# At 14 My Mom Wasn’t Coming Back. So I Became Our First Millionaire | Jun Yuh

Channel: Valeria Lipovetsky
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QFzma1DQs
Duration: 1 hr 17 min
Language: English
Words: 18362
Transcript page: https://viewrankai.com/tools/youtube-transcript/x9QFzma1DQs

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[0:00] What age did you realize that she will not show up in your life in the way that you needed? My mom, who's my best friend, I lost contact with her overnight and my parents actually divorced over the phone and then Have you done therapy? No, I haven't. Oh boy. [laughter] Oh my god. Junu is one of the most followed storytellers of his generation. At 25, he has built an audience of over 8 million people and a business that has generated over $17 million. Today on not alone, June on discipline, money and why [music] he

[0:28] thinks this is the age of trying again. What propelled you to put yourself online and be like this is my story. When I [music] first watched my old content, I felt really cringe. The moment I shared it, everything changed. You are the first millionaire in your family, which made me actually realize that I am too.

[0:44] Heck yeah. High five. When I first started earning money, I didn't touch it. Thought the next day it would go away. For me, it was like money [music] was evil because money was this thing where it caused so much tension and fighting. Oh my god. Yes. [music] That's literally all I've seen growing up. I call my online career the longest therapy of my life. It's such a beautiful mirror to yourself. Nothing tells you more about your [music]

[1:08] shadows and your light. I got goosebumps when you're talking about because it's exactly how I felt. I think this year is in general the year [music] of like trying hard. How you show up when things don't go well is the true sign of the reason that alone was created is to create a space where we can say the things that are on our minds out loud. I no longer want to see women have these internal conversations that make them feel lonely. So whenever I get a message from you, a DM, when you see me in person and share an episode that impacted you, that made you feel a

[1:46] certain way, that made you feel less alone, this is why we do what we do. So please follow and subscribe so we can continue having these conversations and feel that we are not alone. How long are you willing to be bad at something before you decide it's just not for you? Because I think so many of us quit right before we've given ourselves a real chance to get good. I think a lot of us also start working incredibly hard without ever stopping to ask what we're trying to prove. And that's what made me curious about Junu. When I learned that he's grown up with one parent absent, I

[2:25] saw a piece of my own story in there. I wanted to know how much of his drive came from loving the work and how much came from feeling like he had to become somebody after what happened to him in his childhood. And also the real question is once you've built something from that place, can your reason for doing it change? What stayed with me the most was something June said, the art is in trying. We talk about the years he spent making videos they weren't really good. um how he learned to improve and why discipline doesn't mean giving 150% every day. We also get into a harder

[3:03] question. What happens when the thing that pushed you forward starts asking too much of you? I know I've shared a little bit of my own process with you, so this was really insightful. If you're still figuring out what you're good at or you've gotten very good at pushing yourself and aren't sure how to stop, I think you find something for yourself in this conversation. Without further ado, let's welcome Junu. Okay, June, we're going to start in my favorite way ever to start a conversation, which is trauma

[3:34] bond. Okay, [laughter] understood. Hit me. What we got? Actually, when I started learning about your story, obviously from just what you're sharing online, but then diving a little bit deeper, it was really nice to find somebody that has a similar background and story to mine, which then made me go into a whole rabbit hole, which I'll take you with me. Okay, I'm excited. just about, you know, what is the motivation and where the drive is coming from, but I really want to kind of go back to that story because we have both experienced uh being raised by a single parent. Um, and being not having the other one in the

[4:11] picture. For myself, it was my father, for you it was your mother. So, take me back a little bit. Obviously, as comfortable as you are, uh, just sharing a little bit about that. Yeah. So I grew up with my mom being my best friend. My dad always worked construction and he was working there for 15, 16 hour days as long as I could remember. So he was never really present all the time, but my mom was. So me and her, we'd go to school together. She'd take me to school. We cook together. We do all those things together. She used to do nail tech work and it took a lot

[4:40] of stress on her body and I think it was because of her posture and therefore she had surgeries on her discs and at a certain point she had to retire from her work and she was home all the time. And I think what happened is that because she didn't speak English, she was home and she had nothing to do. And so her and I built this bond, but she wasn't doing anything else outside of it. So as I grew older and I got into middle school, I started to have more clubs and hobbies. I was hanging out with my friends more. And I think it just made

[5:02] her isolated more and more and more. So naturally, what happened is that my mom would go to Korea for longer stints. So she would go initially for her health and to be with her mom as well. But at a certain point, she actually stayed there. And so that's when my parents got divorced over the phone. What naturally happened is I had no idea what was going on. I just knew my mom was in Korea and now it felt really extended. So what used to be like a two week stint would now be like a three-w week stent. Then she would go back again. It'd be like a

[5:27] two-mon stint, a three-month stent. And at a certain point I had no idea if she was coming back. And that's when my older sister, so I have an older sister that's 10 years older than me and my brother who is four years older than me. And they were more aware, they were cognizant, they knew that I loved my mom

[5:40] so much, they were trying to protect me. And what happened is that my parents actually divorced over the phone. And so my mom, who is my best friend, I lost contact with her overnight and then didn't talk to her for 10 years. And so what naturally happened during that period of time is my dad who was already struggling in and of itself. He went through something really difficult, right? So he in his experience, he's like, I got to take care of the kids, but no one is present with June. No one is present with the kids. And and he felt this like immense amount of pressure. So that started to deteriorate

[6:07] who he was as well. And so my dad, who is the strongest person that I've ever met, all of a sudden looked like a shell of himself. And so at a young age, I recognized that and I thought, "No, no, it is up to me to try and figure this out." Like my older brother, my older siblings, my sister as well, I felt like they sacrificed way more. And because I was so young, I didn't have any responsibilities in the household. And so I thought it is up to me. Let me go figure it out. So I mean, back then, I wasn't necessarily a good student, but

[6:32] then I turned into a better student. And back then when I was trying to get internships and go to college for degrees and things of that nature, it was with that in mind of like I got to be the one to figure it out. I had no idea what the heck I was doing. And so like growing up seeing everything happen like every single day in middle school coming back and my dad was suffering. My my siblings were struggling. And we also come from a Korean background. So it's not something that you are explicitly loud about. You hide it. You feel shame about it. You feel guilty about it. So

[6:57] my dad started to withdraw from his communities and he would stop going to church. Like the people that were actually helping him, he stopped going to that. My siblings didn't talk about it. I didn't talk about it. So, what like happened is that life just went on and it just kept being this thing where we hid it more and more and more. And content was the first time that I actually said it aloud. And I think content is so interesting because when you do say it aloud, you start making sense of your own experience, too. And I started to find myself in ways that I didn't know before. And that's where

[7:21] everything really started beginning. Yeah. Okay. Okay. You really processed it clearly, but what age cuz you mentioned that. So you your story is a little bit different because mine was abandonment from a young age. You developed a relationship with your mother. So I I f feel it's probably harder. But at what age did you realize that she will not show up in your life in the way that you

[7:45] needed? It was about 14 years old when it fully processed that she wasn't coming back. So then you went into this like mode of like okay I'm on my own. Yeah. Basically and it was I I don't know if I ever thought of it like I'm going to do it on my own. And it just

[8:00] felt like there was no one else there. And it wasn't as if my friends knew about it, right? So I was just going to school like it was normal. And I was going trying to process it like it's normal. Even when we go to church on Sundays, I would go with my grandma and we just pretend like it's normal. And so when I was doing it for so long, I don't really think of it like, oh, I'm on my

[8:17] own. It's just no one else was there. And so after a while, you just had to kind of figure it out, right? Cuz if no one's coming to help you, you got to figure it out. And I think that's when I started to garner a level of of insecurities. Like I had so much insecurity growing up and I think it's because I didn't have anyone that shared my similar experience. Apparently I have you now. So that's great. We can be best friends at Traumop. [laughter] But yeah, that that's about the age of 13 14 years old when when I realized I was going to

[8:40] have to defend on myself. Have you done therapy? No, I haven't. Oh boy. [laughter] Oh my god. Maybe this will be therapy for so fun for you. You know, it's interesting because you're like 10 years younger than me, but I hear you speak on it and I see so much of myself and the way that I've used to talk about my story and my upbringing. I hear a lot of the same in

[9:03] how you tell your story. I see something happens I think not I think I know at around 30ome where it cracks. It's no longer serving you. So, understood. I see where you're at and I'm excited to call you in like 10 years and be like let's let's let's go back to that. But I also um I also know that you reconnected with her which was

[9:28] interesting. When did that happen? That happened the year I graduated. So that was about 2024. So after I graduated and basically I was getting both my bachelors and masters in biomedical engineering. So I didn't have time to do anything else. M and the moment I graduated, I went to take my siblings and go visit my mom. And so we went and visited her and I had got in contact with her probably a year before this had happened. And when I talked to her, every preconceived notion of what I thought about her during that 10 years just completely went away. Cuz I think what happens is that whenever

