# The Easiest Way to Sell Digital Products - Whop

Channel: Brett Malinowski
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJK5GueVSB0
Duration: 57 min
Language: English
Words: 13264
Transcript page: https://viewrankai.com/tools/youtube-transcript/EJK5GueVSB0

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[0:00] boys how much money do you make W processes almost $200 million a year 200 million yeah okay that's wild what is processing in general like every time someone pays that counts to so each month uh that bitove $15 million a month um is how much is spent on W so people like if they're joining a Discord Community 50 bucks a month you're doing the payment processing and you get like a flat fee of that and that's how WT makes money since exactly so the whole goal is to there many products many creators on your platform selling through [ __ ] and then you're taking a very small percentage have you ever

[0:34] thought about selling your own products um yeah we we actually used to sell a couple of our own products and I think that it was a little bit distracting for a while um we'll definitely go back to doing that at some point um once we build out a lot of the underlying infrastructure because that's the most important thing right now um yeah we definitely thought about selling our own products I think if anything just to act as inspiration for other people to come on and sell them because at the end of the day it's like we're trying to sell we're trying to build shovels um for

[0:58] everyone else to sell and and I think it's I get a little distracting if we start doing that um but to your point earlier like who are we if we're not using our own product it's kind of this doesn't make any sense so I think we can do a much better job with that the platform is really cool I think it's going to be really important I think of it like if Discord and Amazon had a baby and you guys are solving like a really big problem especially as we get more and more technological in the world but the coolest thing about your story to me

[1:22] is how much you guys have like iterated throughout your careers and also you guys are just like Premier entrepreneurs raising ton of money in New York just sounds like total badasses so explain where you guys kind of started with [ __ ] yeah and what it is today and then ultimately where you think it's going yeah totally um so Cam and I met we were 13 years old when we were younger basically built a [ __ ] ton of software projects and we spent a bunch of time programming different projects Cameron would go online different forums and try to sell them to random people on the

[1:53] internet and we basically did that our entire life um up until coid and when Co happened everyone in their cousin wanted to have a startup they all wanted to live online no one wanted to work at 95 anymore so what did people do they tried to start software businesses and we found a forum on Discord and Reddit and basically people were buying and selling sneaker bot software it's like the weirdest thing ever sneaker bot sneaker Bo you remember like Yeezys Jordans all the crazy stuff that used to sell really fast um people would build automated pieces of software that would get the shoes before they sell out um and that's

[2:24] exactly what we built when we were really young um so we understood the market we understood how how it was pretty popular and Co made it all crazy so we found a forum where people were basically posting on it and like hey anyone have this sneaker bot available for next Tuesday um I'll cash app you $10 the shitest system ever you could imagine like people were getting scammed it wasn't really clear what the pricing were prices were um it was a nightmare and it was almost equivalent of like buying renting a house in Craigs like super sus you don't really do that um so we saw that and we at the same time had

[2:54] a bunch of software that was kind of like left over from when we were younger and people were buying it like crazy in this forum so we're like there got to be a better way to do this we built [ __ ] and it was a way for us to sell the software we already owned um and it started to take off everyone from the Forum started to come and um purchase on our Marketplace and um so what problem did it solve it solved the problem that um shoes sell out and you need to get software in order to automate that so that you can buy them before they sell

[3:21] out so you made a like a shoe buying bot piece of software so we made the software when we were younger and then we made a Marketplace for this software and that's what [ __ ] started as velers to sell the same software okay so it's like a white label bot for people to Marketplace to buy sneaker Bots okay so how I got in touch with you guys or heard about what you guys did is we were trying to run a paid community on Discord yeah and [ __ ] was the ability to do that I just connect my Discord server to [ __ ] and I can charge people 50 bucks

[3:49] a month and they get access to my private community Through Discord and so that kind of seems like a natural transition from the shoe bot Marketplace to Discord so tell me about that decision yes so when we were selling sneaker Bots a lot of times the seller of the sneaker bot wanted to include Discord as part of the offering so you bought the sneaker bot and you also got added to the Discord and then people saw that and they're like wait we actually don't even need to just sell sneaker Bots maybe we can just sell a Discord um and they started to do that so that's

[4:16] kind of that's kind of what happened sellers early sellers just wanted to sell a broader variety of items um and we started to add add those items it was always early sellers wanted to bundle more things and then opened up new opportunities so just let it keep it so shoe sellers wanted to make shoe disc ords so they could bring other people in and have like a community of shoe flippers and so now you guys basically have turned into not just that one bot but you have a Discord Community platform where shoe sellers would come create their own shoe communities and use your Bots to charge for Access or to

[4:45] facilitate shoe alerts imagine you spend like $2,000 on a really complicated piece of software that's going to figure out how to get Yeezys before they sell out um you're going to want like-minded people that use that software also that you can chat with and Discord is really great for that um and then people realize they could actually stand up a business independently of the actual software um and just have a like-minded people group of people that and they can chat about whatever they want so it started extremely Niche helping people snipe shoe drops for rare shoes then people ask for Discord servers and more features so you built features around

[5:17] Discord communities in the shoe flipping Niche and then you evolve to yes all Discord communities essentially right and then people take that and they they get really creative and I think that that's really fun to for us to watch at least because we never really are saying hey everyone starts selling this to more of um people see what we're selling on our platform they hey this is a cool idea and they bring a new idea into fruition and um on to watch that evolve and so what is WAP today so WAP today is a platform where thousands of U entrepreneurs are running their business and um on one end it's a platform kind

[5:49] of like Shopify where you'd have everything you'd imagine in every single business customer out at your payment processing um and then on the other end you have a marketplace where people can find all the cool businesses on W So when you say Marketplace you mean like if you have a paid Discord server I can put I can list my Discord server on [ __ ] and that's now a Marketplace that if people are scrolling through [ __ ] and they're looking to join Community they could basically find my community exactly you have reviews so customers can understand what the hell is happening in each of the products that

[6:19] they might purchase um pictures reviews description pricing all all that stuff yeah essentially the place that we would have gone to when we were 15 just getting started on the internet wanting to make money seeing a ton of products that we could by safely that's so cool like Discord communities are by far I think some of the most valuable ways to learn the most effective ways to learn especially this day and age and it's like a way better Facebook group yeah and so I think that you guys are spoton and building like I don't know anybody else building anything similar to this but your evolution is probably what

