# Meet The Marketing Genius Who Hacked The LinkedIn Algorithm to Get Unlimited Leads

Channel: Rob Hoffman
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyhQFhXUbqE
Duration: 29 min
Language: English
Words: 6106
Transcript page: https://viewrankai.com/tools/youtube-transcript/QyhQFhXUbqE

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[0:00] All right, so we are with Finn. Finn is the founder of Origami, which is an all-in-one growth tool for startups and small agencies. How do you think about creating content that accomplishes both things, going viral, but then also being the type of post that converts really well? I think for content that converts, there has to be like a massive outweighing of the value that you're giving, the novel value you're giving to the reader compared to just generally viral content. Well, so as everybody knows, outbound is just getting harder every single year and I'll be the first to tell you basically even running an outbound platform myself. And so

[0:36] absolutely the best way to do outbound is just All right. So we are with Finn. Finn is the founder of Origami, which is an all-in-one growth tool for startups and small agencies. Finn, what is the audience going to learn if they stick around to the end of this episode? Yeah, I'm basically going to show the process that I and most other vir creators use to consistently go viral on X and LinkedIn in a way that actually converts

[1:03] customers and traffic for your product. Generate hundreds of thousands of impressions every single week in a consistent scalable way that actually works. And it's a little bit behind the scenes. Like I'm literally just going to show the process that I use um that anybody can do. And the goal obviously is to get as many people seeing your content to turn into customers every single time. Yeah, I see you going viral all the time. Where does this rank in terms of how you get customers for origami? Is it the number one way that

[1:30] you're getting customers? Pop three. There's basically only two ways that we get customers through things we do ourselves, like outside of basically word of mouth and the product. And number one is our own outbound. So cold email, cold LinkedIn, warm email, warm LinkedIn. And then the second is content. Between those two, which we both basically dog food our own product, Origami, to do both of for our company, we don't do anything. So, everything comes down to executing really well on content. You know, getting thousands or tens of thousands of people to sign up in like a week if you have a really good content week for basically no cost is

[2:04] just something that I don't think is going to exist forever to be honest because of the proliferation of highquality content and more people engaging these tricks. So, in my opinion, it's kind of the gold rush and the golden age for content if you know how to do it before. There's just like so much that I think that the scene is really going to start evolving in the next couple years with AI content just getting so much stronger. Before we jump in, how do you think about the way that outbound and inbound play off each other? Is there a symbiotic relationship between those? Well, so as everybody

[2:36] knows, outbound is just getting harder every single year, and I'll be the first to tell you, basically, even running an outbound platform myself. And so, absolutely, the best way to do outbound, the best uh the best defense is a good offense. And so, you should be putting yourself out there and getting in front of prospects, through your content, through your marketing, through your

[2:54] ads, and then basically retargeting. That's like outbound on easy mode. If you're messaging people who have already know who you are, who already see you, already respect you, who have already engaged and gotten value and taken something away from your content, that's just going to convert 10 or 20 times better than somebody completely cold. And so all of our own outbound and funneling is basically done through warm. So the process at a high level is basically create as big a top of funnel as you can through people coming to your website, through people liking your content or engaging. Capture all of them, segment them, and then outbound

[3:24] them. That's basically our entire growth engine. I love it. All right, let's do it. Let's show people behind the scenes how you use origami to get custom for yourself and hopefully they can use the same strategy. Of course. Yeah. So, I'll just share my screen real quick and we'll do a viral content speedrun right here. Um, how I would create viral content for myself with basically nothing. So, I'm going to

[3:46] just create a free account right here. Start free. Continue. and then I'll show you guys basically these are these two things are definitely critical like outreach and lead lists but I'm just going to skip into content mode. Content mode isn't even one of our main focuses yet although it's going to be in the next couple days. So I'm just going to start off with giving it my um website and we're just going to go completely around the whole lead list building workflow and we're just going to skip straight into content mode. Um so content mode is right here. I'll just go right up over here to content. Yeah, I

