# Viral Creator Reveals How To Quit Your Job and Be A Content Creator WITHOUT Going Broke | Kallaway

Channel: The Calum Johnson Show
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB8ZG_PsAps
Duration: 1 hr 41 min
Language: English
Words: 21657
Transcript page: https://viewrankai.com/tools/youtube-transcript/dB8ZG_PsAps

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[0:00] a lot of the videos that I've heeled off like Messi 30 million views Taylor Swift I've done 30 million views so if you were going to put words to what that formula is what would you say this might rub people the wrong way but the key is I this is my first ever real YouTube video go my guy Kane Callaway in the building 430,000 followers across Tik Tok YouTube Instagram Snapchat close to a billion views across social media you've gone viral over 50 times let's get into the story framework there's five pieces the hook the context the conflict resolution and then last dab so I'll go through each of them the hook

[0:34] everybody hears the hook they're like the hook the hook everyone's talkinging about the hook but the way to get videos to go really viral the last thing you leave somebody with needs to hit them with like you've now quit your job and you're a full-time Creator there's a lot of people out there that it makes sense why they should leave they still struggle I'm curious was there a difficulty in handing in that final like notice of like I'm out no not at all I want it out of there dude from the second I think if you have between 6 and 12 months reasonable expenses that's all

[1:03] you need to go so like people are getting all these views but it's not making them money talk to me about the brand if you really want to know the behind the scenes this is what I think is going on not to like blow anyone's spot but like [ __ ] it I think what happens I think there's a lot of people out there that it would be a dream an absolute dream if they could use their personality and their interests and combine that to make a living build an audience um and just get cool opportunities from those two components not only are you doing it

[1:38] you're being completely transparent with how you're doing it and so when I texted you and I was like this is what the episode's going to be about I'm like the blueprint of product kind of productizing yourself and your interests um in an excruciating level of detail that no one really does almost too much you could too much detail but it's good right because I think and and we even you even said this when we spoke earlier it's like um so many of the people that you look at on who are on like a really high level they can't really speak in any level of detail to

[2:14] someone who's starting out um and it's because they're so far removed from that stage yeah um so here's where I want to begin let's go back 12 months ago all the way back all the way back you have not created a single piece of short form video content what gets you started what makes you start doing that yeah so maybe I'll take it back even a little bit further to like set the context for that yeah so basically I I grew up in an entrepreneurial family always wanted to be an entrepreneur went to school didn't know what I was going to study studied all types of different business

[2:48] basically accounting Finance entrepreneurship you know like you name it I was like I don't know what I want to start but let me just get a smattering of different skill sets yeah so started there I co-founded a company my senior year of college we raised Angel funding we chased that for like a year failed big time but it was like enough to give me the entrepreneurial itch where I knew like this is what I should be doing I had gotten a job offer to go to doy Consulting before we started that company and so I kind of had that in the back pocket first lesson is if you're going in you want to go all

[3:16] in you don't really want to hedge and have a backup plan so I had a backup plan which caused me to make certain decisions along the way in that early start up that we more conservative or like I didn't have a long-term mindset at that time I was like all right we'll give this a year and if doesn't work I'll go to do consulting which is like the opposite mindset you want to have but it is what it is so we we failed at that sold the sold the assets of the company but like the sale wasn't like we didn't benefit huge financially from it yeah went to Del Consulting like first

[3:45] hour in I was like I hate this this is not for me and at that time like a lot of my early 20s was untraining a lot of the like training the conventional educational training that you get so I'm from Ohio so everything I had gotten piped into my brain at that time was like go get a good job be on the job path stay at the job for a long time climb the ladder right like that's what that's what society's designed to pump into you and I hadn't really been exposed to this entrepreneurial content at the time so I'm kind of there's kind of this like you know pull push and pull

[4:17] of like do the conventional path you know from parents and Friends verse me inside like don't do it so I think it's helpful to have that context so I went toight Consulting I gut it out for two years which you I would have loved to have left the second I you know the first second hour but I got it out for two years uh tried to leave and ultimately was between like just leaving it going on my own or uh finding something else inside deoe that was more entrepreneurial so I stumbled upon this like this small kind of group they incubated and through fortuitous bounces I ended up like running that group like

[4:54] basically I had control of a startup that was just me inside deoy with like full backing and budget starting from zero with no like ingrained ideals for what it had to be so it's kind of like a dream scenario if you want to build something inside a company at that time like I didn't really realize the benefits or or not of doing that so kind of for the for the next year or two I worked hard on that to try to grow it I grew it from like zero to six million in Revenue over three years pretty much like by myself with a team of two or

[5:22] three people and you know for all intents and purposes it was like a pretty pretty good swing at like internal entrepreneurship along the way though I was always doing stuff on the side so my whole goal was like as long as I'm at deoe let's try to minimize the amount of time I'm spending at deoe and maximize the amount of time on side projects and like get something working and my my plan was always like once something's working leave and so and am I allow to curse on this or do you you can say whatever you want so I was like yeah so I was like get the [ __ ] out of

[5:49] there so that that was my plan so the the first thing I tried was was music so like we were talking about before I used to Freestyle in college I kind of self- wrote produced mastered every my first album my first couple years at deoe so kind of like was working traveling crazy Consulting hours would come home at the hotel at midnight write a song I did that like every day for 100 days and then put together an album that I released so that's kind of the first like should I be a musician and kind of took that as far as I felt like emotionally I could go I started getting

[6:18] like pretty depressed with the whole music thing which we can go into but so that was my first attempt um I launched a podcast where I was interviewing Founders so went went down that rabbit hole a while tried to build morning Brew for wellness so like imagine everything morning Brew is but I tried to reskin it for just Wellness content worked on that for a while um I even went in the web 3 wave we tried to build a Lifestyle brand on web three rails so we tried a bunch of things but the reason I I go into those things is my plan was always work

[6:46] at Del during the day use the money and free time to fund the side Pursuits get something working and leave that was always the kind of the blueprint we'll say up to that point and it got to a point um after like four or five failed projects where you know variety of execution we'll say but like some of them were good swings but went nowhere I kind of took a step back and I was like okay what's not working is it me not going all in is it bad ideas is a bad execution like what's not working and the answer was that when you think about

[7:20] product and distribution I had no distribution I had no owned distribution so for any of those projects I never got to the point where I wanted to pour money into ad so like paid paid acquisition because I felt like they weren't ready yet but I had no earned distribution no free acquisition channel so there was I wasn't really getting good signal of like are these even working or not before I would churn out so I kind of thought okay let's this was 12 months ago right so I was like let's pause back up let me go build the distribution first which is through content right let me build a huge

[7:51] audience that trusts me that likes the things I like and then I think that will bear fruit and show what product I should actually build which sounds like now in today's everybody's building their own Media company and trying to funnel that traffic to businesses like that sounds obvious now but even a few years ago that wasn't really that obvious of a of a Playbook so that's what I did so 12 months ago I was like all right and we can go through the the framework of like evaluating which media channel to go down because it was really between do I make shorts do I go back

[8:20] into the podcast realm do I make medium form YouTube do I try to like write with a newsletter do I make short form writing Twitter like there's a lot of channels you can go down I picked short form video for a very specific purpose and that's kind of what I did so I was like I had never really used Premiere ever before I had filmed myself on podcast and like had been freestyling so I kind of understood how to like tell a story verbally but I never filmed a short form video and then yeah I was like let's just let's just run at this like what would it look like to actually

[8:50] run at this hard and I was like let's do a video a day during the week and just pump them out and I think it took me like 30 videos before one got to a million views M and then all it took was one video I think like 70,000 views my my first one that got like any bump that's all it took just one signal that I was on to something and then we've been at it since then yeah I love it okay you know what before we get into all of the content stuff uh you introduced kind of like an interesting point which is I think a lot of the

[9:20] times when we think about entrepreneurship um we literally think starting my own company the entrepreneurship thing is actually kind of it's interesting and I think there's not as much discussion of it um and I'm sure it could be like a an applicable route or a suitable route for a group of people I'm curious like let's start with that like how did that even if I'm like inside a big company and I wanted that look because I think to a lot of people that would be like the ideal yeah like it's almost like I have the security of like this big company and like a playground where

[9:59] I can just try stuff without being like homeless yeah um and making no money but I can still kind of scratch that like entrepreneurial itch of like I'm leading something ton of responsibility it's kind of my direction how if there's any lessons from that experience like how could someone even get that look like how did it come about this episode is brought to you by free agency if you want to take your career to the next level free agency is a company that you should check out they manage and represent in the tech industry and they provide you with a dedicated talent agent to help you find engage and win topof Market

[10:35] roles that will maximize your earning potential no more leaving money on the table stop job searching alone and start building your dream career today with free agency anyway back to the show and I can kind of frame like the truth is if you're really entrepreneurial like if you have that dog in you entrepreneurship is just procrastination and the reason why is cuz it's just a hedge right that idea behind entrepreneurship you're really when you go work for a big company if you're entrepreneurial and you want to do that first there's only two things you're really looking for one is a network so like other smart people that happen to

[11:09] be there that you can have like free access to the other is skill development so like can I sharpen the skills I need to go do this on my own the truth with entrepreneurship unless you do it at like a real tech company is you're the skills you're learning really bad habits because like the product people at Dee for example are not real product people so I wasn't really learning learning the it wasn't the truth about how you build product and like iterate and go get customer feedback this was more like corporate product which is not like to be to be fair it's not really real so

[11:38] the skills I was learning weren't that applicable like there was some overlap but not really and from a networking perspective most of the people in a big company don't want to go and do entrepreneurship so you're not you know at Google you can find good people but like at at other companies you're just not going to find the type of people you want as an entrepreneur so those are that's like what you tell yourself is like hey this is a perfect hedge I can get paid 150 Grand a year earn skills and meet people like it's perfect and then I'll go do my own thing what ends

