# Learn how to win on the internet in 28 min  [tiktok shop, trends, building cult brands]

Channel: Greg Isenberg
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua32iGPwisU
Duration: 29 min
Language: English
Words: 6721
Transcript page: https://viewrankai.com/tools/youtube-transcript/Ua32iGPwisU

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[0:00] I interviewed Orin Meets World this guy has worked with everyone from Red Bull to sarro you name it but that's not why he's interesting he's interesting because he has nailed Tik Tok and he has nailed how to create content that spreads to millions of people Tik Tok shop I didn't know much about it he taught me and he's going to teach you enjoy this episode the start it's sipping time baby [Music] all right new character unlocked Orin the internet's creative director welcome man I'm excited to be here let's uh let's rip some ideas you know okay I want to run this is a startup ideas podcast so I'm G to run an idea by you

[0:47] anyone could take it you can take it for for all I care um and I want to Workshop it and and just get into your brain to see how you would take this idea and turn it into a cult brand with me let's roll so here's the idea I have a iPhone case it's kind of actually kind of falling apart it's just black it's not that interesting I will say I used to just have no iPhone case and I would crack it and crack it and crack it so I've I've given up you know for the people in the comment section who are gonna be like oh

[1:22] you know I can't believe he has an iPhone case can't believe he's one of those people like I've given up on it you know it's so you feel me on that yeah I was going to say I was going to hold up uh I was going to take my phone out of its case because I adopted the case purely because it's been absolutely destroyed in the same way I just gotta stop I gotta stop doing it and so I'm in the same exact boat brother dude once you hit like I don't know late 20s early 30s you're just like I can't do it anymore yeah as soon as kids are

[1:49] involved man phone's breaking no matter what exactly so uh the idea is how can you make the case a little a little more fun and like a lot of us you know I'm into Collectibles and I was thinking oh wouldn't it be cool if you can have a case and in the back of the case there'd be like a chariz a a holographic Charizard so it's basically marrying a collectible with uh with the case and you're able to make a premium on it because obviously let's say you're buying okay Charizard is probably a bad example because there's some Charizards that go for like $30,000 but there are like I don't know

[2:29] maybe it's a Squirtle or something like that um which you can put in buy it for $20 it cost you $5 to make the case and you sell it for $75 what do you think definitely intrigued I do it is funny you mentioned up I have I have an influencer iPhone case I know for for lack of better term I have a uh this is this is from maximize I don't if you've seen his uh his his videos say weapon of mass distraction I'm a Believer in the van of the iPhone case um and uh I'm also the the the place where I where I I I work is uh we we do

[3:00] websites and that includes the road the road website who did that the viral um the case that has lipstick holder so look I would immediately take that and be looking at all right you have the IP angle is a great angle but I think the utility angle is still the best angle to take for uh for anything that's going on the internet right because people are more likely to save and share something with utility than they think is cool because we are so inundated with cool stuff and that is just my my general um take of like where we are right now on the psychist and so I'd be looking at

[3:26] okay what can we take within the Charizard world that like makes this useful right can we slap is it can we make like the back case big enough to put a uh a full pack of cards in or whatever that is you can like you can hold your deck or whatever that would be that would tie into what that experience looks like or what else are like the youth really really into that could make for like a funny potentially viral viral case to tell the Brand Story one um just because I'm I have a bunch of uh cologne's really popular right now and so I've been sent to all this influencer

[3:55] cologne that I'm never going to wear and I have like 20 of them in front of me but that's a thing right kids right now young men especially are building like their perfume bar it's like a thing that's happening online so i' be like all right cool how can I like if they want to carry that with them throughout the day like what's the iPhone case allows me to hold four of those that has the royalty with you know whatever uh you know colog somaler they're following on the internet so yeah I would basically be attaching utility to that that has virality and storytelling I think any of

[4:20] those could then have you have a hundred videos that Spawn from that you can repeat those videos whenever like some new exclusivity drops and then you're on your way to uh to establishing your cult so my initial reaction to that is well if you're building a luxury product which this is do you need to have utility that was my initial reaction and then you started talking about the cologn which by the way I had no idea that cologne is like a you know popular right now the The Ether are in a shocking place right now but we'll get there exactly we can unpack that later in the video so uh what you're kind of