[4:19] think by the way it's interesting what you said because more people are catching on to this. The best example I heard or the most obvious example is if you are running ads as Alex Heroszi your CAC is going to be so efficient because by the time that your ad is served to somebody they already know who you are. And so like outbound basically what you're saying is the outbound industry is just getting crushed right now because everybody's using these AI tools to do outreach and to try to do personalization at scale. And so in order for cold outbound to work, in order for ads to work, you also have to

[4:52] do inbound. And by doing inbound, all your other channels become more efficient and become quite frankly viable. Yeah, exactly. So basically, this is how you do viral content creation. I'm just going to throw in my handle for X and my domain. And I'll use X as an example for basically how you can go viral on any platform. This is going to take a couple minutes, but there's basically two different things that you need to do in order to consistently go viral. one and the most important part is basically you need to study existing viral content which we're going to get into. And in order to do that, you need to basically

[5:25] understand like what different angles and topics you should be writing about. So I'm just going to answer some of these questions here. Um, of course, we want posts aimed at Origami's buyers. And for us, we want something that's at least 500 likes as like our floor and we'll go last 12 months. So basically what I'm doing right now is I'm selecting the type of content that I want to learn from and train my agent to make similar content for. So I just told it I want to find content that I wish that I had posted myself to bring in B2B SAS buyers specifically for lead genen

[5:56] and I just set the engagement floor. Um so I only want to learn from posts that got at least 500 likes and that were posted in the last 12 months. And so basically what it's going to do right now first it's going to mine my existing posts and build like a voice document for like how I write you know it'll have like paragraphs and paragraphs upon like how I typically write my posts. It'll be like short sentences um bad punctuation grammar you know whatever once it figures out like my voice and the type of content that I post about my own content. So you can see it's studying

[6:26] and you can already see some of the things that it's like coming up with. It's mining my own viral content right now to basically study like what works for me, like what has consistently been working. And you don't have to have any viral posts for this to work. It'll just look comparative to your other content. Right now, it's basically identifying outliers. So, what did I do that worked disproportionately well? You can see this one got 24 times higher than my average engagement. This one got 22 times higher. So, you kind of get the idea. It's basically learning right now like what do I post that works really

[6:56] well? What does my voice look like? And you can see it's actually writing a document to our knowledge base. It's creating a customer profile for us and it's actually reading from our own voice document to help us draft posts. Is there a specific outlier ratio that you look for or like multiplier where it's like, okay, anything above that is like 10x better than my average post I should repurpose in some kind of way or lean into or how do you think about finding

[7:22] outliers and leaning into them? Yeah, so it it really depends. There's basically two different axes to an outlier. One is just a minimum engagement floor. Like if some dude is posting and gets one like every time it gets like 25 likes. Like technically that's an outlier, but you just don't care cuz it just didn't hit hard enough in the algorithm. So I always want to set set some minimum engagement floor of like I only want to study from a post that gets at least 500 likes on X. After you set that engagement floor, then you definitely want to be looking for at least something that's like a 3 to 5x

[7:51] outlier, but preferably the bigger the better. So, if Alex Ramos is posting getting 2,000 likes, but all of his posts get like a thousand likes, that might not be the best thing to learn from. But obviously, like if someone else with a smaller account makes like a 100x post and it's in your space, that's like a perfect thing to learn from. And in fact, most of my viral posts have come from something like that. You see someone who has like a 200x outlier and you're like, "All right, this topic won because of this person's idea, I'm going to put in some of my own thoughts to it

[8:20] and I'm actually going to improve it." So, I'll actually show an example of like what this looks like in action because obviously here you can see my own outliers. You can see my own engagement, but I'm going to show like how I would actually do this. Let's actually see if um the voice document is written. Okay. So, you can see here. So,

[8:36] basically, it's got my voice document. So, I'll let it draft for me. You can see it's got like my formats, all this stuff. Um and this will learn over time. Basically, as I keep drafting and giving it feedback, it'll keep adding things in. So, at this point, I don't even really draft anything. higher level ideas and then it comes in and does all this drafting. And again, I'm doing all this on a free plan. It's it's really not that expensive. And if you want, you

