# how to be a full-time trader in college with @latte | Ep 88

Channel: in the trenches by fomo
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ0iveml9-4
Duration: 1 hr 2 min
Language: English
Words: 11368
Transcript page: https://viewrankai.com/tools/youtube-transcript/ZZ0iveml9-4

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[0:00] What is up everybody? We are back once again for another episode of In the Trenches presented by FOMO. This is episode number 88. And we are here today with the founder of the CU Boulder Clan, Latte. What's up, Latte? How are you, bro? I'm good. How are we doing? Doing good, man. It's great to have you on. A little a little history on us. I was in the coffee shop a couple weeks ago. I'm sitting there getting my coffee and I got my FOMO water bottle and I get a tap on my shoulder and and this dude goes, "Hey, man. Is that a FOMO water bottle? And I'm like, yeah. [laughter]

[0:33] And it's [ __ ] latte. I've never, you know, we live in a small town. There's the It's pretty easy to run into people here, but I've never I've never No, nobody's ever mentioned FOMO to me. You're the first person. I mean, that was that was like an anomaly for me. I I was with my like my roommate. We both are FOMO on chainers and we're standing in the coffee shop line. I'm like I tap on him first. I'm like, dude, is that a FOMO bottle? I

[0:57] only saw the eyes. I only saw the logo. It's either FOMO, name, anything. Yeah. Yeah. And we're online. I'm like, I have to say something. Like, I there's no way I can't say anything. So, I had to say something really quick and here we are. Yeah. And I'm [ __ ] stoked you did, man. It was good getting to know you and I'm stoked to to kind of get to know you better here on the show. Um, so let's jump right into it. Be honest. How many hours a week are you spending on classes versus how many hours a week are you spending in the trenches? That is a

[1:27] great question. I mean, I'm on screen on the trenches. My the thing is it's more of a default. It's like an everyday lifestyle thing. I don't really think about it as screen time, but I'm probably on like five or six hours a day. Oh [ __ ] On just like just like I'm always I'm always trenching. I'm not new pairing,

[1:44] but I'm on FOMO. I'm dding stuff. Yeah. Yeah. School can't be more than an hour a day. It's not too difficult. Um, sixx the amount of time. Probably six times the amount of time. Yeah. So, you're doing sixx the amount of time playing around, watching charts, looking for tokens, dding than you are for your classes. Are you are you passing all of

[2:11] your classes? I'm passing. I'm passing. Well, long story short, I am doing I'm like an online student. I live in Boulder, but as a senior with not too much over my head left, I'm an economics major and everything is provided online. Got it. So, for me to be able to be home or be in the coffee shop doing work, you know, I met you while I was, you know, there

[2:36] doing homework. Yeah. So for me it's like if I can do screen time, if I could just switch my tab and be at school and then switch my tab and be on FOMO, then that's like what I would much rather do rather than be in class, not pay attention, be on on chain. It's it's a much easier it's much easier to handle if I'm if I'm

[2:56] online and doing onchain than in person. Talk to me talk talk me through your DD process. like you you pop into FOMO, what are you looking at first and and like what are the rabbit holes you're going down to kind of try and find the alpha DD process is different for everything. I think it's very rigorous, too. I think it's Frank is is an incredible DD. I was I was listening to the one of the recent

[3:24] interviews you had talking about Frank. But I think it's different for every token. I think for me now it comes down to things not really being vampable or unique. I think the things that are unique and more I love I love Clouse right now because it's on ETH. I think things that are differentiating themselves from these coins that could be bundled and and farmed right now are pretty much the only things to be trading. I think the DD process has changed also so much. It used to be this this is my third cycle and the last one was I was a new pairer fully thought that I could just trade 10k market cap

[4:08] [ __ ] and actually do well and it didn't work out for me too well. But that DD process was very quick. Every 5 to 10 minutes you're you're going to a Twitter. You're seeing who's following it. You're seeing if there's any good calls around it there. Like the information flow wasn't through FOMO. And now the DD process is much more I want to say it's simpler but it takes a while because I think now I'm waiting for things to prove themselves more than

[4:36] I used to. I used to buy things right away off rip. No info just like light info or if there was a high potential follower someone that or high potential dev it was a buy. Now it's like Elon could be tweeting a ticker multiple times a day. Everyone can be these billionaires can be signing things into law and it's a 30 million market cap topper on soul,

[4:58] right? And of course 30 million you can make a lot of money on a $30 million coin, but it's for what that should have been back in the day. Yeah. Right. I think things need longer to prove themselves nowadays. And it's Yeah. So, so you said your is your third cycle. How long have you been trading? When did you make your first trade? What

[5:18] was it? Yeah. So, I actually used some holiday credit as you could as I would call it. Like back in in 2020, I bought one ETH for $500 on Coinbase. Okay. Before everything exploded and that was a full major cycle for me. 2020, prior to 2021, I was holding ETH, LTC, I had a bit I had Bitcoin. There was nothing. It was just majors and everything was ripping. Like you got 20%

[5:48] day over day. Yep. And then that rolled in, you know, ADA was huge. I had a huge ADA bag. And then and then 2021 was NF like I wasn't in the first year of my crypto life. I wasn't every day on the charts. Wasn't on chain. It was just I'm in crypto. I'm holding majors and this is pretty cool. I must have been a freshman in high school or going into

[6:15] sophomore year of high school. And then 2021 NFTTS came around and I missed Apes, but I got like like I want to say August 2021 I full ported NF like just like ETH and getting into NFTTS and that started my onchain life and I never got offchain after 2021. I stayed through the bare markets and I've had like a whole bunch

[6:43] of interesting things happen since then. Sure. So, you started in 2020 with 500 bucks. You said 500 bucks. Yeah. There has been more deposited throughout the years, but the first it was a $500 buy of Ethereum. Nice. What would you say is like the dumbest trade that you made in your f in your like initial time? So easy. I NFTTS, right? Okay. So I I came into NFTTS probably with like one