[4:53] saying is you know utility doesn't need to be like your standard utility around uh just covering covering the phone but it could mean like how do you how do you put utility and marry that to what's happening in the cultural Z guys is that what you're saying exactly that's exactly what I'm saying because I think your luxury point is actually an interesting one and I spend a lot of my background is in like conversations around luxury and higher end and items that sell for a premium price point and so like the concept of luxury I think is really important for people with ideas to to understand is there's basically

[5:20] like luxury is inherently rooted in craft right people buy their Hermes saddle or whatever it is because of the quality level with which has been sustained over a period of time and then the the desire that comes from people you know wanting to attain the ability to acquire that quality level so luxury is inherently rooted than craft and since in iPhone case I don't know how much craft you can apply to that we've already seen the carbon fiber cases and rare python leather or whatever doesn't really change my experience but then one level down from that we have what I call designer products right where the design

[5:46] differentiates it you can charge a premium because the design is so cool or so interesting and a good example of that is I don't if you've seen those metal cases that are like two pieces but it's like a little metal like almost like liquid metal looking thing that goes on top and the bottom they advertise on on Instagram a lot that's a designer case right right you're charging a premium for someone's really unique design you could say the same thing about like say this more hype beasty concept where it's like oh you get your Charizard or it's a you know it's a Travis Scott case or whatever it

[6:08] is could fall in that category but really where luxury is at its Pinnacle is that combination of of utility and craft right where you're able to say like a a perfume experience depending on what o you have Etc can can be a a luxury experience and if you marry that with you know uh all the utility that comes from it like the craft and the story of it you're kind of reaching reaching that P so I think that's what we be we' be trying to do here and now I'm leaning into the idea of the colog case right like let's get it so it could have four or six of those testers let's

[6:37] launch it with like an exclusive with you know uh with with YSL or whoever is going to give us the four tester set that fits right within it we're going to go we're going to go uh Mr because you're going to get four to six sent to you on on a quarterly basis and you can sign up based on your scent profile and then you can share the scent profiles with with your friends via the via the app obviously uh which has its other like inherently so you know social value and then you can get your your pheromone ratio you know through the wearable all right we're going too far shh don't tell

[7:05] anyone but I've got 30 plus startup ideas that could make you millions and I'm giving them away for free these aren't just random guesses they're validated Concepts from entrepreneurs who built hundred million plus businesses I've compiled them into one simple database compiled from hundreds of conversations I've had on my podcast but the main thing is most of these ideas don't need a single investor some cost nothing to start I'm pretty much handing you a cheat sheet the idea bank is your startup shortcut just click below to get access your next cash flowing business is waiting for you well you know what's cool about this idea is when you think

[7:59] of of okay what's that brand it's a men's clone I almost bought it and then I looked at the price and it was like $250 for a clone there's one I think it starts with a C do you know what I'm talking about I'm not sure what's the cre or you know I have only gotten back into cologne because I have uh it was it came up so often in this I did this uh like I do these like reports for like larger like retail groups and stuff like that where it's like oh like what's trending and so I end up doing like these focus groups with Gen Z all the time and and

[8:28] the perfume thing came up and then I started to say I always used to say no to the influencer seating on perfume and now I take them all because yeah it's a it's a whole thing so I but I'm not like super Savvy as to what brands are popping right now I I got it I got it I was close I I called it cre but it was really Creed um and I just like the first link that came up is it it's a 12 Creed $1,260 for I don't know like it's like the the laam mer of uh of cologne let's go yeah exactly so listen if you're

[8:59] going to I don't care how wealthy you are if you're taking one Spritz of that Creed you're hoping that someone's like wait is that a is that a ODU you know aventus you know that's you're but that's the problem with cologne is there's no easy way to share the status of your cologne yeah well the uh and it's interesting because you do want to let's go back to marketing from utility so A A friend of mine has a Tik Tok shop that smashing it where he sells cologne and he sells a cologne called her loss named after the Drake uh and it is a pheromone cologne because he's

[9:40] playing on it's 130 bucks or or 95 bucks or whatever that is uh I guess we're down to 80 on Amazon and he they're playing into that idea that you know there is a chemical attraction element to what cologne can do for you and that is a a perfect scenario for the Tik Tok shop but I think it's you because people aren't going to notice what that wi is and no one's recognize the Creed scent uh I think you know if you really want to make something in that Niche and you don't have the infinite marketing budget apparently Creed has then uh you have to go back to good old fashioned chemical

