# Your Answer Engine Optimization Guide

Channel: The Next New Thing
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kHE2tFa050
Duration: 41 min
Language: English
Words: 7632
Transcript page: https://viewrankai.com/tools/youtube-transcript/5kHE2tFa050

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[0:00] We have learned that AI has influenced one in four of the sign-ups that are coming into Zapier right now. I'm going to show you Andrew how our influencer is driving AI responses in Gemini. Let's do a screen share. We want to show you how this works and how anybody can take a crack at this. I'm excited for you to see this. I'm seeing more and more that customers are signing up to products because of what they saw on a ChatGPT or a Claude or Perplexity answer. The question is, how do you get your company to be one of the answers on there? And most people are playing at this in small

[0:34] scale. Zapier is going huge. From what I understand, over 100,000 people a month are signing up to Zapier because of some kind of AI influence. And so they've been running a lot of tests, which you're going to see over here. Um and they've learned a lot and they agreed to share the most impactful moves that

[0:52] they've made. Let's get started. Carl, let's start with Reddit. Reddit, I know is a big influence on AI answers. Can I see an answer that comes in from Reddit? Okay, this is one from ChatGPT. Yes. Um so we prompted ChatGPT to say to answer, "What does Reddit think of Zapier?" Of course, this is not something that um a user would ask really, but we wanted to just show you what type of threads are being cited within LLMs. And so in this case, we see

[1:26] this specific thread that's from Reddit. And you'll see that it's from 2 years ago. And that's something that we've learned from Reddit. Actually, what it's doing is that it's looking at not recency, but instead it's the opposite. We invest in depth and in patience because Reddit shows up multiple days or even months later in LLMs. That's because usually um LLMs wait for a couple of days or time for moderators to clean up their conversations and then for them to

[1:58] ingest all of that data for training. And so what we do is just show up for our community. I'll show you here some examples where we engage in thoughtful conversations. Um this is one example uh within our own subreddit where we're uh starting conversations around use cases. And so that's very helpful for us to engage with our community to see where they're struggling, what are the

[2:23] things that they want to automate. Another example right here is for another subreddit where we think uh Zapier users and our ideal customers are hanging out. And so we want to talk about topics. Here you'll see Zapier Dave's account. We want to talk about topics that we think are important for our users right now. In this case, lay- layoffs in the US because of AI. We're also talking about MCP. We launch We launched our MCP. You'll see here that we have our Zapier Dave account chatting about that. So we're just showing up for our community organically. But then there's other times where we're also going to our to to Reddit to change

[3:04] perception. We think that Reddit is a particularly interesting and important place for us because we can give or tell a fuller story of what Zapier can do, what we can automate, what business cases we can solve. We can talk about governability, security, and all of that is reflected there because it's a place where we can engage organically as I mentioned. So um here you'll see, let me pull the question is. It's AI automation for

[3:31] beginners. Uh oh, what uh what tools do you all actually or what tools are you all actually using for automation work? And this is on the automation channel, and that's not a comment. It's not a post that you posted. It's someone else, and you're coming in and responding to it. Correct. And here we're saying we're

[3:49] Well, here we are. We cost $20 a month. And for small businesses, that's all you might need. But then, if you actually are an enterprise, you get all of the governability and security, and it's pricing that is very much up front. We don't have hidden fees, we don't have any charges for self-hosting, and so this is where we really can dive

[4:14] into our value proposition. And you want this then to appear as an answer to somebody else's question in an LLM. Um let me take a look at at what you're doing here. One thing is Dave has Zapier in his name. You're intentionally being clear that Zapier is giving this response. Is Dave an actual person or is Dave a community

[4:35] account owned by by Zapier? It's a community account, but it's actual people going in there and commenting. And we want to be very transparent that this is someone that belongs to Zapier. Um I think that's important to to build trust within our community, and you'll see that we have positive karma, and we honestly like know that a lot of our views are going to be skewed, and we're very up front about it, but we also want to show up in those conversations. I love that this is

[5:04] actually created on August 7th, 2025. So, it's less than a year old as we're looking at now. Let's take a look at a little bit more. If you come back to one of the questions that you showed us before, the the one that you had asked from the Dave account. Let's just see if we can understand the thought process