[7:13] to two ETH, maybe one and a half ETH. The port was going up and down. It was not I didn't even have like a five figure port. I was just swinging these lower numbers. And I bought only force very low. That was one of the first ones that ripped really hard. Like that was a parabola crazy parabola. And I full round trip only force when I had no money to my name. And those went from like 0.2 ETH to I have to say like eight I want to say. And then and I was like I was such a young kid and dumbest trade I want to say not

[7:47] TPing that I mean after I made any money at this era of my life. It was all just being fully reinvested into whatever was the flavor of the day at the moment. I would I I think I would rather say I had a a dumb period than a dumb trade. I had a dumb long period until I switched my mindset. So,

[8:08] okay. So, yeah, let's talk about that. How long it sounds like maybe we're talking about the hobby turned into maybe like more of like a practice. H how long did it take or when did it go from being a hobby to something that you took more seriously? So, I always loved it. I always loved once I learned that it was more of a psychological game and discipline and you can get good and win. I always loved

[8:36] it. But it probably took three and a half years or four years for me to become quote unquote profitable. genuinely in a position where I feel like my discernment is good enough and my sizing is good enough where I'm consistently making money and paying for things with it rather than just like flexing upl

[9:04] until 2024 I was not I wasn't really making money. I I hit moonirds at the end of the NFT cycle. So, I had like 35 grand that was gone in three months because I traded NFTts to zero. I made money on ETH. Like ETH onchain season when Pepe first came out and all of the ETH coins are running all gone. Like I feel like in crypto until you get it, it's hard to get it through your brain that no one's coming to save you and you can't keep trading like whatever's the

[9:35] flavor of the day even if it looks good. That's the hardest switch to make for me. I think fading everything, fading 90% of things after you win, that was the hardest thing for me because I think becoming more selective after you hit or make money is very important because it's so easy to just, you know, if you make 10 grand or 20 grand in a day and then you and then you like it's the next day and you're like, "Oh, I'm I'm up I'm up so much." And like you just you just start spraying a little bit. I might hit. It's not that bad if I lose a few

[10:09] grand. You get tilted. And it's like until you realize that if you make you make a good trade and you actually have to keep the money or put it somewhere else, that's that was the switch for me. H interesting. Was there a trade or like a set of trades that ushered in that new

[10:24] mindset? Yeah, it wasn't a trade actually. It was in 20 it was it was last year fall. I debed Rivian. it. I I had done a little bit of profitable trading before that. I want to I had like low five figs in my name. I wasn't super confident, but I felt like I knew what I was doing.

[10:45] Mhm. I felt like cuz these cycles are so aggressive and the rotations happen so fast on chain that it's easy to feel like you know exactly what you're doing and you're trading so well and then the meta is completely different and you don't know how to DD anything and you don't know how to do anything. But in in fall of last year, I was doing decently well and then I was in a Uber ride home to my house and I showed my phone to my roommate and I'm like why? Like why isn't this a coin? It was the Rivian I don't know if

[11:19] if people remember Anom was posting it. This guy Ginta started the trend. He's like a Rivian stock maxi, but it was at the point in soul meme coins when everything was getting dev and things were going up if they were half decent and it was pure everything was pure memes. So I deved Rivian the ticker. There was already one on Salana, but I devs Colt Rivian with the cars cold picture and it was just a much better coin. The other one was just ranging at 50k and the Rivian coin it just it nothing happened. Like I'm it's not like I'm bundling these coins. I'm deving them

[11:52] hoping for the best. Like 3K market cap on Pum Fun. I'm buying one soul. Mhm. I come back to my computer after like an hour of deving it and it was still at zero. So I just sold it. I'm like, "All right, give me my soul back." And then at that point, I was deving probably like one thing a week. I was just like, it was fun. I was making coins. Some of them went to 30K. I had one go to 40k in the summer. And then my friend called, my roommate calls me when I was at the gym and he's like, "Hey, your coin's at

[12:20] 200k right now." I'm like, "Dude, that's awesome." Like, I didn't get too much. Thes were at 0.01% for devs, so I didn't get too much fees. I probably made like five soul, but I thought it was all I'm like, my coins at 200k. Like, that's sick. And then it kind of ranged into nothing for the next few days. And then Allan switched the dev fees from 0.01% to.1% for devs. And my coin was still pretty dead, but it applied to my coin because it had come out in the last few weeks. And it was still pretty dead, but I made like five soul in a in the

[13:00] same morning that he switched the fees. And I'm like, this is insane. Like I just made the same amount that I did my coin to 200k and this it's been five hours of my coin crabbing at 70k. I made five souls. So I start like bag working like I made multiple accounts for this. I made a main account for it. I'm like making I'm making special ones for Anom

[13:23] and and Chang and and all these people. I'm getting some good replies and then you know I start it starts going up a little bit. It starts crabbing up like it's like doing a little consolidation coming back. The old alltime high was like 200k. So I'm like all right maybe we can break alltime high. And the next day, or I want to say one or two days after that, I'm in class and I see Solo blasting it on my track. Solo XBT was blasting it and I'm like, it was at 700K. I'm like, wow, I must this is like the most money I've ever seen in my life. Like, this is

[13:56] I was freaked out. It was Yeah. Yeah. um you know I'm like in class and and I'm up like 15 20k from dev fees and and from there that that ended up doing really well for me. It did within the time that Allan switched the fees to 0.1 within that window it was like 40 million of volume. So I made like 40k on that and then that plus my my prior dry powder that was like incredible. It felt like a trade, but I wasn't in it. And it didn't matter if it went up or down. I was making money. It was it was the best thing ever for the time being. And after