[12:02] up happening is you don't get the skills you want you don't meet the people you want you earn the salary get golden handcuffs and never leave like that's the truth so I would say though if you're at like a Google or a huge tech company that actually Fosters like true entrepreneurship via product then it's a really great way to like dip your feed in I think that's where Google's like 20% rule comes in I don't know if they do it anymore but they used to have a program where four days a week you work on Google stuff and then the fifth day 20% of your week you can kind of like

[12:29] come up with any project I think it still has to be like for Google T tangentially but you can work on whatever you want that's pretty dope because there's so many Google technical Google engineers and product managers that you can collaborate with and then you can spin it out on your own right so that's like a good like hack to try it out before you go but what I had it was really helpful because when I was 24 I know I didn't know anything and so having to own something from my own and grow it from Z to 6 million even if the revenue I earned was like internally

[12:58] routed not necessarily me going to the market but like me selling internally it was still like a really good way to earn skills and grow skills but I quickly tapped out on that after maybe a year so I would I would advise anybody who's like wants to jump but is holding on to this like golden scenario hedge it's not really what you think yeah you know what's actually uh interesting it reminds me of um kamaru Usman uh UFC he was a champion he's not anymore um but he's like a Nigerian fighter and he there was a certain point in his life he went all in on like I'm going to be UFC

[13:33] yeah get into the UFC and he says this thing he's like um I decided that I had plan a and then I had Plan B and plan B was to make plan a work yeah and like that's kind of like the thought process is um there's a certain risk I guess that comes with being an entrepreneur and so you can't like half ass it like you kind of have to be all the way in um on that point like like you you need the figh ORF flight instincts to kick on for certain stuff to happen for like your urgency to pick up you can't figh ORF

[14:07] flight like by definition figh ORF flight doesn't kick on when you're not in a fight so if you're not all in if you have a hedge if you have this other thing you won't be in fight ORF flight mode meaning you won't be Scrappy you won't be urgent you won't like you know work till 3:00 a.m. to finish the thing you need to finish to get the client when you're when you're owning your own business and that's all you're doing so a thing that I you know a big mistake I made was having the Hedge now like there's levels to it like if you're broke and have no

[14:34] money and you go all in and you end up failing like you're going to have to go move in with your parents or like find something to do but if you the level of money you need to actually go all in is much lower than people think I was kidding myself with this before I think a lot of people do as well you really need to be Allin because the other reason is the active ideas you have in terms of like I want to solve x problem I'm I'm going to channel my mindset to it you can you can get those ideas whether you're hedging or not it's the

[15:03] subconscious ideas that you don't get when you're hedging meaning when I was at deoe even if I was spending six hours a day and then I was spending my other six on whatever my side hustle there's six hours in the day where my subconscious can't run free and solve problems for my side hustle because I'm dealing with like corporate nonsense you have to go all in to free up every like brain cell every neuron in your brain to just be like working towards this goal your your your your passion so that's another thing that you don't really realize that until you go all in once and now I'm never going to stop because

[15:37] I'll be able to compound the momentum so much faster now that I have all energy all resources on this one thing yeah you know actually the way that I would I would I agree with what you're saying the way that I would put it as well is a lot of running a business is actually like self-improvement yeah and so it's just like it's difficult to have the level of Improvement you need when you're in a comfort zone like if you're comfortable no one ever got better just being comfortable there's no urgency yeah there's no urgency and so um the beliefs thing is such an interesting thing I think people don't

[16:14] think about it enough but like that's actually if we're talking about where you should start that's kind of where you should start because I'll hear a lot of people that will say things or they'll ask me questions even about like starting a podcast or any of this stuff and you can feel the procrastination in the question yeah uh like they have like they want so much information um before there's any action I'm like you're already kind of thinking about it wrong yeah you need to go and do it yeah and then the questions like the answerers almost become obvious from the data which is like your experience

[16:48] and the reason they're doing that is because they don't have the self-belief that's they're trying to hedge and procrastinate because they don't want to come to the realization that they don't know what they don't know the truth is like success metrics are a lagging indicator the leading indicator is self-belief so like you like if you look at anyone who's listening to this if they look at what I've put together so far like I'm like one I'm less than 1% on the journey Like You could argue like I haven't succeeded yet I've made a lot of traction a lot of strides and like a lot will come but I have such delusional

[17:18] self-belief in myself already that it will come it's just a matter of how long and what what route I take of the tree but it's coming and that if you like hear me you can hear this like calmness in my self-belief it's not maybe it'll work it's like it's going to work like I I know it will you have to have that self-belief before you go otherwise exactly what you said you're going to end up doing the vanity stuff that doesn't actually move the needle forward and you'll get frustrated yeah and the thing is as well actually I think that's such a good point the self-belief but

[17:48] it's also I found for me personally at least it's something that is compounding and building as I get more momentum so like as I learn more things and to be honest um I remember one of my mentors said this to me the day I quit my job he said um your first goal is just to survive like you just don't want to have to go back to your job that he said that's the number one thing that kills like entrepreneurs they have to go back yeah so you just want to stay in the game long enough that you can get good or the thing that you're doing can work

[18:24] and every day that I keep on this part it's like the belief is building and like the identity of like I'm this person is building I think there is a certain Foundation of belief that I was working off already that I thought I was going to make it but now it's like it's building like .1% every day yeah um well that's also like I think I actually think it's really helpful to go work a job you hate for a year because when you I forget who said that someone said something along these lines but like I think it was horos maybe it's like like when a tiger's chasing you you're going

[19:01] to run faster and for me the tiger is I hated my job like I hated it and I'm not going back there I have the Battle Scars From it in my mind and I'm like I will do anything to not go back there you never took a job and you were kind of like spoonfed growing up and then you started your company right away like out of school you never took a job you don't really have like a f there's no there's no Bowser behind you blowing Fireballs you know so it's super helpful to work even for like six months just to like grow that you know hatred almost for the

[19:31] corporate job such a good point it gives you you know what it is it gives you like perspective which is sometimes when you're I think if you're doing anything that's just not traditional that's like a bit different there's moments where the [ __ ] [ __ ] sucks like it's not working and it's frustrating and you're tired and you're not getting the validation of your regular paycheck to make it all seem good yeah um and in that moment you need the perspective of having felt the alternative exactly which is like no matter how bad this is I've done the other thing and it wasn't it so I'm going to keep doing this the

[20:09] fr the friction to quit goes up proportionally to how bad your situation was before that's why like I think a lot of people will say like immigrants are the best startup Founders because it was so bad for most of them before their friction is so high they'll never quit their friction to go back is so high versus like you know if you worked a medium job your friction is not that bad if you worked a really easy job the friction super low you'll be like okay I'll quit this it's not working I'll go back it's your it's it's what you were saying before you just need to not quit

[20:36] long enough for it to start working that's it that's your only goal and it once it works it works you're good just let it compound yeah you know what this is um I want to get into the content stuff but this is an analogy I think about I remember I think it was the the 2018 uh NBA playoff run I remember being in the UK I think that was when uh Lebron had like a pretty bad Cavs team and he got them to the finals yeah yeah I'm I'm a huge Cavs fan I'm from Ohio so yeah I know it well was that when Kevin Love Kevin Love got hurt in the early

[21:09] series he got his arm pulled out or was that the second I it was the one it was his final season before going to the Lakers okay yeah yeah and uh the one where Jr like messed up and all that and I remember watching these Cleveland games as they were going through the East and it was like every team they went against I think they went to seven games with the Pacers in round one yeah every team they played the opposing team was better than them like completely out playing them but they would just stick around like long enough get to the fourth quarter and then they had the

[21:43] best player by far and he took over yeah and I felt like there was so much to learn from that which is like just stick around like and you'll see it even in the NFL there'll be a team that uh they're outplaying in in every aspect offense defense special teams the opposing team but the team that's losing they just stick around maybe it's like 10 to 14 10 to three they stick around fourth quarter comes they have the best player or whatever they make some plays and it turns and it's actually very similar I think um on the business end which is like just sticking around just

[22:22] keeping the learnings going and then when it's your moment you can capitalize yeah EX exactly that that's the the Jack butcher uh graph where it's like this is pointless you just all of that until the spike is sticking around that's it it's just pick a lane be consistent stick around stick around stick around and like you're getting punched in the face when no meaning like no one's paying attention to your stuff just stick around stick around and you'll have a spike the reason I tried sh form video is like a maybe a transition into the content stuff is it was easier to get it was easier to trick myself to stay

[22:56] because I knew it'd be faster to get a spike that something was working so I knew like I have enough willpower that I'll stick to something for a decade but any human wants some some feedback loop showing it's working like very few people are Mr Beast level delusional where for three years this dude's getting no views or four however many years it was and he's just posting into the void posting into the void nothing coming back very few people have the discipline to do that so I thought all right why don't I hack my brain instead of trying to see if I have the discipline let's just pick a lane that's

[23:30] going to give me signal quicker like daily posting the algorithms pushing me there are a lot of like Tailwinds too but that way like I said before as soon as I had one little glimmer that I was onto something there was something that I was providing that the market wanted that's all I needed to be like I'm doing this forever but until you get that little glimmer it's very hard to be delusionally you know disciplined so that's like another little I guess little brain hack the whole the whole really this whole game is just how do I hack my own brain to keep me in like you

[23:59] were saying we say we're saying the same thing over and over but it's true it's like just stay in and if you need to hack your brain if you need to lie to yourself if you need to create conditions where you can't get out whatever you have to do to stay in the game that's your only job yeah you know what here's the problem I I see when people ask me um anything about starting even with podcasting um and they'll ask questions like oh is it too late to start a podcast or is it too saturated or should I be doing short form or should I be

