# Question + Answer: Patrick Collison, Co-Founder, Stripe – MicroConf 2016

Channel: Rob Walling
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSK9W9rh3s
Duration: 36 min
Language: English
Words: 6837
Transcript page: https://viewrankai.com/tools/youtube-transcript/KQSK9W9rh3s

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[0:00] [Music] [Music] [Applause] thank you so it is indeed a pleasure to share the stage with you sir no no I'm just delighted to be here I've been following my crow hunt from from the tweets for several years and this is like the one conference totally serious this is one conference I really wanted to go to this year and so yeah it's really fun to be here to give you an example of the kind of guy Patrick is um we just met for the first time you know about an hour ago and he says what would make this a win for you and I'm thinking you know you raised two hundred and

[0:52] eighty million dollars right five billion dollar valuation now that's right in the neighborhood I read it on TechCrunch or something um so everything you read there is accurate uh yeah so I've heard so I you know my first question obviously you know you know the group here where there's this early-stage entrepreneurs most of us are self-funded there are some folks who raise funding we're not you know anti that stance or anything there are times when it wouldn't make sense in the early days of stripe you know you're basically going against this behemoth of the payment card industry right so was the which is more difficult building the tech or

[1:32] getting over the massive amounts of red tape that exists in that industry good question so um if for context here I mean on the one hand I feel a little bit like sort of you know not the ideal microcon attendee because as you pointed out stripe is not exactly sort of a bootstraps business anymore but stripe likely the impetus behind it I really did come from a lot of our friends being sort of in this community and sort of themselves trying to build bootstraps businesses I mean there were the kinds of businesses that needed payment processing right and that weren't just funded by VC dollars and John and I were

[2:16] just so struck by the fact that for so many of them they either like spend weeks or months setting up the payment side of things or you know the sort of the more interesting one was people had these ideas or they created these free products and they didn't even charge for it because it's oh I'll go solve it later and it was kind of too much hassle they never sort of got over the activation energy and and then I think in some ways that that had major downsides because some of them didn't discover that some of their products or ideas could in fact be sort of quite

[2:46] viable businesses and so hey that that's sort of the the general origin and it was basically as painful and as awkward and as complicated to sort of to deal with the legacy finance industry entities as you might think and then I remember sort of when we again first started thinking about the idea we I mean we knew nothing about the sort of the morass of things that sort of vaguely fit together but we said of didn't quite know how they fit together right and we're going to the authorize.net website and they had some like PDF guide to how the payment industry works and I read the guide and

[3:22] like said I was definitely more confused after reading that guide and like there were like gateways and ISOs and processors and acquirers and banks and issuing banks and acquiring banks and like yeah good lord and your IQ dropped in back and I don't have any despair but and so so we were sort of trying to figure out all that stuff and then we you know we went and we talked to some banks and I remember we managed to sort of get a meeting pretty early on actually with with Wells Fargo and went and met with somebody there and we're sort of describing our idea to them and

[4:01] we're gonna build this kind of full stack payments a solution and sort of replace all the difference that have segmented components that had previously existed in the industry and again pitching this like nice well-intentioned person who had sort of agreed to take some time out of her day to meet with these kind of completely unproven entrepreneurs and like no I don't I don't think she sort of quite thought it was either a good idea or that sort of we're the people that build it and I imagine I don't know if she had like a security button under her desk but if she had I suspect she would've been like

[4:30] pushing it but it really did not go over well and so jokes aside we managed to build an Envy key of stripe fairly quickly and so just kind of built it on top of an existing payment system and so we said we didn't actually solve the hard problems but it did sort of provide a way for people to just get a sense for for what the private experience might be like if we'd actually managed to solve the kind of hard financial infrastructure questions underneath and then it took us from that MVP instead of getting the first production user it took us about call it 1516 months until we sort of actually

[5:08] got sort of proper banking and financial industry deals done and indeed required us kind of raising investment and so yeah I mean there's certainly lots of technical challenges that come with stripe although honestly they've kind of come later in many ways it's just kind of scaling issues that arise kind of at high volume it was fairly straightforward straightforward to build the first kind of prototypes the the the payments industry stuff was was definitely hard and so you would say you bootstrapped it then until I mean you built that MVP essentially as a bootstrap company you didn't raise funding until that 15 16 month period after you already had something yeah so