[8:57] can do this in a claude project, too. Um, but let me share like my actual account. And I'll I'll show like a real example of like, you know, how I would turn one of these into a post that actually like works in action. So, here's like an example post that I made the other week. And you can see this one got like, you know, 2,000 likes, pretty good impressions. And then obviously

[9:18] I've got the origami plug right here. Um, so that's perfect. I actually made another post at similar engagement about a week ago that also throws origami in. So this right here will bring us probably at least like a thousand signups honestly. And we're doing this multiple times per week. And again, it's just following this process. So okay. So let me then go and I'll share the

[9:38] workshop process that I use to get here. Really quick, how do you think about organically embedding your product into a post versus having a more hard sell obvious CTA? Do you lean any particular way where you're like you have to make it a very subtle cell or are you like nah like you just got to have like as many CTAs as possible? It depends on the strength of the post itself because any plug is inherently probably going to damage your reach a little bit compared

[10:08] to if you just didn't plug it at all. So, if I think a post is really likely to be a strong outlier, I'll make the CTA like more visible cuz I think it'll damage the reach less, right? Like I think it's giving enough value to the point where people will still be bookmarking and engaging on it. If I think it's something a little bit borderline, I might not even put a CTA in the post at all. I'll just make the top reply basically a CTA. So that way I don't hurt the the reach of a post that I already believe is borderline. So basically all comes down to the value

[10:35] provided in the post. So this is the the inspiration post that I drew from there. Um, it's actually really similar and [music] I basically put in some of the context I knew around I mean this is kind of an AI slot post. So I made it a little bit more human and actually provided some like useful insights on

[10:50] how I would actually do this process. And then of course this post like did really well. I mean it got 4,000 likes for kind of a random account and so it was just like perfect to go off. So that's basically exactly the type of post you want to study and then remix. And then obviously with this I'm basically finding those inspiration posts, remixing them just with the existing voice stock that I had um and then posting them two or three times a

[11:14] day automatically. Do you do any editing of the post or do you just rip the AI version that that you get? Um no, I I will definitely do some editing on the posts. So the AI version is basically like that will get you like 80 to 90% of the way there. But unless you have some skill with like content on making like a really good hook, really good like basically dopamine ladders in the context where people are keep getting pulled in and rehooked throughout the read. It's going to be difficult for the content to do like exceptionally well. You can still clear like a minimum floor threshold I would

[11:49] say of virality just from the AI itself, but you'll definitely need to have some sort of skill of the content that you can put on top of it. And again, I don't I think this is a temporary thing. I think eventually the AI generated content is going to get good enough to the point where it can naturally go viral if you have a good system. But for now, I think it's it's just difficult without basically implementing your own skill. So, I'll I'll basically go in and clean it up. And you know, I might correct something that the AI made up

[12:14] that I know isn't actually true. I mean, I almost think that just finding the outliers is the highest is like the most important part here because in my experience, people hate AI written content. Like people have a really strong detector for what is AI written and what is not. And I do think that like copywriting as a skill, ironically, has never been so valuable for that reason. And there was a good tweet I read the other day about like soon enough being able to write without AI is all you're going to need to get a

[12:47] six-figure job anywhere is by Callaway. And I was like I actually think that there is truth to that. But finding the outlier to me is that is the sauce because really what you're doing it's no different than how you learn to write in general which is you just copy or it's the same way that you learn to play an instrument is like you uh take a song you you learn the song and then through learning that song you learn how to play the instrument. And it's the the same thing with with writing where it's like these are viral outliers. I'm going to create my own version of this using the

[13:22] exact same structure and that's the important part and that's how you learn what is good good copywriting. So that's what I see working is like the outlier identification is the most important part and you but you have to inject your own thoughts and ideas and and copyrightiting into it. Totally uh 100%. like that that is 99% of the battle is just finding good posts basically to study because the native search algorithms on these social media platforms are actually just so bad like and this is just X Instagram's even worse LinkedIn's even worse so you need some sort of more fine grain control over the API if you actually want to

[13:57] find really high quality outliers is kind of what we discovered and I I totally agree I mean it's funny that we're like four years into LLM's writing and it's still like they just will not be able to write at the top 1% needed in order to make something really hit hard or go viral from people. Fact, it's probably more work to try to get prompts in LLM to write really really well than for you to just do it yourself at a certain point. Yeah, it it is. I think about this all the time where because of the nature of LLM's because it's textbased, people are like, "Oh my god,

