# Lessons Learned Growing Keynotopia from Zero to 50,000 Customers – Amir Khella – MicroConf 2016

Channel: Rob Walling
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcl0NrvoW-g
Duration: 41 min
Language: English
Words: 7062
Transcript page: https://viewrankai.com/tools/youtube-transcript/vcl0NrvoW-g

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[0:00] [Music] I actually started with a blockage in by the end of 2010 I was running a design agency I was working with a bunch of companies in Silicon Valley we were doing well but I was kind of itching to see if there's something else that I can do working as you know creating consultancy or creating a freelance agency is kind of draining because you're always while you're doing one project you're always looking for another project and so on and it just seemed like I wanted to experiment with something else so I took time off and we had been using at that point we've been using keynote Opia sorry keynote knockin

[0:55] Autopia so keynote and PowerPoint to create prototypes for our customers instead of doing Photoshop or very complicated design tools we just used keynote because we found that it does the job really well and really fast so when I took the time off I'm like okay maybe I should just write about how I've been using keynote Opia keynote to that point to create those prototypes and the iPad had like just just came out I think it was like April May of 2010 so I bought one I played with it and I started creating prototypes and so on and I found that I was like I can do

[1:34] something on the iPad that I can tap through and because I can create screens and links from each screen to another it felt like a really functional prototype it was just fake screens linked into each other so I'm like okay this looks cool I'm gonna just write a simple blog post and see if if anyone would actually read that blog post so I wrote actually a lengthy blog post I spent about a couple of days writing it I made a video and in that blog post just a quick shout the timer isn't working so I'm probably gonna use my own my own time on the watch so I created the blog post I made

[2:17] like a little video on YouTube and I put like a little kit that I created just two slides or three slides that has a bunch of components that I created in keynote and I'm I was like if you want to download and just click this button and download this kit and in my mind I've been always wanting okay is this gonna be useful to anyone so what happened was kind of unexpected I liked within a couple of weeks we had I had twenty five thousand views on the blog post over five hundred people downloaded the kit or like the zip file that I had the kit and and over 100

[3:00] people were mentioning the blog post and linking back to it but more than that I was getting comments on the blog posts and email people saying can you do this for the iPhone as well can you make this kit for me on the Android so I felt like okay maybe someday I'll just you know I'll start creating now I have you know some time off I'll put together a kit and a website and in my mind of like I'm gonna take a couple of weeks to do this there is enough time but then at some point I'm like okay I've always wanted to do something quickly before that

[3:34] agency I had spent like nine months and over ten thousand dollars of my own savings to create a product that that I never launched so at this point I was like okay maybe I should just put for myself a really small period of time like a short deadline and see what I can what I can create so put together website in three hours finish that kit update people were asking for and linked it with a junky software horrible name for a software but it really works well it's like a shopping cart software and put it online and I rewire it kind of relinked the download button from the blog post so

[4:15] instead of people downloading the blog the kit with a blog post it will link them to keynote OPL which is the website i launched that evening and in my head is also like should I really you know is anyone gonna find is this useful and I have a design background and the website looked really ugly I remember like that night I was like I was hungry after like walking for three hours I go to the kitchen making some oatmeal and in my house like maybe I should take down the website until it looks good enough and then put it back up and by the time I had gone back to

[4:49] the laptop I had an email from PayPal saying that I had the first customer so I was happy to like okay let's keep it there obviously it's useful it's not pretty I'm gonna improve it and the kid was very Elementary this is like the first snapshot of what we create on the website in 2010-2011 so two months later we had 20,000 visitors to the website over 1,500 people paid for the product and about 750 link backs to the website so people who started talking about it and it started taking off and in my head I was like okay maybe I'll do this as an experiment I never had like a business

[5:36] background I wanted to do something that would teach me how to launch and grow an online business and this seemed like a good kind of framework for me to learn so I took the time I closed the design agency I'm like I'm gonna focus on this there is some kind of revenue coming through gonna take this to kind of bootstrap the product and within a few months a bunch of people started to talk about the product and I I was getting surprised like why are these people talking about this kid I'm like I'm doing something that I want to keep small and experiment with so a bunch of

