultimate goal and desire for your exit we are all in Minneapolis right now because when Rob went to sell drip we decided moving is on the table for us we want this number and we're willing to move to get it if that's what it takes so that just conversation between the two of us was extraordinarily important in being super clear about what were our

32:55non-negotiables and what we were really open to what kind of levers that we were willing to pull to get the deal that was desirable and look how it turned out here we are Minneapolis another thing to do as much as you can to internally prepare for the exit process is to get your mind around this unpredictable timeline one of the things that I often talk with clients about is how to learn to time travel how to have your energy and your mindset in multiple time Dimensions at one time it's not easy but it's really important because you are ostensibly going to continue running the day-to-day of your business and need to be super

33:39present for your real life as it's happening right now in front of your eyes with your family with your friends and with the day-to-day tasks of your business but also you've now acquired a second job which is totally in the future and this Future Part of you is going to be thinking about what happens next and what are you planning for as you think about the details of the business that or the details of the deal that you want and what you're advocating for so you really do exist in two time Dimensions at one time and it sounds kind of silly but sometimes I will recommend that people like put it on

34:15their calendar like now I'm in this time and in for this segment of my day for these three hours of my Tuesday I'm going to be in the future I'm going to be having conversations with my future self thinking about future plans and really moving towards this outcome that's in the future I think this is one of those things that's actually sneaky hard it's Sneaky hard to divide your attention like this so heads up about that also you gotta connect with your inner stoic your inner capacity to detach because I think it's helpful or maybe mandatory to have a walk away mindset what happens is people begin to think

35:00about sort of in my second story they begin to think about life on the other side and they begin to maybe spend their money they begin to plan their activities start their next company when the deal is not done and when the deal is not done until that money is in your account the deal can fall apart and you will save yourself an extraordinary amount of disappointment and heartache if you can somehow build some walls around that part of you that's like woohoo I'm free I'm free I'm free here's what's next here's what's next but to be willing to walk away from the deal that you don't want and be willing

35:44or be able to bounce back when the deal that you really did want falls apart for factors that may be entirely outside of your control be ready to walk away be non-attached be as emotionless as possible which again I know is hard because you love that sweet baby so much and you've put so much invested so much in them another tip be clear about your attachment to your team and again this is highly personalized this is really very dependent on how you understand who those team members are what your responsibility is to them is it very important for you that they go on with an acquisition is it very important for

36:31you that they have a choice is it important for you that they get some kind of payout or or does it not matter that much and it's okay if it doesn't matter that much there's no moral imperative here but it's very important that you are very clear because if you're not there's a lot of angst that can happen when you feel like maybe you've let the team down or maybe the team had very different expectations of you maybe you commit communicate a different expectations than you were able to deliver so being very very clear and honest and open with yourself about that the thing that makes exits really hard

37:06is that they involve a new identity we do most of our identity formation as humans in our adolescence and early adulthood so to be kind of 40 something and starting over is a weird thing it's an unusual thing for most people in their careers and it can have those moments as I mentioned of listlessness of depression of feeling like who am I and what do I have to communicate or what do I have to contribute and I think the best thing that I can say about that is tolerated is be present to it is sit with it is acknowledge that it is really uncomfortable but also kind of amazing

37:58to be this sort of moldable clay at this point another thing that's helpful to think about when you consider your post-exit identity is to recognize that you will always get credit you will always be associated with that company you will always be so-and-so's parent you will always be the co-founder of drip there is always that part of you it doesn't go away when you sell the company but sometimes it's nice to be like no I didn't pick that color I didn't pick that design change

38:35it's also important here in this identity formation again to be really grounded in the other parts that are important to you as much as I would love to say you are not your business we already know that's not true your business is your baby we've established that you're going to be committed and connected but you're also committed and connected to other things so give those parts of you some fire give those parts of you some extra energy to help offset some of the sense of listlessness and sort of identitylessness that you may feel following an exit next hard idea and thing to just be aware of is the exits involve grief

39:15there was a company it was yours it's not there anymore that is the definition of loss something was there and it's not anymore and again even if it's a great exit and you get the pony there's sadness there's loss there so don't don't fight that don't pretend that it shouldn't be that way one of the things that I thought a lot about and talked with people a lot about during the pandemic is the process of having a funeral or a memorial service for a business because many businesses didn't survive and many Founders were struggling with how do I honor that this horrible thing is happening and what do I do to help

39:58myself and help my team move through the emotional work of saying goodbye and letting go same is true with an exit even though maybe it's maybe it's an end in your choosing it's still an ending so finding ways to memorialize to get the team together to say a few words about what it meant and felt like to work at the company to all get matching tattoos of the logo if you if you see Rob's arm

40:31and I'm saying goodbye to it now give yourself the emotional space to process to have a ritual to have a community around that and of course the question what's next I think a lot of Founders get Tangled in this because they feel like they need to prove that they can do it again and I think that's if you grow a company and have the exit that you desire just take the win just take the win I know that we honor and respect serial Founders and that's cool but this pressure to jump right back in and prove that you can do it again is super unhelpful and I think it really

41:18clouds your sense of identity and your sense of what you really want for yourself I also think it's the misplaced ego just take the win celebrate the success some people in this room myself included we're not great at Stillness right we're Achievers we're boundary Breakers we're busy we don't sit down and we don't really know what to do when there's nothing to do and that is such a wonderful problem to work through so rather than jumping into the this is what's next this is my new plan this is what I'm doing I got a plan I feel comfortable and safe and secure because I got a plan

42:03tolerate the like I don't have a plan I'm gonna read some books I'm gonna take some time I'm gonna I don't know start building model trains do something with my hands think about different things please don't rush and please take time off please please for the love of God please your end of business plan should be something like sign docs receive cash take three months off and if the Stillness is uncomfortable to you give me a call I'll give you a reading list we'll make a plan of activities that you can fill your time with which will be meaningful and interesting and help you to reset

42:50so that you can really decide what's next but exiting doesn't have to be horrible but it will be hard and just a little introduction just so you know you can do everything right in your business and not have the kind of exit that you hope for sometimes it just goes that way it's a super unpredictable process so not getting a pony does not mean that you're not a really freaking good founder and that you didn't build a really great business it's going to be a little bit dramatic at moments but it's worth doing because what better thing to invest in to give yourself to than the creation of this business

43:34it's gonna get unwieldy but hopefully you will find your sense of contentment with whatever happens next so my advice to you is that you do begin with the ending and work your way backwards don't let it dwell in the land of fantasy get concrete have a notebook where you jot down your thoughts and ideas about hey this is the kind of eggs that I'd really want talk to people who have exited get as much detail as you can about the kind of deal that they got what they were happy about what they were unhappy about what they thought about so that you can have an exit that is as

44:13planned and thoughtful as possible and results in the kind of outcome that you want thank you [Applause]

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