[14:32] that, when I was working with a real amount of money, I'm like, "Okay, if I lock in here and and my selection is good enough, I can actually turn this into a genuine significant portion of money." And I started tra when I started taking everything seriously like that. I started trading really well. I hit. Yeah, that was the point for me when I when I dev that and I felt like I had a real stack to my name for the first time. I was like, okay, it's time to it's time to actually lock in. And then that December into the beginning of the year this year,

[15:07] I I did well, which I can get into. Yeah. So, like what does locking in look like for you? What what changed about your the way that you're positioning maybe in the sizing or just what changed? Yeah, for me it just came like not not [ __ ] around anymore and not being like I used to have this this subconscious belief that if I lost my money somehow it would come back to me and that's like just like you know if I lost my money somehow I'm I'm going to make it you quickly realize that's not true when you lose multiple like mid five figure runs and

[15:45] and at that time I'm like this is the first time where I feel like I'm good enough and good enough meaning my discernment like my selection of coins I knew what was going to go up and then for me it came down to sizing because I was bad with sizing so I started writing a lot of notes my whole my whole 2024 cycle has like pages of notes from losing trades and just like reflections and that's like that's almost my favorite part about onchain and trading like I'm learning about myself too a thought and I'm learning about my discipline, my actual emotional, my ability to control my emotions. So, I

[16:26] started writing a lot of notes and then I started actually sizing correctly for the first time in my life. And I think size was the biggest difference maker for me because I could lose. I figured out my trading style was like only trading what applies to your edge is huge. I I believe there's a lot like every edge comes in so many different

[16:47] forms on chain. Mhm. And for me it came down to selection. Like my edge in my opinion is my discernment and just ability to be emotionless and kind of hold through these dips. I'll get into the AI bag, I'm sure, but like learning that I I came to the realization that if I wasn't sizing correctly, I don't believe I didn't believe in myself long term. I think that was [clears throat] like the biggest thing for me because I'm like if I'm not sizing correctly, what does that mean? It's like I'm sizing too much and that means I don't believe I can hit multiples with consistency over multiple multiple

[17:25] trades. I'm trying to make it I'm trying to make another 40 grand in one trade just because I want to have this amount of money. But like that's just not how the game works, right? And I think if you believe that you can hit multiples consistently and you're good enough, then you'll size correctly. And if I think you don't believe that you can do that deep down, then you your size goes all over the place. And by correct sizing, I mean it just it's obviously different person to person. For me, that ended up being like 2% of whatever my liquid net worth was at the time. So

[17:58] that was like it felt bad sometimes, you know, if I had if I had, you know, 20K in my name and I felt like a 400 a $400 position was not big enough for how I feel. It feels wrong. But if you believe in yourself, then it's the right thing to be doing. And if you are actually good enough, then that 2% size will become a few thousand. And then it becomes more fun to play and you can you're still sizing correctly, but you can actually feel like you're you're playing a bigger game. But playing the

[18:29] smaller games is is not is not easy. It's not. But it's where you have to start. Like you have to take shots on goal. I say it over and over and over again. You got to take shots on goal and you got to survive those shots. So you do have to start small. What does discernment look like for you? Like what does a token need to have for you to be like, "Oh, [ __ ] yeah, that is something that I

[18:52] would put some money into." Totally changes depending on the coin. There's like they come in opposite forms. I think for me AI was the recent biggest example. You know, last cycle I would have said by last cycle I mean soul 2024 onchain. Um, last cycle I would have said some huge attention discrepancy, you know, like a

[19:18] like a early mudang or a or a chill guy. Chill guy was my chill guy was my my screaming from the rooftops 2024 play because it was the first time ever that it was a character, relatable character, viral IP, viral meme, super good, super relatable. And then I'm scrolling through Tik Tok comment sections and normies are like buy chill guy and I'm like most of the it was at like 18 million and I'm like most of the time this would be the worst thing ever but I've never seen it so this is the best thing ever and like you know a micro cap on chain that's already viral with the normies

[19:55] and it's this most relatable like that was like I'm telling everyone to buy this coin that I ended up doing well on but I it didn't really change anything for me because I didn't have the size to execute on That's what I would have said. Nowadays, I think it looks something more like AI. I don't think it can be a pure meme because I think it's too solved and the early game extractors of the new pairs scented cupsy. I think

[20:20] everything's just too supply control. There's I don't think a pure meme is going to break a billion again. Interesting. I take pure meme. Pure meme. Nothing backing it. I think maybe Anom, but at the same time, I don't think of Anom as a pure meme. It's not a viral animal on on Twitter. It's it's a it's the one of the

[20:39] most influential guys in the industry. Yeah. Now, I think it needs something real or I think people are going to need an excuse to invest in it. I don't think it in I don't think institutions are looking at the next whiff but I think if there's a mimetic expression of like the RWA you know if you can if you can say you know this I'm buying this not only because it's ticker AI and it's a and it's a dog and it goes really well with the last two years of the stock market that we haven't been able to have any exposure to. You can also say Long is an

[21:17] incredible launchpad on the best new chain that's come out in the last few years who has the best most competent founder and it has multiple flywheels behind it and the the treasury is growing and like there's just there's there's more excuses you can make for it than there for something like whiff or or mudang. I think you I think now we're going to need something like that like pawns as a launchpad. So obviously all these launch pads are going. I think that's like a sign of the times where it's you need re I think you need revenue or or something backing it these days so that people

[21:55] have an excuse to buy at higher market caps because I know I'm not buying any more pure animal memes at 500 mil but I might have last cycle and I like to take my own perspective kind of as the you know obviously I'm deep on chain but if I'm not going to do something I think I have somewhat of a crowd perspective I'm not going to buy card. I'm not going to buy a coin at 500 mil that's mudang and I don't think most people are these days out there. I don't think the upside is there, but I think you can make