[14:29] this is going to replace writers. It's the first thing it's going to replace." And four years later, I've been hearing just give it 3 months, just give it 6 months, it's going to replace writers. that's like still so far off from doing that. And I think there is a pretty logical reason as to why that's the case. Do you have any ideas as to like

[14:45] why are LLM still not able to write? Well, I I do. Yeah. Actually, as basically in Origami, we have LLM generate email copy for people. And we've seen that like we can put in so much work to making the LLM write a good email and it will just still look like AI generated. And we just ask ourselves over and over again like why is that? And what I found is like if you're using AI to generate one email for one person, you can make it really good. But if you're trying to generate stuff at scale for different people for different audiences, like you just don't know what the right output is

[15:20] supposed to look like. And it's the exact same for content. Like you know, the AI with the default prompt that it's already coming in with is supposed to be an expert at whatever you're trying to write for. And it's going to be perfect for like one out of 50 people just off the get- go. But for everybody else, there's just not going to be perfect

[15:36] basically because it has to write it. It's doing the exact same stuff for like 50 different people, 50 different audiences, 50 different emails, whatever. And so in a different way than like coding or something with like a verifiable output, there's just not a right answer. And it basically makes it a persistent problem where like over time you can make the LM more coachable to basically write how the the way you want it, but out of the box there's just no way you can ever make it perfect for so many different people in the

[16:03] different ways they want it to write. How do you think about creating content that accomplishes both things? Going viral, but then also being the type of post that converts really well. I think a lot of people struggle with that where you can almost do either or. And doing both at the same time, that's where obviously you get this explosion of new users, but it's hard to create content that both goes viral and is optimized to convert. Do you have any frameworks or

[16:31] or tips for how to accomplish that? Yeah, definitely. I think for content that converts, there has to be like a massive outweighing of the value that you're giving, the novel value you're giving to the reader compared to just generally viral content. Generally viral content doesn't necessarily even need to give any value. But when you basically the more value you provide in a post, the the higher the the scale will tip towards converting power to the point where you can then throw in a more aggressive CTA. If I'm making a post that's like three or four sentences, there's almost no way that you can actually convert or put your product in

[17:04] there. The longer and the better and the higher quality and the more novel the ideas and you know the less discussed but the more useful it actually is, the better room and territory you're going to be able to get into for conversion. And so that's why I think it's really important basically to for me the best way to do it is I'll basically record really really long transcripts of me talking about like what's working for our customers, what I see working go to market, etc. and then I'll try to break those up into different posts, stories, concepts, etc. Um, and then basically plug the product cuz that that's the

[17:33] only way you can consistently do it. You can throw your product into like a shorter post like I've done like some bullet points like these are the best tools to do whatever, but those are actually convert a lot less well than just something that's like jam-packed with value. I love that approach of just doing a voice note. I went on a bike ride the other day and it was just like a beautiful bike ride where I had my Apple voice note taker and I was just brain dumping all my thoughts about a particular topic and then that just becomes this knowledge base that you can

[18:02] pull from to put unique ideas out there. I think that that you need to have those two things like identifying outliers, but then also you need to have this very valued dense bank of knowledge that you can pull from and kind of filter through this outlier template that you've found. Do you want to do one more thing which is maybe pull up one of your posts that you're like this one really accomplished both things of got amazing traction and went viral and it also converted extremely well and maybe we can just look at it and analyze it and be like

[18:35] okay how like why did this work so well? Yeah, for sure. Here I can pull one up that I made like 5 days ago. Here's one that I I had right here that I made 5 days ago. I got 4,000 bookmarks. And basically, here's the CTA. It's really sneaky. You can use Origami AI. I'll just break down how I came up with this post. Um, so number one, obviously, I found an outlier post. So, I found something that I thought would work really well. Um, that was similar. I I would say honestly weaker than this. Um, and obviously no CTA for my thing, but that was how I got inspired for this. I