[10:09] utility whether it works or not how how do you look at a Tik Tok shop and see how much revenue they are doing uh yeah so basically you can click into this this core store so basically you'll see the hard part about this is that all these people have like 50 accounts now but if you go to the core one that has the store on it and click over into shop the individual items will have at how many units sold on there behind them and so your buddy you know I don't know if you can say but like what ballpark is he doing in Revenue he he's pretty uh uh

[10:38] his his handle he's pretty open about it like but they're doing a couple 100K a month just in the cologne like he's he's on Instagram talking all about that you know full full full Guru life so yeah so I think they're they're doing really well on that well but I think look the the alpha there for the ideas podcast is that like there's a young demographic online that are discovering these experiences for the first time cologne right and there's a ton of influencer videos on Colones if you see these these guys have these like cologne collections so there's all these influencers have like 50 and then they'll pull the bottle

[11:02] out like really close in front of the camera like a macro shop some ornate like a good example John vvad bottles are great examples I'm like or Nate crazy bottle and they'll take the whiff and they'll be like talking about it or whatever and there's all these you know when we were exposed to Cologne whenever we were growing up like I don't know it's like whatever my dad had or like some stuff I saw on a magazine ad right and this is they're getting exposed to it through these insane people on it on on Tik Tok and then they're going hey I want to start my own Journey what does

[11:24] that look like but guess what if you watch a video on cologne on Instagram you're going to get shown more videos about cologne on Instagram so if you and then if it's a Tik Tok Shop video where someone's actually purchasing product recurring from it Instagram is waiting that super heavily in the cologne algorithm so basically as soon as you start down that rabbit hole you're getting hit with her loss right or with with my boy's product and and who's hijacking that consumer Journey who's saying yeah instead of finding out the other way a native Tik Tok shop brand is taking advantage of that opportunity inside culture and that is a really

[11:51] interesting concept to me and who else is is because I'm fascinated and I think a lot of people are fascinated with Tik Tok shop so like how do you build a business on Tik Tok shop and who's doing it well like what what uh goalie at all or no tell tell tell me about it all right so so Tik Tok shop is a scale game this is the thing that breaks most cmo's brains right now is everyone back to our com about one Tik Tok account whatever they started off the account with is that is Tik Tok is a game of Affiliates right uh so basically

[12:20] other people that create content for for your brand to then and they link your product and they get a percentage of that sale most of them are also on retainer so for instance I ran Tik Tok shop at at this brand I I was at um I was a CMO previously we had a toy brand we had five or six creators that were on monthly retainer 1,500 to 2500 bucks this is very typical bigger Brands will build this up to 50 creators 100 creators they are thirsting for creators to be able to do this because it's it's a lucrative system for that, 1500 2500 bucks a month they make let's say 15 to

[12:48] 20 videos you know sometimes more that are about that and there's software doing it too not related to shop separate combo and if those videos go well people buy a product from them on Tik Tok shop that Creator gets a percentage that goes in their bank account that's why you see all these kids now there's a lot of kids aged 20 to 25 who are in these discords like the collective and stuff like that or I think they just changed their name it's called your first dollar where they are making 10 15 grand a month 25 Grand a month off these commissions flaunting that on the internet because of course

[13:13] that's what we do now but like actually making good money uh and like that is a really interesting opportunity because they're doing it off of like affiliate sales but the thing is there's no limit to the scale of that currently because Tik Tok is so wide and we all look at creators differently right um I I when I was first making content I was at like 100k I noticed someone was jacking my content someone was copying my videos word for word and they had like 40,000 followers I was like oh man but they I went looked at the account they look different to me different race General

[13:40] different overall Vibe completely different follower base almost no overlap to my follower base and that's like the important concept to understand is that everyone's Tik Tok algorithm is different they want to see different people they have different interests they have different niece and then the Tam of that is like ludicrously wide so if you look at a Tik Tok shop brand you go if I'm goalie like a gummy brand okay every single person in the on the earth is my Tam for this right and I also sell this on Amazon so I'm gonna have young creators of every uh gender race overall Vibe content type I'm gonna have

[14:10] middle-aged creators older creators I want to cover as many as I can as long as I can make the math work from an affiliate perspective that they get 20% of the sale I get the other money off Tik Tok shop I have a certain Splash over into Amazon and now Tik Tok and Amazon are becoming one for that fulfillment like that is the size of the opportunity and you'll see why why I bring up goalie from the start is their incentive package for Affiliates going into Q4 is insane what I mean by incentive package it's basically if you generate enough gmv like the market value of sales there it's like Rolex