[5:44] basically the the timeline was John I started working on this when we were in school and you know we had previously worked in a company that had gone through Y Combinator and so that was kind of how we got to know some of the kind of entrepreneurship community and then you know one of our friends worked in this company you guys probably know it an instant domain search and so we had a sort of a lot of friends through that community building various sorts of bootstrapped businesses which again is kind of how we came to perceive the problem and so John and I were in school

[6:16] we kind of wanted something to work on on the side and we actually were also working on these these iPhone apps and they were it was sort of a suite of iPhone apps that stored an offline copy of Wikipedia so you could read Wikipedia I mean without internet access which was sort of great for traveling right and it was very fun to work on it sort of generated some side income it like helps us pay for school and so we were kind of really sold in this idea of like side projects and especially profitable side projects and so then we were sort of wondering about the

[6:50] the kind of weird incongruity where it was actually very easy to charge for iPhone apps you just like told Apple how much he wants to charge for it right and then it was kind of so difficult to do this on the web we're sort of most other things are actually easier right because you know the app store approval process and all this stuff um so in schools had to go work on this we funded it ourselves partially from the iPhone app revenue and partially was out of savings I mean it wasn't that expensive to you know pay the hosting bill was for our twenty twenty dollars a month and

[7:18] slicehost which I still miss and then for about eight or nine months we funded it ourselves out of savings and you know it at that point it was definitely kind of only viable for us to work with sort of very very forgiving users like our friends basically in that our the the very first user was a company called 280 North they were kind of selling a they worked in the web framework cappuccino which some of you might know and they were sort of selling this this interface builder and we're kind of standard Lean Startup methodology style we're just only building the things they needed we only had Ruby bindings because they were

[8:02] using Ruby and then I we enable them to sort of charge their customers and then Ross at 20 North would ask how do I see how much money I've made right and we'd go a good point and we'd like Google like a quick web dashboard and then he's like how do I refund a payment or like excellent suggestion and we'd like built build a refund thing and then after a couple of weeks Ross is like so when do I get my money and so like when to build the transfer logic and so like could only have worked with with you know our friends basically and again because was

[8:37] being funded from savings I mean you really had to just kind of trust us as people to you know take a better image and then that summer which is now kind of eight months into it that's we sort of decided to kind of change from being a side project to sort of actually trying to build this seriously and and we went and we raised some money from from Peter teal right and a business like this I mean this is one of the the someone's calling me so many audience calling me on the phone this is a kind of business that you you just can't get away without raising money

[9:07] like you can boot strap a stripe you know without having a big bucket of money because you don't have the kind of the credibility right with the banks as well as the the people who are going to be your end users yes and so sorry I I I guess kind of two things became apparent to us first was that kind of we initially thought of stripe as again for for people kind of like us or like our friends building these sort of again bootstrapped businesses we really believe that sort of charging people for things was more conducive to good products than advertising based business models but sort of fundamentally for the

[9:45] people like us who we saw running into these issues and then through that sort of eight month period we basically came to realize that it seemed like a stripe or as it was then dive payments might be more useful for a broader set of people than we'd initially thought we sort of started getting all these kind of inbound requests and sort of just word-of-mouth inquiries from from people who we would never have thought of as being kind of in our original target audience and so we kind of came to think that stripe might be more than just sort of a little side project to work on while in school

[10:17] and then the second thing was exactly as you say I mean it's all well and good to sort of be pursuing a a sort of a very Lean Startup methodology with very forgiving initial users but if you're actually going to go and execute this seriously and sort of try to build it properly no one in the in the industry is going to take you seriously unless you're sort of this is a high probability that it looks like you'll be around for the long term unless you're well capitalized unless you people can really trust and rely upon you and so I think for our particular business would

[10:50] be very difficult to to dis all funded right and having a check from Peter teal I'm sure gave you a bit of credibility in that space yeah I really admire him for for being willing to invest because I mean that this is you know I guess the the sort of naivety of youth in that again we're in school we went and met with him and basically we spent of an hour telling him why kind of PayPal sucked right and know if in future years you know someone who's pitching me and my stripe is terrible I'm not I wish I could be confident that my reaction would be to