[24:31] doing Twitter or should I be doing LinkedIn um people have like this uncertainty of what to do of like where to start yeah and all the advice if someone answers that question without any context they're just doing you a disservice and you actually made this point in one of your newsletter um posts which is like there is not a universal Playbook that like I can just give you the steps you can plug it in and it's going to work the same way it did for me for you the Playbook is figuring out your playbook yeah um and so I think it would be interesting when it comes to the question of like

[25:16] which medium of content do I start with I think what's more interesting than giving a definitive answer of like do short form or do a podcast or do LinkedIn or do Twitter it's what is the framework of thinking that you use to decide to do short form yeah and I guess it seems like in your case it was like what's the thing that I would just keep doing right cuz the real answer is which is like a little high level so we can go even more tactical but the real answer is pick whatever is the fastest path to where you can be authentically yourself and original and

[25:55] whatever format that is pick that now each platform has pros and cons in terms of the feedback you'll get to determine if it's working but for example if you feel awkward on video and you just can't let yourself be original be authen not original is a bad a bad Target like let's say be authentic like if you can't look into a camera and be authentically yourself and it's very hard then you shouldn't start with video because you'll give up sooner than if you were talking to a microphone without your face on it or writing so that's like one way to look at it is just it's

[26:26] a little high level and like not super helpful to people because you know it's hard to know like what will all be what will make me authentic like it's kind of a hard question to answer but like that's one frame the other frame is to be like super tactical and data oriented with it so I I was talking about this on Bow's on bow show too it there's really four buckets there's short form video there's long form video we'll say YouTube like 15 20 minute YouTube videos there's audio pod which is podcast and then there's written you also have like images I guess on Instagram but let's

[26:56] let's say not to that CU Instagram throttle that away so you kind of have four four paths we can go through each one and like talk about the pros and cons if you want if if that's helpful to people but really like the other way to look at it from a datadriven perspective is take each bucket and be like okay what are the pros of this what are the cons of this what is the time in required to make one unit of content what will I get out of one unit of content am I okay with those trade-offs and you go through each bucket and you

[27:23] kind of create this procon and you're like all right this this is what I have in front of me let's pick one and go and then you don't second guess that choice until you see traction from that one so the reason one of the reasons short form video is so helpful is because like I mentioned before you can see traction faster you can get signal back faster like with podcasts let's say you're posting once a week the longer between episodes the slower the feedback loop for sure and the harder it will be to grow there's just there's just less like informational context for people to consume so if you if you did a podcast

[27:56] once a month that's going to grow grow slower than once a week that's going to grow slower than daily all things held equal because there's just less for people to consume there's less for people to share the flywheel would just spin slower so you can go all the way down that on that spectrum of like frequency a Twitter a person who's just on Twitter can tweet 10 times a day that's the most frequent and then like writing a novel is like once every two years or like once every decade that's the most infrequent there's so much in between there I think the most important thing like we like you've been saying is

[28:26] fastest path to authentic and what's going to allow me to get the feedback required to keep me in the game so for me I had done podcasting before and it was extremely hard to grow there was a lot of reasons I stopped doing it but one of them was I wasn't getting any signal like I was stuck at the same like barely creeping up over and over and that's why you hear a lot of podcasters say it took me five to seven years to like actually see a a tick up so for me I was like all right I've been down that path I I want faster feedback than a

[28:53] podcast so I want to do one but I don't want to start with one so that's kind of how ruled out the audio format that and like it's really hard to grow because inherently audio isn't there's no like feed there's no algorithm pushing it it's only peer-to-peer sharing is really the only way for audio to grow so that was out written I also had like written newsletters but again those are really hard to grow because people don't share there's no algorithmic feed other than like the substack homepage but you know there's not a lot of people using that so there's no algorithmic feed pushing that you can tweet about it but every

[29:26] platform is Shi towards like de uh de incentivizing people to post links so again there's there's like my reason for not doing the written first except for blueprint which I can get into like why I did I don't even care if that grows that's just more of a documentation and then you're kind of left with the two video options you've got YouTube which is the Golden Goose because you can make a ton of money from it you can you have the YouTube home feed which is like actually how people get recommendations so you've got to algo P pushing it and then you have shorts so for me I was

[29:56] like if I look at making one minute videos five times a week or one video per week that's 15 minutes which would I rather do and for me I sat down and tried to make YouTube videos and it just didn't feel natural to me like it felt I felt super inauthentic in front of the camera so I was like one reason I picked shorts was YouTube didn't feel natural the second reason is I was like shorts is going to be the hardest to compete for attention in video because there's so many so I was like if I can get attention in shorts I can get attention

[30:25] anywhere so it's almost like the hardest thing possible from that perspective and then third is I had the algorithmic Tailwinds Instagram T like Tik Tok changed everything and so Tik Tok and Instagram at the same time we pushing every short form that's coming on there so it's like if I have you can either swing a bat with a donut on it or you can swing a bat without it like I picked the way without it because I want to I want my bat speed to go up so that's what short form is to me yeah you know you actually described it perfectly and it's funny because I I'd never broken it

[30:54] down like that in my mind but that is actually the the exact way that you figure out where to start which is like number one you think about uh what medium can I most authentically convey my personality whatever I'm doing that has to be the most important and then number two is how quickly can I get feedback yeah because the whole game and I remember I think it was was it Zach POG that said this um he said it's not about 10,000 hours it's about 10,000 iterations which is like the 10,000 hour rule is a thing we always hear which is like you just need to have a lot of time

[31:28] spent doing the thing yeah if you do the wrong thing 10,000 hours it's still wrong yeah what you need is the 10,000 iterations you need the small deviations in each test exactly to get to the thing that's right um and so you need both I think the thing that's interesting for me when I reflect on my journey um is you're right about podcasting so hard to grow and very difficult ult really to get good feedback um on a podcast yeah um and the feedback is just slower because also because you're not getting as many views as like the video that blows up uh the spikes aren't as exaggerated so it's

[32:12] harder to see the signal yeah um but once you have it it's extremely defendable that's that's the the other side of it it'sot like I'm about to launch a podcast as well because I love the medium it's just I was like I just can't start there because it will it will take too long to get signal yeah you know you know what's interesting uh I we broke it down like one and two so one is the authenticity two is the uh how quick you can get signal my one was so strong it like completely overwhelmed too where podcasting cuz I tried to do like tweets yeah um like try to grow on

[32:47] Twitter I hated the process of writing yeah and and that's that's signal enough right like as soon as you realize you don't like it you're like all right that's out versus what most people do is like oh like this person on Twitter is making $500,000 a year doing it so like this is the way right that's what most people think is they look at someone they admire and they're like I need to copy their framework even though they know inside they don't like that Medium that's never going to work because even if it worked for one year and you made 500 Grand you won't have the dur like

[33:15] durability to do it for 20 years and so that money's going to run out eventually it's like you're not trying to satisfy a short-term outcome at least I'm not I'm trying to play a really long game and the only way you play a long game is to find a game you like to play yeah so it's so it's so true and the thing is I think people think they ask the question like what is working that is irrelevant it's about what is going to work for you everything is case specific exactly um okay you know what let's let's uh move it on because I'm curious so you do the

[33:45] short form thing yeah you're still you're still working your job at this point yeah so I knew I was like the first like 30 shorts or first 20 shorts I was like just throwing them out and I was like all right this is it's like it's starting to be become fun for me like I'm starting to dial in the process of like how to do it and you got to realize like I I knew how to use a camera but like I didn't know how to edit I don't know how to color grade which I'm not even doing still I don't know how to sync the Audio I don't know

[34:08] how to use Premiere like it takes a while to like get those things ironed out so after 20 30 videos I start like enjoying the process more and and then I started to get signal so I was like I think there's something here like I grew I grew my I think there was like a four or five week period where I grew like 75,000 followers on Tik Tok and Instagram like it was it was nothing nothing nothing then bam and then as soon as the BAM happened I was like all right there's going to be something here where I'm going to leave and do this I

[34:33] just don't know when but I was basically throttling down my effort at the company and throttling up my effort on the side basically until I couldn't do both right like until my mind share that was at the company was inhibiting my ability like I had a few long nights where I was working and I couldn't post a video and that's all it took where I was like [ __ ] this like I don't I don't I don't need to like I'm peeling off all these views and like getting all these Brands to reach out I don't need this this job anymore yeah that's funny I had exactly

[34:59] the same thing yeah um you know what I want to start with that the nothing period yeah so those first and you know actually let me pull up I actually took down the stats and I [ __ ] I [ __ ] love this so this is what you said in your newsletter you said um 21st video on Tik Tok was the first to get 100,000 plus views yeah 41st video was the first to get a million 121st was the first to get 5 million 150 fifth was the first to get 10 million so it takes time and and Reps in the game yeah those first 20

[35:32] videos where like nothing was really popping what cuz cuz let's be honest like that's the graveyard right yeah that sucks like that's where everyone quits yeah so like what are you even what does video one even look like like what are you doing let's see let's pull it out I mean to be to be fair I cringe I cringe so hard at my early videos which is a good sign right that's what people say is like you're putting stuff out before like it's ready but to me at that time I was like these are the best I can do and I was I was like actually

[36:03] okay with it which is surprising because I have like a really high bar for Quality all right while I scroll this down yeah I think in in the first I I I don't know there was something something switched in my mind when I started doing this that was just like this is going to work just don't stop I don't know what it is because I've done a lot of things before and I let myself stop doing them for this for I don't know what it was but there was some signals some subconscious signal they would just like chase this and let it go and I think a

[36:31] couple of my like earlier videos did do decent so all right I'm back to the beginning you know just quickly this that is like the perfect visual representation of what this is is that you were talking for like 30 seconds and just scrolling like it takes [ __ ] time to get good it took time basically like so the business we were doing before I started making shorts was we were trying to build kith on web 3 rails which sounds insane but our whole concept was like imagine a Lifestyle brand kith em Andor but instead of like a couple of Founders imagine there was a small group of like 50 to 100 people who