[10:00] you don't know what's going on, you make assumptions to make sense of your reality. But when I was on that phone call, what I thought was that this like angst and hatred and and disgust actually became this forgiveness almost immediately because I heard her voice and it wasn't as if she was proud of the decision she made. She also was living her life for the first time. And so for me at that stage, I I actually had a lot of empathy for her. And so the moment that happened, I mean, I did everything that I could to take care of her. I wasn't nearly as quote unquote

[10:25] financially successful, but I did what I could. And then I decided for us to all go as a family to go visit her. So we visited her. We took her on a trip. There's a little island called Chedu in Korea. So, we spent about a week together there. And it was one of the most, I believe, profound moments for me because I think it was a sign that I was just starting to mature. And I think what had happened is that before I was using pain to kind of drive me, but then in that moment, it turned into something different. It turned into love and empathy. And now I have all the

[10:53] love for her and I still talk to her. So, I think that was a big big transitionary period for me. That's really beautiful. I think we don't give our parents enough grace understanding that they're kind of going through their own, you know, challenges. And in a way, I often think when I got to meet my biological father for the first time, I was 26. I wasn't like in my head, I was like, yeah, you you guys separated and it's probably the best thing that could have happened for me because you

[11:22] had your own demons you had to fight. But um I still I just remember I had so many questions that were left unanswered and in the Russian culture it's also a lot of like sweeping under the rug like no one just puts it on the table and talks about it. So um I think that was the journey that I was referring to that I had to kind of take to answer a lot of those questions by myself and find the answer for myself. Have you had a chance to talk about it or is it more like you made sense of it and now we're

[11:50] continuing you know forward? No, we definitely talked about a lot. There was a lot of crying happening. So when we got to Korea, it was the main point of focus for me to try and bring up this conversation in front of the entire family because I think when I was young, because I had this relationship with my mom as the closest to my mom, I I think processed it quicker than they did. And for them, they never really got a chance to kind of get their frustrations out. And so one time we we basically all met up for dinner and we were with my mom and her mom. So the

[12:18] person that was taking care of her while she was in Korea, we we met at her little home. And it's a very tiny little space. It's very cute. And we were having dinner together. And that's when everything kind of unfolded. And so what happened is that immediately my sister started crying and my mom had this letter that she had written for my sister that it was never actually deployed. So she like never actually sent it out. And so that's when my mom and my sister had a little reconciliation and same idea with my brother and had this kind of experience together where we're all just human. And

[12:45] I think it it again was this moment of peace for me. I don't know how to best describe it, but it was all this anger kind of pent up. And the moment that conversation happens, it's like no, there's no more anger. And so for me, it has changed the way that I view my family. It is forgiven them. It has been so empathetic to their experience. And now I hope to share my story more and more because I know I'm not now I know that I'm not the only one that has gone

[13:07] through that. Oh my god. I mean, if I'm being honest, I think that my social media storytelling career really took off when I started sharing those parts of my life. Like I when I started online, it was, you know, I was sharing very uh superficial stuff like the things that interested me. But I'll never forget when I did go back to Russia for the first time to meet him and I recorded actually a video mostly to show my kids at a later time to really try to bring context to my upbringing. Um I remember when I was sitting at night and editing that video, I was like, I feel like

[13:42] somebody needs to hear it, even if it's one person. And that was a really scary decision. But when I posted it on YouTube, that's when it changed. Everything changed for me, right? So many people are going through the same experiences. So many people are trying to understand if they're like the only ones that are caged in this unknown, you know? So, um, it was very I think that was a big healing moment for me as well, which is interesting that you found your way to kind of the world of content as well and to storytelling. You said it yourself. It's like you started to make sense of your experience by sharing it

[14:16] with the world. So tell me a little bit about that. Like what felt natural for you to go out there? Especially coming from the culture that you're coming where we're not talking about the bad stuff. What propelled you to put yourself online and be like, "This is my story." I got goosebumps when you're talking about your experience because it's exactly how I felt. And it's really hard to describe it with somebody that hasn't gone through it. But there is something therapeutic about that process. I say that personal branding has been the best personal development journey that I've ever been a part of. It's because it forces you to face your demons. It

[14:53] forces you to be more self-aware. It forces you to understand your emotions before you then displace it onto other people. And so for me, when I was going through that circumstance, I always thought I was alone. I mean, for 12 years, not a single soul knew about it. And so when I was in that mode, it was really difficult for me to make sense because I was like, "No one's going to care. I'm the only one that has gone

[15:11] through it. Why go ahead and share it?" The moment I shared it, everything changed because I'm recognizing one, wow, this is unbelievably powerful. And two, I could own that story. I think what happens is if you don't necessarily tell your story, that demon starts to own you and it starts to inflict upon every decision and behavior that you then go ahead and forward with. But for me, when I told it, it felt like ownership. It felt like, no, no, I did go through that, but why am I ashamed about it? It wasn't as if my parents were perfect, but they also never claimed to be. It wasn't as if I was

[15:41] perfect, but I never claimed to be. But taking ownership around that has helped me understand that that maybe I'm not so wrong. Maybe I'm not so messed up. And there's a chance for me to actually redeem myself in different ways. And so, storytelling became way more than just a content tool. It became a way to connect. And then naturally, my audience grew. It wasn't as if I came into that thinking like I have to storytell to build an audience. It was like, well, when I would talk about fashion and fitness when I was in in those days, it was like nobody really cared. But when I

[16:09] talked about my story, people cared. And that gave me a sign that maybe content is just a way for us to connect as human beings. And that's kind of how I I treat it today. I call my online career the longest therapy of my life. I agree with you. It is absolutely self-development. And I always talk to people like even if you don't want to build a career out of it, there it's such a beautiful mirror to yourself. Nothing tells you more about your shadows and your light, like the way it reflects on other people and how, you know, the world responds. Um, so it taught me so much about myself, but I'm

[16:42] curious, you know, once you start sharing your story, you start picking up on all these negative or not even negative, but limiting beliefs that you have. And something that really spoke to me uh with you is your um view on money because you are the first millionaire in your family, which made me actually

[16:59] realize that I am too. Heck yeah. [laughter] High five. Come on. Um, but it's interesting because we also both share this approach of scarcity when it comes to money. So, talk to me about that. Yeah, it's a real thing. I mean, when I first started earning money, I didn't touch it. Like, I didn't invest it. I didn't I didn't know what to do with it cuz I thought the next day it would go away. Like, I genuinely had no idea what to do with it. And when I would go and speak to my dad about it, he had no idea cuz he's looking at this number and he's

[17:26] like, I haven't seen more than a few hundred dollars in our bank account growing up. like that was maximum. And for him to see $8,000, he's like, I don't even know what to do with it, right? And so for me, I knew at that time that I shouldn't spend it or splurge on it. So for the first year and a half, it just sat there. And obviously I would allocate money for taxes, but that was it. Like I didn't spend it at all on anything. And I think it's because, and I don't know if this is your circumstance, too, but for me, it was like money was evil because money

[17:52] was this thing where it caused so much tension. Oh my god. Yes. That's literally all I've seen growing up. Yeah, exactly. And so for me, I thought, well, I now that I have it, it's like I this thing broke apart my family. Like I'm not going to go and talk about it. I'm not going to use it. And so I felt really it was

[18:08] weird like I felt guilty about using it. And so it it was a while for me to understand this. And then after about a year and a half, two years, I'm like, "Oh, wait. It's not going anywhere. It's like up to me to use it as a tool." And so anything that I spent my money on for the first two years was taking care of about like $400,000 of debt for the family. immediately was then going ahead and taking care of my siblings as they were moving to a different location. It was going ahead and then paying for

[18:31] eventually a car and a home for my dad. And like what what I started to recognize in that moment was that money was just a tool and it was up to me to understand how to use it properly. And now I'm like starting to feel a bit more confident in it. But I don't think that those demons go away in three years. I think it's something that I still have to process and figure out how to use money properly in a way that makes me feel good and also makes me feel aligned. I mean, when you have this number, $13 million, right, in your head, what does that even represent to

[18:56] you? We I just had It's so funny that you asked me that. I just had a conversation about this with my co-founder cuz we just hit I think it was like 16 and a half or 17 million in like 17 months. And so, we're looking at that number like like what the heck has this become? And what we are so proud of is now the team that we get to build around it. And we're starting to see that it changes their lives, too. and him and I had this like really like deep moment where we're like we're actually doing something that is not just serving others but it's

[19:22] serving our respective team. So when I look at that number it's like funny because all of our money goes back into the business. Like for me it's like I just want to keep investing. I want to build the best team that we can possibly build. And so now it represents I've done something right. So it's like if I can keep building this team the way that I can imagine it like the sky's is the limit. Like we can keep serving more people. And I've always said that money follows impact. And so my business co-founder he's so good at what he does and he's very much in the numbers. He's

[19:47] very much the the business operations guy and I learn so much from every single day. He thinks in like numbers of money because he has to and I think of it as like numbers of lives impacted. And what's interesting is now he's like leaning more my way and he's like yes if we can do this like we can actually go ahead and build a very profitable

[20:03] business for ourselves too. I don't understand how you miss the phase of like here I made a little bit of money let's uh get a private jet to Vegas or let's rent a Lamborghini. like how did you miss that phase? I think it's because my dad growing up, although he wasn't the most successful financially, he was a good role model in different ways. And so for him, anytime that he had money, he wasn't spending it on himself. He would go ahead and buy me a new phone. And so I knew even at the age of 15 that he couldn't afford to do that. But seeing that, I think ingrained

[20:36] something in my brain where money is meant to serve. And I think for him, he was serving his kids. And even then, I knew that it wasn't a financially responsible decision. And so, when I had the money, I think I learned it from my dad that although there was a lot of spending habits that weren't necessarily good, the one thing that I did learn from him was that it should be in service of other people. And if it's not, if it's for yourself, that's when things can start to go ary. And so, for me, I was like, all right, when I have the money, it's not for me, it's for the

[21:01] people I love. And I think it served me well because I don't get distracted with it. And I think that's something that has allowed me to keep working. Like, when we have a financial success, it's like, cool. like I that's not why I did it. So let's go ahead and serve more people. Um so it served me well.