[6:49] excites me the most this is where Discord meets Amazon yeah because you guys are essentially creating like the all-in-one suite for the Creator economy for the everyday creator like me who wants to have a course Community email automations text message marketing everything all in one custom built around my brand but also you're adding the layer of trust that Amazon has with their reviews because everyone I have on this podcast I always try to tell them to sell a course because they're really smart they should but they're all scared to sell courses because courses have this reputation but if you guys nail what you're trying to do that would fix

[7:26] it because you now have like this Amazon reputation score yeah of a course and you can see reviews of like is this course legit where every person's just faking their reviews so kind of talk about that Vision how you see it playing out yeah I mean I think there's a lot of [ __ ] out there like everyone wants to be an entrepreneur now there's this status like um people would rather be entrepreneurs now than people want to want to be Tik Tok dancers as opposed to Astros everyone wants to be a YouTuber um I think that when you have everyone become a YouTuber and everyone is

[7:54] building some type of Internet product you have to have a layer of trust and you have to make sure that you're um Ed educating consumers in way that make sure that they're not going to get scammed because at the end of the day we can focus all day on the creators but people consumers are the ones that are buying the product and we can figure out a way to make sure that they trust what they're buying at the end of the day we'll make creators a lot more money yeah I think ultimately I always would just like oh it's another course platform yeah but what's the difference

[8:19] I think you have a lot of the platforms like the substacks of the world the course platforms of the world they're all very oneoff and we're trying to create the ultimate package for a Creator like you s an entrepreneur to come in start one business scale it man yeah and the reality is courses are not really letting creators max out their potential like if you're just going to sell a course that's great but is not going to be a super long-term business that you're really proud of maybe not like maybe there's some elements of it that are but I think you can do so give me an example of like one creator that

[8:47] you know who's maxing out and walk me through everything they're doing that's a great question I think that the reality is that a lot of creators the the ones that are really maxing out are starting software companies and I think that you mentioned yourself like you're starting something really cool it's software oriented and the reason why that is a lot better and cooler is because you're sleeping and software can be running and I think that we're in software age where um you can actually make a lot of things that you probably couldn't have a couple years ago on some end is like all the big companies that

[9:17] have scaled from 2010 on or like all billion dollar companies they're going to be chipped away at by all the little people that are making software now um like the MJ jorne of the world so so like software is being democratized in a way absolutely AI is making it so you can anyone in their cousin can make a software company um and that's really cool so if you're like me you have a software idea and you want to get it started but you're just intimidated you don't know how to hire developers you don't know how to manage a project getting it designed you're just unfamiliar with the process so that's

[9:45] why I actually had my partner start our agency WGI Labs so we could help you bring your software to life it's a development agency where you get a full team dedicated to your project so you'll get a designer a developer and a project manager so all you have to do is list the features you want and kind of tell us how you want it laid out and then watch it get built week after week so if you have a software idea and you're ready to get started on it go to WGY labs.com and we're happy to help so I'm going to narrow this down to like say a

[10:12] Creator say there's someone like me yeah and I want to use [ __ ] what would be like my ideal feature set to succeed yeah so I mean the you can take what you've learned as a Creator so you're backing into like real problem which maybe helping people make content for example if you can use WAP to spin up some type of SAS that um could help people make content and provide everyone that's doing that with some type of chat and Community aspect you're going to get a really cool product that's actually very useful for people um and they're going to pay a lot of money and and um you're

[10:41] going to make a lot of money so you guys help make software yeah highly so we I mean you can plug into WAP and then like one line of code basically um bring your software to the consumer um and historically that's been like pretty difficult describe the software so what's an example so you can come and this is what we're working on right now so it's a little bit of it time but um you're going to be able to come on [ __ ] and type in a couple words so what you want to build and typically you're either developer or a marketer and very rarely do you have someone that's both

[11:09] um and that's just kind of like Cameron's a marketer I'm a developer and that's why we were super successful when we were younger but reality is like you're maybe 400 500,000 followers you have no idea how to build product and you a developer you have no idea how to build brand so we're going to put this two together and we're going to make it so that you're big big influencer you come on to [ __ ] get a developer type in a couple what you want to build and then that developer can immediately bring it to life on [ __ ] um so oh so you'll hire a

[11:34] developer essentially yeah you can basically hire a developer how are you managing that like say a 100 creators on board immediately how are you going to have 100 developers we're going to start with the best like the really solid ideas that are thought through um for creators so will be 100% approval right yeah okay yeah um but I guess like just to draw parallels to what's happening right now this is already happening except it's a lot of times off platform and I'm sure if you if anyone wants to build a software they're going to have to go on into some sus platform and and hope that developer understands their

[12:02] language and um have to figure out how to explain scope and explain deadlines and explain milestones and Sprints to developers which is a huge pain in the ass and like no one's going to do that um so it's already happening off platform but I think that uh reality is like creators are selling themselves short with what they're selling right now and if we canare a developer so you're trying to help every Creator have their own software essentially yeah we want everyone to have a software business okay so how I'm thinking about this is basically how Mr Beast has the Cho bars he he built the audience as his marketing machine and so

[12:31] he needs a product backing him but the typical online personal brand especially you guys are pretty popular in the make money online Trend that's going to be you make videos then you have a course then you have a community yeah and now you guys already have those built you already have the course platform built you already have the community platform built and now you're going to help them build software yeah because that's all like V1 internet economy stuff like that's not even close to what the potential is um if we let them buildt for yeah the Mr Beast example Mr Beast has mastered growing on YouTube so

[12:58] instead of him pushing he has febles and he physical products but he should have a thumbnail AB testing tool like he should have tools that YouTubers will pay for to help grow just because he's been behind the lens similar to what they've done with physical products why do you think he hasn't done that I think um for someone like that I think the typical like plan for these people need to see stuff and that's just what's worked I think that Mr Beast actually probably does have a lot of software that he doesn't even talk about I guessing um I would say a lot more people would have software if they knew