[22:24] excuses for these other other coins. Yeah. I mean, the new primitives are very important. All the big guys that I talked to over the past year have said the same thing like go towards the novelty, right? Go towards a novelty. Uh and this is definitely that. Stock pairs is definitely the novel the latest novel tech that and like the hooks which you mentioned earlier. Um what? Yeah. All right. I want to talk a bit about like being in college, being a trader, just what this whole life is like for

[22:56] you. Um [snorts] do you think first of all, do you think that you'll go try to go full-time trading once you're out of school? I would like to. I here's here's the thing about me personally because I've been cursed or blessed by crypto. However you want to however you want to think about the the loss and perception of money. I definitely don't want to go corporate and sit at a desk because it would be really hard for me to sit there and be not trading or

[23:37] using all my time doing something else. It's not the job, but I think there's something very meaningful in in I think there's substance in working on something with a team that you love and you think is going to work and has PMF or you think is bigger than yourself. So, I would love to work at I I would never say no to working at some form of smaller company or or you know any form of cryptoesque tradinges company that I feel like is not about

[24:11] the paycheck. That's that's where my interest lies. But yeah, if I don't find that right after school, I'm definitely going to stay on chain for I don't know a year or until I stumble upon something that gives me the the excitement that trading gives me. Yeah, for sure. I think one of the best things you could do is like get a job in the space so that you could stay tapped in. It kind of helps it helps with the trading and it gives you the paycheck, too. How are you thinking about like you you run the CU Boulder Clan. What's the what's the process like with you and the

[24:45] and your clan members? Like are you guys discussing tokens all day? Do you have a group chat? Are you just like in the fret house talking in person? Like talk to me about how you guys are doing DD together? Yeah. So, there is there is a chat. There's an on it's just called onchain. There's a there's a few platforms that there's chats on just anything that

[25:05] we're talking across dayto day. Mhm. But there's 12 in the clan right now. I believe three are like kind of waiting to join or I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna chat with them. I like to like know who's who's in it. Even if they're not like hi poor, you know, I want people to be familiar.

[25:22] Yeah, sure. I think I'm really excited. We talk a lot. It's really helping with the getting kids to be interested with me and just like getting shouts from, you know, I'm I'm finding kids that are brand new. Shout out this kid Saurin that I just started trading on chain and is killing it. Cool. And he's like lower. He's obviously

[25:47] lower poor. We're all college students. But I'm getting alpha from these kids and I'm getting like, you know, even if it's not always actionable. It's like I'm getting info and alpha and we're and we're sharing things and it's it's like being another group chat. Everyone in crypto is in group chats. Like I'm in I had I had my own Discord that I that I was just like talking all the time and it's almost a lot of it has changed to talking with the boys. I've had some I got some alumni in there as well who are just like oh sick always I have some alumni who are

[26:16] working in crypto who are just always also tapped in on chain so they're chatting with students I think it's big I think it's a big thing I think clans in college are a big thing have a lot of potential what is the what what's the kid's name that you just onboarded Saurin Saurin what what is he like what's is what's his DD like? What is he bringing to you that's kind of like, oh [ __ ] I didn't even I didn't even see that. I didn't notice that. Like what's his view

[26:49] on the markets? Well, very open and curious, which I think is it helps what like besides getting info or a track noty or like, hey, check this out from someone like a kid like Saurin is awesome. I'm getting things like that. So, I'm getting, you know, I'm getting info gen like general DD, this guy just follow this guy or or whatever info you would need on chain. I'm having to do a lot of deep explaining which we actually talked about when we were sitting down at the coffee shop. Getting to like the deepest wise of the wise of why things

[27:30] are going up. that is helping me a lot because refreshing yourself on when you know teaching people helps you a lot and I have been on chain corewise are very specific and weird and co cryptocultural and like why something's going up could be a million different reasons. Yeah. So me having to try and explain and navigate around why something might be good even though it might seem like some of these things won't matter at all. You know, someone followed P markup followed this account or he gave a grant to this what you know whatever it may be that's very specific. Frank bought some wallet bought all these reasons why

[28:17] since there's such slow lick on chain it's like these coins are moving 100% because of some of this or it's a catalyst. It's having to teach that is is helping me a lot because I'm getting I'm like refreshing my whole my whole intuition system almost and I think that's helping me a lot just

[28:37] teaching. What is the best catalyst for a token these days? Because some of those things you named are not great catalysts anymore. Oh yeah. I was just going to say that. I was, you know, before I answer the question, I was just going to say, you know, sometimes something happens in a and and a corn will pump and fully retrace and then you have to explain that and then it's like, right, like why did that just fully go back down? I would have bought that. Um,

[29:02] right. The best catalyst absolutely depends on the coin. There's way less than there used to be. Yeah. I mean, Coinbase listed pawns yesterday. Not that that matters, but it it went it didn't move. Like Coinbase lifted blue chip at 18 mil and it didn't move. That's crazy. I had I had been holding Blue Chip and I could pitch it like two days before and then it got listed. I'm like, "Oh my gosh." I look at my phone, it didn't move. And I'm like I'm like, "Okay, I guess it doesn't matter." I think biasly I think a Robin Hood listing has way more weight than anything else these

[29:34] days for specific ecoins. Um, I think new, it has to be new things that people haven't seen yet because all of these catalysts are so played out played out at this point. The follows, the Elon, like the fact that SI with all of that, you know, I'm not I never held SI. I'm a I'm an AI believer. I didn't love when I was getting van or they were

[30:02] trying to van me. I still are. Yeah. But I you know it's not my favorite coin in the world but still the fact that it's not running higher is like wow these form of catalysts that have been sending things for the last five years are not working. Yeah. [sighs] I think it takes something new. I think it would take I think some form of grant from someone new like I think if I I keep thinking in terms of Robin Hood