[5:18] behind that. Yeah. Is this one? Okay. What's your go-to automation for lead management? It's because you know that people are going to ask about automating lead management in ChatGPT, in Claude, in Gemini, and so you said, "Okay, we're going to come in here, we're going to ask this question, and you first of all, how do you know that this is a question that's going to come up, or are you just saying this is a question we'd like to come up and be the

[5:44] answer for? I think it's both ways. Uh we know that lead management is an important use case for our community. When we look at our internal data, we see a lot of workflows and automations to send leads from um you know, your CRM to the sales team um to expedite overall the sales process. And so, we know that's important. And we also know that a lot of people now are wondering how they can make that process better. So, um we definitely wanted to show up in those conversations to show what are some of the examples in which people are automating these things. And you'll see that we've got 11 comments. Uh the

[6:22] community is engaging. And um it's I think a two-way impact in terms of building the community on Reddit, but then this specific thread being cited in LLMs and associating lead management with Zapier. All right, I see the Zapier dev account going in and engaging with people. Do you also come in and answer it with the way that you would like the answer to

[6:44] show up on uh ChatGPT, etc.? Yeah, I think we try to be as natural as possible, honestly, but we do have guidelines on our positioning and how we want to be showing up. Um let me see if there's another example here, but um here you'll see like a very natural example about AI automation for beginners. And the way we respond is um just like play around with it. You first need to get to to have a taste of uh the

[7:11] amazing things you can do with AI tools. And then once you're a bit more familiar with the with the basics, explore other prompts. So, this is more organic um I want to say engagement. Um but the other example that I showed, this one, sorry. Uh this one. Um you'll see that here we're talking This is a very actually a very What's What's the question at the top before we go into the answers? Okay. Why

[7:40] is Zapier not used more often?" Okay. And you'll see that Let me see if Dave Dave's account. The reason I'm starting with Reddit is because from what I understand, Reddit is the easy win here. You don't have to have video production like you will for YouTube. You don't have to do a lot of work. You do need to be engaged with your community, but it is easier to do, and then the payoffs are fairly quickly. Janine, am I right about that understanding that the Reddit payoff is faster maybe than the

[8:11] others? It can be. I think Reddit is one of those things that's just really tricky. It It's like you can go in, you can do a whole bunch of stuff. If you're too self-promotional, you can get penalized for it. Um it's a little bit more capricious, I think, in terms of like because it's a huge community of people that you're engaging with. There's so

[8:30] many places you could choose to engage. And because it's such an enormous, um platform, it's also a little bit harder to understand exactly what might be the thing that influences a model to change the way that it's responding. So, it's the kind of thing where like if we are seeing that an old thread is showing up as a citation, going in, engaging with the old thread might help make there be better information around that old thread if it continues to be something that is being cited, but it is maybe a little bit more challenging to think about it as like a first-line If I start conversations like this on

[9:08] Reddit, I know that it will get cited. So, the the things where we go in and engage with older posts feel like us making sure that And this is something we haven't talked about yet, but one of the things that Zapier has both like as a positive and a little bit of a challenge sometimes is that we've been around for a while. Like we have over a decade of history on the internet about like what we are, what we do, and that's been changing a lot. The last few years, we have really shifted our positioning. We've launched new products. So, if Reddit is pulling something or if like an LLM is pulling

[9:43] something from 3 years ago, 5 years ago, and saying this is what Zapier is, like that's not what Zapier is. So, it's really important for us to make sure that we are updating that positioning in as many surfaces as we can. Um and I think that for me is one of the the things that's really interesting about working with Reddit and doing some of the offsite marketing efforts that we're doing in addition to what we're doing internally. So, we can position Zapier however we want to on our own website, but sometimes um the volume of what's out there from other people is so big that we need to engage in those different

[10:20] channels just to make sure that we are getting things pulled into place where we can. I see. So, and we're going to talk more about that about positioning later, but part of this is you changing the position and making sure that people see that you're not the hobbyist software anymore. You are the dependable enterprise trusted software, and that needs to come in. Okay. What What are