[21:13] Hopefully it keeps on doing it that way. But there was no moment one moment of indulgence. Like tell me about one thing that you spent money where you were like this is purely for me. It serves nobody but me. No. Like I'll be fully honest like I the the only thing that I spent money on that was a splurge was like the $400,000 check that went to my dad. Like there was nothing about I covered my student loans and that was like a big moment for me but no literally not a single splurge. The only thing recently that was something that I felt like I came

[21:39] into was the new apartment. Like being able to now live in a location where I have other creatives around me was really important. And to be able to travel like that I think was important, but um not maybe I will have one and maybe I have a better story for you next time. Next time I'm waiting for that Lamborghini. [laughter] Um what do you

[21:55] feel like people see this drive in you? Yeah. What do you find people don't like understand about the source of it? I don't think it's that hard. So, I think when people look at how fast I go and how how much I do, they look at that output and they're like, "How the heck is he managing that?" Of course, he must be burnt out. There's no way he can manage that in a healthy way. And people commentate on the way that I live like

[22:15] every single day. They do. What do they say that it's like not sustainable? Yeah, of course. They're saying it's not sustainable. They're saying that I go ahead and promote an unhealthy lifestyle. That there's no way that you should be doing that in your 20s. You should be living it up. That you should hang out with people. Like, you should have more of a social life. there's all these people that are going to

[22:31] commentate on your life, right? And for me, it was knowing that that was going to be the case and then knowing that it's not going to necessarily impact me. But for me, it's like, and you're probably the same way. I know about your mom and how much she means to you. But when you see the person that you love the most work as hard as they

[22:46] do, it makes your work feel easy, right? Cuz you know what real pressure is. For me, I didn't even travel growing up. That wasn't even a thing and registered in my brain. And so today to kind of have that, it's like I don't see this as pressure. I see this as an opportunity and there's something that you've talked about in your videos and I've studied about about you a lot as well, but this idea of surrendering and I and I surrender to this work. I think I surrender to my faith and it's this idea that I'm going to keep doing it as hard as I possibly can and let the chips fall

[23:13] where they may, right? And it's this kind of idea that I'm going to give it my very very best. At the end of the day, if it goes well, then great. If it doesn't, I'm going to be happy with the fact that I've tried. And that's where I think people don't recognize where this comes from. Do you feel like this discipline is something that is a result of a childhood or is it a discipline

[23:29] that you had to build? For sure build. And it was because I think I had my back on the wall and there was no plan B. And so I know this sounds silly now when I think back on it, but even when I was in middle school, right? So here in the States when you're in seventh grade, you can start playing sports. And so for me, I was really into American football and then ultimately turned into soccer

[23:48] because I got hurt in American football. But even that I was always at that point because I saw the suffering I was like either I got to make it through sports or I got to make it through academics. I got to try. And so I always tell my team there's not many things that I think I'm naturally good at but I show up very well. Like if you give me anything and I'll show up for a very long period of

[24:06] time and I will stay consistent with it. And I think that was built around like 8th grade, 9th grade, 10th grade, 11th grade and constantly learning about you know what are my limits? Cuz I think when people hear discipline they think about 150% effort all the time. That's not true though, right? But if that means 20% in the gym one day, then I'm okay doing that. And so I've learned how to sustain myself. And I think that's where people will look at my life and like, oh, it's unsustainable. But you got to recognize I've been training that for like the last 12 years of my life,

[24:35] but they don't also understand that it's es and flows. And the way that you are, you to your point, know your limits. You know when to kind of push and when to back off. Obviously online all you see is the push push push because that's the portfolio that you put out there. But um but yeah that's you see but to me it's like if it was was it modeled to you like did you see anybody outside of obviously your father or hard it he worked anybody in your world at that like important age that impacted the way you approach

[25:05] discipline? I listen to a lot of motivational speeches. So, I know this feels odd again, but when I was in middle school and high school, I was always moved by film, but also moved by speakers. So, there's speakers like Eric Thomas, Inky Johnson that I would listen to at a young age. And interestingly enough, I would only listen to that. I would never listen to music playing sport. I would only listen to those speeches. And I think it gave me hope in a time that I didn't have hope because I would hear about what it took for them. And so I I now I credit a lot of my rewiring to

[25:36] things that I listened to and paid attention to. And I think that's something that a lot of people don't realize. Like if you are consuming content and it is negative, it'll start driving you in a certain way. But if you can go in and surround yourself with positive information and positive material, it also turns you into someone that feels hopeful. And that's kind of I think what has driven me because there wasn't like there was no one locally to me that I was looking at aside from my

[25:59] dad. You know what? I think you pinpointed something really interesting because the inbetweens like when we drive or to your point like if you train those are I feel like the moments where your frontal lobe kind of focused on the act of doing something but your subconscious is taking in what is playing to you. Does that make sense? So it's like instead of putting something kind of stupid in the background or music that's not uplifting,

[26:26] it seeps into your brain. I love that. No, I think that's probably exactly what it was. And I think more people would benefit from it. Like I'm not someone that talks about training tips or anything like that, but something that I really recommend for people is pay attention to what you consume because nowadays it's like this echo chamber where if you're in negative spirals, it'll only be fed that way. And the algorithms have gotten so good, it also in a bad way. So if you are paying attention to all the negativity and you're feeling really down, I always tell people take a second off of social

[26:56] media and pay attention to what's actually going on objectively and see if you can change that. So I will go into like those three lines and I'll change it and say not interested and I will force myself to only see things that I think reinvigorate me versus bring me down. I actually wrote um on my substack a couple of weeks ago this thing about I was fine until I open my phone because there's nothing to your point that you it's like you're you're calling it to show up for you. You know, you feel like uncertain about something at work, there's going to be a video that will

[27:22] exactly reiterate how you don't know what you're doing. You know, there's something in parenting, a parenting challenge. Like, of course, I'm getting a video telling me if I make the right choice, they're traumatized for life. [laughter] So, I'm just like, you know what? I woke up this morning, I feel great. My phone will not be a participant today. So, I'm interested about the I think about it all the time because this is where I'm at with my ambition, right? Like I always think about what brought me to this point served me really well and that was that survival instinct, but I'm at this point in my life where this

[27:54] instinct is not what's going to take me to this next level. And I'm curious if you have encountered it already or is maybe it's something that will come for you. Uh because again with our stories and our backgrounds, we're getting that kind of wind with all the history and family and everything that we've seen. But it is also a little bit of a trauma response, right? And it brings you to a certain point until you're like, "Okay, this is broken. This is not working

[28:21] anymore." Have you felt any of that yet? Yeah, it was in 2024 when I met my mom. So, for me to even get through biomed, it was unbelievably challenging. And I still say that getting my degrees there at the same time was even harder than what I'm doing today by like 10 times. So, wait, give me a little bit of context. So, you got two degrees at the same time. So I wasn't necessarily good student, but because I wanted to make it for my family, I chose the hardest thing that I could possibly do, which was biomedical engineering, and I was getting my bachelor's and masters at the

[28:49] same time. And so that meant that basically I was not going home. I was studying all year round. And I was also doing internships on top. So I was doing Glacos Smith Klein, top pharmaceutical companies, just cuz I wanted to get my foot in the door. And I was doing everything I possibly could. And I was hustling for 5 years, like barely any sleep, learning about things that I had

[29:05] no idea what the heck I was doing for. And basically in that moment of time, I started to, I think, get close to my first burnout because you're right, that trauma response is only going to take you so far. And it really did change when I saw my mom after graduation. Like it it went from this angst and hatred and being this kind of driver of I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to do it on my own to turning into a lot of love and empathy. And I genuinely feel like something that drives me today is the love and empathy that I have for my