[30:25] chain because that's where my brain is. Yeah. Yeah. Um I think some form of grant from Vlad or the team would be huge. I think a listing for specific coins would be huge, but also just like needs a needs a new I think coins need a new form of catalyst that's almost like like if Vlad posted about say long like if if if Vlad posted a thread about long and engine of creation. I think that would do really well for the whole eco, the long eco, but that would be somewhat sustainable because then you're like I think it it comes down to if the catalysts are

[31:06] stacked after the if there's more after the main catalyst or if there's nothing else because a lot of these cataly catalyst these days a listing or a follow like nothing else happens after that and then the best is behind you. But I think if you're thinking about something like Robin Hood that's new, I think sentiment would flip like this. If he posted a thread about a protocol or a listing plus a thread, people be like, "Okay, now this has juice left." Like these coins have juice left, right? Because he's still he's still thinking about it. He's like pro

[31:38] right now. He hasn't said anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's something there I I was going to say the counter to this idea or not the counter to this idea but maybe just to like tack on here something like SI the big the the biggest world leaders everybody in the world are talking about this like that's the catalyst that's it how did you get bigger than that what's next exactly so it's silver the past there's nothing better than that so it's like something that will provide uh a hope of of future juice to the coins after the catalyst, which is one of the hardest things to do. We're really winding down

[32:18] in terms of catalyst things. The So, what does that say about the future of Onchain? I don't even I would I think it's just getting more efficient. I I don't think it says I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. I think it might even be good because these I think it's a good thing actually. I'm going to take that stance because I think it legitimizes on chain. I don't think that I think things that make money and are legitimate protocols and are doing well akin to actually trading majors. I don't want onchain to be like majors, but obviously it's going to stay more

[32:54] inefficient, but I think catalyst being more legitimized is not a bad thing. I don't think an a P mark follow or a I keep using P mark a follow but I don't think a you know an Elon mention or something should send something 500% and keep and keeps running. I think it's more profitable for anyone who's actually putting real work into researching onchain to have these types of catalysts that need

[33:22] legitimacy to send something up. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Um, what do your friends think about trading? About you trading all day? Everyone trades in my house. My house is like So, it depends. It depends because I have kind of two sets of friends. So, I kind of have my house, which is my roommates, my really close friends that some I one of my best friends from home, and then I met other kids around the dorm and kind of created a group of kids that we really enjoy those kids and and are and actually have

[33:56] a form of desire to do really well. That's who I live with. So, everyone is always scrolling on chain on FOMO deck screener and just always talking. A lot of the a lot of the ideas and conversations come up in my house. But then I have, you know, I I never lived in the fraternity house, but I I am in a fraternity and I have a group of fraternity friends, which is much larger, but I'm a little bit less close with them, if that makes sense. It's I don't live with them, but 30 plus kids who I'm pretty close with. And anytime I'm scrolling on FOMO or I'm on a

[34:32] position, it's always either a crazy reaction and it's like because it I don't like to have I don't have all my money on FOMO obviously. I have a a specific amount that I'm willing to trade publicly with. So I either get a Wow, dude. Like that's a big position. Is that your biggest position? That's super cool. Tell me more. Or I get the you should sell everything. What do you

[34:56] What is this like Mars like Marscoin? Like are you see like do you really have are you really up $10,000 on Marscoin? Get out before it goes to you know might go to zero tomorrow. Get out. So like you get the you get the type of kid that's curious or the other half that is super

[35:15] doesn't want anything to do with it. This is an unserious industry. You know what do you say to the unserious per or to the person who says that that it's unserious that doesn't want anything to do with it? Do you even bother trying to convince them show piano like I don't like you know it does a lot of I find that the kids who are interested or at least curious are the overall genuinely more open-minded and successful kids. You know no hate to anyone who does who's not interested in markets. You don't have to be interested in markets. But I think a lot of these kids are you know

[35:50] these kids are are finance majors and they're They're business majors and they're learning about markets in class, not paying attention. And then when something actually fun shows up in their face, it's like, you know, this is the fun, this is the best market ever. This is the most fun market ever. Don't you want to trade, you know, Marscoin and and what, you know, I'm not going to say like some vulgar coin, but there's a bunch of crazy coins that's just like these coins are fun, right? So I think it I think it comes down to the type of kid and I to the kids to the kids who don't want to play

[36:24] like they don't have to but there's I think it's the best thing ever. So I'm always trying to tell people at least pay attention a little bit. What about your parents? Do they know where how far you've come? Yeah. Um so I don't it's a you know my mom's definitely going to watch this video. It's not like, you know, so it's not like I I try not to hide anything. I My my parents know if I do well

[36:53] or if I'm not doing well. Yeah. Yeah. Um that also reflects a lot I think in how much of my life I'm paying for. I tend to like I I lived in I lived in in Spain for four months last semester because I was abroad. And besides my rent and and besides my rent, I paid for for everything. So my mom was like, "You must be doing pretty well, you know, if if you know, I lived in Spain for three and a half months just like kind of on my own besides my my rent. I was traveling everywhere. So you

[37:26] they get a sense of it. Mhm. But there's numbers. Me and my me and my my parents have rules on numbers on where I have to tell them if I if I if you hit a number what's the number I want to say like I want to say a few hundredk I'm not going to like if I you know if I if I make half a million I don't tell my mom I'm wrong I'm just a bad person [laughter] so my mom she's not going to take it and run. I have amazing family. So it's like I think if I if I get to mid if I get to mid6 then

[38:01] I'll then I'll I'll tell everyone or not everyone but I'll tell family. until then it's like it's really dangerous because onchain especially you can make 100 grand in 3 months and you can lose you know like I've been swinging so hard and I and and it's like I think I'm making the right decisions in the time still even now I'm in a I'm in a significant draw down although I'm still like I'm still in a great position compared to say May because I came back