[19:07] came up with the hook myself. I actually do talk to a lot of YC founders and so I can basically turn any conversation I I had with the founder into a hook of some sorts that's actually going to be like pretty accurate cuz I I basically talk to so many of these guys every single week. And so this is the part it it cuts off right here. So the hook is basically this part right here. And I knew that most of this was already a proven hook from the prior inspiration post, but I tried to make it a little bit stronger um by getting a little bit more specific

[19:36] with the example, with the amount, and with like basically the number one thing you want to do is tell people something they don't already know, something that's non-obvious. That's like the most important thing is like people think they're going to be getting something new out of it. If that's not conveyed in the beginning, which I tried to basically convey here, um nobody's going to keep reading. And then the rest of this post basically a lot of rehooking, you know, like I know you've already seen this but you actually haven't. A lot of these types of tactics. And then I basically go in and tell a story about

[20:02] like a tactic that you can use to get customers. And then at the end I'm basically saying that origami is the best way to do this. And then I actually give them like a prompt to do this with origami. So the whole thing is basically once you zoom out, it's basically just describing a really great workflow that you can completely automate in origami just told like in story mode with a specific example with a hook with a proven format. And so honestly if you can do that like [music] tell a story about a workflow that's painful that is actually kind of like great for growing a business and then explain how actually

[20:37] you can do all that with your tool and you can find a proven format to fit that. It's just like that's the holy trinity right there. Um, and so I try to do these every single week to be honest. There's such an art to doing this. A few things that I've noticed. So, starting actually at the bottom, the CTA is not here's the link if you want to use origami. Having user origami AI with this prompt that is such a subtle difference that makes makes all the difference where it's like it seems less like you're selling it. It's more like hey here's like a prompt to use in this

[21:13] tool rather than just like go and use this tool. So that I think is huge. Another thing if you go up to the top just to kind of break this down what are the ingredients that are making this post work? [music] The YC founder thing is huge, especially on X, like know your audience. People on X love to know what YC founders are up to. And I also think what copyrightiting ingredient are you using there. Talk to a YC founder today. I would say social proof where it's like they are YC founder. You're they have like the social proof of like or maybe it's like status and then who pivoted recently but

[21:48] is already at 25K a month with one go to market trick. super sneaky, which I would say is curiosity. So, you're using a curiosity gap. And then the other thing is like you have this implicit benefit in that first line that the reader thinks if I read this, I'm going to get this benefit. And the benefit that the reader believes that they're going to get is they're going to learn how did this YC founder scale from zero to 25K a month so quickly. So you have like social proof, you have a curiosity gap, you have this implied promised benefit all within one sentence. That that's my reading on it. Yeah. I don't I

[22:28] don't know what you like. Are there any other ingredients in there that you're like also this or do you disagree with any of those? No, I mean honestly that that's exactly how I think about it, too. I use slightly different words to describe each part of it, but that's that's the basically the same exact equation. And it's funny because like in some sense the hook is like the really unique like artistic part where you're trying to bring all that stuff together and the actual body in my opinion is a lot more mechanical. You don't necessarily need to be once you've bought the reader in to the benefit. All you need to do is

[22:58] basically keep the curiosity and keep rehooking them every couple of sentence and obviously continuing to provide them [music] um what they feel is valuable to them. So it's actually a lot easier once you get through this gap. Can you walk through it using your words and terminology and just be like this is exactly what's going on here? Yeah, for sure. The hook I would describe very similarly. I mean, yeah, exactly. It's like this is I would say this is a known successful hook where it's basically talking to a YC founder and it's it's for similar reasons to what you said. You're promising a benefit. You're promising something

[23:30] non-obvious. So, they're going to learn something new here and obviously like this framework of like they pivoted but they already did this. It's basically a more creative way to say this can get you 0 to X, which is just a classic known successful hook. So, it's basically like a remix of that. And then, yeah, going on going on here, you can see I I am basically trying to and a lot a lot of this I did get from the original inspiration post, but I basically tried to throw in more rehooks here. So, like a lot of I know you think that you know where this is going, but