[11:24] sort of want to invest in them but to his credit he on the spot agreed to invest $200,000 and and absolutely that sort of I mean not not overnight but sort of led to the sort of the train of events that eventually actually led to us working with Wells Fargo and so kind of ironically that that Bank that had sort of you know I think entirely understandably declined to work with us back when we were kind of two kids in college that ended up being the sort of fundamental enabler the first version of stripe so I'm interested you know I heard about stripe originally it was

[12:01] word of mouth right and I was actually being interviewed on a podcast and I think it was Derek Bailey who asked me have so what do you think about stripe because I was using PayPal web payments Pro at the time and I had not the Reds on that account which was a catastrophe but Derek says he says what are you using I said pimp our eyes yeah PayPal web payments bro and he says what do think a stripe and I was like what's stripe and it's a shocking day you know it's somewhere recorded that I didn't but a show of hands who else heard about a purely word-of-mouth like someone

[12:29] saying you gotta check this thing out yeah so obviously what so was that was that like your number one traction channel in the early days did you really I mean were you the one in 10,000 business that just built a better mousetrap and then people talked about it or was there something else that you guys did intentionally to get that word spread in the early days um so that's amazing that so many people have heard about a year through art of math so and in general I think it's my sense like I well I've only built sort of ones company or business does it of any sort

[13:05] of scale and so I want to be kind of careful about over generalizing from our particular experiences maybe if I'd gone through this 10 times I'd have sort of a better you know distribution to sort of sample from um but I generally think that in the early days company and this is the advice I now try to give folks and I think that businesses tend to overweight analytics and metrics and underweight so objective experiences and the sort of incomparable kind of high bandwidth data that you get from just watching people use the product and so we would kind of end back to those kind of friends using

[13:40] the probably point we would obsessively just observe them using stripe in the early days right and we would go like meet them at coffee shops and have them integrate stripe we would have them kind of speak their questions aloud as they use the product as they sort of you know encountered roadblocks and and as they looked for things they expected to exist but didn't actually exist and so forth we tried to figure out additional ways to go and build this kind of dynamic into the product and so for the first stripe users every single web request and every single like in the dashboard and every single API request generated

[14:17] an email to myself and Jon's inboxes and so we would just see precisely what they were doing in the product and and and we'd see that well they're sort of sending this API request and it's triggering this error and they're like repeatedly kind of triggering this erroneous API requests I mean clearly something is off in the QuickStart guide during the documentation or whatever right or there maybe you see some kind of usage pattern in the dashboard which sort of suggests a demand path that you should kind of optimize you know more more properly or something like that we built a little widget into the bottom of the dashboard

[14:52] and the bottom of the docs and that sort of allowed them to just type a sentence and kind of hit enter and that again would immediately go to our inbox and so it sort of rather than send a support request they can just sort of complete the thought that's kind of half-baked in their head and then we realized that we could increase the response rate to that if instead of just having a blank box we would start the thought for them and so we thought up a bunch of placeholder texts we had I really wish this page had ellipsis or the worst thing about this page is ellipsis stuff like that and

[15:25] then people almost that helping it themselves like started completing the thought and filling in the box and so again we got this like really kind of high bandwidth feedback and so I don't know if it's um kind of accurate or not but I attribute sort of you know us being so lucky and having this word of mouth to just basically spending just under two years in this iterative loop such that because we started working on stripe as a side project in October 2009 we launched it publicly in September 2011 and so there was just under two years of this kind of iteration um and you know I think that's part of it I

[16:06] think part of it is also we had the the good fortune I guess and we're you know these weren't the I mean PayPal website payments Pro it kind of tells you everything you need right there in the name right like these weren't the best optimized products and yet they were sort of super important and so I think there are other domains first that if the incumbents are already pretty good and it's kind of harder to make em like if I was gonna go build project management software for example I think they were sort of a lot of people have tried a lot of things there a lot of

[16:41] really good people have worked in that space and not sure as it is such a large improvement as possible but because of the barriers to entry in the industry you know we were competing against the payments pros and the authorize.net s-- and so I think that was also just more intrinsically favorable right and it sounds like your obsession with product and UX and just making it easy for folks was was a big part of that yeah and you know I I did not know terms like M UX and sort of user research and the methodologies and and so forth at the time it's kind of been funny now to

[17:11] discover things like microcon for it said if I people are sort of talking more more knowledgeably about the kinds of things we sort of had some instincts around but yet for us it was basically just the unglamorous work of just obsessively watching people use the product constantly and then fixing the that was stupid so in addition to word-of-mouth then you know take me take us back to let's say 2011 you launched and in that first year it was growth brisk where or was it you know flat for a while and what were your - I know where to mouth was a big one but what was it was