[13:26] how to build it um and knew how to dist it you guys are way too smart I I don't know how else to describe it how much money did you raise uh we raised um over 17 million how old are you 14 years old 25 and 24 but why' you say 145 okay was I got die this inside joke okay okay uh so 2425 you went to NYU I did where did you go to school I dropped out of high school out of high school why uh making money yes we started I started my first business when I was like 13 14 and then around 15 I was making more money

[14:03] than my parents so had to send it he bought a Tesla when he was like 16 okay the whole point of this conversation I'm going to try to be your translator to the normal people cuz you guys are like understanding the next 20 years of our world and trying to like build that now and there's so much to [ __ ] that I've always struggled to really understand it but it's cuz you're going for such a big Vision right now I think so like if you think about how Amazon was built over 20 years before really got to like where Prime is known and you guys are probably

[14:32] trying to play on that same time Horizon with raising 17 million I assume and so the future of the gig economy the product I service solo preneur that's becoming like a really big Trend WAP is basically going to try to provide you with every single possible product that you could sell to your audience that you could sell as a solopreneur they're going to give you every single platform every single integration every single automation possible the fact that they will even provide you with a developer if you want to build a softare okay so that's so much and I see why it's hard to communicate that to people

[15:05] and because you're only building like piece by piece at a time too so how long have you guys been running [ __ ] officially over two years two years two and a half years damn okay you guys have built so much in two years so what but again what has been like have there been points where like you were not sure on what to do next or like hard decisions you had to make or what to build first or yeah I think cutting out features that we've already built for people that are using them is um that's always super super challenging you're cutting out features well so I think it's like when

[15:33] when um a big group of people comes on a platform and then maybe it's trend is super hot and then um it's a popular product that's sold and some people are lingering on but the vast majority of people sto using it and the problem is it really build makes internal thinking about things very difficult because even like complexities around our UI and like figuring out where buttons go it makes it really convoluted and complicated so we have to cut things out and that pisses a lot of people off I really wish we didn't have to do that um but that's a big Challenge and that I think there's

[16:01] been a lot of times for that's to happen what is your philosophy to building a software company yeah start the problem like it's very real um don't [ __ ] yourself and thinking that some making some fancy software that doesn't really solve a real problem um and then iterate and build that and get customers in the door and get their feedback and um don't stop building until you have something that they really like um and then you have a software company and I think that most people they they stop it yeah I think with us we we just moved so fast in the beginning where it was like

[16:27] something shitty out there is better than making something perfect internally so I think it's also just getting in front of as many people as you can as quickly as you can iterating on the feedback that they give you like how do you grow [ __ ] what's your philosophy for growth I yeah it's it's always been find these Lighthouse figures so find new people that are um kind of like selling in new categories that we want to expand to really get close to them build around them figure out the problems build them the perfect products so much what we were talking about with you your software builds you help you build the

[16:55] perfect software build around you and then that's a new use case that we can they Inspire and they introduce people that are didn't know that that was even possible so like before [ __ ] you didn't really you didn't think that trading could become like proper business in some in some cases I don't think you thought that um building a sneaker bot was like a real business that people are making millions of dollars a year um I think that like Cameron said like going after new categories that get excited about when people tell us and then we get them on we build really good product for them and then they Inspire the next

[17:28] St people that um yeah it's happened in the earlier examples of Mr Beast you started with like the Beast burgers and then did febles and now Logan Paul KSI have Prime and then Kim Kardashian is skims I think um we're trying to follow the same philosophy which is find these creators who don't understand the potential they have and how much money they can make selling their own product instead of doing brand deals use that as inspiration and then go help the millions almost like Drop Shipping for software exactly literally that is what we being it's except there's no marginal cost you don't have to pay any upfront

[17:57] capital for good you have a lot of margins to work with because software is free to send to the next user um but you're exactly right distri so you're telling me that if I like built a software with you guys that then you could almost have that software tool as a white labelable app so let's say the YouTube thumbnail split testing I'm a YouTuber I might start talking about YouTube personal growth and then I can just say hey if you want to learn how to grow on YouTube I make four thumbnails per video and I split test everyone using this tool you to use to check it out but it's

[18:29] just the exact same tool that any other YouTuber can sell directly to Their audience exactly but you take that concept across every single software some can drop ship whatever you want and then you can add your logos you can add slight nuances each Creator obviously um ex yeah someone doing comedy versus someone doing politics might need a slightly altered thumbnail testing tool so it also enables the world going more and more Niche which is great because the end consumer purchasing the product has the perfect product for themselves or even like a thumbnail maker cuz different styles of thumbnails make sense for different type of YouTu so wouldn't Mak sense for a

[19:01] new your props if you're making content for whatever your Niche is it's going to be drastically different than me content for 70-year-old people that are trying to knit like it's super different so the idea is to do this for like 100 to 200 creators and build software tools and then basically create software templates essentially or then anyone who's Sim yeah yeah temp but that's how I think about it templates for anyone to come on how are you going to make it so these people don't get pissed off that like if I came with my software idea and I help you guys build it with me and then you

[19:32] just offer that to everybody like what the hell man not we not do that you can decide if you want to let people take your software and sell it reality is that most developers who are building that software they want people to sell it because they don't have any distribution right so if um I'm a ram developer and I don't have any marketing ability which I don't um I can f I can put my software listed as an app or template and then you can go on from the shop have like a software Marketplace this is what you mean by Shopify yeah Shopify yes holy [ __ ] so you're going to

[20:01] have like a way to literally go to a Marketplace as a Creator and be like do you want to offer a text messaging app exact off literally exactly that is [ __ ] smart I have known you guys for two years and I just figured this out okay holy [ __ ] going back to your question like what has changed it's like we started with one app one template sneaker Bots now we have three soon we'll have 100 you guys have every Discord bot imaginable like if I wanted to build a Discord server or did you have to take those away no we still have those so like if you're if you're

[20:29] building a Discord server and you want to make a paid community Through Discord go to wap.com it's the best way and they can integrate every single possible bot as a Creator I can build any software I want and so I'm picturing like a Marketplace of a hundred different app ideas that I could offer but are you saying that then within the WAP platform I have my own profile so I it's wap.com then you're on wap.com you're looking at all your favorite creators they go to Brett malow's profile on wap.com and then I have my own page and on my page I'm displaying the software tools that I