[23:58] you actually don't. This is going to be completely unique, which it actually is compared to the original post. And so, that's what I tried to do here. immediately throw in like a rehook. And then obviously a lot of this is just stuff I know is like Xplatform specific like throwing in like these basically like short burst. Sometimes you see these with people put throwing like an arrow in front of them. Um sometimes it's just like these lines that just does really well because basically when people see a lot of this, they'll go for the bookmark button. So this this type of content gets bookmarked at a way

[24:26] higher rate, which is obviously the mechanic that I typically try to optimize for. my posts don't really get that many likes or replies in proportion to the bookmarks. So, I've realized as an educational creator basically and um as for a conversion mechanic, bookmarking is the most powerful like [music] thing that you want to optimize for. And so, a really great way to get people to bookmark is basically to throw in steps, step-by-step things and like these like search phrases plus just like things in like these like bunches of like short little lists. These just trigger in people's head like I should bookmark this. I might want to come back

[25:01] to this later. It's really dense packed with things that are valuable. And then obviously a lot of these things I think are just like smaller like where are you going to throw in your own CTA and make it look good? Some sort of urgency to make them again your goal isn't necessarily to make them act on this

[25:17] right away because people are scrolling. The goal the primary goal is to just get them to bookmark because if you get way more bookmarks you're going to get more people acting on it period. So that's basically the whole goal in your head is like how do you make people keep reading and bookmark it? Last question. Why bookmark compared to

[25:32] other engagement metrics? Honestly, this is more specific to my page, but I've just seen that like that tends to be the driving function for my content is the bookmark. Like I'll give posts that have like 10 times as many bookmarks as likes. And I'm not exactly sure actually from my studies of the X algorithm, it's actually way better to be getting quote tweeted or honestly reposted than it is to be getting bookmarked. But it's a lot harder to

[25:58] drive those with educational content. Honestly, it's it's easier with stories with things that are relatable, things that are controversial. But that's just not my lane. And so basically, when you're competing in the algorithm on the headto [music] head, I'm not in the same lane as like those other story type posts. I'm being served to people who are on X to learn. That's basically my own ICP. And so all I need to be doing is basically competing for that engagement metric because this isn't the type of content that people like reply to or talk about that much. But this is the other type of content that my ICP on

[26:27] X is engaging with. So as long as I can be the strongest at driving, you know, this mechanic, it's going to be successful and serving my content. Okay. Actually, the last question is, as a founder, how many hours a day would you say that you spend on content creation? I spend one day a week on it. So, Sundays, um, I'll basically spend like I want to say like 6 to 8 hours and I'll prepare like 30 or 40 posts for the week on X LinkedIn and I'll just write through all these, you know, I'm using origami basically the whole time to do all the heavy lifting and the finding

[27:00] and then I'm basically printing through and making sure it it hits all the different like content pillars and frameworks that it should. From there, I'm not doing anything else. I'm just basically coming in, posting it, and then leaving. Awesome. Well, thanks for coming today. Uh, I appreciate it. Where can people find out more about your origami if they

[27:20] want to know more or learn more? Honestly, I go the deepest on educational stuff for content outbound go to market on YouTube. So, you can check out my YouTube. It's just Finn Mallerie. I've seen your content. I'm like, dang, this is this is an up andcoming channel cuz I think you started like fairly recently, but the videos are very high quality. Thank you. Yeah, about a month ago. But honestly, it's my favorite platform because the others are It's funny because people always talk about YouTube being optimized for watch time, but YouTube, you also optimize even harder just for pure education and value. Um, so I feel like there's just a

[27:53] higher skill threshold needed in order to like make anything that works. True. I think YouTube's also great cuz it's like the perfect hub content because you have to you have to do very value dense educational content which then provides a transcript that you can feed into a tool like Origami to distribute that same information on X in a way that works on X or or on LinkedIn

[28:17] as an example. Exactly. Literally everything is downstream of it. extract the transcript and you've already got your X and your LinkedIn concepts and you can extract the shorts basically and that creates your top offunnel like short form even if you're not already doing it like for posterity basically you'll just have that like volume source so you basically just need to be good at YouTube and you can do the

[28:37] others. Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on. That was fun and uh that's the episode here. I can wear more up.

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