[6:14] people talked about it even this guy talked about it and three years later we had over 50,000 customers over 1,500 link backs and mentions on the web excluding Twitter on Twitter that alone probably had over a hundred thousand mentions we grew from one product to four different products plus two courses and the quality of the product improved a lot we kept putting putting up more up and launching more products so how many people here are on the first year of the product or the business cool okay so this is what we did on the first year that really worked for us like I said I have no idea what I was doing

[7:04] but I didn't want to wait until I knew what I was doing I wanted to take this as my like my my practice to learn so I was asking a lot of questions I was like as soon as someone would sign up the product I would jump on the email and ask them questions how did he find about us what would you like to have in the product what can we do to improve it do you think the price is right to give you perspective the price when I launched was four dollars for the kit and I thought like no one would buy it right now the price is $150 and I'll tell you

[7:38] through the process how we got the the price right I was also like flooding forums with questions like I went to business forums internet marketing forums anything that I knew I had like a specific question about I would go and ask so like at some point we had like competition sign up for our product and like we had a mailing list sort of like getting what we were announcing to the mailing list and using it for up for their product and I will go and ask okay what do I do if my competition is hiding in my mailing list how do i do sem how do i do SEO so I asked a lot of

[8:16] questions because I wanted to learn as I go and I think it that worked well probably better than you know what I try to do with other products before which is try to learn everything and then feel confident before launching the product the other thing that I learned is people are waiting to learn about your product especially people who care about this domain so I found out what you know design community is kind of you know well knit and well tied so I'm like I would go and ask people you know you did prototyping with this tool they would have a blog post about prototyping with

[8:54] a specific tool and I would read through the blog post I wouldn't spam them I wouldn't post the comments like hey check my website or hey check out my my business but I would read their blog post because they're relevant to my business and I would ask them a question at the end of the blog post sometimes I wouldn't even post a question about my or post a comment about my product but I would genuinely be curious about their tool what they found interesting and you know why did they vote for that tool versus another once the conversation started that would ask about what I'm what I'm doing it can leave them at link

[9:30] so surprisingly a lot of the blog posts specially in the design community where didn't have any comments so these people despite the fact that posting they aren't they're important like there were VPS of design agencies and important designers but it's not like they didn't have much discussion so they were happy I was starting a discussion on their blogs on the first year what you want is you want to try a lot of things because not everything that works for a specific business would work the same for another so for example for for SEM for search engine marketing we did a lot of content we did videos we we also posted ads on

[10:10] social media we posted ads on Google we tried a ton of things but we tried only the things that we can measure if we're getting any kind of revenue from so in the beginning like the first year you want to diverge all your like traffic channels you want to verge all the methods that you want to grow the business and as you'll see like on the second year we started to kind of dive converge into only 20% a word for us and everything that you try you need to measure so probably that first year I learned an important lesson which is the difference between advertising for

[10:47] traffic and advertising for branding which is do I get a direct response from my ad or am I just putting a brand in the head of my potential customers and then when they hear about from multiple sources they come to me I think advertising for branding is useful on the second and third year but on the first year you want to have more like direct response advertising where can I measure the impact of every dollar I'm putting in to add or can I measure the traffic from every guest post or every announcement that I'm making and we did a lot of tests I think we were running close to

[11:27] five tests for a week and I signed up to Optimizely great tool hire recommended because you don't need to be technical can just it's a WYSIWYG tool for modifying your whatever landing page or product page and we were running three four five tests per week and to this day we're still running like it was hard to me to get the data and realized that even though I had a design background I didn't really knew what somehow someone would click on a button if it were green or orange and we're running tests on outlines of the page tests on the colors of the buttons tests on what the button says learn more or

[12:10] browse here or click here all these things we just did a lot of variations off and like I said I just wanted to learn business and launching product and growing products so I treated everything as an experiment and the funny thing is like if you look at like a scientific experiment you have hypotheses and you run the experiment and you have results and these results prove or disprove the hypothesis so there is absolutely no failure in running experiment because you're always getting feedback and results so we tried many things that fail but to me I was just getting different is also that I was expecting and I would modify the next experiment

[12:52] to match the results we're getting you probably know this really well which is start a mailing list from day one the reason I used a junky one of the reasons is that you can hook it up with MailChimp and every customer who signs up will go directly to your mailing list and I would start following up with them I found that we probably getting 10 times it's not 20 times the conversion on the mailing list then we're getting on any other channel and a lot of people think that to have a mailing list just to sell sell to people I think a mailing list is really useful