[14:37] Lamborghini a condo in Miami night at Amiri like that's the level which we're talking about like for these kids and that's the promoted program they have and that's how far these big Tik Tok shop brands are from where these like Legacy Brands who can't move on there are as like and the Arbitrage is crazy dude I actually I actually love you I I I I we have to unpack all of that because I feel like there's to you that's completely uh of course this is happening you know in my world though I'm like in the software world so I don't like think about these things you

[15:10] mentioned something at Discord I think you called it uh yeah it's called your first dollar used to be called the collective but that's like where all the kids go and get trained and then Brands go and like recruit in there explain explain exactly what it is yeah so if I'm so like if I was if I was 19 right now I worked at Chick-fil-A when I was 19 and I worked at abomi I got fir from Abie I worked at chickfila long story that sucked right so if but say say I'm online I'm like these kids are making money on Tik Tok shop how do I do it so

[15:33] there's a Discord Channel where they teach kids how to make videos basically like how to use capcut Tik Tok editor what's a good hook what's a good whatever and so kids will go on they'll pay I think it's like 15 bucks a week or something like light to go say all right cool do I want to do this but I want to learn how to make videos and then Brands will post opportunities like hey this Brands want 20 videos for Tik Tok shop so I recruited off of that when I worked at this toy company I was like cool I need a Creator in the UK because

[15:54] Regional is big in Tik Tok too I need a Creator in Germany I need a Creator who does Spanish we recruited off there pay these kids x amount for the videos they get x amount of the Tik Tok shop Revenue they've already been trained you can see some of the content they're doing or they're brand new and you're giving them a shot for a lesser rate and then Brands will come in there kind of with deals and recruiting at the same size so they kind of have a two-tiered system but like that's what kids want to do that they have to go figure out how to do

[16:14] that somewhere so either you take a course but a course is like the wrong framework for anything now right it's like course and Community much rather you'd have the Discord where people like me are hopping in there like give me a couple youth to go make videos about whatever I have a budget and so all that kind of happens in one place and that's one of like 10 discords where this is happening insane insane that that exists because you know I did a tweet the other day about you know if you were going to create the YC of today in a world where software is commoditized it's all about distribution

[16:43] what is the YC for creators look like and if I feel like it's kind of this right yeah well also I look at I mean honest so my last before I hopped on this podcast I was giving a talk to YC about content for software and so um so a quick note on that is the same things in software right so if you look at um airbuds you look at I think the other one like is is Humane um Humane is like the mental health one there's Jenny there's GG dating uh GG D is a good one there's trip BFF this software that said hey content Market fit is as important

[17:13] as product Market fit but they're using 50 creators like I think airbuds definitely has has 50 you know GG has four or five accounts maybe two or three creators even like like ladder has like 30 trainers on their fitness app that are creators so they're applying the same Theory they just don't have the unit economics that Tik Tok shop does Tik Tok shop is great because there's a get-rich dynamic that is that is material that you can literally calculate out the way you calculate like meta ads Rass and and like be in the mix of that's amazing software you have to like look at it's much more it's a

[17:38] little more intangible but that that's literally happening but also you look at like to your point about the Creator YC like I run this program called cut 30 we have 100 150 people in it every every time we do it it's like every six weeks to teach people how to be content creators and the hit rate is crazy like the group chat of the people we have a group chat of people that like really pop off going from there and it's like 16 18 people who've become like hundreds of thousands of followers right and like we're not the only one there's other people that are doing that

[18:01] but like all this is happening in these closet communities the only people that know about that I don't like go run a million ads about that or talk about it every day it's just people that like have gone down funnel enough to even get promoted to same thing with the collective they're not splashing that on the front page like a bunch of us aren't tweeting about it but it happens in the background and that's where I feel like entrepreneurs and CMOS get left out is because if you can't find a way to be visible into the world that's happening around you and into the trends that are

[18:23] around you you're literally just getting left behind just to finish up on the Tik Tok thing what else to people need to know about building on Tik Tok starting a business on Tik Tok uh it's an operational nightmare um the hardest part about that is dealing with Tik Tok and your inventory being in there and not so like I mentioned I was at a toy brand uh with this beforehand we we were getting we got shut down on Tik Tok shop so much that we basically stopped um we had a product that was on the edge of compliance there's a reason for that but basically there's just so many Logistics