[38:33] from Europe with almost almost nothing. Mhm. But so I'm in an incredible position compared to May. But you know, compared to five week four or five weeks ago, you might say, you know, I reposted a Watch King post yesterday that was like stuff I'm doing on chain right now would make my mom cry. And I was like, yeah, probably. you know, like this is this is a lot of money, but I think at my age where I'm I'm I'm in school. I'm still able to pay for my life with my with my trading, it's worth it to take these types of risks where it's like I could be put in a certain

[39:08] position where I'm 21 or 22 to compound and and be financially free by, you know, before I'm 30 or or, you know, I've always had huge ambitions for myself. I do compare myself to some of these FOMO guys like Orangey and and well is just overall beast but like guys like Rowdy and Frank and all these all these top traders I want to I want to hold myself to the highest standard. So yeah, I'm not I think without a I think with amidst draw downs making the right decisions over a long period of time will compound into success. So yeah, for sure. I mean you are many many

[39:48] steps ahead I think of most people your age just from this perspective but I understand it is very difficult to not try to not benchmark yourself to your high watermark P&L versus like like you said where you were where you were whatever six months ago nine months ago a year ago it's it's much easier to look at what you've lost than it is to look at what you've gained I think re only comparing realized P&L is the key because unreal like you know I was looking at some crazy numbers in the last month or two and and it's just like even in the back of my mind I was

[40:24] this is this is UPNL this is cool to see on my screen right now but it's not real and I could TP but it's not the right decision so I'm not going to do it and it's probably this is probably massive UPNL that I'm going to look back on in a month and maybe regret it a little bit but over over 30 to 50 times of compounding this form of decision-m in the next five years I think does better for me than tping at a level where I feel like I'm up too much so I have to TP you

[40:54] know. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean no matter what happens with this position or whatever like the things you're going to learn along the way are absolutely [ __ ] priceless. Yeah. With that in mind I'm curious what has trading taught you that no class at CU or any school could ever teach you? That's a great question. I think, like I said before, I think the emotional discipline aspect has been huge for my life, not just trading. And

[41:26] school would have never taught me that. And I think that comes down to being honest with yourself on why you're making certain decisions. Like that's and and that that's your whole life, I think. And it's like because when you start taking notes, I think notes are the most important thing for anyone who's learning how to trade. Just

[41:50] like journaling. Journaling. Yeah. And I don't even And I' I have physical journals that I used to use, but I just have a notion document that's untitled that I just whenever I have a thought, I just type and spew onto it. And all of last cycle I was doing notes after I was trading because I was on tilt for so much of it and I wasn't

[42:12] doing well. So I was looking for any avenue to get better. And that ended up making just journaling by itself made my whole life way better because I lose a trade like we were talking about sizing earlier. It's like I lose a trade and then I question why I did what I did. And there's can be a

[42:35] thousand reasons why I did what I did. And there's multiple parts of it. Maybe you size wrong. Maybe you didn't wait for a good entry or you full round tripped. Whatever it may be, it it always is for a reason. And I think sometimes you can make what you might think is the right decision and roundtrip or lose. But I think 90% of the time you could have done something better. 95% of the time you could have done something better. And it comes down to trusting yourself and also being like believing that you know what you're doing. I made a I made a note like on

[43:15] the background of my desktop is like a written note that I kind of stuck onto my desktop wallpaper so it's always there. Mhm. And for me it was like when you're on till it's something like when you're on till remember that you know what you're doing because I think it's so easy when you draw you can draw down 5% of port in a day or 10% which is like sucks you like you can like you can lose a lot quickly and you can forget. I can get on tilt. I I I like I've gotten on till and I've and I've thrown things away like amounts of money that a week

[43:53] later I'm like what the hell? And and I learn like that's the like that's the key right there. I think that's the sweet spot. Like when you get on till then you then you know then you start writing notes and you're like all the info is there. Like that's the good that's what I love. Like I'm I just lost and now I'm on Till and I'm revenge trading. All the info I need is right here in my brain. I just

[44:15] have to write it out. Do you have like um like a standard process for what to write about? I know this sounds maybe a little crazy, but I have a sense that like just knowing how to start is like an impediment probably for a lot of people. Like, okay, yeah, I'm supposed to write about, but like what am I supposed to write? What do you

[44:33] write? What do you say? I think it's it's wise. It's all wise. It's like it's reason. It's reasoning. So, it's like why did I take the trade? Why did I size the amount I sized? and why did I click the buttons when I clicked the buttons? It's like you can make unlimited money if you click the right buttons on your computer at the right time. You just have to condition yourself to do that and be really hard on yourself every time you click a button because I'm a believer that you should be clicking sell way

[45:06] more than you should be clicking buy. And you should be clicking buy very very occasionally. I at this point in the market I wouldn't have said that a year or two ago and now for me I feel like you should you should barely be buying anything and you should be sell selling and the wise behind that are just because like if you're going to write in a journal I think you write why did I buy this when like when and why did I buy this how much did I size relative to how much money I have I think that's also the most important thing for sizing

[45:41] is like, you know, if you have if you have $200 to your name, you should probably, you know, it's hard to it's hard to choose how much $20 is 10% of your port. So, you need like right if you have a $1,000 pore, I think sizing like I think you size 50 bucks on the higher end. At least for me, it's like it's so it's so hard to do that. But how much am I sizing? Why am I sizing? Why am I buying? It's just wise. And then like you start you're thinking like, okay, maybe I don't know why I size that much. maybe I don't know why I bought or

[46:11] or why I bought at this level and then like you just like slowly you start hammering down on your brain. It's like callousing your brain and then you become immune to buying [ __ ] at high valuations because you're like, "Okay, that's just super negative EV." Although maybe a month or two ago, you might have been buying it because like, oh, my 2x from here really quick. You know, I I like to buy things that are already