[13:36] in establishing rapport and Trust giving a lot of value to people and then when the time is right you tell them about your product that works differently for different products specially if your product is a kind of a UI kit that you want to download immediately or a course that you want to prep people psychologically to accept and then like announce the course to them and this another thing I'm really bad at selling I used to feel like shy just telling people please buy my product it's it's useful and I knew it was useful because I was getting feedback from from people who used it but I didn't want to sell I

[14:17] felt like it's I don't know it didn't resonate with me but what I was really good at is teaching people so I put up lots of free videos here's how you use keynote to do this it is how you prototype this app and I started like learning how to do timely and relevant videos so for example Facebook at some point announced they had a tool kit called origami which allowed them to prototype their paper and use app in like three hours or so so I created a video that shows how you can use keynote to prototype the same app in 10 minutes and I posted it like

[14:56] the same day they announced there that video and their kit and it became because it was relevant and timely people started to refer to it and talk about it so if your product can be used to kind of in a timely way with a hype news or something that's not just coming out on the market and people talk about just piggyback on that news and try to make your product relevant so pricing we started with $4 and I thought that people would call me that day and asked me for the money back or they would show up on my doorstep the following morning and they'll ask for it

[15:33] pricing is interesting because what I learned through time is you have to price your products relevant to the value you're providing people so initially I thought this product would be for entrepreneurs who don't know how to use expensive design tools to basically prototype their products it turned out a lot of design agencies and freelance designers were using it and it was saving them a lot of time and I started like increasing the price when I realized that because for entrepreneurs you're still bootstrapping you can put in the time but for freelancers if I save you an hour on a project you that an hour of your time is 100 hundred fifty dollars

[16:13] back that you get so I can charge you a fraction of that time and if I give you a guarantee that you'll save that time you'll be happy to give you that give me that money so through experimentation by asking people the average time saved on each project was about 10 hours so I was charging people one-tenth of that which i think is a fair value to ask to ask people to pay so if you're struggling with prices ask yourself what's the value you're providing people is it making helping them make more money is it helping them save time or money if they're saving time how much that time

[16:49] is worth and charge a fair fraction of that and build relations build relationships with your customers we built relationships with bloggers we talk to people we went to conferences and we networked and when I say we eats me I was running the whole thing before for the first year so build those relationships because through the year we can do you can do a lot of business development you can do a lot of cross marketing we also ran a couple of deals on appSumo and couple of other websites and deals are very helpful in the beginning to spread the word about your product because these guys have like

[17:30] mailing lists so almost you know million subscriber just be careful and not discounting your entire product so much that there is no further value for you to provide people who sign up for it through the deal and not to piss off people already paid full price for it so I can say a lot about running deals but I mean do the time restriction if you want to learn about deals and stuff come talk to me after after the talk and learn something about everything so the first year in your business you want to learn a little bit about marketing business development design a little bit of coding and the

[18:07] reason for that is it's gonna help you hire the right people because it's very easy for someone to BS you when you don't know exactly what you want and knowing how to do it will help you a little bit knowing what exactly want from them it's gonna also help you communicate to the people you hire your requirements in language they understand so I did a lot of internet marketing like the first year SEM and SEO and I really understood the difference between writing good content that's useful and relevant and doing click baits and doing click networks and trying to fool search engines and a lot of the people that I

[18:48] tried to hire on the second year to help with SEO and SEM just wanted to spread random links on the web and they weren't really interested in building valuable content and the first year is where you can afford doing a lot of mistakes so it's a good experimental background experimental ground you're flying under the radar not many people are noticing what you're doing and mistakes are not that expensive at this at this stage so here - so you're the one you kind of tried everything you made lots of mistakes you learn a lot of things year - is when I started focusing more on the 20% of the things that gave us 80% of

[19:28] the revenue and customers so I noticed that a lot of the traffic we were getting was due to putting good content and putting good tutorials and videos that made other people in the industry talk about us and send us more links and more customers so we started doing a lot of these we put up we didn't just do any like quick blog posts we did put like a course that would take a week from us to create and put it up online for free and have people sign up for it join the mailing list and I would send them the course I know would follow up with them