[17:49] there another traction channel that you guys really took took a hold of yes so growth for us is kind of weird because I'm there's two kinds of growth right there's the number of businesses built on stripe grows and then obviously or at least in some cases hopefully many cases the businesses themselves grow right then and they can grow with sort of enormous lag in that just to you know instacart for example is a business that is built on stripe but you know instacart signed up for stripe as a pervert meter at gmail.com right and so just like this random gmail address you signed up for stripe some day and and

[18:26] when a gmail address signs up it's it's sort of it's so difficult for us to know how to how to weigh it right what it's going to become I mean even the user themselves of course does not know what it's going to become and and so we had some difficulty in the early days kind of measuring our growth which sounds kind of funny right but we could tell that like there are more Gmail addresses this week than last week but we sort of didn't have a sense for for what they were going to become or or were we having the right kinds of people sign up

[18:56] and so again we used to sort of really try to go talk to the people talk to them about what they were building and just try to get some kind of qualitative sense with which to augment the data and and and even now it's wild to see for say the cohort that signed up in 2011 I mean it's still growing really quickly like we still ourselves to this day have not learned how valuable was the cohort that signed up for stripe in in 2011 so that's kind of just the general caveat and I'm growth and I think that's you know a lot of businesses obviously have

[19:26] a kind of cement of negative churn or sort of you know net ads in there a more growth um but I think it's kind of it's it's more acute for us maybe it's comparable to AWS or you know it's also come in proportion to scale the business in terms of distribution channels we also I guess realized that the the developer and entrepreneurship communities and obviously they kind of blend together to a large degree and but you know somewhat overlap are somewhat different but largely overlapping and you know people really like to that those commune these have become more efficient basically more efficient at sharing information that I think 10-15 years ago

[20:11] just there weren't these forums there was no hacker news there was no Twitter there was no microcon there were no podcasts just that there weren't sort of effective channels for disseminating good advice good insights and helping people camp discover good products and so I think kind of the good news is that for people building good products the world has gotten better at sort of quickly reacting to that without sort of a multi-year multi-decade kind of billboard driven ground war I think just by being participants in the community by being active on Twitter and hacker news and listening to podcasts all these things we we never kind of thought about

[20:46] it especially formally but we had kind of some intuitive sense for that and so we just optimized a stripe and sort of our communications to be like the kinds of things we wanted to read as members of that community to sort of um you know Amir mentioned I think he's 100% right just writing things as if you're writing to your friends I mean that that is exactly the advice that we give internally within stripe and you know I think because not that many companies had done a sort of one stripe launched or had kind of realized that the world had changed that extent we're kind of in

[21:27] the again fortunate position where we were one of the first and so well I think we benefit from that habit having said that I mean I think it that only works because people actually wanted to share it in the sense that hey there is now this better thing you know you no longer have to use one of the legacy incumbents and so you could argue that it's not actually that different from just building a good product sure sure I'm curious what metrics did you monitor in the early days to figure out whether a customer was like a good profitable customer and had or did you monitor

[22:02] anything they're late is it sounds like that you may not have had much and how does that contrast with what you're monitoring today so when so in the early days the thing I monitored most closely well we monitor just like the total kind of dollar flow moving through stripe just kind of a general you know it's so like the heart rate on a patient it's like if if for example the dollar flow rate was falling something is clearly broken but I'm not sure that we could sort of know a whole lot more or you know infer a whole lot more from that metric and because for

[22:38] example if it's growing faster or slower you know that could mean there's some seasonality at play it could mean that the businesses themselves aren't you know doing as good a job as they want it doesn't necessarily mean is anything wrong with stripe and so forth and so we it's an aggregate metric so it's it's a little hard to get in right right and again you know we didn't even fully realize the extent to which this is true at the time but there's just such kind of huge latency in it and the one that I really kind of paid attention to which isn't really a metric but is is the sort

[23:10] of qualitative measure is whenever I saw something cool get built and that charged people I would just go look at what they were using for payments and if they weren't using stripe I would go ask them why aren't they shooting stripe and sometimes it was because they just hadn't heard of it obviously especially in the early days or perhaps we were missing some kind of functionality I mean before we were available in other countries it was very often because stripe is not available in Canada or in Germany or whatever and and just listen to those reasons and actually still to this day I pay a huge amount of