[46:35] established. At this point through my process, my notes process has gotten me to fade 99% of things. Buy things that are already established and like mid I was watching the Theo video earlier. I think he said he likes to buy sub 2 mil, but I would even say for me, everyone trades differently, sub 8 mil. Um, things are already established. I hit I hit on I hit Anom, Cash Cat, Stonk Broker, AI because it was but I bought them all above 5 million and I think they had so much more upside. So for me the whole thing has come down to selection already established unvampable and has

[47:19] way more upside. You know, it sounds like the journaling process started for you on the back end of a trade. You get out of a trade and then you write about it and and determine all of the wise. Why did I do this? Why did I buy it? Why did I sell it? Whatever. But what it almost sounds like is would be better to do is to do it on the front end. Like before you take the trade, write all the wise. And if the wise resonate and if the wise are valid, then you take the trade. And

[47:53] if they aren't, then you don't. Yeah, I think that's totally valid, too. I think it's I think I'm just viewing it as like a conditioning the before my like like reflecting after kind of just tunes your intuition for before the future trades. And you you definitely could be right. It's definitely great to write down all the wise of everything pri maybe before and after, but it really for me it comes down to like if I did something wrong, I need to like switch a little knob in my brain so that my into it like I I'm not like I I don't write essays on why I buy things

[48:34] before just because for me it's like either it's a short period of time in which I feel like I have to buy something. So like Anom I felt Anom Cash Cat I actually had days but I didn't feel like it. Anom Cash Cat AI I felt like I didn't have that much time maybe two weeks max to buy it which doesn't feel like that much to me. I've been holding some of these coins for like nine or 10 weeks now, which is crazy to me,

[49:01] right? But I think the way I trade and my reasoning comes down to like I see a coin and all of these factors that we've been talking about kind of like come together in my brain into like a score almost like uh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. like uh like I'm scoring these coins and if I it's almost like a 90 and above I can size X amount of portfolio and I'm not actually thinking about it in terms of numbers in my head and scores but it's like the intuition takes the the holders and the dro and the narrative and and whoever's talking about it and whatever and it's

[49:33] like it all comes together in your brain which I think makes your intuition and it's like you see all these things but subconsciously you're scoring them and sometimes you see one coin that has like really good scores across every part of the coin. And that's when the intuition kicks in and your balls are tingling and you're like, "Okay, this needs some size because the ceiling on this is higher than everything else, whether it's new

[49:58] or different chain." Have you thought about using AI for any of this analysis? Yeah, I've actually thrown many times I've I've exported or I don't I don't know if you can export your trades on FOMO. Maybe you can, but I [clears throat] I just go through and I screenshot all of them cuz it doesn't take that long. I just screenshot all the trades. Everything closed on FOMO and I throw it into Claude and I ask for a win rate. I ask for I don't I don't even necessarily ask for anything. I ask for like a couple stats and then I say like just can you

[50:30] analyze my past three weeks or whatever. And at first I'm like, "Okay, this is probably not going to give me anything great or actionable. You know, it's Claude. It's it's not a it's not a discretionary trader." But I got great insight from Claude. And I didn't think that I would. And it came down to the exact stats. I mean, everyone who takes trading seriously in Tradfi absolutely has stats in their trades and back tests everything on chain and crypto runs a little bit different, I think. Um, but I was I was interning for a pretty respected guy in Trafy and everything came down to data and this

[51:13] trade your next trade being better than your last and everything, you know, pinpoint quality on everything. And I think a lot of onchain guys are more vibes based, but Claude gave me that piece that I almost felt like I was missing this summer. I started doing that and it gave me a win rate and it told me where I was slipping and where my P&L was leaking, like almost leaking from. And I operate at like a 20 to 30% win rate, but my my winners just outperformed so hard that the math works out. That's my trading style. And I got really good because I'll hit like 20 to 30% but I'm I'm

[51:55] trying to make like a four or fivex minimum on the on the winner. Yep. And Claude had told me that I was leaking P&L from letting losers run only a little bit too long on in kind of intrain trades or whatever you call that in between my big winners, whatever I was cutting. I was cutting a little bit too slow. Not like not like way too much. not like way too slow like I was losing too much that much but I actually made that change and started cutting quicker on things I had a little bit less conviction in and my and my P&L did better this summer and I was like that's

[52:28] a first interesting interesting cool I'm glad to hear that um do you think it's better to start trading as a young person with a small amount of money or to wait until you're a little bit older and having more money? I think no doubt everyone should get their head in markets as soon as they can. Maybe that's just my perspective because I love it. But the ability to compound or multiply or just even do a little bit more percentages on your wage is like I could not I actually had this thought like two weeks ago. I'm like man like if I w because a lot of times I think about

[53:11] this this AI bag that I have. I have a tenth of percent of AI for anyone watching, which is like pretty significant for me. It's not nothing. Um, it's not nothing. It's not nothing right now. It was very significant at the top, but um the ability to turn your your wage or your hourly into even 20% on top of that compounded is so so big for the average person that they

[53:36] don't understand. And what I was getting on before which I lost my train of thought on was like I was thinking even if I roundtrip this bag and you you know I I I very well may round trip this bag and I'll be fine. It's not like it's you know it's not everything. I'm I'm being risk managed but somewhat. Although if I I was thinking if I didn't have this ability, I would feel so I would feel stuck. Like it almost makes me feel the ability to have opinions on the market at all makes me feel so much freer than the average person who doesn't know anything about markets. It

[54:14] could it could even be not crypto. It could be just equities. And I would feel still just like it almost brings me like it like calms my nervous system down to know that if I go have to get a job, I can try again. And I have almost unlimited chances over the next 60