[10:37] you showing here, Carola? It's an example of exactly that. So, the question he's asking in the automation subreddit, why does anyone still use Zapier? And then what we replied is our new positioning. We bring the insider perspective. We're saying we have a lot of advantages, and we used to have these SMB perception, and now we're actually building our whole our whole product around enterprise. And so, we're able to talk about that reliability, auditability, uh security. And um that's some of the things that that we can really expand and elaborate on here and hear about our community as well and their feedback and how they're responding to our new

[11:18] features. Okay. All right. Anything else on this before we go on to YouTube? No. think so. All right. YouTube I'm noticing is another really big influence on LLM's, especially for Gemini and especially within the Google searches AI answers. So, here's an example of a search that somebody did. Advanced Gmail tips. So, you do a search for that.

[11:44] What are we looking at? Yes. So, we actually this is part of a test that we run. We saw that Zap that we had we launched Zapier AI tutorial for beginners video and it was performing pretty well in LLM's and in search for anyone looking to get started with AI. So, then we asked, "Can we do something similar like a tutorial style video with a popular partner app that we support?" So, we partner with here Kevin's Stratvert. He's a big influencer. You'll see here that he has 4 million subscribers. And we asked him to create a video around five Gmail tips and tricks where we showcase Zapier use

[12:23] cases. And the video got 48,000 views and it really owned the conversation. Not only within AI overviews as you see here, but also within the Google search results. This was when we first launched the the video. It was around Christmas time as you'll see here, but I just made a search. I'm in Italy and I was able to find the video still there. So, we know that whenever we're pulling big influencers, it's for more competitive topics like Gmail, like email automation and that really pays off. But something like I'm going to show you the other side of we have this other video. It's not associated to Zapier. It's talking

[13:05] about Zapier versus Make. It's a relatively small channel, 18,000 subscribers, only 835 views. And yet when I go to see my LLM performance for Zapier versus Make, you'll see that these exact video is taking 6% of our citation share. So, you'll see that there's no clear correlation between viewership, number of subscribers, and um like impact or influencing LLMs. And that's something that we've learned and we've tested with, and now we are very much intentional in how much we invest in what influencers we engage with based

[13:43] on the topic and how competitive it is. I see. Okay, I wouldn't have thought that the smaller players, especially someone who only has 800 views on a video, would be that impactful. How intentional can you be? And we we agreed that we wouldn't talk about um specific people that you work with it unless we got their their permission to be included in this video, but do you go out of your way to reach out to them to educate uh smaller influencers? Do you

[14:09] send them anything? Do you pay them? What do you do to connect? Yes, we do have a big um influencer reach. We are working with thousands of them every month, I want to say. We educate them. A lot of them are avid Zapier users, and I think that's what we really love because they really get to talk about our product. They also have tried other products, and so they're they give a very um I want to say like uh transparent POV on different tool comparisons. And that's something that we've really invested in last year, and we will continue to do so this year. Again, because we know that

[14:44] recency is important. We know that Google especially likes newer YouTube content. And so we cannot just create uh hero video and hope that it stays there forever. We need to keep a very much active cadence of publishing. Okay. This this seems harder. I get the the pay a big influencer, partner with them, have them do a video based on a topic you need. Super easy. Smaller one feels a little scary because you need to go and reach out to so many small players and help them understand and then create videos, but I get the impact that it has. Um and you and I have talked about how it's especially

[15:23] powerful for Gemini. Anything else on on this before we move on? Um, one of the things that I've noticed a little bit with these and is that, um, and we do this with written content that we produce as well, where we can identify, um, topics or terms that we think are important and working with smaller folks or writing articles for us kind of helps

[15:44] us pressure test those terms as well. Like, is there something that happens with it? Can we see something that happens? Do we understand what the impact might be? Um, and it's a little bit easier to move quickly if you have kind of a a group of people that you're working with where the level of investment or like the momentum to get something moving is a little bit, um, less than if you're trying to move something huge. Um, and we see that with, um, kind of across content production streams where the faster you can test things, the more you can learn quickly

[16:15] with it. Okay, let's go to positioning work. Janine, do you want to show your screen for that? Yeah, absolutely. All right. Set us up. We're talking about positioning. You all have changed your positioning at Zapier over the years from where to where and now let's talk about how you can change perception online. Yeah, so, um, I've been at Zapier for more than 6 years at this point. So, I feel like when I started Zapier was just the like I say just as if like this was nothing, but it was really a big deal in, you know, whenever 2020, 2019 when I started where you could kind of