[21:02] sell my Discord Community my course platform everything that I have are those I could individually sell my softwares I could is it one bundled price like is that how I'm thinking about it you could do literally mix and mash whatever you want and so yeah all right so it's like a social media platform so I have my profile on my social media platform but then I have my own everything I'm selling as a Creator my Creator economy in one place yeah exactly imagine it's it's really social media but instead of just pictures and text and content it's software yeah similar what Twitter's trying to do but

[21:34] Twitter's very limited X I guess limited to videos and text there's nothing more but it's you over infinitely adaptable UI that you click into your Twitter profile and it's just an app do you guys are literally competing with X now because they're called the everything app yeah I think very aligned in what they're trying to do I think about different ways but um that could probably acquire you huh I have my profile this is where it's like literally the Amazon I'll make [ __ ] and then people can buy it then leave public reviews yep what other core features of Amazon are you guys have you

[22:06] thought about mimicking and implementing so we have a dispute resolution center so when things go wrong customers have a complaints before they open a credit card dispute because that's a big problem that creators face um they'll take the dispute to [ __ ] and they'll will probably mediate it and they don't have to open like Amazon free returns guarante exactly exactly so we have great customer support for consumers um Amazon has yeah we we have Affiliates um so out of the box Affiliates for all the creers to offer to not only their paying members but the same way anyone can become an Amazon affiliate anyone can

[22:33] sign up on WAP as an affiliate marketer and start um promoting companies so they could sell my products or I could just have my own cor links to distribute exactly that's so wild okay so customer support automatic affiliate links like I don't need to use a reward full or an impact or whatever that's already baked in you'll on for the customer side they get instant refunds if they don't like the product there's a review system so people can't scam on there so of course scamming goes out have you thought of any way to incorporate blockchain I'm sorry to ask but we love blockchain we think that

[23:03] just you have a world of full of AI full software you absolutely have to have a lot of the elements that blockchain um has I think that it's gotten a horrible rep unfortunately right now um because people with great technology people misuse it um we have thought about blockchain a lot I think longterm um him angle from a trust the safety angle it's going to be super important so then how does AI Loop into to the software or platform AI makes it so that everyone can sell and it boosts buy like nothing else what do you mean it means that everyone can build software and can

[23:37] therefore sell software so like five years ago you wanted to go and build an app he just pain in the ass like he he was a massive pain in the ass you couldn't really like you think about how many developers there are now compared to five years ago and that's largely due to AI do you think AI will actually build the software it'll help build software where we're starting to help our sellers with AI is stuff um internally like the product page helping write descriptions and those kinds of things and then it maybe automatically AB testing descriptions to see which one converts higher so we're starting with

[24:03] those things and then long term as AI gets stronger and the software creates gets better creators can come to W without any programming knowledge and use AI to create each software that they want to sell I'm just going to keep thinking through this so I have my profile on [ __ ] you guys will give me I can basically make a Discord but it's wops for Community Builder so there's a community builder in there there's my course right there there's a software tool that I want to add there's like a patreon essentially I guess that' be the Discord but that's my main Community stack and that's my whole

[24:38] funnel how will people Market through [ __ ] is it just going to be how Amazon has like just you search for a type of product and then people will find creators around that field are you guys going to help people like build funnels with vsls yeah so I think that there's we're going to do a lot of things that are much um different than what currently thought of as marketing tools so like funnels and all that stuff that's really great and helpful and we try to have help people build funnels on their product page but I think a much better way to approach that is by finding synergies between

[25:18] products on WAP so if you're a new seller and you built a really cool product why aren't you paired up with someone that's already actively selling that you could have synergies with so um on the for example if you're selling a course um and some other person is selling something that isn't competitive like the recommended products yeah like so recommended products but obviously you would prove that and be um okay with that and you get an affiliate deal You' get exactly and You' get a cut of that um which would help everyone because then you all of a sudden give more value to your customer you are making extra

[25:47] money and the person that previously didn't have that distribution would also be able to make the sale and that makes it so that product quality goes up because this person who previously would never been able to get their work out and actually sell and you have just an increased ticket price of whatever you're selling um that that's what I think we're most excited about and things like that as opposed to just a clickfunnels and um all the more normal landing page things I think I think it's a little bit deeper of a fix back to what you guys are going to like if I wanted to hire developer on WAP yeah why

[26:17] aren't you guys just predicting or thinking through what softwares that a Creator would want to build like why aren't you doing the same thing with how you did with sneaker flipping at the start picking one niche of Creator and then in Mr Beast example thumbnail thumbnail software or uh content creation or something like that well we're so we're releasing a lot of this new infrastructure on December 1st and with that we're frontloading a ton of apps we have a mastermind app where people can host live classes um on W where they can sell access to a month-long class let say you want to teach people how to actually run a

[26:46] podcast um it'd be more interactive thing than a course or Calendar Book and the ability to schedule time so um we are frontloading it but I think our way of getting ahead of that is a lot of the initial developers that'll be building for for creators on mop we're going to hire and we're going to offer their services for free to Creator so you could come on you could hire a developer you don't have to pay anything and that's our way of kind of jump starting the ecosystem and getting really cool ideas out there I think to also answer your question like I I think we could be

[27:10] that a lot better I think it's a really good idea I don't think we're doing that this is kind of like your new like you're just getting into the stage yeah I think we're definitely getting into the stage because I think for the first time the product is there almost there um to all the things we're describing and then it's a question of go to market and how we're actually going to do that I think what you just said is actually really good feedback that we're not really doing now uh meaning we should pick one type of vertical of software and go after that and it's well it's

[27:32] just that you are you're you literally said the core problem is people don't want to lay out their scope of Works do the Sprints put out the features and go through that whole process so I understand the idea that you want them to bring in the ideas they're not going to you so right they might bring it but they're not going to be able to see through and then they still have to pay for the developers and so it's like you might as well just pick the software that you think is the best for people to sell yep let them drop ship it and then just literally let them pick the