[37:07] were all co-owners in the business who all had like different Specialties around apparel and fashion and could like come together to almost like crowdsource build a brand that was our idea and we were going to use nfts as the way to like facilitate the ownership so we we were working on that for a while we were like in the Fashion World in the apparel world for like a year year and half let's say so when I started making content I was like all right the thing I know the best right now is that so I made like what makes kith cool was a video I made that like

[37:37] did pretty well I did um The Legend of amond door I did something huge happened with Starbucks like a Starbucks news story I did more on why the Starbucks nft program might work so like you can see it's like it's still tangential to what I was thinking about at the time and I kind of just started doing that and I was like I don't know it's not that I don't see other people doing it but it was just like your the the unique intersection of the what I know the way I tell it and the way I edit no one will be the same as that so I was just like

[38:08] let me just do this to sharpen the skill just at the beginning I was like how do I use Premiere like how do I storytelling online is the most valuable skill set you can possibly have you can apply that to anything you can sell your own products you can sell other people's products if you're a savant Storyteller you're infinitely valuable so I was like all right let's become a saon Storyteller and that's that's how I that's how I started the one that peeled off first was about FTX basically the a niche I found that was relatively untapped was I was taking super complex business happenings and Distilling them

[38:41] down into simple videos now on Twitter there's a lot of people taking super complex business happenings and Distilling them down into threads but but the overlap of like think Boys on Twitter and the people making videos on Tik Tok and Instagram there's not a huge overlap so I was like all right I can't get anything to resonate on Twitter because I'm basically just rinse and repeating what everyone else is saying but there's a huge audience that wants this content over here on Tik Tok and Instagram that has no one making it so that's what I started doing is like FTX what what happened like what the [ __ ]

[39:09] happened to Sam bankman freed I broke that down that video did like two million views I think that was like the first one that got a million and from there it's not that every video I did was in that vein but if you look back a lot of the videos that I've peeled off like Messi 30 million views across both Taylor Swift I've done 30 million views across five videos like all of these are taking culturally relevant companies and people break and something complex that happened to them whether it was like a business deal or something and breaking it down in simple terms that normal people can understand and for some

[39:36] reason that works like there isn't a lot of people doing that on short form video now we can talk about like and I've wrote about this in my newsletter that's great for getting views and like my engagement is super high and people are starting to like me but strategically is it smart for me to become a news source I don't want to be that like I want to be a product Beast like I I want to build my own kith like I want to build real product businesses so you know I kind of feel like there's a little disconnect there but in the beginning all you're looking for is a signal and

[40:04] there was a signal there that there was a market market need yeah everything goes back to me for like what is the framework like what is the way of thinking about it and so I think a lot of people have questions of like where do I start I don't know what to make videos about and this is the thing that I think was very evident um with where you started with the KF stuff just choose something that you're hugely knowledgeable about yeah there's something in your life that you can talk about for like centuries like you could just keep talking about this thing like you're like everyone probably has

[40:40] something that they're like in the top 1% in terms of knowledge on that topic and to be honest it might be something that's like a bit weird like it's like I don't even know like the old trading cards or some [ __ ] yeah but like that is that's kind of where you start something that you can talk about easily and then um I think the other way that I like to think about it now with my content is like every video Let's just try something new yeah like at least one thing is different and it can be small maybe it's the way that we did like the

[41:16] thumbnail or like the the way that like which word we highlighted in the title capitalize something like just try one little deviation like you want to get the I think the other thing that people do wrong they don't experiment enough yeah like you need to get the iterations in the beginning and this is what I've seen actually when I've spoken to anyone who's very successful with content they think about it as one huge experiment and they are constantly even the people at the top are constantly experimenting but to be honest the people at the top it's more difficult for them to experiment than the person who has no

[41:53] views because they have this audience that has an expectation on what they're going to see so literally your competitive Advantage as the new Creator is you can iterate way faster way in a much more like crazy fashion like you could have one video on fashion the next one is sports the next one is business the next one is like work culture like you could do whatever the [ __ ] you want and no one is going to care cuz you're not known yet and so you really have to like lean into that um yeah and I even do that now it's like a lot of the

[42:27] conventional advice is like Niche down get a niche have a niche I don't really believe in that I think you are the niche like I am the niche I'm n equals one there's nobody with the unique combination of interests and passions that I have so I always thought let me just make videos about what I care but I still do that now I have a big following and like one day will be an AI tool I'm playing with the next day is a cultural icon the next day is a brand like I'm just I'm just [ __ ] around to be honest like I the way I think of it is

[42:53] like whatever's interesting to me in the moment moment that's what I chase because I heard something on uh Rick rubin's podcast I don't know if you've ever heard of it it's a Tetra Tetra griton which I guess means god or something weird name but yeah Rick rubin's like a legend in music and he was interviewing John May and John May was talking about the way he makes music makes songs like a lot of times he'll go into the studio he's hunting like he's got nothing he's has he has nothing he's like playing little riffs and little ddles and then the minute he gets something he's like clear my schedule

[43:28] I'm not leaving the studio until I finish the song because he's like when I go out those doors and come back I'm a different person and the energy around that song is different I look at content the like making these videos the exact same way so when I sit down and I'm looking for Signal whatever grabs me my best videos are when I just rip the whole video right there and I don't think twice about it and that means whatever's grabbing me is not going to be in a niche cuz I'm not looking in one I'm not reading one publication I'm looking all over and so anytime I've

[43:59] like premeditated a video and try to like really plan it out and like really overthink it never does well any time I'm the messy one I was just I was in the sauna listening to uh this group chat podcast I heard them talk about the messy deal I went right home peeled it off 30 million views like that's all that's all it is is just following your intuition for what's interesting and then the hard part which we can get into is like translating why you think it's interesting into a story that people actually resonate with like that's that is the hard part for me like if there's

[44:28] one mystical magical part about what I do I can take a kernel of an idea and have it recorded in like 30 minutes and write the write the thing so fast I don't know I don't know what it is I my brain just works in that way I've tried though and we can go through like my storytelling framework or like one of them that works I've tried to reverse engineer that so I can give it to people and be like here's here's the pattern that I like after making 10 of these I looked at it tried to reverse engineer the pattern and then handed the story

[44:54] framework in my email to people and that works sometimes but there's a little bit of an element of like magic it's the same way like when you make a podcast if your your brain immediately is like here's how I should package it and you just know you can't really tell people like how you did that you could try to reverse engineer different ways to think about the packaging but there is a little bit there's a little bit of Special Sauce there so that's that's the only Special Sauce everything else as we've been saying is like formulaic and you can like really think through what to do yeah you know what it it reminds

[45:23] me of it's like um I wrote this in my notes I said Ingenuity is at the edges so basically like the and I've kind of leared this about the creative process it's usually a combination of like a whole lot of factors all coming together in one moment and it's like the intersection of all of these circles and right in the middle is where like the magic is is where the original thought is and you know actually something um while it's on my mind something really interesting that you said said in one of your newsletters because um and you know what let's talk about some of the some

[46:00] of the common things we hear about content creation and I even say some of this stuff which is like the the established content creator who's gotten the billions of views and whatever if they get on a video or on a podcast and you ask them how do I get started or how should I be thinking about this what's the mindset they 99 times out of a hundred will say just be consistent yeah and I think the thing is part of the reason you're a beginner is because you don't know what truly matters yet you haven't done enough experiments to know like here are the things that I actually have to nail in a

[46:41] video yeah for it to be good so you're kind of just trying a bit of everything I'm curious where do you land in terms of like if you thought about what it took to be successful like once it started working working and it was clicking and the views were coming in what was it that you were doing correctly and maybe we can even bucket it out like some of the factors that people commonly say which is like I guess the ideas the packaging uh just being consistent and you just have to do a lot of it like where does it Ladder Up in terms of what do you actually need to

[47:17] be successful yeah well I think the thing with consistency is what you were saying Zach said which is the whole reason you want to be consistent is so you can get more more iterations just consistency for consistency sake doesn't work right because if you're if you're bad and then you're just bad a lot you'll still be bad so if you if you read the email a lot of what I write about is like and and I didn't start writing I wish I started writing that from week one period like of making content I started writing it week one of my fulltime so at least we'll have that

[47:44] historically but like a lot of what I write about is I don't know what to iterate on so I'm like I'm to the point now where it's like okay the little things of like the audio sucks or the video is not straight or the the editing could be better like I've fixed all those and now I'm like sending it into the void and it's not like there's a magic fairy that's like hey by the way like you should probably change this for next time nobody's telling you what to change it's just do does it resonate does it get shared does it get views or not and so that's where like consistency

[48:13] the whole point of consistency is that you're it forces you to do it enough to where you can start to notice what to improve after the initial stuff because the initial stuff you know what to improve you're just like I need to do it but once you get to a certain level that's what consistency is for so I kind of I kind of view consistency as like if you're GNA do something and you're not going to be consistent you'll never win so consistency is kind of like table Stakes I don't really think that's like Step Zero so I wouldn't even look at consistency as a what was the big

[48:39] trigger because if you don't if you're not consistent it's not going to work the big trigger I think is it really comes out so I was writing about this last week it's I either originality of ideas or high execution and we can go through the the frame that I was I was just playing with that I didn't think through it for like hours and hours so maybe there's an edge case I didn't cover but I think originality of ideas is the creme de La Creme like that's the most important thing and so if you think about who comes to mind when you think the most original ideas for me it's Mr

[49:10] Beast like he comes up with the most original crazy [ __ ] and it is Big production but it's also very original if you think about like putting a person aged 1 to 100 in a glass enclosure in like a warehouse like that's pretty original and so and it's no coincidence to me that he is the most followed most viewed person on the planet and and he's the most original on the other side it's like there are people that are not original at all that execute extremely well I'm trying to think of a good example without like ripping somebody but you know like like there there's