[29:31] family and the people that I get to serve. And it has changed everything for me. Like I wake up and and my team will tell you like in good spirit all the time no matter how hard it is because I think I just have so much good like at this point I want to do good. Like I think I have empathy. I don't know how long it's going to take me to maybe change the the anchor and the why. But in 2024 definitely shifted and I think this has sustained me a lot more in a healthy way than the the anger that I

[29:54] had before. But did it change your why? It changed my approach but it didn't change the why. So I think at the fundamental core of all of this was looking at my dad and making sure that he never ever had to be concerned with how he lived but also knowing that that was not just his circumstance. So I can explain in this way. So my dad did construction right and he was working really hard for it and so we would go to Home Depot and Lowe's all the time. So that's where he got his construction material. Because he didn't speak English anytime that he had to return

[30:24] any items, anytime he had to buy things, not a single person took them seriously. And I would see that my dad that was already going through angst and frustration is now being looked down upon. Although he doesn't speak it, he knows for a fact that he's being looked down upon. And me at the age of 15, I'm going with him seeing this and trying to communicate on his behalf. And so my why has always been my dad. I think what has transcended is realizing it's not just my dad out there that feels like an underdog. And for me now it's like how can I give a voice to the voiceless and

[30:51] how can I serve them as much as I possibly can. So I think it's changed my approach. I don't think it's just my dad anymore, but the why, the core of it, I think is still intact. But a lot of it, like I'm being annoying because I want to get somewhere here, but it's the why is, yeah, comes from your family and now it's kind of the larger impact. But my question for you, have you ever stopped and redefined like what is that for me? Like what am I

[31:14] giving myself? You know what I mean? Like very much anchored in you, not with other people. So my faith is is the bottom line to everything that I do, right? I think when I surrender, it's surrendering to Christ. And for me, it has been a vessel in which I can then serve to other people. So, I think it's the core of who I've always been. I think my audience recognizes it like everything that I do is is an approach for it. But for some odd reason for me, when I've done things for myself, things have fallen apart. And so, I don't treat it like, oh, I'm in this selfless

[31:45] experience. That's the way that I can go ahead and do good in the world and kind of do it kind of like a I think a surface level way. It's like cuz I know the other side of it. Like anytime that I've done anything for myself, I've lost the temptations, I've lost fights, I've lost ways of how I work. But when I go ahead and I have something to do that's bigger than me and I think it's my calling, I feel connected to that entire purpose. So that's why I think I'm driven so much. And so yeah, like I read scripture almost every single day and

[32:10] that is the thing that I think has been anchored to my wife for the for the entirety of the last seven years. I always call myself like a new found as in like when I grew up I grew up in the church but after a while when my parents got divorced we went away from church and I come back to it and once I've come back to it I think it's kind of when did you come back to I love I love when people talk to me about faith I love when the work is rooted in it um when did you and how did you come

[32:35] back to your faith so for me it was about the senior year of my college so I knew that I was going to be graduating and so at that point it was like I need to get very serious serious about who I was becoming. And I think what happens naturally is I was pursuing business for about a 2 years before I graduated. I think business is this interesting thing where you can lose yourself in it, right? Cuz there's always more to be done. And I was in the spot where I was like, I should probably take a second because all the things that I was afraid of growing up, I think

[33:04] money has now done that to me in a negative way. Like I keep pursuing money like the next thing when I told myself that wasn't the purpose. And so my faith became this this forenter of everything that I'd done. And so once I got back to scripture, I think you can't really have a relationship with something unless you learn about it. And so as I was learning more about my faith, I started to recognize ah this is giving me contentment in the best way. Um as in like contentment is very different from complacency. Contentment means that you can try your very best and you surrender

[33:30] to your work and if it works out great. If it doesn't then that's also fine. But you've tried you surrender to the process. I think that's what lights me up. And it was about that senior year where I start to take that much more seriously. And it's compounded I think with how difficult life has been in recent years. This I think more of an unbreakable person I think in different ways like even in leadership right even the way that I talk with other people I feel much more confident and I think

[33:51] that confidence comes from the faith. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Are your brother and sister also kind of went back to it. Sure. And so that's something that uh we talk about a lot of times and I think that's something they've really helped me with. I'm very curious because when I was looking at just your story in general, something that stood out to me, obviously your industry is content creation, storytelling, but it's your craft and the way you've really like built it brick by brick and I know that that's something that you're trying to get people to learn how to do for themselves. Do you think you've is that

[34:23] do you feel like people are can find their craft or it's something that you were just kind of trying different things? you decided on this one and then you built it slowly. Like how does it work? I I saw you on Maggie Sellers's podcast talk about this and I think you're totally right. A lot of the times when I predicted that someone would be successful, it wasn't actually the case because you can't predict what is inside of them, right? And so when I think about content creation, initially it was all about how can I teach them to make a good piece of content. And then what

[34:52] became of it is like some people would win with that and they would go very far but they might not be able to sustain it because they're mentally weak, right? they've never craft. And so my entire content and when we do free events and we do experiences like that, it's all about can I introduce people to the world of what personal branding has done for me. And I I think a best way to put this is when I used to call out to creators and I used to be like if you're a creator struggling with X, Y, and Z, you should come join Creative College. It never worked. And I

[35:25] realized over time it's because most people don't wake up and think that they're creators, right? Most people don't wake up and think about the the fear of not being seen. They think about the fear of being seen. Yeah. And so I had to change my angle. And I said, actually, if you want to become better communicators, if you want to become more confident, if you want to be more attractive, if you want to be somebody that is more sure of your purpose and you want to actually be more

[35:44] reflective, content could be the thing. And so now like it's it's this mission to help people recognize like we're on a similar mission. It's it's not just about the vanity metrics, the personal development that comes from it. And I think that's where storytelling has really hit home for people. They're like, "Yes, like I want to own my story. I want to own my voice." And as a result of that, I think people are leaning towards this craft. So I'm using different angles to guide them towards it. And I think they're finding it on

[36:06] their own. In your early year, in the early days that you were doing it, what were you practicing when you knew like that's something I still need to build? Like the videos were not good enough. It was not good enough for a while. So I learned a lot. [laughter] Oh my gosh. Probably like two years. Uh, I was posting every day, but I mean back then I was doing like fashion, fitness, but not in a good way. Like I was not doing anything that was worth attention, [laughter] I think. Uh, but what what I had to learn is one, how to show up even when I didn't feel like it. So, I think

[36:36] with content, is like anything, it's easy to do it when you're feeling motivated. It's really hard to do it when you don't want to show up. Like filming and putting yourself out there and hearing commentary is hard on your brain. And so, I had to learn systems to be like, if I have 10 minutes one day, I got to make use of those 10 minutes and make it count. I think that helped me for the first two years at least just learning how to show up. And so after that it became this idea of like how do I make better content? And so I

[36:58] recognized like how do I film better? How do I script better? How do I ensure that I'm getting my content formatted correctly? How's my messaging angles? And so that's when I started to take it a little bit more seriously. And I think that probably my story if anything you give people hope because I like I show my old content all the time and I don't

[37:15] archive them. Like I show it to people. I'm like dude this is how I started. I love I love looking at my old videos. I think it's so it also shows you like the progress you've made cuz I think when you are someone with you know our kind of want and need to constantly improve. You forget where you were even a year ago. So it's an important practice for me to constantly go back and just watch it and just be like a you cutie so [laughter] proud of you. Is that how you feel when you Cuz it took me a while to get there cuz I think when I first

[37:46] watched my old content, I felt really cringe. Like I was like, "Oh, shoot." Like I know how I felt at that moment. Did you ever feel cringe when you're looking at your old content? I used to when I was younger, but I feel like now I recognize even when I watch other people's content, it can be cringey, but I recognize and that's what I admire the most, the the want and need

[38:05] and the muscle of like the courage. That's what it is. The courage. When I see courage, I'm like, "Wow, this impactful for me." Even if the content is bad, by the way, because I know how much it takes for somebody to go out there, turn on a video, and like tell show who they are. I think that is very

[38:24] it's an art. I agree. I think the art is in trying. Like I always tell my students this, it's like the skill you're gonna learn, but the art is trying. Like trying to put yourself out there when it's imperfect. And I think that's the only reason why I've stayed as long as I have because you know you know this like the algorithms shift like things change but how you show up when things don't go well is the true sign of somebody that's going to win. And so for us we see that right now we see people trying we're like ah like I love that for you because

[38:52] that's the thing that's actually going to carry you forward. By the way I think this year is in general the year of like trying hard. I think trying hard is a thing again and I love seeing it. I love you agree. Yeah. I think there's I think what's also happening is that it's becoming possible and I think it's for voices like yours that make it possible for other people and I think that the age of gatekeeping is gone. I think a lot of people that have now grown into success the way that you have, but you also beautifully share your experience and story so people can learn from you. And