[27:58] template put their logo put literally like a Drop Shipping Store I think that that's actually really smart better right now we already have like a couple and you could even charge for the templates like yeah but you can you can as a as a by the time this episode comes out you will be able to go to [ __ ] pick mid journey and sell mid journey and it's your own mid Journey um with your go in is it their product it's their product are you talking about that well sorry sorry sorry no no it's not actually mid Journey it's equivalent meaning you type a prompt and it makes

[28:25] an image for you um and you can have your own your own call it Brad Journey so I was going to ask on the not the Creator side but the user side have you thought of what is give me some examples of how the user experience is better one of the things I want to do is let people who are purchasing products send them to their friends and while they're purchasing and drive the price down so there could be a messaging system yeah that'd be really cool so if you're purchasing something um I'm purchasing your product I can send it to Cameron and and if you knock a dollar

[28:59] off the price and we both purchase it um things like that I think are very well oh that's so because if you're building a community app for creators then in theory there's already messaging within that group that they're in and so they never have to leave W they can find this product come back to their [ __ ] Community it's all embedded com so it's already there yeah well well yeah totally I think like what we're going to I think encourage people to do is offer a free version of whatever product they're selling and because you're Building inside of the W Eco system you have embedded

[29:32] payments across the board all the users already have the credit cards on file so within the app you basically let them pay for additional things so for example if you're chatting and you're like hey this looks kind of cool you just press buy right there and not have to go anywhere so imagine if like TW and I know Twitter and even Instagram has trying trying to this a little bit but if you could just like go to the comment section and someone's like um hey you want to challenge me in a game real fast and when it gets $10 so you can do things like that do you have a point system like a

[30:04] rewards that's like the coolest idea ranking so we're trying to do that that that's actually one element that we are trying to build right now um so that all the experiences and all the creators have some Universal um reference to something that um like isn't siloed where you have a new you have a new point system and every single time you go to a new app it's all the universally the same um we're trying to that yeah that's a big I think a cool concept if you own the the horse lover product you can click in and see there's 50 other people who own it and then maybe rank it

[30:33] by the w point system click into a profile and see all the other products someone owns I think those kinds of things will be really so the user side you can see what the users so I'm a buyer of Mr Beast thumbnail YouTube software I'm in this community I'm in this community I own this asset I this is where nfts would come in my openc profile yes exactly and so you can not only can you see the Creator's profile that they're selling you as like their Marketplace but you could also go into each individual user see what they're into see what communities they're a part of see what assets they own digital

[31:09] assets their csgo skins there's a lot of [ __ ] to do yeah yeah that's a lot of work but you guys that's that's the 10e time Horizon obviously yeah like the vision that you pitched for like the last year and a half to your employees I think in some cases I don't think many people would say so but I think it's like world changes and makes it more evident and that helps us a lot um but I would not say so I think people it depends who you ask I guess I think some people would say we're all over the place we're super unfocused other people

[31:38] would say um we seem unfocused but may be actually kind of or pretty clear with what we want to do long term um it's just so far out that yeah I would say your long-term vision is super clear and you guys are building towards that but you might be like jump and ship like if you want to get like just the book store down and then you would like if you were solely do one vertical at a time that's where you're probably people might be saying you're a little off course but at the same time you need to build 10,000 features and it doesn't matter where

[32:08] you're building them it'll get you there eventually I would guess but ultimately if I want to join [ __ ] today what outcome would I receive like what is available right now someone's listening to this as a Creator yeah a lot of creators watch this podcast so like if I was a Creator today and I wanted to make more money yeah what what would be like the best set of Fe that you have right now to get an outcome for myself I think if you want to start making $1,000 a month as a Creator go to wob look at the templates that we already have and just pick which

[32:36] one you think you're best at um and I would recommend I think like uh discord's super easy telegram is really really easy um and start with one of those it's um that's like the best way to start so you already view those as like a software template is Discord if you want to do a paid Discord use our paid Discord template if you want to do a paid telegram use our paid telegram template what other features do you have right now templates ources files software so like notion docs basically dos your own software that you bring so if you build software you that as a template um apps trading view indicators

[33:09] trading view indicators um what are the biggest people on WAP doing right now like the most successful Niche what type of courses trading is our biggest category like stocks trading stocks in crypto stocks crypto sports betting um has been big reselling e-commerce kind of the stuff up doing but paid communities paid communities essentially but the pretty much Discord right now it's a lot of Discord think Sim to sorry to you up simar to what you said earlier about how you might have a community you might have a course you might have a calendar booking you also missed number in the patrum number five is bundling all them

[33:41] together which is kind of maybe 50% off buying all the together and that's where you generate the most Revenue as a Creator and give your audience the most your whole ecosystem in one so it's not just your paid Community pay of your course time R those kinds of things and your software all in one it's like the annual plan but all of it everything and everything is there one like big Catalyst that you think will like yeah that you like think of yeah I think we said it the other day but I think it's like on a big organization to take like imagine the NBA okay um they are selling

[34:15] a piece of software that someone built okay I would say that would be like the moment where it's like all right this so when you're looking for like a really big partner to use to to use a temp to drop ship on software imagine like when Kylie lipkit started on Shopify that was like shopify's moment where it's like all right we are able to support billion dollar Enterprises um and while we think that there's going to be a lot less of those and more for let's say like all the people that are making a million dollars a year when one person is running a billion dollar business on [ __ ]

[34:48] very very software Drop Shipping do you think that like what would a big company possibly use do you think like what would the NBA use like ticketing um so I think it'd be something element of not to sound cliche but like I want to say it um some type of ban experience that they are people are actually find um enough value to pay for and let's say you're going to uh a Suns game um what do you actually want to get for paying a little bit more to the like the first class first class maybe you get an airline yeah maybe you get exactly like what does that actually look like and

[35:24] then how do they give that experience and express that experience through software so maybe it's like if you're paying and you're in this yeah that's the theory of what nfts were supposed to be like the created Community hyper fans yeah exactly but but I think it's like Community is such a big word now and I think that what what people really want at the end of the day is like they want the status like you're talking about and they also want um it might just be status but really what that boils down to is like they want to um want to have sex they want to have sex just want to