[49:41] examples where people execute so well and they're not really original and they do well but I think the problem is when you're starting out you're never going to be 10 out of 10 execution you're always like climbing your way up so the way to the way to get traction is to try to be more original and it's not like you can most people can't just think like sit and think like what original ideas do I have today you kind of have to just be authentic to to your interests and try to try to connect dots in a way that you haven't seen so sometimes I'll make videos that after I

[50:11] make them I find people who had those takes but at the time I was like damn I haven't seen this anywhere like this is a very original thought and those are the ones that really resonate like I made a Netflix one a couple weeks ago where I was like I think Netflix has a master plan to become Disney 2.0 like just that alone that little konel alone I was like all right that's a pretty original take like I haven't really seen that by any analyst I haven't read anything about that you know the video did how it did for a variety of other factors but I think consistency allows

[50:39] you to train your brain to have more reps at trying to be original and so your hit rate of originality goes up over time that's that's I guess that's a good way to like summarize consistency what you uh there was actually we did an episode yesterday I don't I don't remember exactly I don't remember exactly how the guest said it he worded it really well which is like um great ideas aren't really like made they kind of come to you yeah it's true like you're just like doing something and a lot of the times it's when you're not even doing the task yeah you're like in the shower and then suddenly it like

[51:18] hits you out of nowhere and it's like this moment of inspiration and so the thing is is that you kind of I think some people are trying to be original without being involved like you have to be doing the thing like that's where you start to kind of see where the gaps are is when you're actually and I think that's what you the way that you framed consistency is actually really good which is like that's the table Stakes that like it gives you the foundation that you can then start doing things really well exactly um it Chels your channels your attention towards the the like slice of stuff you want and

[52:00] then the way the dots connect that's where originality comes from but you it's very hard to like purposefully connect on disconnected dots like it's very hard to do that only that's why you hear people say like there's only so many original thinkers in the world original thinkers can think about a problem and connect disparate dots really well from like other places they pull them together I can do that sometimes but more often than not it's just I'm channeling energy toward WS the slice and different things come to me at and then and then the key is I action them immediately so like as soon as I

[52:32] have it I go to the computer and I make the video like I don't I don't mess around like I don't you know buy a domain name I don't plan about I don't like try to do some designs and then get to it later like as soon as that happens I go and and and that's that's another thing that's like a little bit people don't people don't really talk about that I think Zach has had a good uh frame on this it might have been on your show too he's just like when when the inspiration strikes Sprint at it hard as hard as you possibly can work on it till

[53:00] it's done and and ship it that's that's really it yeah it's like it's a moment it's a moment it's not always going to be there fleeting ex the Confluence of all those ideas and you at that moment will never happen again maybe the Confluence of those ideas will happen like you could think about something three days later but you in that moment the amount of energy you have the you know the passion you have for it the schedule you have the place you are in time all those things will change three days from now and the moment is probably going to be gone yeah okay you know what

[53:28] let's carry let's carry on building building this for people so uh carry on building the blueprint I like that um and would it help to talk about like what the blueprint is and like why I like it just like why I started writing it this way yeah you know you know before we get to that though so I kind of want to I want to build on the journey so those first 20 videos it's like you're just trying things you're experimenting you're looking for the signal like what's the what's the spike like what's the thing that's out of the ordinary um that I can then use of like

[53:59] we found something like we found gold so here's my question if we carry on once you found the thing so the Sam bankman freed video where does your mind go next right because it's like okay I had one video that worked but like how are you kind of taking what worked there and then repackaging that into like a formula like even your storytelling framework of like okay here's how we can do it again and again and again and again yeah well the first thing I did was make two more s bankman freed related videos cuz the thing is like when you're searching if you like think about if you have a metal

[54:38] detector in sand and you're like nothing nothing nothing and then you find something in the sand the first thing you're going to do is look in that area again like so the first thing I did was and I'm looking at I'm looking at the videos that I made right after like very quickly after I made two more about that like two of the next three were related and one of those went viral again so I was like all right am I just like a Sam bigman freed guy at this point like right so so you don't want to like but and then I made a third one four videos

[55:05] later that went 2.6 million views so like I had a lot of content on this and so the the thing you have to do then is two things one try to reverse engineer the story framework and the other is reverse engineer the theme so that theme is kind of like complex business simplified we'll say or it's crypto like it could be a couple things but like it ended up being complex business simplified and the story framework was you're never going to believe this let me tell you what happened bunch of mini conflicts inside you know we don't know what's going to happen stay tuned like that that was kind of the framework so

[55:38] almost like news reporting but in like an interesting way so nothing too like crazy but then um if I look at the the list of videos in terms of like what next went viral I had one where I was like I think a per I think personalized vitamins could be a good business idea which is completely different from B fre that one went viral another one was like the Airbnb founder quit to launch a new startup that one went viral so it's kind of hard sometimes to see the signal because things are working but you don't know why and and that's kind of the name of the game with shorts is like you're

[56:11] not gonna I'm not going to make 10 Sam bakman freed videos over and over because eventually that that story is going to get played out and so once the new cycle was done there was no reason to do that but I can kind of take some you know it's hard it's like I can take some kernels from it and try to reverse engine but I think the key is that rep put an arrow in my quiver of like okay that story works so when then when I sit down to make another video subconsciously my brain's like gravitating towards the thing that worked right that that's that's what

[56:40] we're talking about with consistency is like because I had made 20 30 videos before I had a few arrows in my quiver of like things that could work and then when I sit down for the Airbnb video I pull a couple and like those arrows get better as I get better and so I get more dialed every single time H I'm curious like how how in the moment is it versus like purely analytical so once you get one that works how much are you like are you sitting down and being and analyzing like oh I use this line as the hook and none of that it's all in the moment okay

[57:13] fair it's all intuitive which which is why it's hard for a beginner to hear me and be like well how do I do it then which is why I try to break things into these story Frameworks after like I don't go through the analytics to go the analytics because I think it's all intuition but to help others which is like that's why I write the blueprint to give all of it away for free which we can get into but like to help others I kind of need to go into the analytics and figure out what the formula could have been and just present it to people

[57:40] maybe it works for them maybe it doesn't but I don't ever do that in the moment yeah you know I was reading one of your um speaking of the blueprint I was reading one of your additions and you were saying um you'd done like a week of posting you like several of the videos just didn't really hit and you make this joke you're like I still need to eat like I need to put dinner on the table and luckily for me like I know the exact formula for how to get something to go viral in short form video yeah so if you were going to put words to what that

[58:11] formula is what would you say yeah let's pull it up Let's do let's pull up the I'm just going to pull it up so I have the notes so I can say exactly what I wrote before um so this is what I use this you're talking about what I use for the messy video yeah so this is what I Ed for the messy video which I think this is the most consistent story framework that's worked for me now you may say like okay well if you figured that out like if you found the gold why why has every video you've ever made after that not gone viral and the reason

[58:38] is a couple things one virality has a lot to do with what you try but there's a lot of factors that are luck and like you can't control when the algorithm will pick it up did it get shared by someone notable so there's some things you can't control two my job is to try to experiment and find 10 of these so that I have a a whole backpack full of stories that work so I can't make every video the same exact formula because then it'll get dry like people watching my stuff will be like oh it's it's too predictable and like the unpredictable nature of content is why people stick

[59:09] around that's like how why the dopamine fires so I'm kind of like messing with it the good news is at any time with the right topic like usually some pop culture related topic I can peel off 5 million views like if I want to at the at at any time I can do that now like we said before there's strategically like who I want to become and what I want my audience to be doesn't necessarily overlap perfectly with the people that would resonate so like I can make a Taylor Swift video and go five million right now but Taylor Swift fans and like who I want my audience to be which is

[59:41] entrepreneurs creators business Builders because that's who I am that's like what I want to build long term for those don't really overlap so every time I do the Taylor Swift thing I'm just building more fandom in an area that I don't want to double down in so it's kind of like you know a pick apart but let's get into the the story framework so this is kind of how I laid it out there's five pieces there's the hook the context the conflict resolution and then last dab so I'll go through each of them so the hook everybody hears the hook they're like the hook the hook

[1:00:11] everyone's talking about the hook I hate like referencing it the same way everyone else does but the way I think of the hook there's three subp parts to it so at the beginning if you go back to my Beginning video my early videos I would do something that's very common with beginners where it's kind of the first line is kind of like I'm going to tell you about something cool today and then the second line is when you get into it cut that cut cut that I'm going to tell you about something cool the first thing you say needs to be like what you're talking about so for the Leo

[1:00:36] Messi video I forget exactly what it was but it was like Leo Messi just said no to a billion dollars something like that right so is exact like the first sentence you hear is something happened interesting then the second second part of the hook is what I call the Shocker so you need to give some data point that supports that thing in a way that you'll never believe so maybe the first sentence was like uh I think it was Leo Messi just changed the business Sports forever that was the first sentence the second was he said no to1 billion so that's the Shocker where it's like one

[1:01:07] billion like why would he say no to that right so your brain is like Leo Messi said Leo Messi Sports he said no to 1 billion right now you're like I know what it's about but why the [ __ ] did he do that and you're like you're wondering then the third sentence is the misdirection I call which and this works every time you get them leaning it's like boxing right you get them leaning you hit them with the counter like you get them leaning one way and then you misdirect so their brain is like what so for that video was like Leo Messi just changed the business Sports forever he

[1:01:34] said no to $1 billion like but it was but but he made the best financial move he possibly could because you're leaning like said no to $1 billion he's probably going to talk about why that was a dumb move and then I hit you with the misdirection which is like it was actually a really smart move so now you're like so intrigued about it because you know what it's about enough to stay if you're a Leo Messi fan or football fan you know but you're like confused so that's that that hook framework works every single time so that's where I start then it's a dance between the context and the