[18:53] around shipping and customer service and compliance and violations and Strikes that's like all automated by Tik Tok that you have to be you need to have a uniquely insane and process-driven operational person who is dedicated to that to work through the scale but if you are is likely worth that on the other end especially if you are have a good Amazon business because the crossover is huge and if you're walking into a retail conversation something I like to call out is I worked with this water brand called chlorofil water where he was really early on Tik Tok the founder seated out a ton of product on

[19:21] Tik Tok when he launched we had this whole SEO strategy we put together but he had there was something like a billion views on the chlorop water hashtag when he lost launched and he walked that right into retail and was like look at the demand for my product and it is but this is not a product that is consumed online people don't buy cases of water or single water it's a prod that's consumed in retail and like guess how those retail conversations went right of course they want to take advantage of what that that of that Arbitrage right of we want to be the person that has that availability that's

[19:46] still the conversation like we talk about Tik Tok shop there's the crossover to Amazon and the crossover to Natural retail because of how much Discovery entertainment happens on that platform today damn dude like that that I I do feel it and maybe other people listening the whole like supply chain just feels like a black box like I don't even know where to start on terms of like making a product yeah in terms of making a product so I would go to like if you know kind of if you have a general idea but uh you want to go into the belly of the Beast and I would go to Canton Fair

[20:17] it's twice a year it's in China I know that sounds like something that would be a wild thing to do but it is they literally like it's like the mecca for where things are created um and that includes everything food you know like you know jewelry Electronics like whatever it is food may say slightly less but let's say if you wanted to get into the supplements game there's that there's a network of other more specific like you want to do gummies you want to do stuff made in the US whatever there's there's a bunch of like trade shows related to that but like Canton fair is where everything in

[20:41] the world is made like all the factories that make everything in the world go to to display their Wares and the Western world is kind of come and adopted and there's enough understanding that you have to deal with people that speak English when you're there and that's where people go to find their factories experience supply chain for the first time obviously if you don't want to go all the way over to China if you do go there you're going to get the best rates you're going to actually see people's operations you're going to see all the available options if you don't do that like I don't know the reason there's a

[21:02] reason that Alibaba Founders are so rich right like between Alibaba and Petra you basically have access to factories of any kind to make anything you want basically anywhere in the world like or you can hunt them down individually I I just feel like to me like the product creation part is fully Antiquated right now it's actually so easy to use Alibaba or go talk now through WeChat or with translation or the amount of Chinese people that speak English or to anywhere in the world to make something that really comes down to more of like distribution of ideas being more important than the creation of them what

[21:28] sort of software tools do you use to come up with ideas figure out supply chain competitive analysis like what's your uh content creation what is what are the things that people probably need to look into um there there's there's a whole there's a whole bunch of them um but I would say like yeah so like e-commerce like particles interesting on e-commerce because you Bally look at any Brands like Shopify data over time um and store data over time and so that's a good one to be like how much should people do promotions what colors do they sell the most of how much do they really sell of x x units or Y then there's the

[22:04] more traditional um ones like Amazon ones like like aium 10 and things like that there is a really specific one for Tik Tok shop that my brain is uh is short circuiting on right right now but I'll find that one before the end of it but like I manage my entire life in notion in these like databases where basically every project has like the supply chain is all is all tracked in there notion is great because it's also functional in in China um um so people can update their statuses and stuff and all like that but basically every project is tracked in terms of like where things are in production and

[22:34] Target dates content Rob app is populated by where product road map ends on like on a separate uh a separate dock um but it is interesting the creative workflow is the one that's most interesting to talk about because we have CRM we have Erp but creative teams like there's so many briefs and so much content being created Now by these teams and there's really no good way to track it everyone's using like these Ultra complex like notion slack Combos and there's not like a dedicated creative plat for that and it's moving so fast that by the time anyone creates it it's probably going to be iterated away but

[23:02] anyway software opportunity for people all right so yes this is the Tik to app the name eludes me at the moment just my brain is short circuiting but basically it shows you creators and how much market value they're doing so how much sales they're actually making and then that's the and then basically also you can go explore products and categories in a similar way which allows you to then format formulate a strategy to go DM creators do Outreach and like that's the gate that everyone has right is finding more people actually getting them to want to do something with your product and like getting that relationship and following up is