[35:57] make money and like they want to they want to do whatever they can to get that and whatever the software is going to let them do inside the Sun's Game what they're going to pay for so when the Suns decides to use some random developers software that um shows a seat map of all the cool people and all like uh maybe all single people in in the in the um in the lower section and you can go down and maybe a couple people they have a raffle in the app but you got into the locker room after the game and um that would be really cool like I

[36:24] would pay for that um so that be what it would look like you open the app you see see chart you can look at everyone's profile you can have uh you go down to the locker room and you get extra access afterwards and the high rollers Club yeah the high rollers Club huh um but you can't obviously do that on discool you can't do that on it's like Snapchat's location sharing aspect localized Niche version of all these major social networks that is and I think the beauty of that idea is the suns are they're not really going to spearhead that they're not going to make that Happ but you could have a developer

[36:56] who's super smart who's a massive Suns fan who's going to go make this template like they they're a fan they know what the fans would actually pay for so they'll make it they'll somehow convince the Suns to use it'll happen just how kylo Jenner got on Shopify and then every other 31 NBA te can drop ship it so then you have um the bulls the bulls you have the Bulls drops the same exact experience um and put the Bulls logo in and now all of a sudden they're they're using that same software no developers needed and um works out really well for everyone it's kind of like bubble in a way of that

[37:26] aspect but no code but bubble is still you have to do so much yourself I think that's I was literally explaining someone the other day is they're like bubble's no code and I think that um the reality is you're moving code to another activity which just a different way to code and it's a it's visual coding essentially one thing that's become super apparent recently even talking to you is creators who are non-technical know exactly what they want to build that they can make a lot of money off of and there's a ton of developers like Stephen said who are really like well versed technically but they don't know

[37:58] how to Market and connecting you with the perfect developer who will help you bring your idea to reality will unlock a whole world of like newom I couldn't agree more that's why I have my partner and why I've always been resistant I'm like I got Brandon I don't I don't need W but now I totally see that you are creating a the me and Brandon partnership for everybody what's gorilla style grow it's when we were younger forums and like boots on the ground getting people to buy you didn't we didn't need a million people to buy the software we need a thousand people to buy the that's a lot different yeah I

[38:28] think to the example like we gorilla style got yeah so i' also understand what to build like Cameron knew what to build I I didn't necessarily to oh I'm like hey like what do you what's next what's next please tell me finding the problems in the field I think that's that's a lot of growth and that's what that's what growth really is yeah H okay so the drop ship software across all these different fields they have the profile for each individual company or Creator companies can have a profile too essentially yeah just like a brand and a Creator can too and the user side is just showing everything that they're a

[39:01] part of yeah that makes sense it's almost like a home screen layout pH like into every app so it's basically like looking at your iPhone home screen like if I open my iPhone I see everything but it' be this but you're in the [ __ ] app Inception home screen inside of a home screen essentially you guys going to build phones yeah the look at the eye like we can't talk about that one that's the 20 5e plan that's funny okay so that's sick I was going to ask you are you going to enable like streaming totally that's be app for that trying to build that your what there already someone

[39:37] trying to build an app for that inside of inside of w so kick or twitch could be inside of WAP we would love to partner with kicker twitch absolutely so are you trying to partner then use their apis to embed it I think it depends on on what if people are open to partner we're super down because it you'd rather do that I rather do that because why not can't build YouTube yeah yeah we're not trying to build YouTube I think like but again if they don't want to build if they don't want a partner that's also fine because it's actually not that hard to build these platforms now and that's

[40:02] not the mood anymore um software super easy some platforms that let let you do things like embed and when that happens it's actually much easier and and whenever we build video app we'll definitely use and try and make it as easy as for us to to um get it out in the short run so okay so is there going to be like a layer where people subscribe to like free content and then there's gated content as well like the like purchases what we're going to do and um that means that there's going to be actually a lot of times free versions of many apps who are selling and um you

[40:33] can just pay yeah whenever you want to unlock something no different than a game on your phone like Bike Race Pro and then everyone paid for Clash of Clans gems all that kind stuff is there like a Content feed like if I like like if is there like a follow feature like I I have my profile and people follow me follow me three okay do you see that being a thing or do you think coolest thing ever I mean we would love that like a subscription feed okay yeah of like free content have the top of funnel yeah that you're so what you're saying right now super recomendation that's

[41:01] something that I think about a lot and I do not know exactly how to approach it yet but top of funnel we don't have that necessar like you're not people and someone said us said to us the other day that they're actually they built Their audience they built a WAP company first and then they built an audience to try and push [ __ ] company right as opposed to building a big audience and then starting a w store and I think that that's like something that's great we do have to figure out how people can harness a top of funnel on [ __ ] and we've

[41:29] not figured out yet so I am love any any okay you told me something really interesting last night because you guys if you have it told these people are not normal people like it's just absurd your crackheads and all the positive ways only the positive ways but you were telling me last time about how you went to school MH and the system that you and I have never heard of that before yeah Monsur yeah so coincidentally Steven um and Hunter myself all into monosa school but how do you spell Mont n SS o r i montor schools yeah what is that so the whole concept is young kids are very they have

[42:07] a ton of intuition um they want to they see things they want to go they're very creative um the public school system kind of boxes kids in a desk it's you will read this you will learn this so um what monor school was for me at least was a little kid is thrown in a big classroom where there's a science corner there's a math corner there's a reading corner there's a whole yeah music there's a whole outdoor area with acres of land and there's no rules there's just a ton of content almost and let the kid learn what the kid wants to learn about so um I went to that school until

[42:33] about sixth grade and um hour of mandatory recess every single day where you have to go outside you have to play in nature um you literally could learn about whatever you want so whatever you're interested in a little kid there was a science corner where you could blow up volcanoes like these mock volcanoes and then with math it was no memorization it was all using with your hands moving beads on multiplication board so was very practical Hands-On learning versus sit down you will learn this ah and you always there's always these schools around I have never heard of that term before that's so interesting is it expensive is it like a