[1:02:04] conflict because this is like the meat of the post you you need to tell people what's going on but you need to hide like mini conflicts inside because the way your brain works psychologically is you you want to close Loops so if I say like Leo and I think Shan Pur said this he said it very well if I say like Leo did this and then he did this and and then he did this and then he did this it's just one Loop that's kind of and you can predict when it's going to close so you're not really interested but if I say Leo did this but then this happened

[1:02:33] and why did that H like then I'm opening separate loops and you're like oh [ __ ] like I I need these Loops to close and so you keep watching and so it's really a dance between more contextual information and like little baby conflicts the best way to introduce the conflicts is usually saying but something so or like you know however something so it's context and conflict then at some point you need to resolve make sure all Loops come closed so like you there needs to be a resolution I think on the Leo Messi video was kind of like you know he signed with inter Miami

[1:03:02] and that's good for him it's good for inter Miami it's good for MLS like I kind of closed all the loops and then this is something most people don't do the last dab which is the way to get videos to go really viral the the last thing you leave somebody with needs to hit them with like a whoa like that was crazy because their your brain is so temporary that you won't really remember most of what I said like which is sad but like you'll know it was about Messi you'll know Messi did something cool you'll think maybe remember $1 billion but you're not going to remember

[1:03:32] anything else so I got to make sure the last line is just as good as the misdirection and so the videos that I've done that have done the best have some like crazy thing in the last line like I I made one uh where I changed my voice to Kanye and I like wrapped wrapped a verse um or actually well I did that but a different video because I knew I could do that with Kanye I made a video about the music industry in Ai and it was all like what's what's the music industry going to do like why are they thinking about this and the last line was me

[1:04:01] changing it to Kanye like I did this like flicker thing and I changed my voice and that that just that little bit people were like holy [ __ ] and so many people commented and shared because they're like the last line was crazy last line was crazy so that's that's how I'd break it down is a is a good framework you know what's interesting um Stephen B talked about it in it spoke about it in his book which is um psychologically it's proven that every interaction like things that are memorable to us we remember um how it started we remember either the best or the worst moment and then how it ended

[1:04:37] yeah and so he even gives this example he's like if you're going on a date right with someone like a first date the only things that you actually really need to nail so that it's memorable and they want to go out with you again is like the Pinnacle moment so either like obviously you want it to be really good they're going to remember either it's good or bad and then how it ended so if if they had an amazing date but then the ending was like kind of awkward it actually in your brain you don't even remember that much of the amazing stuff you just remember oh it was a bit weird

[1:05:11] you stamp it in like the weird categ it was the weird it was just weird um that's super interesting okay so here's where I want to go with the short the short form stuff and I want to bring it to um what you were doing with your job because I think there's a group of people out there who they've started doing the content stuff and uh their dream is to go all in on that business and the content that they're building however there's like there's almost like a pull and an addiction to staying in the job yeah and so I kind of want to draw on two threads actually the first

[1:05:46] thing is that um I feel like with short form content there's a tendency for there to be a lot of like vanity metric there is so like people are getting all these views but it's not amounting to anything like it's not building a brand it's not uh making them money it's not directing to a product how how kind of what was the thought process of even being able to leave your job like what were you seeing happen where you were like okay I'm not just getting views I'm actually I can leave like I can I know I want to leave but practically like in a money sense like

[1:06:29] looking at my account I can leave yeah there I think there's a few things to this one is like what your situation is already and then two is like the signal of what you're doing and how money's coming in from it so maybe I'll start with the second one first so I was getting like five emails a week from Brands being like we'll pay you three to five grand to make a short for us and I was getting those a lot and I did a few so I was like okay I can like do the math on on this like it'll work if those keep happening and I I figured if my

[1:06:58] following just keeps going up the numbers will just keep the money will just keep going up and like those Brands will continue to be there so that was one signal was like I did start monetizing right so a lot of people will quit before they start monetizing or before they even know it's working I wouldn't do that that's what I did yeah I mean you can do it and podcasting is different because you know it's going to take longer before like we said you know it's going to take a little bit longer before you get the signal yeah but for me I was like I guess once I made the jump I was like

[1:07:30] I'm not going back I'm never going back so it was easier to make it a no-brainer if the money coming in was like going to replace the salary or like even close to it or even part of it so I think that matters Tik Tok also launched their creator fund which started paying me 60 cents per thousand views on qualified views so for reference like if I have a video that goes 10 million views I make six grand on that on one video so I had a few that peeled pretty good so I was like okay a combination of like that and the brand deals and like I don't have

[1:08:03] any digital products yet I don't have any anything else and it's like it's going to work so that was helpful but I think the other side of it what I said is my situation already fortunately like my wife is in Consulting so like I had a rare situation where like she could support us both if if we had to which is like a good back stop I guess so had that and like you know random random stuff that I had been working for eight years so like I kind of built up to the point of getting to go if you're 22 with no partner and you have no like you know

[1:08:35] that I understand that's I'm privileged for that so like if you're 22 and don't have that take that off the table but but the other thing I said is really important which is I made these videos with a full-time job for six to S months before leaving and I was I was make I started making money before I left so that's one way to think about it but to be honest like if you have even a little I it's tough to put numbers on it because everyone's situation is different but I think if you have between six and 12 months reasonable expenses that's all you need

[1:09:08] to go because what what you really if you really want it like if you want it bad if you have that dog in you then if it doesn't work 6 months you burn through your expenses and you make no money you'll just go get another job similar to what you had save up six months and go again and just you're probably better off ping ponging through that in your 20s than than you know getting tempted with the golden handcuffs where you like stick with a corporate job and like ladder up and then your salary becomes like pretty good and you're like oh now it's a lot

[1:09:36] to lose if you're if you're entry level and like you're not making that much but you like save aggressively that ping pong it'll work right because you're like we said the figh or flight will kick in you're so like so uh so determined to not go back that you'll figure it out yeah so It's a combination it's kind of like people don't leave soon enough for the money they have in the bank if you have fortuitous situations like a partner whatever that helps too but also if you pick a vehicle where you can start monetizing more quickly which I would say like YouTube short form would be that then you can

[1:10:12] you know justify it yeah you know I want to get I want to get into the specific moment when you left before we do that talk to me about the brand deals I think people have a lot of questions around that like yeah how did that even come about and was there looking back is there a way that you can do your content your short form content where it's primed for Brands to want to work with you and give you better rates yeah I mean what this was like semi intentional semi not but like my content Niche I describe as like new tech and cult Brands so like if someone were to

[1:10:47] describe me to someone else what I think they'd say and what I hope they'd say is like if you want to know about about the cool [ __ ] going on this guy will tell you in like a way that's fun and engaging which means if you're any brand with any product that you want to be viewed as like cool [ __ ] going on which is every brand they're going to want me to cover it so like on this content side I want to be like one of the top five to 10 people that you know users consumers ideally creators Builders entrepreneurs segment look to to be like that guy

[1:11:18] knows what's going on and he tells it to us in a way that's unique and we like it if that's true every brand every tech product every whatever vertical I choose to pick will want to to work with me so I was kind of like that's helpful like that's that's a little closer to like directly related than if I was doing like comic book videos and I had to like stretch to find ways that Brands could interact so that was helpful that was like intentional like when I realized that this was kind of where my content authentically was going I was like all right we're going to be good the second

[1:11:49] thing is basically before I left I wanted two I wanted to prove two things one I could go viral at will and two I can get paid for doing this those are the two things so I figured out how to go viral at will after like 100 to 150 videos so that was like six months and then a couple times I reached out to Brands because I wanted to test like if I just reach out and say I have 300,000 followers at the time and like I'll do a video for X like will they say yes so I got that to happen a couple times also I got inbound from a

[1:12:18] few brand a few like big like Adobe was one that came inbound and they paid like really well so I was like all right I'm getting inbound from Adobe I can go outbound and tell and like get money relatively easily and I can go viral at will it's like this is just it's just too good not to bet on myself you know so you know what that's actually a really cool point which is like in a way I don't know if curator is the right way to say it but if you're the person that can like look in a field and decide what's cool then there's a m yeah taste

[1:12:48] then there's instantly a money like value number attributed to that exactly all all I want is to sharpen my taste to the point where my desired audience which is Builders entrepreneurs creators trust the taste and it's like aspirational the way I tell it that's all I want if I can do that which I'm like on the path but still have so so you know so long to go but if I can do that if I can become the way like I don't know if you know Peter McKinnon but the way sounds familiar anyone who's in C uh photography videography like cameras will know Peter McKinnon the way

[1:13:23] Peter McKinnon's taste for what's dope and the way he tells stuff what's dope in that area everybody in in videography photography worships this guy he can do anything he's done crazy like he has like jewelry Brands coffee brands he goes and shoots concerts with uh with with huge bands like he can do whatever he wants because his taste so I think what what what being an influencer which I [ __ ] hate that word but like it's really a taste maker right that's if you're a taste maker in whatever vertical you're in and authentically people respect your taste you're set forever and then you would say the taste

[1:14:00] if you had to almost Define how you become a great taste maker you think it's the storytelling like would that be the component which is like that's what allows you to have the influence like that's why people listen the storytelling is not it it's it's like a two two-piece package The Taste comes from identification like finding the needles in the hay stack so it's like the scanning and picking is the tast the Stell is theing so it's like I'll find what's and I'll tell you about it in a way you like you can tell people about stuff in a way they like but if you don't find what's cool you have no taste

[1:14:34] you can find what's cool but if you don't have any way to tell people you're just like you know a cool taste maker that nobody follows if you put them together it's extremely valuable so I was kind of like you can't buy taste you can't wake up and have taste you have to cultivate taste over time which a lot of it is just like looking at huge amounts of information and trying to pick out the interesting stuff so I knew like I couldn't I couldn't create taste in one night but I knew the easier thing to create was like how to become a storytelling Savant so I was like if I