[20:01] about how the course helped them and if the product would help them improve your product and focus on quality as you can afford to hire at this point you can hopefully afford to hire people to help you with the product so for me this is when I started focusing more on the perfection of the product the first year was like I can experiment I can put things out quickly people were okay with it being you know half-assed quality I wasn't charging them that much but the second year we did a lot of quality improvements and it helped so much even for the 5% only for the 5% of the people who notice it so

[20:40] the product we could have done the product with images like we could have done just UI images cut and paste into keynote but we did painstakingly create every single item as a vector in keynote and it would take weeks just finish one slide but we wanted to like make that quality perfect even the icons were all created in keynote and 95% of the people didn't notice but the five percent who noticed they emailed us back like wow this is amazing I didn't really expect for you to like make it as you know as fine-tuned and as perfect as possible they told people about it I highly

[21:21] recommend whatever your product is to create a companion course for your product and the companion course doesn't have to be about your product but one of the things you can create is to create a course that makes your audience better at their job whether they use your product or not so if your target audiences accountants and you're selling them you know accounting software but they also deal with other stuff and their business look how to get clients out of it clients for accountants if they trust you from that course they will probably buy your product even though the product is like marginally relevant to that course and start

[21:58] sharing your stories with people I think a lot of people in this audience I know already do that but as you're going through your entrepreneurial journey don't be afraid that if you share one of your secrets other competitors will take it and use against you maybe some of them will do but you're learning faster and you're sharing more and people we'll connect with you especially your target audience will connect with you through the stories and the struggles you went through especially if you share the successes and failures they'll feel like they're talking to human being rather than a company or a business and this is something also important for you

[22:36] stutters I never write a newsletter in a way that I wouldn't like to a friend or a colleague who emails me so I never like do fancy newsletters with like fancy designs that looks like you know company newsletter I have a corporate background and it took me a long time to get over the business language I used to be at Microsoft for four years and I noticed that I was not talking like a human being like big difference between what I was saying to customers at Microsoft and what I was saying to my friends on email and when I completely merged both like I got rid of the

[23:14] business language and it would just email people is like hey how's it going you know we just launched this this product and I would love for you to check it out and tell your friends about it what do you think and I would never try to talk down a customer is to be to make them feel like I have more knowledge and more expertise expertise that they do I just wanted them to feel like I'm a friend sharing something cool that I found with them so this is something that really probably made most of the difference in keynote Opia which is give stuff away for free but ask

[23:48] people first to give you something you know small and in advance so typically you would have one of two things online someone who gives you a download button that's like download for free my product for free there are people who say tweet about my product and you don't need to unload it for free and there's a third group that says sign up to the mailing list and download my product I kind of wanted to do a trick that combines almost all these three things so people come to the landing page I never tell them the product is completely free I tell that the product is 50 bucks and

[24:24] they would get it for free if they tweet and with some part I actually gave them the option to pay just fifty bucks instead of tweeting so this gonna emphasizes the value of the product they're about to tweet for and then the second thing after they tweet the button becomes not download but at the shopping cart so first thing this kind of reinforces the value of the product that's actually there's a shopping cart there is a product that they are downloading and buying but it's for free because they tweeted and as soon as they check out they go they download the product but their email goes to the mailing list so I was

[25:00] capturing both they're kind of like word-of-mouth the audience on Twitter and their emails I can follow up with them afterwards this made a lot of difference like at some point we launched a kind of canned mock-up tool kit which is a hand sketch version of all the tool kits we have and I was thinking about selling it for like 50 bucks and at some point like no we're gonna use this to get more customers for the high-end products we have and we set up this page and I think we have over 100,000 tweets just on this page alone and finally a second year you're making less mistakes so mistakes start to

[25:43] become more expensive as you progress from one year to another so it's okay to make mistakes but don't make very expensive ones the third year is when I kind of started focusing on scaling and growth so I think it was like around 2013 when I sat down like what kind of business there when I create I really want to grow this company into multiple people start to create more products and be a manager or do I want it to be a lifestyle business and the letter I'm just you know I had to two people working with me offshore and one locally and I was like I think this is good

[26:28] enough I really like doing this on the side um I have other interests and I'm okay if I don't grow this into a multi-million dollar a year company but I'm happy to just keep it at that size it's it satisfies my lifestyle and I don't want to be in the stress of being a manager so at some point maybe at the beginning of the third year you'll have to make that decision and it will help you kind of hire and strategize and find out what what kind of system you want to create the third year is also when you want to create a system and the system is for your