[43:02] really expensive private school system or um is that why it's like do you have to apply like you have to be smart like do they test you not definitely not some of the kids that went there you have both sides of this okay okay okay okay okay um it's an L I mean the one I went to was like somewhat of a private school it wasn't like they're all like mini private like though nothing crazy but definitely okay definitely to be able to go to them like it wasn't like a traditional Public School Lucky in the sense that you're just glad your parents did or yeah yeah

[43:32] the one I went to was like 30 minute drive both ways so an hour had and I was begging my parents to take me because I didn't really have any friends like it was so far away I couldn't drive did you know that yeah that did you well so I actually my parents pulled us out in third grade I did the same exact thing my parents we're that's funny my parents pulled us me and my brother out we were like in versus in third grade to go to the public school cuz that's where all the normal kids would go and we go for a day and we just come back balling and

[44:00] crying and they send us back to Mon it's horrible like I was so mad especially in high school like it was just unbelievable like why am I here like this is it's literally just daycare I'm pretty sure it's just daycare free day care for parents so they can go work yeah and that's why the school fund is all funded so that's where they actually like care about you at monor school my turning point was cuz the M everything we did was hands off there was no you weren't like memorizing formula so I went when I went to School you had to show your work for Math and I was

[44:28] getting all the right answers cuz I'd memorized it but I didn't know how to show my work and they kept pulling me aside for cheating just like this you never thought about working at 9 to5 you definitely didn't you dropped out at definitely everyone around me was doing so it was hard not to but um and I did a couple internships where it was like 9 to5 um I worked my first job when I was like well handing out flyers so family friend of like a window shop so I went door to door handing out like thousands of flyers for $7 an hour and I'd handle

[44:58] like got all my friends to help me for free and we were just handing out like four per it was crazy but I was in the I would go to their office and like just organized cabinets alphabetically just sitting there alone it was like so hot as well making like seven bucks an hour and then I would go hand out flyers and I made $7 an hour and I got like addicted to the idea of it and I stopped doing that and then um one of my friends was just wearing like a really cool pair of lebronze at school and I saw them and I wanted to buy them but then they were

[45:26] $300 so I was like [ __ ] can't afford that and I would bring my whole family with me to like a local mall at 4:00 a.m. and then that evolved to like buying online and going from there wow okay and then now you have [ __ ] the everything everything store that Amazon the everything store okay okay yeah but it's basically be the same thing the everything Digital Store okay wow so are your parents like exceptional people it's not are they not not are they good humans are they like exceptional result performers my dad's a doctor okay so he's smart guy yeah my mom was like a life coach and then um

[46:02] Dad was like a real estate manager so nothing like too crazy but good parents yeah okay that's I think that's important so but I feel like this montory school like kept your guys' creativity and I feel like public school races creativity racist like literally is like public school is designed to make people employees like intentionally and so it's very clear that your guys is like that makes a lot of sense to why you're able to conceptualize w at this longterm Vision so is there anything else unconventional about your guys' story that you think would be interesting to share like have you like looked back and like that's not

[46:33] something most people went through because you're not normal people I have one funny story I um I grew up in like a je hwn we had like a ton of bar MIT as we went to so um B you go to they'd give away a ton of stuff so I there was one time I went and I won this like massive stuffed animal for dancing when everyone was leaving I took the head off the stuffed animal removed the stuffing and put all the extra candy and soda that people did didn't stole it at the party and then I took it home and brought it to school and sold the couple out of my

[47:00] locker before I got in trouble for like five bucks a pop so you're a hustler yeah you're flipping you're a natural flipper oh yeah there was a cool Steve Jobs quote which is pretty much he was fascinated with like India and he spent a lot of time in India before he started Apple um and he said the West is obsessed with intellect so everyone acts based off intellect and the East is all based on intuition intuition is a lot more powerful because you don't necessarily think but it's a different kind of thinking it's very internal and um we were talking about a little bit before it's like you call mind to a

[47:26] point where just you follow your intuition and where does intuition come from like who knows but a lot more power than memorizing something in the west why did you guys choose to Bunker down in New York uh San shy one of our other co-founders were in Austin and um Steve is in New York and it was all throughout Co we kept meeting up together and working for a long period of time in person um and then W just became legitimate we had an acquisition offer um and at that point it was either this was like four or five months into W so we either going to take the acquisition

[47:52] offer go all in on [ __ ] we obviously went all in on [ __ ] and then we realize like we have we can't work remote like we have to Bunker down in person one place and we just realize the talent you just good energy and it's a big city I think it's very fast for us very intense that's definitely who we are have you had is it easy to recruit out of New York is that like a big Advantage at this point it's easier I think but but also I I would honestly I don't know I think we've never been anywhere else so it's a little bit hard to say um people

[48:17] in New York are very like so weird everyone's so full of [ __ ] in New York honestly I it's just everybody everywhere you know maybe that's it and know but New York is I I guess like the talent bar is technically maybe a higher because there's just more people choose from um there's a lot of cool companies there so I think it's cool we're also in Brooklyn so it's not like we're in the heart of it super distracting um but I think it's good I think it's nice to be in New York where do you think your obsession with work comes from because I'm like a big advocate of like having

[48:48] fun and like yeah building a business that's like good for the world but also enjoying your life going out having a social life friends doing cool things going on vacations together while doing it but you guys seem like you have like a larger Mission at play so where did that come from or why do you think that is or how do you think about it yourselves at least yeah cuz if people be like you have to work 16 hours a day I feel like you guys aren't complaining about you just like are doing it because you like doing it I think it's fun to see things to fruition and like see

[49:14] whatever you did actually have use it's just I think that's just like the human way to some extent is want to feel valued and you want to feel like whatever you're doing has impact um and for me I when I was younger I built random things and I love to just build stuff it was just fun um I built airplane like model airplanes and flew them around built a bunch of Lego stuff and um every time I did that I tried to find a practical use and tried to help someone maybe automate something and that was just really fun for me so with [ __ ] I think it's like every day we solve

[49:43] new problems and every time solve a problem I just get a ton of dope mean and I think it's just very rewarding yeah I think I think one thing after like having worked with C for so long like in the best way possible is just like an adrenaline junkie like whether it's traveling having to do the craziest stuff there's no like Sunday watching a game on a couch kind of thing it's just the constant drive and I think where it comes from is just like a lot of our upbringing being taught that we have ideas we can follow them we can really go after them I think for me like I've