[1:15:02] could just become a storytelling Savant my taste will come over time when they come maybe it's two years five years and like it's iterative but like when it gets to the point where it's people actually trust my taste I'll have already become a storytelling Savant I'll I can sell anything either my products or or brands that I love that's powerful okay I'm curious when you get into those conversations with Brands what are they telling you the reason is they want to work with you so like I get the taste I get the taste thing but is there like a a metric is there something they said where they're

[1:15:31] like okay this is why we're willing to give you this money like what's the thing that truly matters usually it's it's it's nothing definitive to be honest and I think that's why there's a lot of money out there for creators usually the reason they reach out is either I made a video about their brand permissionless for free that went viral or I made a video about their category I made a bunch of videos about their category that went viral and they're they're doing their job like the marketer PR person is doing their job like scanning who's talking about this and so because I can go viral saying I

[1:16:03] go viral at will is like pretty egotistical like that's not completely true like if you look at my videos I haven't had a mega mega viral one in a in a couple weeks so it's not like really it's not like really true hilarious yeah it's not it's not like really true um I can go I can go viral well with certain topics let's say but like when those people reach out they see all the times that I've gone viral in that category and then you know they they see me as a as someone with taste who can storytellin that Niche so AI tools is kind of like the first one that

[1:16:31] really ripped because I I I had like a phase where I was just like let me just Hammer AI for a while and see if I can you know make make content here so that's one thing and then but but I there's not really like a threshold of metrics like the what really happens if you really want to know the behind the scenes this is what I think's going on not to like blow anyone's spot but like [ __ ] it I think what happens let's say adobe's releasing a a a new tool the Adobe will set a budget let's say it's like a million dollar PR budget they'll

[1:16:58] hire a PR firm they'll tell the pr firm yo go spread this million around the tast makers in AI up to your discretion we want and then like report us back the cumulative metrics of how they campaigned it so what the pr team will go do is they'll reach out to me they'll reach out to a bunch of other people they based on how many followers we have and like how well our videos have done we'll have like kind of like rates in a Range they're they're adding those people up to get to the million then we all make our videos now if mine doesn't do well in that one wave but someone

[1:17:27] else's does it'll smooth out in the cumulative metrics if mine does well someone else's doesn't whatever so they'll run the campaign maybe they'll get 50 videos and then they'll take some of the money and they'll run paid ads against the videos so like let's say I I was able to get 500,000 views with like pretty high engagement on my own they'll then take my video put paid ads behind it and then my video will look like it has 4 million views but really it only earns earned like 500,000 they bought the rest that really Smooths out the cumulative metrics when they report back so and I'm sure they're I'm sure they're

[1:18:00] splitting it out like organic versus paid but at the end of the day like Adobe doesn't have time to know who every taste maker is negotiate every video deal so they Farm it out to a PR team and I what I think is happening is a lot of these brands are doing that a lot of these PR teams have these huge P you know buckets of money and then they're they're paying influencers with it and and and there's nothing wrong with that like that is how the industry works but um I think there's more efficient ways for Brands I'm actually working on with a buddy I'm trying to

[1:18:31] build a tool that can that's can help do this more efficiently for brands in one way so I'm sure there's others but that's kind of how it works and then yeah they reach out they're like you know to get super tactical they reach out they're like we like the content you made we want to do a deal here's how much we'll pay you per video we want to do two videos three videos you know here are the terms and the terms are just like you put our Link in your make the video put our Link in your bio do the hashtags and then that's it yeah the way

[1:18:57] that you broke it down um it reminds me something that I read on your newsletter as well which is the creator in Residence the way that you broke down that whole process of how they do it it actually Clicks in my brain why the Creator and residence makes sense for big companies you want to break that down yeah that's what I want so right right now and one of my one of my like Creator influences Carl Shakur he made a video about this a couple couple days ago where he's like he's like this might rub people the wrong way but like I really don't like brand deals because

[1:19:28] what what happens with these brand deals the way they're constructed now is company reaches out they'll say we want you to make a video about X but you got to send it to us a few days in advance and like we review it and we'll give you edits and notes and we got to negotiate the contract by the time it's all said and done like it took so much creative energy and time for me who I could have just sat down and peeled it off in one day and it would have gone viral if I had complete creative freedom but but instead it's this like purifying of the message and

[1:19:56] like channeling it down to this average product that's why brand videos don't do that well to be honest so he was like I don't really like these brand deal videos I'm trying to monetize a different way I kind of agree like I I want to I want to work with my favorite Brands and I want to help them sell a [ __ ] ton but I don't like the way that they go at it right now which is very like Hands-On curating the message like anytime you say this is a collaboration with no one's going to engage with it like you know it just doesn't work that

[1:20:24] way so what I was thinking would be better is this Creator and residence idea which is what I really want is I want five to 10 companies that I really [ __ ] with so like let's say Shopify Google you know let's let's say Adobe whatever like big companies that I care about and I basically want a contract in place that says anytime you find something interesting that we did you have full creative license to rip a video on on it and if it hits certain metrics we'll pay you at this rate if it doesn't hit the metrics we won't pay you and we'll only do like a Max of x per quarter and you

[1:21:01] know we can renegotiate the rate every quarter like if my following goes up but what that allows for me to do is like be creatively untethered to anything and if I see something interesting I'll be like oh sick I'll have extra motivation because if it doesn't hit the metrics I don't get paid but it allows me to get branded deals that keep me alive without having to do the negotiation every time and the back and forth and like them take creative control and the videos not do well because of that so I think this idea of like well I guess there's that and then this idea of where I have free range to

[1:21:34] do whatever I want and the deals are in place where like they automatically get facilitated so both sides don't have to deal with the overhead that's pretty dope yeah that's what that's where I wanted to go yeah that's sick and actually um from working I worked in marketing at a few startups and like that would like make so much much sense yeah because then as a startup it's almost like a it's like a sponsorship for F1 or whatever where it's like adobe's like these are our 10 people these are our 10 guys and girls that like we have as creators and residents they have full Reign like if

[1:22:08] you see something from them about us it starts to build this like interesting Creator brand Dynamic and like as a Creator maybe I only have you know five to 10 of these I get sent free product I feel like part of the team you know like or as in golf where like you're like oh is this person a Nike golfer it's like there's only 10 of those and they wear Nike [ __ ] all the time and they talk about Nike and they're in the commercials like I think that's how Creator brand partnership should move because right now it feels extremely transactional and it's not fun for the

[1:22:35] Creator yeah thing is you want the Creator in the element right which is being creative yeah so you want to create the system that allows them to be creative that's the whole game yeah um okay here's where I want to move and we can end here actually which is um so you get you get to a point where where you have and I think it was actually making sense it was aligning in a few categories right so uh in a practical sense your ability to make money your ability to get views on your content you are very confident about and then in terms of your mindset you would kind of

[1:23:10] Reach This threshold where it was like negative returns you being at your job like it was like detrimental yeah um in terms of your creativity your time freedom all of those things like it was time to make the jump yeah I'm curious so it made sense across both AIS why you had to do this thing why you had to leave I think there's a lot of people out there that it makes sense why they should leave they still struggle um I'm curious was there like a struggle for you in any way was it like was there a difficulty in handing in that final like notice of like I'm out no not at all I

[1:23:52] want it out of there dude from the second there was there was maybe like a 12-month period at the beginning of building that like little startup on my own where I was like this is cool this is fun but pretty quickly you realize you have no upside and for some reason my brain doesn't work well when I don't have unlimited upside I just don't like I can't bring myself to go all in when I don't have the upside which I guess is like a good signal that I should be an entrepreneur yeah because most people don't some people don't care about the upside they're just like they want

[1:24:19] stability and that's a really good candidate for a corporate role so yeah for me I was like I got to get out of there and we were talking about this before I think a lot of people overstate the risk of leaving and they undervalue what they could get by leaving so a way to think about it maybe in like a frame that if I would have heard this I would have left a while a while before so like first of all when you leave let's I was into L Consulting right when I quit let's just say the worst case scenario is what I try to do doesn't work and I

[1:24:50] burn through all my money there's almost a 100% chance that I could go to any consulting firm at that level or one step below and get a job easily because I have like the resume credentials to do it it's not as though like it was rare for me to get that job like maybe it was rare for me to get out of undergrad but like once once you're in the job for a few years like that check mark proves that you should be able to get that job so like a there really is no risk career risk let's say maybe you're like behind your peers I

[1:25:19] guess but that's some [ __ ] that like people just make up that's one two is and this is like a really important point when you most people are mailing it at their job let's just say and when you mail it in you're not really compounding your skills like there are some jobs where you're you're growing skills at a rapid rate but let's just assume those people like their job so for the majority of people they're mailing it in they're working like five hours a day they're on their couch sticking around like they don't really care when you leave your job you have or like like at a corporate

[1:25:50] job at the end of the rainbow you have no asset to sell like there's there's there's nothing of value and you could be like well my skills are of value but you've been like mailing it in and not really compounding skills so you have no you have no asset versus if you go on your own and you build something even if it fails you can sell that asset like for me I I wouldn't want to do this but like I could sell the Callaway channels to someone for some dollar like they're worth more than zero and so it's like even if you make the argument that

[1:26:20] you're compounding skills at a job you're also compounding skills on your own so let's just say the compounding skills are the same at the end of the rainbow for the job you have nothing to sell which means there's no cash flow mechanism for you to continue earning that's why you're on the job treadmill forever starting your own thing you earn the skills but you also have some asset a lot of times that asset can be sold even if it's like a website a Blog you can sell it for 15 20 grand 30 grand 50 Grand like there's an asset there so like it's not even it's that would be in