[39:20] I don't necessarily think that was common before, right? Like people can go into your YouTube and see all of the vulnerable stuff that you're sharing. And I looked at your content, I was like studying and I was like, "Wow." Like the ability for you to bring people into your world through the ups and downs makes you feel really human, but it also

[39:34] unlocks the possibility that it works. And so now I think people are trying because they know it's possible. What is something that you are bad at right now that you are deliberately trying to get better? I think I'm bad at business. Really? I think so. I And I and I tell the team this all the time. I think they're like, "Don't listen to me. I'm

[39:51] bad." Like [laughter] like I think I have good intuition and I think we can trust it at times, but I think I'm still such a newbie in this space and I have to earn my stripes and I feel confident that I can learn it, but not yet. And so I think a lot of what I've done has been just through trial and error and just a willingness to stick through it longer than most. Now I obviously have put in the people in place where it's helped me significantly because they now take over a lot of those conversations, but I'm always studying. So now I'm trying to

[40:18] become better at it and I hope that that is going to be something that that pays dividends not just again for me but like the work that we're doing because if we get better at the business side of things. I'll give you I'll give you an honest example and I don't think we're supposed to be sharing this but I'll share it with you. So we we did a New York event, right? And it was out of my pure pure lack of patience that it came out to be because I wanted to do an inerson event. And the team's like, "It makes no sense for us from a business

[40:42] perspective because we don't have brand deals lined up. You want this happening next month. We have all these other things going on." I was like, I was like, "No, no, no. I will front it. Like, just just make it happen." And they're like, "I'm pretty sure we can't do this right now." And I kept pushing for it over and over and over again. I think we lost like $49,000. And it was like literally because of me. And I look back on it, I'm like, "Yeah, that probably wasn't the smartest business

[41:03] decision." And now I'm learning from it. I think in a weird way, it's like a double-edged sword because I think it's helped us like it's allowed us to be very audacious in how we work because they now have confidence. I'm going to follow through with it. But I also got to learn my own stripes, too. But you see, this is the interesting

[41:18] part with this side of the business. Urgency is truly a skill. So to your point, we've had very similar experiences, by the way, to what you just shared where it's like this needs to happen next week. It's hot right now. Let's make it happen. Let's do it in person. And then obviously everybody's scrambling trying to figure things out and it's not coming out the way we wanted to. But it's like I've always battle with this idea of like where is urgency and where is like the proper way to do it? Like it's a very interesting balance. So can you teach me how do you how do you

[41:49] know how do you know when something is urgent versus something? I don't know. [laughter] I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out. Every time this happens I'm like I'm just the talent. Okay. I just want to [laughter] I just want to get things done, you know, but it's uh it's true. It's it's a very it's a hard balance to keep in

[42:05] business, especially in this business. So, um you know, you recently shared that you um your nervous system was shot. Yeah. Yeah. So, this was interesting because you're doing all these things. People are keep commenting that you're doing all these things. Um and then you've recently had a lot of changes. You moved to Miami. uh you did the uh storytelling challenge which is its own I'm sure huge project master class and you shared that you burnt out. First of all, how did your ego let you share that you burnt out after all these people are like what you're doing is not sustainable. You're coming out being like you guys it's not

[42:42] sustainable. So tell me about that first. So basically what happened is that when I was it was it was on the backs of quite a large sprint. So we had come from a virtual master class which was about 5 days of live streaming. I was about like 30 hours. Then the next day which was a Saturday I flew out to Can Lion and spoke there and so I was there for 4 days. Then we went the next day to London and in London we hosted our event which was our biggest one yet. And so we did that and then immediately afterwards did like an entire two weeks of podcast

[43:11] and masterminds and all that stuff. Then I came back home and all the stuff at Storytelling Content Challenge. Anyways, so what I said on that story post wasn't that I burnt out, but it was that I was feeling disconnected from the drive. And that was the part that scared me. And that's the thing that I want to make light of because I don't I'm not afraid and I tell my girlfriend this all the time like when I feel like I'm going to get close to burnout, I'll tell you like I'm I'm very like explicitly open about that because I don't want to ever hinder and I think you you do a very good job

[43:36] of this which is it's one thing as very driven entrepreneurs to work extremely hard but you can't take that out on people that didn't sign up for it. And so for me, my girlfriend is like everything, but she didn't sign up for the amount of work that I'm doing, right? And so I still have to be in my best circumstances because I got to give a space for her to be herself and and do those things. I communicate to her whenever I'm feeling like I have a lot of stress on my plate. And so what I did on that story post was tell people that I think what's exhausting me more than

[44:04] anything is I'm losing sake of the purpose. Like I feel disconnected. Like I feel now like I'm just in kind of like I just wake up and I do it if I don't feel connected to it, right? Like in autopilot. And so when I made that story and I and I and I did it, it was like this connection to me where I'm like I got to stay accountable to my true purpose. And I think a part of that is being vulnerable like and you do a good job of this. I have to be vulnerable when I don't feel connected because then it shows other people that it's like

[44:28] it's going to be part of the process. And so immediately after that, like literally the next day we we booked a call with the rest of the team and I was like, "All right, let's figure out what we can do here because I got to show up in my very best and I'm going to do as much as I possibly can, but I also got to be like there for you guys like present physically. I got to show up emotionally with my energy. And so we started doing a better job delegating my workload from that point forward. But yeah, it was this idea of like I want to

[44:50] be vulnerable. I want to take them into that world so that they can mirror that experience too. How long did it take you to learn your own capacity cuz I'm sure it also changed with seasons. I want to ask you this because I think my capacity has obviously increased but that threshold isn't like linear. It's dynamic. It's like some parts of the year I feel really good and I can handle a lot. But I think it's when so for example my grandma passed away about five six months ago and that was something that really kind of changed my personal life and so that's where I started to feel a lot of the angst and I

[45:20] think that's kind of led to me and feeling that moment of like feeling really disconnected cuz I knew where my heart was and it was with my family trying to figure this thing out but that was happening in the background everything in the front end was all this other stuff that's going on and so for me it's like learning it's like a daily check-in like I don't think I can do it anymore like oh I feel good like it's a daily thing of like do I actually feel connected to that work and can I do my very best with it and connection doesn't mean I feel great like feel energized

[45:46] but it sometimes just means it sucks but I'm going to be willing to st it to it but in the same breath if I don't feel aligned like I do have to step away for a time to kind of recharge and reignite um so that I can shove at my full capacity you see I had a big realization of that once I started seeing it affecting my family life and the kids uh my kids are our kids Gary's always complaining that I say my kids I'm like why a single mother. [laughter]

[46:10] I watched that video between you two. So, our kids um I feel like they keep us very grounded. Um especially as a mother because I'm still in like I'm the nurture, you know, in the family. Um but what was your kind of turning point realizing that I can't go so hard into it? Like was there a breaking point that

[46:31] made you wake up? For me, it's my girlfriend because she's the one that immediately feels it and she's not afraid to communicate it to me. That's gold. Yeah, 100%. For her to communicate that with you, cuz I feel like usually, especially for girls that are uh women that are dating entrepreneurs, they're like, "This is part of the job that I sign up for." And they're just kind of, you know,

[46:50] harboring this resentment. Yeah. So, this is where I've challenged myself the most. And I love that it's going this way. I had to wake up that I was making all these excuses. And I think as a man, you got to recognize when you're making excuses, right? So, what happened is that I also made the same exact excuses and I said, "It's part of my work. like of course I'm going to be stressed out. I have 18 hours of work that I've been doing for the last like seven months. Like of course I'm going to feel stressed. But at a certain point it's like if I can

[47:17] pour that much into my work without complaining once. I don't complain. Why the heck for the two hours that I have my girlfriend am I complaining there? And it changed everything because I'm like I'm owning up to the things that I want to own up to and I'm not owning up to the areas that I am actually weak in. And so my girlfriend when she corrects me and I want her to correct me. It's like no, no, you're totally right. Like I should go ahead and do those chores because I told you that I was going to do that. I also should go and and prioritize your work and I should ask

[47:44] you about your work. It's not just about me just because I'm in a busy season. And so what happened that was the biggest unlock is like can I pour as much energy into my business the way that I pour into my relationship? Can I do it in that way? Like why am I shortcutting it? And the more I do this, the more I recognize it was such a facade. Like anytime that I'm now present with my girlfriend, I'm like, I can't believe I used to make an excuse before saying that, oh, it's just cuz I was too busy. Like, who cares that I'm busy? Like, my work is great and I think

[48:10] it's awesome and I love it, but is it worth sacrificing the most intimate relationship that I have? Absolutely not. And so, even through the busiest seasons, and Alex, who's back there, knows about this because he's he basically lives with us at this point, but he knows this like anytime that we have these busy, I'm still with my