[27:05] product and for your company so look at your product how are people landing on your website which pages that are going through how do they make purchase decisions did I get the free product first or do they get the paid product and then you upsell them for the the higher-end product create the system for yourself and for the people you you're going to hire because it's going to help you optimize your business and the purchase funnel for your products I see a lot of people who especially I I lived in Silicon Valley for seven years so during the time I was like building and and experimenting with this business a

[27:50] lot of my friends were raising money and hiring like crazy and someone would go from like one to ten people in six months and even people they didn't need but they were just okay this is gonna help us grow the product I wanted to hire very carefully and because I was doing a lot of the creative work on the project and I was like splitting my time between creative and business first person I hired was a designer to just offset all the creative business - and I was just probably spending strategy time with him a few hours a week to tell him exactly what I need and give him

[28:26] feedback and that freed up my time to kind of focus on running the business versus going like being in the business the second person I hired was a product manager and this like an organizing personas like look at all the business asking tough questions help me put like the the system book for my business and then I hired some people I hired as as needed like a system administrator or programmer or marketers copywriters and some for just full-time so so far I only have three people working on it and myself and the tough thing is that you have to learn to let go at some point in third year you

[29:11] recognize that you are running a business that you no longer working for that business that you have to even though you're still doing the creative stuff seek the help of other people and give them the time and space they need to kind of surprise you with with some good results and that was tough for me because I was in the beginning it was almost micromanaging the person and then once I kind of let go of being uptight and being so demanding I would just let them run with it and they were actually surprising me with things that I didn't expect they would come back with you

[29:47] won't also start building stronger relationships with your customers with bloggers with other entrepreneurs do business development so probably the first year also you're experimenting with a lot of relationships which one's gonna work best and you start to get an idea about what group of people are helping you grow your business better and on the third year you want to make these relationships stronger on the other hand you want to also help others who are getting started so go speak at conferences share your stuff online create mailing lists create a guidebook whatever you can do to help others become better at launching their businesses it comes back to you tenfold

[30:32] I found that probably the product you create is your best networking tool more than anything else that you've tried to do I connected with more people in the last five years before after creating this product then in ten years before just trying to go to conferences and exchange cards I still do that but it's good that you go somewhere where people know you through the products that you've created you feel like there is just there is already an established rapport there masterminds group mess and mine groups are very very important like group of people that you trust they would keep you committed to your task that he can

[31:16] bounce ideas with I found that really helped me on the third year I was part of multiple mastermind groups and as part of one in the entrepreneur community part of one in the design community part of one in the internet marketing community and each group was providing completely different perspective about how to grow and optimize the business so find a group of people you trust you'll probably meet a lot of them here in these conferences and you know as them you wanna you know you wanna do a call a week to review our commitments together to I want to ask you about you know things I'm thinking

[31:52] about for my business and happy to help you with things about your business not just they help you but the fact that you're kind of talking your ideas out loud with someone at the beginning of the week I find it helps me think much much clearer and finally find a lot of hidden opportunities in your mailing list or in your existing audience so your goal is not to create one product for your audience your goal is to create a suite of products and upsell each of them to your audience so what I would do right now is after a month of people signing up to the product on downloading

[32:31] it and being on the mailing list I would just send them again a quick personal email saying is there something else that you're you're dealing with in your business that I can help you with or I can create a solution for and we started loved a lot of discussions there's another product that I created last year called status Panda and it's status reporting and employee evaluation tool and this came out of talking with you know a few dozen people on the mailing list and helping with them on the phone and finding out that they're actually having a pain point in dealing with finding the status of each person and

[33:08] the team on each project they're working on and a lot of them were losing money because a delayed task would become a late project and then the clients would be pissed off and they wouldn't pay on time so I would not have created that product if I hadn't asked people what they were dealing with and if I would like okay I'm just creating these design stuff for people but I don't care about their employees you can own a lot of the workflow of your customers if you think about discrete and one product making it successful growing it and complimenting it with different products that kind of help