[23:41] attention to that one and because it's it's sort of the leading indicator for you know what the world would look like five ten years down the line um having said that I think we were too slow to to you know I've kind of given all these general kind of epistemic caveats about sort of how much we can tell from the sort of quantitative measures in stripe and but I think that we were too slow to kind of take advantage of them as much as we could have and so we now have an analytics team of four or five people and actually I just you know before this

[24:18] I was looking through our our automated weekly report where we've kind of instrumented everything and sort of iterated to punish to sort of figure out what the most helpful measures are instead of every major different part of the company be it sort of the onboarding flow or usage of the different products or whatever the case might be and that you know has ended up being sort of extremely useful both instead of detecting anomalies or just kind of weird behaviors were even advertently broken something and or in discovering places that are sort of things are actually working very well and we just sort of hadn't realized and we should

[24:53] kind of go take it more seriously and so you know I'm not sure how sort of generally applicable this advice is but and certainly if you start where we did really weighting the qualitative stuff you know it it turns out the the actual metrics themselves are very important too so did you ever look in the early days at what you were doing and have a serious let's say doubts or regrets like are there things that you feel like you wish you could could do over you guys hit a low point where you were there were definitely low points and and this is you know having dinner with a friend

[25:33] a few nights ago and I was telling him that I'm not sure that you know no matter what happens to stripe I don't think I would ever start another company just because it's it's so difficult even when it works well the I'm just I'm not sure I have the emotional energy to sort of go through all of that again I tell my wife that every year yeah I think you probably get like some number of years to sort of be really invest in it or at least well evidently and because there's existence proof of this some people have some immense fortitude for us I do not

[26:11] think I have infinite fortitude I think maybe I can spend sort of you know ten years in the in the building phase and but but it's it's it's not unbounded and and and certainly in stripes case I mean in many ways we had this sort of we're incredibly lucky right in that we were kind of it brain a large market were sort of building a product for for people who are just really fun to be around and that you know I there exist other businesses where I sort of feel sorry for them because they I mean they don't get to work with entrepreneurs all the time it's like the

[26:47] the most fun userbase to work with and you know generally the products that have grown I mean pretty well year over a year and so you know we don't have a whole lot to complain about right and and and yet even despite that like the world really manages to surprise you a sort of day by day in how many things can go wrong and like including today in fact I you know I woke up this morning to an email and I was like that was a piece of bad news that I didn't realize I could get and and and you know it's nothing terrible I mean it in fact

[27:24] quite the country which you realize is it sort of past some scale like the world will succeed in surprising you in this way essentially every day right and I think there's kind of this weird thing in the sort of the entrepreneur mentality where I mean this is sort of two extremes right and I mean you can really react to each of these and sort of fully internalize the extent to which the sky is falling you're this is terrible like really have it weigh on you and and so forth or you can be kind of blithely kind of you know pollyannaish and and sort of skip along

[28:02] merrily despite these bad things happening and and I think if you're the former I mean just starting a company is going to be utterly miserable I mean you shouldn't do it and if you're the latter you'll really enjoy it but you'll fail because you know you you you won't react to the problems and so you kind of need to be somewhere in between of like actually cracking all of the problems and internalizing them to some degree but sort of somehow able to kind of function as an ostensibly normal human most of the time and and I think that's that's genuinely a tough challenge and and really has been for us and so I mean

[28:38] I again I feel kind of bad in some way talking about it because we again don't have a whole lot to complain about and I mean I think you know Tracy story for example I mean like that's that's real tenacity like we have not had to demonstrate our mettle kind of in the same way but even when things go as as stripe did there absolutely even evenings where I've said you know John and I have had to sort of console ourselves in different so to summarize that when it when it fails it's hard and when it works it's even harder I'm not sure it's even harder but yeah I think if you're hoping

[29:15] for sort of a a blissful existence neither path is good it seems like like that it seems like an entrepreneurship no matter what happens there's gonna be there's gonna be struggles so do you have is there something that sticks out to you about a decision you guys made or something like a big regret you have that you wish you could go back and do differently as you were maybe launched and growing just over the past you know three four years you can tell this is like an entrepreneurship event it's all all the bad things you know and regrets yes and so something that I think very deeply internalized