[48:26] girlfriend. I still eat dinner with her. I still make sure that I take care of her. I still make sure that we go out on dates. cuz you have to because if I don't then I know that that part of my life is actually becoming weak and that's going to only eventually bleed into other parts of my life too. I find that there's a lot of men, ambitious men that are having a hard time finding this like how to snap themselves out of it. Um, honestly women as well, how do you snap yourself out of it? Yes, there's like the bigger picture, but is there like a a sentence

[48:51] or a something that you visualize where you're like, "Okay, I wrap up this and I come to be present here." I see her beautiful face and everything changes. I love you. It's not difficult. [laughter] Like in all honesty, like when when I'm so stressed out and I get very stressed out and I look at her and I'm like, it's probably not that big of a deal. And she breaks that in me because there's been many moments that she's actually brought

[49:14] up to me when I didn't feel comfortable. And she's like, "No, actually, I think you were not keeping up to your word." Like, you talk about being a disciplined man and you can be disciplined. You work out every single day. you go ahead and you work and do it for your team, but like how come you can't show up in other ways that you've committed to? And I'm

[49:30] like, dang, like you're totally right. And so when I look at her, I think everything shifts and it's just her face and uh with her cheekbones and I'm like, all right, cool. We're good. It's them cheekbones, you guys. Uh you know, when I first started online, it was a very interesting time because it

[49:43] was about what was it 2017. Um and like I mentioned earlier, I really started with the interest that I had. It was the nutrition, it was fashion, it was things like that. and I was trying to play the game the way it was working then. It was very aesthetic, very kind of magazine-like. Um, and that really felt it felt empty to me and I didn't want to continuously go back to it. So, I was like, how can I show up in a way that energizes me? So, I would say that I was one of the earlier kind of adapter to this authenticity trend, right? So, I was

[50:17] sharing a lot like I was sharing my story of going back uh to Russia and meeting my family. Yeah, I opened the door to a lot of, you know, things in my life and it felt very raw and I managed to build an amazing community out of it. But at some point I was like vulnerability and authenticity became a commodity and I'm looking at the landscape right

[50:37] now and I'm just like it's changing. Like for me even at this point in my life I want to step back a little bit. I no longer have new boundaries that I don't want to cross and those change all the time. But I'm curious for you where what was your process with vulnerability and like the rawness of your story. Yeah, it's such a good question and I think it's so important that as the author of your story, you protect what you share. And so for me, I talk about the stories of my dad and my girlfriend, my brother, my sister, but nobody really knows their names or what they do. And

[51:08] every time I tell a story, it is always my own spiritual or emotional maturation that has come from it. It is never theirs cuz it's not my story to tell. And so even when people come through my programs and they learn storytelling, it's like the fundamental rule. It's like these stories are meant for you and how you've evolved because at a certain point you're going to start to blur the lines and it's a place that I was once in. And so when I first began my vulnerability was me saying that I got a C in class. Like that was my vulnerability. I thought it was like the

[51:34] worst thing as an Asian. Are you kidding me? I can't share that publicly online. And so it went from that and then over time as I felt more and more confident then I started to share more about my personal life but again focused on me. And so the first story that I ever told that went more I think outside of just academics, it was around my friends and I was saying that I felt really tempted or I felt really in X Y and Z circumstances. I didn't feel like I had good friends around me and that was when I felt really disconnected from them and basically I made a video around that and

[51:59] that's the thing that I started to recognize. All right, so I can tell these stories that people are going to resonate but I don't have to bring their names in. Like no one ever really knew who it was about. Even those people had no idea it was about them. M and so now I still keep that at the forefront of my mind and that's where I feel a little bit more comfortable sharing things because I know for a fact that if I can just bring a little bit about my own experiences into it and then talk about my own transformation that's the thing that people will

[52:20] connect to. So my vulnerability is that boundary. It's like I will never talk about my girlfriend's story for her. I will never talk about my dad's story for her uh for him because it's not my story to tell. And I think that has also allowed me to protect the loved relationships that I have. So like my dad when he sees my content and my team asked about this when we had dinner together. They're like, "Do you ever feel a certain way when you see the story that Jun's telling about you?" And he's like, "No, not one bit." Like actually I'm so proud that he's been able to own his side of it and his

[52:47] transformation because he never shares about the things that I've personally done or gone through. Um and I think that's the the big line for me. Have you had an experience when you crossed your own boundary that taught you a lesson? So more recently, um I had talked about my girlfriend. So my girlfriend's like the most private person ever. Like she doesn't want to be talked about. She I've noticed it's always like you kind of don't really see her face me in it and she's like, "You can do anything you

[53:13] want, but do not get me in the content." And so there was a a post where I like put her in it. And usually I do a very good job asking her before, but this time around we just post it. And when it posted and she saw it, I was like, "Ah, you're totally right. That's a boundary that you had and you didn't want to be part of it, so I shouldn't have put you into it." So then we immediately archived it. But that was the most recent example of it. Aside from that, most of the times I'm I'm decently okay cuz I will mostly focus on my point of

[53:39] view instead of theirs. But that was a recent fault. So you didn't really have a journey of like making mistakes in order to learn your boundaries, which is interesting because in a world of like visibility, I don't know. I know when I walked into this world and I'm kind of on a stage, I've made a lot of mistakes in order to understand what are my boundaries and what I won't cross. But you kind of like

[54:03] just knew. No, I don't think I just knew. By the way, you're like legendary in our space because and I know I'm going to give you credit for this on my podcast. You're gassing me up this whole episode. I [laughter] really appreciate this. You are a legend because we we talk about this all the time and we look at the the landscape of social media and it's important for us to macroscopically look at it and you're right that you're actually one of the I I wouldn't even say one of many. You're like one of very few people that have been able to transition across the different types of

[54:28] content and do it so openly. So I think we come from different places where you actually have been in this career a lot longer than I have and so you were in there where it was a lot more flushed out and it was very aesthetic and you had to transition into this space and that's what makes you so legendary because you could do that and you've been able to have longevity. I had the luxury of not having to step into the super aesthetic world like I came in in the rise of short form content. when Tik Tok blew up and became the most downloaded app in 2020 is when I

[54:54] started. And so at that time there was a lot less polished looks. And so that's why I think for me I learned it a lot earlier not because I knew it better but because you were literally coming in from a completely different era. And I think it makes what you've done significantly more impressive because when I started I could look at like 10 different people and be like ah I see their storytelling but I see the

[55:13] boundaries that they're crafting. Where do you see the industry heading? Do you think it's going to continue being this very raw open storytelling or do you see people are starting to kind of move away from that? It's a good question. I think that this industry is going to head more towards ownership and equity. And I think that more of these people are going to try and start businesses. But to win with business, you have to build an audience and people recognize it. And I think to build an audience today, you have to do the thing that isn't the commodity. I think right now regurgitated information is all around us because of AI. And so

[55:44] what has happened is that people are sharing the same expert level advice over and over again. And I think what I am so impressed by you is you always say that it's okay to say, "I don't know." Like it's that's the most human part of you. And that's why you have an audience that like literally loves you, right?

[55:56] Like you have this legacy around you. And I think people look to you. I think people look to other creatives that are actually building that rapport and connection. And yes, I think boundaries need to be made, but I don't think it's the boundaries that strip away the humanity. I think it's boundaries that protect you and your kids, but it's not the boundaries that say, "I'm going to stop talking about my life." And so I think more people are going to keep talking about their lives and I think the storytelling is going to be the thing that actually separates people from the people that are just literally

[56:19] like puppets and sharing the same information again and the people that feel really human. You know, it's it's interesting for me because you both of us are seeing people coming in wanting to learn how to get good at something, how to get good at telling their story, how to own their story. I'm curious from your from you seeing like all the DMs and the people you work with, what is the like number one fear that you've recognized across all these groups? It it's what you and I have been talking about this entire time, the fear of being seen. Like no matter what, the fear of the unknown will always be there

[56:52] and I think it hides. So a lot of these experts will talk about in different ways. So let's say that we work with like seauite people. They're going to be like no no I want to protect my image because of my business and because of my industry because of my but at the bottom core of all of it is a fear of being seen and I think it's because for decades right many of these people were

[57:10] told to play small to stay in your lane. So how the heck do you uncover that in one week two weeks you can't and so for me I've recognized no matter what they say it always boils down to this fear of visibility. I think we all have it in us even me too. I think that's where imposter syndrome comes from, right? We have this fear of looking stupid or fear of doing it wrong. And I think it's people like you that make it possible for people to fail like and say like I don't have it all figured out. That's the thing that makes us really human. But yeah, that's the

[57:38] fundamental thing that I see. Is that what you see within within your program too? Yes. The fear of being seen, but also honestly the fear of becoming more self-aware because it requires a lot of self-awareness. It's like you have to be really honest about the things that you're good at, the things that you're not good at, you

[57:57] know, and just be okay with it. Uh it's easier to be like, "Oh, that's not something that I'm interested in because I want to protect myself." It is it's a form of protection. So, I I do think that there's a lot of that as well. So, we had a recent conversation with somebody and they had come through the program and they had said, "I've never experienced a single struggle in my life. I don't know what I should be sharing about." Looked at that and I was like, "You've never experienced a single struggle?" a big statement to make, right? I'm like, we're human. What do you mean you've never experienced