[54:32] years, you know, markets are markets. They're going to give you chances even if they have bare markets to compound and hit and do well and play the game. And it's like, you know, even if of course you can lose your money, too. Most people will, not if you're day trading, but if you're investing or just learning, like I don't think anyone should wait another day to start learning about markets, whether it's onchain or or equities. Just just do it because it it free I feel like it frees

[55:02] you almost. Yeah. So, a new pledge comes to you with says they have 500 bucks, they want to get into trading. How do you direct them? Yeah. How do you direct them? I say keep your 500 bucks and don't deposit it. Although you should be although you should be playing. I think well I say I say keep most of your 500 bucks. Like you know if this is if this is your 500 bucks then you should probably not have it all in an account where you can fullport it if you want to right away. So, if you want to start a a you know a cold wallet or if

[55:37] you want to put a wallet on your computer that's different than your phone walking around wallet, put 400 in there and throw 100 in your FOMO. I would say you need weeks. That's the thing. Crypto specific like you need you need weeks minimum because the reasons the wise like we were talking about before things go up and down are so niche. like it's so specific and there's so many different reasons for things going up

[56:05] and down. I think you have to watch for weeks. I think you have to realistically I would everyone who comes to me and says I want to start I sit them down and I say okay if you want to start you actually have to do it and it's not something you can half ask because like you might as well use your 500 bucks at a nice dinner you know this weekend like you might as well you might as well do something else because it takes time but it's the most worth it thing ever and I I I would tell them to sit down for for two weeks spend

[56:36] an hour a day follow top traders on FOMO But don't copy them because copy trading just doesn't work. Especially if you're, you know, copying Frank and he's dumping on your head. I'm kidding. I love Frank. No, I'm kidding. Frank's actually, you know, shout out Frank. He take he takes Frank. I was gonna Yeah, he doesn't deserve it. I was actually going to say if you asked me for one of my favorites, I was going to say Frank today. But besides the point, I would say you need it's it comes down to screen time. I think you need a lot of screen time. I think you need to be doing your best

[57:08] form of due diligence that you're capable of at the time. Learning who's you have to learn who's popular. You have to learn who has a voice and the voice that matters because there's a lot of trolls who can make a lot of noise, especially on CT. And new newcomers might think that they're serious because they have a lot of followers. I'm not going to shout anyone out, but I'm just saying like there's a lot of people who get famous off trolling and and it's and are not serious. And then you get the guys who are actually really good. Shout out the Raven the the Rasmer and Evans

[57:37] beef this week. You know, like Evans is a Evans is a legend all time and then you get like Rasmer who's like Rasmer's awesome like Rasmer's sick but and I think he's hilarious but I'm personally going to take Evans opinion on the market a little bit more seriously than I'm going to take Razers. Although he's up a few million. He's It's not like you he has no opinion on chain. He's really good. But you have to you just have to know who to take more seriously. So I I think time is like the biggest component of if you're gonna have 500 bucks and you're going to start

[58:12] start shooting after a week 10 20 bucks and like you need you need you need 10,000 clips if you're brand new. I'm not going to lie. Like you need you need reps and hours if you're brand new to this game because you're not playing the new pairs game either. You're not going to win. I realized I wasn't going to win and that's when I started winning when I stopped trading new pairs and I started really trying [snorts] to get better at the selection

[58:39] of the midcaps. That's what I would say. I would say get off Axium, you know, use FOMO, use trending, use most held. Like things go up most held I think is underrated for new people because I use most held a lot because I I hold a couple positions of just high cap. So I go over there a lot, but then every time something runs to to 15 or 20 million on FOMO for the day and it has a lot of volume, it it shoots up on most held because a lot of people on FOMO are

[59:09] holding it. And I think you can find those those asymmetric opportunities a little bit or just like the stuff that's established but still pretty low on most held if it shoots up on the day. Things like that. That's you need you need reps in time. It's not an easy thing. Yeah. Okay. Um, some quick hits for you

[59:30] and then we'll close this thing out. Man, this has been a really fun conversation. Absolutely. Better trader. You at 18 or you now? Now. Most overrated thing in the trenches. Scented. Scented. Most underrated trader on FOMO. Underrated. Mhm. Theo Theo Deweiler Theo I've been following Theo for years. Theo used to follow my old account before I got banned, but Okay. Theo Deweiler. Shout out episode

[1:00:07] number 85 86. I just I just really enjoyed that one. Okay. Um, degree or trading income in five years? Which one serves you best? Trading income. Yeah. Okay. One coin that you'll hold through graduation next July grad. Next May. Hype. Hype. Finish this sentence. Most co most most college kids win at trading because

[1:00:40] it's a tough one. They take their time cuz they have time to take. Yeah. Um latte. What a pleasure, dude. This has been so much fun. I'm so glad that you tapped me on the shoulder the other day and introduced yourself. Um, and uh, I thank you for coming on the show. I look forward to talking to you some more here probably in the near term. Um, and I'd love to get you on the show again like six months, a year from now and like catch up and see where

[1:01:08] you're at. Follow up. I'm gonna No doubt I'm going to be up too much in six months or a year. So sick. Let's [ __ ] go. This is awesome. I didn't This does not feel like an hour. It feels like our our coffee conversation. I feel like I could onchain spew for infinite. So, I mean, I think that is the mark or that's the sign that you're in the right place, man. That's the sign that you're doing the right things cuz you're best in the world

[1:01:30] when you're passionate about something. Yeah. It doesn't feel like work. It doesn't feel like doing anything. It just feels like living, breathing. I've never worked besides homework. So, let's [ __ ] go. That's it. That's the title. That's the title of this episode. Um, yeah. Latte man, thank you so much for coming on. We will be

[1:01:47] back. Thank you guys for tuning in. We'll be back tomorrow with Jax um at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time. Until then, we'll see you guys soon. Take care. [music]

[1:02:05] [music]

[1:02:11] [music]

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