[23:30] definitely the hardest part of that right now quick ad break let me tell you about a business I invested in it's called boring marketing.com so a few years ago I met this group of people that were some of the best SEO experts in the world they were behind getting some of the biggest companies found on Google and the secret sauce is they've got a set of technology and AI that could help you outrank your competition so for my own business businesses I wanted that I didn't want to have to rely on Mark Zuckerberg I didn't want to depend on ads to drive customers to my businesses I wanted to rank high in

[24:07] Google that's why I like SEO and that's why I use boring marketing.com and that's why I invested in it they're so confident in their approach that they offer a 30-day Sprint with 100% money back guarantee who does that nowadays so check it out highly recommend boring marketing.com and so we've talked a lot about Tik Tok but YouTube do you do any sort of competitive analysis on YouTube or you just don't really touch it no I mean I still don't think as a platform I'm excited about the features they're putting in for products like I've tagged a bunch of my own products inside my YouTube channel things like that haven't

[24:39] seen like big sales lift or anything I do not think of that as a platform for Brands besides very mainstream cpg Brands like that like that compai Foods um like like candy brand is a perfect brand for for YouTube YouTube shorts but I think um YouTube when I talk about the algorithms like Tik Tok is extremely good at giving you very specific things it can Zone in on like like when I was in China it was showing me content of other Americans like in China like like the level of which that they they are good at being able to do is is actually shocking even though it's like on a VPN

[25:10] and but then with YouTube It's So mainstream if the content that succeeds has to be like painfully mainstream on shorts at least so if you are a niche product you have less of a chance of reaching your audience there but you have a product with wide appeal and you have a viral format you have a lot of opportunity for success but I still don't think of that as a YouTube YouTube as a primary sales driver for most businesses wow that's a hot take dude I appreciate that yeah that's a really hot take I mean like first of all the interesting thing is you don't even you

[25:38] don't even mention long form yeah well long form is a brand builder for Brands to be able to put out there and obviously there's influencers that put a bunch of that like inside their their content to build it but when you look at a like a tactical useful strategy with Arbitrage that you can then compare to you can come at from a numbers perspective the way you come at advertising I look at short form like and especially what's happening on Tik Tok like way more specifically quantifiable actionable scalable organically than than YouTube is is more of a like a slower more marauding more brand focused game not that that's a bad

[26:09] thing for for Brands but I think uh the opportunity with Organic virality on short form is is generational and before we before we leave I have to ask you because you're the goat at this besides format if you're trying to create a Tik Tok audience you're trying to create cont content that's to land with people how do you do it uh so this is a good one there's a couple things uh like so core macro level you there's three types of content right content that drives value and not just like I have three tips like value that someone wants to bookmark or share like my content works so well because I

[26:45] get shared in slack channels of companies small and large every day thousands of times because I I make content specifically for that I want my content to get I want some I want your director to drop it in the slack Channel and be like why aren't we doing this or I want a a creative person to be like sending it to their creative team I want to do this so value that is savable and sharable either either does that or it entertains it replaces Netflix in the TV experience or it fails those are your three options for for content right and what happens is so many people fall in

[27:11] that third bucket because they go say I'm going to talk about my brand story or I'm gonna talk about what my product does that's cool and no one cares and even if you're an established brand why a lot of their content isn't good is that they don't care but if you take that same lens I'm G to talk about that and I'm going to provide savable sharable value or I'm going to entertain in such a way that people are consuming it in in replacement of entertainment that's where you can succeed on short form so if you're an expert you're trying to build your following or do the

[27:34] kind of thing I've done on there I'd be laser focused on telling stories about things because people don't care just about facts they care about facts in context of stories that are that are also playbooks that enable people to act if you are an expert in any field from Fitness to to to branding to e-commerce um to you know whatever your cardiologist like that is the format for which you to succeed beautiful I appreciate it my man where could people get to know the internet internet's creative director more yeah I'm at or meworld o Ren meworld uh on Instagram Tik Tok YouTube uh YouTube is my

[28:09] favorite personal platform at the moment may not drive the vand value so you can come check out the long the long form on there I have a newsletter called hyper um that is in my link bios on all there where we talk specifically about brand strategy and creative direction that is a is a worthwhile read so appreciate you having me anytime my man come back soon baby [Music]

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