[29:57] [Music] sort of across stripe in the mentality John and I really had and I you know kind of described it a little bit it's sort of this idea of you know broadly speaking being willing to do things that don't scale I'd be willing to just if if a thing needs to get done sort of roll up our sleeves and just go do it and you know I think this is common to many perhaps almost every kind of early stage company we've really kind of fought very hard to retain it as stripe grows when a new class of stripes starts on Monday the the first thing they do is John and

[30:30] I meet with them we spend an hour and a half with them and what are the things we impress upon them at this notion of sort of nothing is anyone else's job and there is no task that it's beneath you I mean you've probably been hired into a particular role but maybe the company's needs will change and you know you should not join a start-up if you're not excited about the fact that you might be called upon to do I mean almost anything at all it's a some future point I think that mentality is kind of generally good the kind of problematic flipside is not being kind of disciplined and rigorous

[31:05] enough about how how things need to scale and you know both both Traci and Amir sort of talked about this but you know we partially because we weren't we didn't kind of wanted to UM but you know it seems tempting fate to sort of believe the curves and think well in a year's time we're going to need to be doing 10x more of this right because you know you kind of think in the back of your mind does the sort of eternal pessimist so something terrible will happen and you know that that's not really going to occur then partially you sort of had this founder mentality of well if 10x

[31:43] more of it needs to happen next year you know we'll just work 10x harder and and you know it turns out that you you can sort of you know 10x the number of hours you work in the day as we discovered um and and so as a consequence then we were sometimes I think behind the curve in terms of where we had to be in just automating processes or sort of figuring out how to scale different functions of the company and so were we to do it all again and I think again it feels like tempting fate to sort of invest to the point where you think you you're gonna

[32:15] need to be but I would do more of that right so stuff that may have felt or seems like premature optimization at the time in retrospect would actually have been a good move since you guys were growing so quickly right now and there's again you know there's a question of sort of is this the right advice only in the cases where so if it actually happens and that I'm of course there are also instances where the the people invested for the scale didn't happen and they are probably you know sitting at other events saying you know don't assume the scales just to do the unscalable way for as long as possible

[32:52] and so it's hard to know but at least in our case and I wish even now I wish we were doing more of that very cool I have one more question for you and then we'll wrap up lunch so a trip we keep getting we use stripe obviously and when you keep getting people asking us if we're gonna do ad EFT electronic funds transfer so is that something that's coming up and that's really why I brought you up here is I also it'd be awesome to have a little button on that one screen that I would actually genuinely part of the reason I came here is to here's tried feedback

[33:26] and so this is actually great and I'd love to hear from anyone else here but um I've been taking notes all morning but I'm on EFT in particular I mean so there's different for people not who you know haven't read the authorized - you know multi-page PDF guide EFT is yeah electronic funds transfer kind of interbank transfer there are many different kinds there's a CH in Europe sorry a stage in the US there's sapa in europe there's backs in the UK there's a bunch of different systems the good news is we actually just launched our ACH support in the US and so you can now do

[34:00] EFT in the u.s. arbitrarily between bank accounts it's publicly available and it works with our sort of subscription stack and so you can just attach a bank account to a customer the way you might attach a credit card to a customer and everything will just like automatically you know work the right way um and this actually points to something where we did not I think at stripe invests the way we ought to have and so we're really behind the curve in building out a marketing function and I don't mean marketing in terms of you know again putting up billboards but even just the sort of very prosaic aspects of

[34:38] helpfully telling people about the things that are relevant to their interests that you now have that you did not have before and so you know the stripe didn't have ACH support three months ago we now do we as this demonstrates have done a very poor job of telling people about us luckily Dez trainer to cover that yesterday morning know every time I talk to Dez I I almost get physically itchy just like how poor a job we're doing of all the things he talks about the he's wonderful and he's he's advised us and helped us a lot and or the course of strife but we're failing at that and so

[35:21] the well the good news is were succeeding at having EFT and the bad news is were failing at that that last mile well 237 people I think now know about so at least you got that done well thanks so much for joining us you stick around for lunch I will be around almost all the day I really would love to hear other stripe thoughts questions feedback if you don't see me I'm Patrick at Starcom and I will read all those emails and hopefully I can convince him to stick around for the evening event it's DBD right now but I'd really like to have some folks be able to chat with

[35:53] you that'd be great thank you [Applause] you

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