[1:26:50] favor for leaving so I think the combination of like you can get the job back whenever you want and it's actually more financially beneficial for you to and have some an asset that you could sell potentially versus not to me it's like we were saying this before this is how I think of it if you have where's my camera that that's like a rapid thing if you have the dog in you you owe it to yourself and your family and I would say the world to take a swing because the way the world move forward was pioneers and innovators bet on themsel to build stuff to push it Forward not everyone

[1:27:28] almost no one has that in them but if you have it in you you owe it to the world and your family and yourself to take a swing like you really do and that's how that's how I view it I I I it's tough to S sit here and say that when my actions for the first seven years were to like be in this corporate hell hole but like I've now seen the light and realize that there's just there's two types of people there's either you can be an entrepreneur and want to be or you don't and if you do want to be you owe it to yourself to

[1:27:58] leave yeah you know you know what the thing is for me um and my opinions on it have changed somewhat because um I think the entrepreneurship thing I think it is for a certain type of personality but I think it is genuinely difficult like it is very difficult and there are certain things uh and this would be interesting actually for a separate conversation but there's certain things about a job that make your life a lot easier like you don't even realize like Mouse mover by chance what did you say like Mouse mover yeah like you just sit at home with move like a lot of people have move Mouse on

[1:28:37] you know so it's just like they're active yeah exactly exactly I think the thing you know what if I was just going to say it quickly the thing that surprised me the most uh I actually learned it about myself having left my job is um I realized I was kind of addicted to validation there's a lot of ways when you have a job you get validated in small ways that you're not even really cognizant of yeah so for example just the fact that you get paid is validation like once you start doing your own thing you could objectively in terms of your inputs in terms of your

[1:29:14] discipline how you're committing yourself how you're learning the intensity your productivity you can be hit in tens across the board make no money like no one care like no no one cares you're not getting paid um just for showing up and like being present there actually has to be like a result and so you have to start to validate yourself and that's why a lot of um I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs have this intense self-belief is like they need to be able to tell themselves that I'm doing the right thing because the world a lot of the time when you're an entrepreneur isn't telling you that yeah

[1:29:53] like you're not getting paid you're not getting the million dooll checks and all the agulation that you see of the people that are at the top especially when you're starting um and so for me I think what you said is correct which is like if you have that dog in you though like if you have that in you and it's truly in you then it gets to the point where you're like you just don't want to live with regrets exactly ex and that's the biggest one is like you didn't have the T to take a swing on yourself that's the the the other thing about the job is

[1:30:25] unearned validation makes you soft and at jobs you're basically earning you're getting validation for un for like not necessarily having skills that could make money in the market you know like in the free market so yeah man I think I think that's a that's a good message for entrepreneurs the other thing I was going to say before we leave do you want me to do you want to talk about blueprint like what it is just so because I think if someone's listening to this point they probably would be they want to they're going to want to follow yeah yeah give it the quick write down so my whole thing with blueprint

[1:30:56] was a like we said before if people who have succeeded five 10 years in the in the future they're not going to have a grip on the tactics in today's time that would work for a beginner because they did it 10 years ago so they probably don't even remember the tactics because there's so much time that's passed but even if they did remember those tactics are probably outdated so it was really important that I documented what I'm doing from the beginning because I when in four years when this shit's working big I want I don't want someone to watch me and say yeah but you're for look at

[1:31:31] look at everything you have like what do I do at the beginning what what you'll be able to do is scroll to the top of blueprint one and read my not only like what the Playbook the money I made the growth but like my actual thoughts like there have been blueprints that I've written where I'm like sad and struggling and like don't know what to do and like trying to reason through a problem in words and the reason people don't make documenta of content at the beginning is because it takes a lot of time like it's a it takes four or five hours to write one of those every single

[1:31:59] week and that doesn't show up on the stat sheet because those aren't the kind of thing that are going to get shared or go viral but it's like really important that I write that down in terms of like so basically I what it is is every single week I basically write like an investor letter to myself that I want to become like a Bible for creators and entrepreneurs who can you know you like invest in my story it's not all like what have I done it's kind of like lessons you can take out of it I'm curious like how you would you would frame it now that you've read a few but

[1:32:29] also like I'm being as transparent as possible with like the exact dollars I'm earning the exact growth what videos I made at what time and what I thought about them so I'm curious what what you think of it after diving in yeah you know what I think it was like for me the thing that I liked and you know let me let me zoom out first which is what you said is exactly correct the people that are at the top of the industry industry right um whether it's business athletes um I don't know any industry they're at the top they're the names that everyone recognizes when they do an

[1:33:01] interview they get millions of views here was the reason I got frustrated cuz I love listening to that sort of content I love studying the greats the reason I got frustrated was their advice is so high level it almost made me feel like they're like they're not sharing the secrets but I don't actually think it's that I think they're so far removed from the person that's just starting out and so they kind of tell you the stuff which what they tell you is true like Discipline matters being consistent matters working hard matters so they can tell you the high level stuff that got them to where they are they can't tell

[1:33:44] you the they can't give you the detail that will help you do it right now exactly and the reason they can't do that is because it's a different game someone that got successful in business 30 years ago cannot give you the blueprint on how to do it now because there's a bunch of different factors that are present now that weren't present then and you made a really good point I think in your blueprint which is like it's not about reading it and then copying exactly what you did but because it goes into such granular detail and it shares so much information you can start to see the way of thinking

[1:34:25] which is way more important it's not what you did it's like how you went about it and then you can take that framework that way of thinking start to implement that into how you're doing things and that's it that's the magic exactly that's why like to me advice almost all advice is not helpful at all because even if it's tactical it's given by someone in a different scenario or even if they're the exact same age and you know income level impossible exactly so to me like giving advice is dumb instead give me a window into what you're doing like let me watch you and if you're at the basically all I wanted

[1:35:07] when I started was I want someone two steps ahead of me like if if the game is a thousand steps I want someone two steps ahead of me with a window that I can just watch them and I will pull myself from what they're doing if they do that but I don't like it I won't it if they do that but I do like it I will take it nobody gives a window instead they're trying to sell courses with highle advice or even tactical advice that isn't relevant that's why courses don't really work that well like there are some but they don't really work so I

[1:35:34] was like all right if instead of making a instead of going and making a course which that's a whole another thing like I really don't want to have to go on the info products train yeah so like instead of going down that route let me just let me just take a take a a rag and clear the window so you can watch what I'm doing and I'll be as explicit and detailed as possible and those are points in time so like five years from now a beginner can go back and maybe the advice or maybe what I did isn't relevant anymore like there might be a

[1:36:03] new platform but at least for like this period there will always be something relevant for someone who's like two steps behind and that and I don't really see that I don't I don't see anybody else doing it that way yeah and you know what I loved I had exactly the same insight and that's why right now my team and I were working on like a documentary which is window I'm now and the thatp it um I watched The Genius documentary on Netflix it's like I think it's a three-part docu series on Kanye's life yeah and I'm watching it all the parts are interesting but it's the first two

[1:36:42] parts and the first part in particular yeah that is the most captivating it's way better than anything exactly and it was when he wasn't successful at all yeah like he had just moved to New York the got the braces in the Jaws kind of messed up like he's a nobody that is the most interesting content because it's relatable it's authentic uh it stands out because of those things once you're a somebody you can never be a nobody again so you you either have this chance to document or you know like if you're starting you have right now to document or you'll never be able to get that raw

[1:37:17] like I wish I was doing it on video I wish I did it from day one instead of day like 270 or whatever but like you know yeah you know what here's where I want to end which is if we went back in time we went in a time machine 12 months ago you would still be at deoy you wouldn't have posted any short form content we then fast forward to where we are now you have all of these views you're a full-time Creator uh you have these viral playbooks I want you to fast forward 12 months from now what reality are we looking at for Kane Callaway yeah I mean

[1:37:54] there's there's a lot of paths that can go like I try not to look too far in the future only because all I can control is like can I get a good rep in today can I get a good rep in tomorrow but if I had to manifest it forward so I'll have so the whole my whole step plan was find something I was authentically authentically interested in start making content on it find find that intersection that resonates earn money from that intersection take that money and start automating that content free up my time with the automation to launch more content eventually I'll have a whole engine so

[1:38:32] like 12 months from now is will probably be the shorts podcast I'll be making YouTube videos those three probably and a lot of that will be when I say automated just like my it won't all be me editing every second like I'm doing now and then I I think I'll be on the path to to having Clarity around like what my first product based business will be either physical or digital products so I don't want to I don't want to get too cart too far ahead of the horse but I'm just going to continue compounding this wheel I think another like lesson I guess is a lot of people have success in

[1:39:08] one channel and then they're like what else can I do and they take that effort and they allocate it back to something from scratch but they forget the Golden Goose like they they stop nurturing the Golden Goose and so what happens is their original thing plateaus their new thing doesn't work cuz it's really hard to get multiple things to work and they go back and they're like ah what do I do like I'm stagnant they're mad so I'm not going to let the Golden Goose get stagnant which in right now for me is short form video yeah so but who knows like new platforms could emerge you know

[1:39:40] I try to I try to be uh someone's who said this I'm really bad at attributing quotes I'm good at remembering them a bad attribute them like open to everything attached to nothing so that's kind of how I look at it is like I don't know what will happen all I'm trying to do is like sharpen the knife sharper sharper sharper every rep I take is like better better better better and we'll let the chips fall where they may yeah I love it man it's been a pleasure hell yeah thanks for having me of course man if you enjoyed this episode please subscribe to the channel we're having

[1:40:11] fire conversations every week on the podcast before we end the episode a quick word from our sponsor free agency what if I told you there is a good chance you're leaving money on the table in your career it would kind of annoy you a bit right well free agency aims to stop that they represent and manage talent in the tech industry here's how they do it first they provide you with a dedicated talent agent think about this as your career quarterback they understand you and your career goals based on that understanding they bring you suitable interviews at top firms you focus on smashing the interview and

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