[58:24] anything? She's like, no, I've never had a single bad day. I've never had a single bad moment. And I'm like, the amount of facades that you have to bring into your life. To think that you've never as a human being experienced some suffering is crazy, right? But that's where I think people have kind of grown calloused. And I think it's up to us to try and break that down and say like, "No, no, no. The thing that you think you're going to win by, like the polished look, is not the thing. It's you becoming human." I was actually going to ask you this on my podcast, but

[58:49] I'm going to do it anyways here. How do you get people to become more self-aware? You know what I've realized is like I have a framework. The way I come up with just like my own insights is asking myself a lot of questions. And I think that that's people don't do it. Especially today in a world where we have all this information coming at us, a lot of us are just kind of taking it as barbatim and are not asking question after question to understand what lies

[59:15] underneath. Yes. You know what triggers us? What why do we agree with a statement? And that's where I feel like I've kind of mastered my own creative process because I learned to be that deeply curious. So I always want to teach people like how to learn that deep curiosity about themselves. You'll be surprised a lot of things coming up when you keep on like but why why why why and then it just takes you to a whole other place. You know, it's awesome how aligned we are. So, literally for the storytelling content challenge, it the thing was entirely the three W's. And there's this idea, you

[59:52] can name a single event in your life, and I hope that people listening to this do this. Any event in your life, ask yourself three W's. And I bet the end result, wait, that was the that was the ch that was in the challenge. So, it was part of the challenge is within the storytelling wheel. So, yeah, exactly. It was this idea of depth. And people, for example, would say, I just took my kids to school this morning, and that would be their event. And I'm like, all right, cool. Why? And it's like, well, of course my kids has to go to school and they have to be on time. So

[1:00:15] that's the first answer. I'm like, okay, give me another why. And so I'll ask them like, so why? Like, well, I guess I could send them off to with their dad, but I actually really enjoy that time with that. And I'm like, all right, wonderful. And then they'll ask themselves the third why. And then there's a deeper reasoning, and it's like maybe for for a long period of time, they prioritize work, and this is their first way of actually showing up

[1:00:34] and being present with their kids. And it's like that thing is so raw and so human. This stuff isn't. And that third why is the thing that everyone has to get to. And so when you're talking about that, I'm like, "Yeah, that's exactly what we think about." But you know, we're talking about content creation, but this is truly is like knowing yourself, right? Like it so

[1:00:50] applies into every aspect of your life. Especially, I think it's so important to learn the skill in today's time and age where obviously there's AI to tell you how you feel and to make sense of every conversation and um other experts online to tell you how to feel something. And I feel like in a way I've been reprogramming myself to go back to that practice in other aspects of my life, not just in my work. Uh for example, I broke up with my aura ringing because I'm like, why is this external thing telling me how I feel? So it's these small little things. I'm like, I'm

[1:01:21] taking this authority back, you know? And uh that's what I love about content creation is like you really learn to take it the power back. Wow. Because you know yourself this well, you know. Yeah. It's it's it's so it's so good. And I I saw you talk about this too where it's it's this idea that that viral hacks, right? It's it's this thing that this industry had led with for so long and you became a voice to people saying, you know, it's actually significantly deeper than that. Like

[1:01:49] those hacks that only take you so far. There's a self-awareness that's required, but it's also the most fulfilling part of the process, right? It's like for me, it's it's the unknowing. It's this bridge between where we are now and the bridge uh where it connects us to where we want to be. But that unknowing, that gap is where you find yourself. And I always tell my audience, I'm like, "No, this is the thing." Like the thing that you feel is like ill, like I don't want to be a part of it is the thing. Like you have to stick in that for a little bit longer

[1:02:16] because that's where you'll find your magic. So that's why you think people quit. Like is it because they feel there's not talent or because they're not comfortable sitting in that in between? It It's definitely the latter. It's always down to their own human ex instincts. It's like either they're too afraid of being seen, they're too afraid of being self-aware or there's something about that process that's waking them up to that. So, meaning like it's easy to hide it. Like when you first start something, it's so easy to mask it and be like, "Yeah, like I'm good. I feel really pumped up. Like I want to tell my

[1:02:46] story." You give it three months and life gets in the way. Your kids get sick or you get sick or your partner is sick or you have a bad day at work, everything goes away and you're stuck by yourself. It's like what decision are you going to make? And so it's definitely this idea of becoming that we have to instill into our students and those are the people that end up winning like in the long run, right? The people that make the most amount of money, the most amount of impact are the ones that

[1:03:07] really know themselves the best. What belief do you see that you wish people would let go of when it comes to like finding their voice and their craft? That they have to wait to be somebody they already are. And I think a lot of the times they always wait till they have the moment, the success, the accolade, or they wait to, let's say, travel. They're like, I have this cool part about my life now that I want to share. And it's like, no, no, you already are someone in this moment. And that's the thing that you have to start

[1:03:36] sharing. So, I don't know if you see this, but we see it in our program. Let's say someone has a big moment in their life. They're like, I just launched a book, or let's say, I just went traveling, or I'm about to go travel. They're like, "Now I want to start content because I have something interesting to share about my life." And I'm like, "No, no, you got it completely wrong because you're not

[1:03:53] going to travel for your entire life. You're not going to have this book your entire life." You cannot make that the focal point. It's about when you have everything stripped away. Are you then interesting? And you talk about this and we share the same belief. It's not about the event, it's how you tell the story. And it's about how you understand it and

[1:04:08] how aware you are of it. And I think again that's where hopefully our audiences recognize that truth and start winning with it. I think that's why co was such a huge uh shift for me because for a lot of my peers they became very lost in this world because they weren't traveling anymore. There wasn't all these like parties to shoot and give access to. So they kind of didn't really know what to show where

[1:04:31] for me I woke up this morning. I can't even explain to you the feeling. I jumped out of bed. I locked myself in the room and I'm like let's go. It's like I God spoke through me. I'm like, I have so much to say. Finally, I don't have to be anywhere. I don't have to

[1:04:47] dress up and I can just like go at it. And you know what? That was just the beginning of I was doing a lot of Instagram lives, which is the catalyst to the podcast. Like it all started really building from there, which was very interesting. So 100% I actually find that I'm always trying to make my life less big so I can find those like moments of connection in the

[1:05:10] every single day. It's hard that I hope that everyone clips and listens to it a hundred times over. Like the fact that you're optionally choosing your life to be smaller so that you could figure out the core of who you are is is everything, right? Because there's so many people every single day that I meet that make the excuse that my life is not big enough and you're saying the opposite. No, no, no. Connect. Is there something that you do on a daily practice that actually helps you connect back to who you are, your purpose, your character, your per like that's something that I think other people can

[1:05:40] go ahead and start applying as well. You know what? For me, it's just like alone time. I really have to find moments of just conversing with myself and shut off the world. It's definitely harder to do when you know you have a full life and children and all these beautiful gifts around, but it's something that I I'm very vocal about that I need and I try to get as much as

[1:06:03] possible. What about you? So, I think naturally I'm more of an introvert and so I have a lot of alone time and I think it's needed. So, I I don't even think that that's the first thing that comes to mind, but it's probably because I'm alone majority of the time and I feel good in that space. But I I think something that helps me is I always list out in my phone, right, things that I'm experiencing. And I always challenge myself to read my life better. So it's something that my girlfriend and I talk about all the time. She'll give me like random things, like random experiences. And she's like,

[1:06:34] "What do you think the meaning is behind this? Like what can we cultivate as meaning?" Sometimes there is nothing and it's just bliss. And that's okay. But when there is meaning, like learning how to detect it in real time, like for example, our conversation here, it could just be a podcast, right? and I could go home and be like, uh, it was just a cool moment with Valyria or I could find meaning in it. I'm like, I think we built a real kinship. I think there's something around our experiences that made me feel less alone. And I think there's something in that. And then that

[1:06:59] gives my life more brightness and light. And so for me, I think it's like the recurring practice of like what just happened? Can I take meaning in it? And then the next step a lot of times like can I make content on it? Because if I can make content on that meaning, then it makes me really own the entire story. Not all of my stories actually make it into content, but it's a practice that I do. I'm curious if you have any other rituals or practices that you do every single day that going to keep you

[1:07:20] focused and on track. I train every day. I know the training is important to you too in terms of giving your physical being like the the the workouts and needs and that's what I do. Like I I think working out has been kind of the release valve. Like I don't work out for any other reason than that.