[50:09] just had since a young age I've just been like passion want to do stuff I've had stuff in life happen like my mom passed away when I was 18 and like that stuff just like drives me like it's all or nothing and I think I'd rather go out trying to something massive like this 25 year vision of trying to build something really cool then we went through the phase of like making some money online and it was awesome but I think um there's more there like we want to change the world we want to do some cool stuff so at least like go out try and

[50:33] kind of why why do we want to do that I think because I think it it's like cliche but um there's not that many people that want to change the world like I've always I remember like since young age I just want to walk down the street with like a ton of cash and give it to homeless people and like that scales like I also want to start a ton amount of story schools and the one I went to was like in the mini private school so I think um there's so many people people who don't actually want to change the world that to change the

[50:59] world is still really difficult but there's not a ton of people going for it and like just go like you have a CH like I don't know why or how we got in this position but like we have a chance of doing something cool so we could either go all in or could live like mediocre lives um yeah I want to do so many different things I I like I think that I want to do things that are not possible to do without a lot of um people and resources and I think that in some ways what I'm doing right now um contributes to that and um I want to like spend a

[51:30] lot of new technologies I want to do things with aging I want to do things become invisible like I fly I want to do so many different things time travel make a phone yeah exactly I mean seriously like I think this is so many different things I want to do and explore um so this is a means to get there I I want to help you with your monasa school because wgmi that's like what I'm all about I feel Jaded by my school system and the upbringing and how horrible the business education was and how much it was how expensive it was and the narrative around so I would love to

[51:59] help you on that mission whenever you're like a giga trillionaire from W's exit in 20 years but ultimately I love this about you guys I had no idea about this this is like a really enlightening conversation for me is there anything else that you guys like like what's your day-to-day like habit system I've been trying to be on an earlier regimen so it's like wake up every day around 6 um why are you trying I used to wake up at I used to be on the night grch I used to wake up at and amm but why like why are you feeling the importance of waking up

[52:29] early yeah um I think for a while it's just the Deep work in the morning to be honest like three to three to four hours alone in the morning is insane it's like a whole another day um I think as going back to the question of like what it's like to run our company and stuff like that the days can get cloudy like you have a lot of conversations there's a lot of meeting a lot of people running around three to four hours of deep focused work I feel like it can only get in the mornings on an airplane these days like that's really cuz if you wake up at noon

[52:53] then you're getting bombarded yeah yeah I used to like start the day at 10: and then go to bed at like 1: or 2 now it's like 9 10 p.m. it's mainly because the main people in your office are up at like 9: or 10 working and they're going to have questions for you as a leader and so you want to wake up at 600 so you can do your creative work for yourself essentially ahead that makes sense yeah but keep going um I eat the same exact thing for lunch every single day I try to just have one meal a day what do you eat it's this restaurant called Spring

[53:18] buun it's a it's a chicken guac Rice Bowl three sides of Brussel sprouts and one side of chicken but I just like stack in one meal how much how I don't know no idea but you just eat one big meal yeah one big meal eating is like the downfall of productivity I found out that's why I just do yeah trying to push it off until like the afternoon okay that's interesting and what's it called uh spring bone it's really let's see if they have an affiliate think um then finish the day working and then I try we have like a mini bathtub in our house I

[53:47] try to do like an ice bath before bed and a little bit of meditation Jal go to bed every day that's it yeah okay and then just work yeah no other everything in between that just work yeah is and is the ice bath at that time because it like might like wake you up in the middle of the day I just look I had I started it when I do it at night so I do it right before bed but U really yeah why I don't know why but well I started I I love working out I had hip surgery a little bit ago and I

[54:13] wasn't able to work out so that was like the next best thing just to like I don't know is there anything else that you guys think is like important right now even like societally since you're trying to make a change in the world what are you seeing I think I was talking to someone recently who said that their father stay at a company for 27 years like 10 year everything and that was normal that's what you do you go to company forever and then nowadays when we're looking when we're hiring people and stuff like that the longest I usually see someone that place is like four to five years so on St point I

[54:41] think the hopping around doesn't you don't get a ton of value from that like by staying in a company for 27 years you can get value from that or but like staying it a couple years I think it's either like people should find something their pastor about for a long time or similar to the path all of us have been on start a [ __ ] ton of businesses online like just try stuff out um and at least like give yourself a shot instead of doing these things for a couple years I think this is where we're turning to the gig economy where it's like you don't

[55:04] have to start your own business but you can sell your time to multiple companies just take your freelance skill to the market essentially like glorified fiber but more no middleman you don't need the middleman and just be known for what you're doing and then make a profile on [ __ ] showcase what you got and then people can almost hire you have you consider that's an interesting idea do you guys have anything like that like the Developers hiring developers and WAP is just one example of service Riders you can hire so you'll be able to hire designers accountants leers gig economy gig economy and Fiverr but actually and

[55:35] you'll have a reputation score and make your portfolio that was sick I I get it for hit me what what drives you I like I get genuine fulfillment from helping people understand something like like I love being able to communicate the most in as few words as possible and then I can read people's body language really well and I can see what they're not understanding so like I'll watch two people talk and I can they're like talking back and forth and I can be like this person doesn't understand this point this person doesn't understand this point and I can just step in one sentence everyone's on

[56:06] the same page and so teaching people business and how to think about it is just something I naturally do with everyone around me and so that's what I found I genuinely like doing and that's why I think my YouTube channel does well so same with this podcast like I just don't prepare like my whole strategy is don't prepare at all and then just follow my curiosity so yeah wanted to make money like when I was 22 23 I'm like I want to be rich and then that didn't solve anything so that's what I found like the main driver has been and what will be for the rest of my life so

[56:33] I really aligned with what you guys are doing wap.com they're official now four-letter domain it's a good name it makes sense all right Punchy everybody watch the podcast over like four times because they talk really fast but this is going to be super cool if you're a Creator start looking in the [ __ ] you can build everything you can drop ship your software and ultimately it's going to be the best way to make money for you in the next five years so get that real estate now

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