[33:45] them through the entire pipeline of their business and finally on the last year or the third year you want to avoid mistakes as much as possible in the existing products so for the new products make mistakes but once you have an established product and business people notice every mistake you make and they would call you on it trust me so final thoughts like I said I didn't want to repeat the same mistake I did on the first product that I did not launch which is I wanted to learn everything in advance and then do something there is a ton of information on the internet and it's not the amount of information that

[34:27] you can ingest every day about something but it's the quality of questions that you can ask at every step like what do you want to accomplish at the end of this step find out the questions you want to ask and go ask people go ask on forums a lot of surprisingly a lot of the successful people they want to help other which was like a good surprise for me because I pinged people on Twitter I don't ask them quota I approach people on Facebook LinkedIn I did everything I could to kind of like find the best answer for a question the second one which you know it's kind of like it was

[35:07] like a revelation for me probably too late in the process that I want to share so you can have it probably early in your process which is be of service it's it's it's very hard to fail if your goal is to help others and to find out how to help others just go and ask them how to help them and if they feel you genuinely want to help them they will help you help them but if your goal just to sell and you like block your ears and not listen but talk talk talk about your product they feel that so that came to me a little

[35:41] late in the process but it's better late than never I hope that more people would recognize that because it's it was a big revelation for me and finally don't burn out I added this the slide yesterday after a couple of presenters talk about burning out and I was burning out by the third year because I was doing so much and that's when I slowed down and decided this is going to be a lifestyle business I don't want to grow it and manage it that much and I added this slide because I read a very important article in Scientific American about burnout and what they said is it's not

[36:29] the amount of work that you do on the product that burns you out it's the amount of time that you spend thinking about it when you're not working on it so someone can work on their product 12 hours a day and take 5-6 hours completely decompressing and disconnecting from the product this person will not burn out but if you work on your product eight hours and you're thinking about it for the remaining eight hours you will burn out because your mind is just churning constantly so we're calling a product but fine ways to disconnect completely do something outside go out do yoga meditate exercise be healthy be with others do things with

[37:13] your hands because we do a lot of digital stuff and slock always head and mind and hands but the rest of the body isn't really involved so find a way to disconnect don't look at emails I know it's really hard not to but don't check your phone for customer emails it's a cave you miss some of them life won't stop but you will become very healthy and much more productive the following day and that's it I think we finished early like six minutes early so open it up for your questions

[37:49] thank you I was wondering where I could find that Scientific American article you referenced uh burn out okay so yeah the article you referenced uh I think it was Scientific American mind they have like special issues they call Scientific American mind and the issue is called the signs of burnout thank you other questions perhaps KY Davis might be able to find that and link it up in there yeah so remember micro comfrey Capcom if you want to hear or see the live notes that Chi is making as well as links like that he'll try to find it since you've got a couple of minutes wonder if you could

[38:34] talk a little more about deals and bundles and how to not alienate your existing customers alright so we ran our first deal with with absolu and it did really well for them and for us I think we had over thousand customers in first like four or five hours but I mean so you want to make the deal in a way that gives you kind of future potential for up selling your products with the customers so let's say one thing that I consciously did on the product and that goes with what the pricing option is the product doesn't have a monthly subscriptions actually in one-time purchase initially I wanted to do a

[39:21] monthly subscription of ten fifteen bucks a month maybe for the small kit and maybe 2025 for the logic eight and I spoke with some friends of mine and they were saying you know the longer we can retain a customer is like three to six months and it's very hard to keep them for even ten months so I thought about a trick that really worked for us and really works for our customers which is I'm gonna make it a one-time fee it's almost I'm making them pay for the first year and it's gonna be upfront but they get lifetime updates for the remaining of the life of the product so they were

[40:02] getting excited every time I was launching the updates I would send them email hey download this new kit we just put together for you and even people who paid four dollars in 2011 for the product we're getting the same update someone was getting for $100 later on so they were evangelizing a lot about the product when we ran the deals we made it so that we kind of don't give the lifetime update but people would get the product like a snapshot of the product at this instant of time and because the product is is updated frequently eyes also send an email but to that list I

[40:38] say if you want to get the lifetime updates you can upgrade to the lifetime membership for this additional value so don't I think two lessons for us was where don't discount it too much so that the value doesn't seem you know the value of original asking for doesn't seem like a lot different than what people other people are getting and find some upgrade path from from people who bought the deal to you know having them buy more products in the future [Applause] [Music] you

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