[1:07:35] Like the mental clarity and the energy. It has nothing to do with the physique. It has nothing. It's just like literally can I show up and prove to myself I can keep this commitment. And I think for me like how you do one thing is for me like how you do everything and I don't do much like I think if someone looked at my life it's very small actually that's not true. I heard that you have these like four things that you try to accomplish every day. Tell me about the four things. [laughter] I'm a

[1:07:57] Virgo. I like lists. Oh I love that. Yes. It's a mental win, a physical win, a spiritual win, and an accountability win. Golly gracious. You guys have really done your research. So those four things have gone back with me ever since I was probably 17 years old. And so those are my daily habits. So, if I go ahead and read scripture for 15 minutes, if I can learn something new, if I can go ahead and move my body, and if I could do some sort of journaling to connect me to my purpose, then I feel like I'm doing something in the right

[1:08:21] direction. I love it because, you know, for me, the whole purpose is for this episode if for somebody who is trying to understand what they're good at, what lights them up, like how do they find it? Because life can get so there's just so much that you kind of get lost in the noise. So, to give this like very clear, here's a little something that you can do as a little practice. Yes, those four things to me is a beautiful practice to quiet your mind to focus on what's going on inside to listen to, you know, the the the conversation that you're having and to make sense out of

[1:08:51] it. It's that simple. You know, it doesn't have to be you chasing mentors and trying to get them for a coffee. So, I think that that that's like the beautiful thing about you that you are able to bring such simplicity to the bigger question in life of like what am I here for? Uh, and I think that's

[1:09:10] very, very, very special. That means the world to me. Thank you so much for saying that. Thank you. Okay, are you ready for a rapid fire? I'm ready. This is going to be quick in and Oh, by the way, wait. I wanted to add something. Okay. [laughter] I wanted to add something because if

[1:09:24] not, I'm going to wake up at 3:00 a.m. and think about it. All right. So, you were talking about your process of like trying to make a meaning out of everything. And you know what? This year, my resolution is to stop doing that. Interesting. Yeah. because I really overindexed on the [laughter] You got way too far. I went so far that I'm like I'm exhausting myself. Like this can't be also cuz my words for this year is like joy, lightness, play. Um so I'm curious for you if you've ever gotten to a point where you're like everything needs to mean something [laughter] where you're just like you know what I'm doing too

[1:09:58] much right now. I I definitely think that there's extremes to it and no doubt about it. like especially when I'm exhausted and I try to make meaning out of it. My girlfriend's like just stop talking and I'm like it's a good point. So I think that there are extends to it but I think it also does give me joy when I know that there's significance but also when it is just bliss. So like me and my girlfriend we were sitting on the balcony and like in the midst of this apartment flood and that's like the only place that we could actually sit and stand and like have a talk. We're like

[1:10:23] sitting there. I'm just seeing you guys like everything is ripped and dripping and you guys are standing. We're just standing out there. We're like, "Let's just be. Like, we don't have to say anything. Let's just be and let's be blessed." And I definitely think that there's moments in time that you have to be intentional about that as well. But that's hilarious that that is

[1:10:39] your New Year's resolution. I know sometimes Gary's like, "Sometimes things are just are everything is a sign from the universe." And I'm like, "You know what? You're probably right. Let's just go with that. That serves me today." Okay, rapid fire. Ready? Post daily or post when it's good? Post daily. Talent or discipline? Discipline,

[1:10:59] reach or resonance? Resonance. Money or freedom? Freedom. What is freedom? Is money freedom? I think freedom is opportunity. So freedom is making the decision to say yes or no. And I'm so blessed today that have the freedom to choose whether I do something or I don't. And I think that that's something that I didn't have

[1:11:16] before. But it's not just financial. It's like mental. Like for me, I was always in this scarcity mindset where I had to do the next thing. But for me, it's become mental and spiritual where I'm like, "No, I'm good." And so I think it is the freedom to say yes, I'm going to do it or I'm not going to. Amen. The mental win or the physical

[1:11:32] win. I think you have to both. I That's a good question, but I don't think one goes without the other. I agree. Long form or short form? For Wow, that's a good question. [laughter] Think about it. What is the meaning? My podcast producers back here. She's going to hate me if I say short form. I I would have to say short form just because I think that's where I first began. Build in public or build in

[1:11:56] private? In public. This is an interesting conversation because I actually see a shift happening especially with um entrepreneurs, founders, where they're like building in public is doing more harm than good for me. Why why do you think they're talking like that now? The majority of them, as nice as I possibly can say that, are just bad at it. I think that it's hard to build in public. And I think most people are like, I'm just going to share every loss during that period of time and every emotion behind it. and that's me building in public. And obviously that's

[1:12:24] going to hurt your credibility. Obviously it's going to make it even harder for you. So if you do it right and if you bring people into that journey the way that you've beautifully done your content, you cannot tell me that building something in public, getting your audience to care about is going to hurt your launch. Every single launch that I've done, every multi-million dollar launch that I've done has always been on the back of building in public. And I think people that do it right are the ones that will sustain themselves. And it happens though. You've been in this space long enough to realize that when someone is

[1:12:49] bad at something, the first thing is like, "Oh, it stopped working." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't work for me either. I also think that there is you still have the power. So you don't have to open up every single challenge that is there. Sometimes there challenges you have to figure out your stand on before opening it up to millions of people. I think that's where they kind of fall, you know, where it doesn't work where they're like, I need to document everything. And then all of a sudden everyone else's voices kind of overcrowd

[1:13:18] your own. That's where you get lost. So, agreed. Yeah. Mic drop. That was really good, though. I I hope everyone listens to that. Thank you. A big check or a small loyal audience. A big check or a small loyal audience. I think I want I want you said you want I want a big check and a big loyal

[1:13:33] audience. Yeah. I think the loyal audience would get you that big check. So, audience. Okay. I need you to be to connect yourself before you answer this. Connect myself. Okay. To connect yourself and just not get uh swayed by your recent experience in Miami. Miami or New York? Oh, [laughter] remember I was just to give context, you had a you had a really rough intro to Miami with the flooding and everything, but I was trying to share with you that

[1:14:02] this is the initiation phase. Yeah, I will Miami go with Miami, but because I've been my New Year's resolution has actually been something different to keep present with where my feet are. And I think I do so bad with that. I think I think way too long term. So, because I'm here and I'm with you right now, I'm enjoying this

[1:14:19] experience. I'm gonna say Miami. Yes. The creator or the operator? I actually think it's both. And I hate that this is a copout answer, but I feel like every creator is now becoming operators. I feel like everyone is learning what you're doing, which is the the actual thing. It's like you can't just cont you can't just do content. You have to build a business, too. I know it's kind of exhausting because back in the old days, all you had to do was just kind of show up and twirl and, you know, [laughter] and post and hope that, you

[1:14:44] know, some opportunities come your way. Now you're like, "Okay, you're in it. You're building a media company." Thank you. You too. You too. Good for us. We're doing great. Before you go, there's one question I'm asking everyone. What is one thing you think people aren't saying out loud right now that you wish they would? That the world needs more empathy. I think that's it. I think if we were nicer, and I know that feels like such a cliche thing to do, but I think content stems from generosity. I think it's a willingness to be kind to one another that makes your content stand out and makes it feel seen by other people. And

[1:15:16] I think everyone is craving it. But when you go ahead and you just look at the world and the way that everything kind of shapes out, it makes it feel like we're against each other. But you and I have way more in common and to the listeners than we have apart. And I think it's that empathy for one another that will make everything a little bit easier for each other. what blocks you

[1:15:33] feel the empathy today. I think what blocks the empathy is unfortunately the thing that we promote which is the content and I think it's the echo chamber. So echo chambers could be bad and good, right? It's like when you have constant negativity, it's going to force you to think negatively and that's where the empathy goes away. And when you think positively, when you realize there's other people to be served like I'm sure our for you pages look quite similar. It's like there is good things on there and we can serve

[1:15:57] other people. We learn from each other. And I just wish that that would be more seen by others. Agreed. Well, June, thank you so much for being here. I would love for you to share where my audience community can find you, learn more about the program and everything else you guys are doing. So, we have Creator Unplugged coming in and with more episodes. It's a project that we had started about now like six, seven months ago. And so, you can find us at creator unplugged on Instagram and on

[1:16:22] It's a podcast and available everywhere. Yes, exactly. On Apple, Spotify, and on YouTube. And then you can find me on Instagram at June_U. Amazing, June. Thank you so much. You honestly, you're exactly who you are online and I really appreciate that. A that's so nice. That's [laughter] the biggest compliment for anyone who is online, right? Yeah. It's like the biggest compliment ever. Can I give you a hug? Thank you so

[1:16:44] much. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for everything. If you're still here, you are my person. Congratulations. So, I'm [music] going to ask you something. Okay, are you ready? Subscribe to the channel. It's free. [music] It takes a second and it's honestly the single most useful thing you can do for the show because every [music] subscribe tells the algorithm to bring more women like you, which means [music] we get to keep making this. So, hit the button and tell the algorithm what to do. Thank you. How long are you willing to be bad at something before

[1:17:19] you decide it's just not for you? Because I think so many of us quit right before we've given ourselves a real chance to get

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