[16:48] set up these automations with We I think we had 5,000 apps on the platform when I started and we're at more than 8,000 now. Like, where you could create these automations that would go something happens in this place and then you can make a whole series of actions happen from that single trigger. Um, and the company that I worked at

[17:08] before Zapier used Zapier as a product. So, this was something that I had already experienced the value of and was really, um, kind of bought in on it being valuable. So, we were finding at that time that there were a lot of people that were using us who were, um, like we would call them kind of early adopters. They were who liked playing around with tech, like they wanted to try it out. Um, it was people who liked to tinker and they wanted to figure these things out and improve the way that they worked. It was a lot of, um, like process automation and systems thinking. And that's what we

[17:39] saw people doing. Um, and then and it was a lot of like people automating work for themselves or smaller companies. It was a lot of that. And this, like our, um, the way that we talked about Zapier was kind of like how easy it was to use it and how quick it could be to set something up that would drive real value. And then, um, over the years we kind of saw that there were a lot of people that were doing a lot more complicated things with Zapier driving really, like, incredibly valuable processes, making it so that people could do a lot more complicated things with the product. We started to launch

[18:14] additional products. So, we have, um, instead of only the workflow platform, now we have an MCP server, we have agents, we have chatbots, we have tables, we have forms that you can create on Zapier. You can build these entire systems within Zapier to do, like, fully automated end-to-end processes with humans in the loop where you need them. Um, and we've been adding on additional, um, features that we know larger companies need to be able to protect things coming with, like, governance so that your IT team can make sure that only the right people have the right permissions to do all the things. So, that kind of a shift

[18:48] means that we have a very different audience that might want that Those types of things matter to different people. So, when people would start writing about us, say, 4 years ago, even a year ago, if somebody wrote about Zapier, they may not have known all of the different things that were going on. So, as we started looking at, um, like how Zapier was talked about in LLMs, um, we were seeing that there were a lot of people that were still talking about us as this like simple, good for small businesses, do these tiny little things platform, and that's just not who Zapier is anymore. So, we wanted to try to find

[19:24] ways to influence that. So, we would look at places that um were coming up in citations just like Cara was mentioning with the Reddit threads where maybe it was something like sometimes it was a big publication, sometimes it was small, but if it was showing up in our citations, we um believed that it was worth trying to get that positioning updated so that if that same article was being called in the future, the LLMs would be able to understand that the positioning was changing if anybody clicked on on that link to follow the citation, they would see updated accurate information about our company. So, I'm going to show you

[19:56] one of the um articles that we reached out to this publication and said, "Hey, we've changed since you wrote this. What do you think about updating it?" And they said, "Yes." So, So, this is the way that the site used to look. Yes. So, this is from uh not that long ago. So, just May of 2025 is when this version was out in the world. Um, so if you scroll down, there's a comparison table that's pretty um clear in terms of where they're doing things. So, it talks about beginner-friendly, a simple setup. It's talking about basic logic, filters, paths. It's got um some basic support for data handling. If

[20:32] you scroll down a little bit more, it talks about some of our like big AI integrations that are on there. Um the scalability where it's like simple workflows across teams, which just isn't quite what we know to be true about our product right now. Um, and if you scroll down a little bit more, um the kind of best for section where it talks about marketing teams, non-technical users, good for getting a quick win. Like that is true. Like those things are all true, but it's not the full story about what

[21:02] our product does and can do. Um, so if you go to the updated version, and we'll kind of walk through the same it's this table just really gives a good summary of what's different. It talks about our platform type being an AI orchestration tool for businesses of all sizes. It's still beginner-friendly. It's accessible for non-technical users. It also if you look at like the workflow complexity section here, it's talking about how it scales well. It's got branching and looping and logic. Way more detail and information there. It has the updated integration number there. 8,000 apps, which is what you were saying before. Yeah, it's got how many AI

[21:39] integrations, so more than 450 AI integrations are on our platform. The scalability talks about how it's great for scaling complex cross-system workflows across enterprises. It's best for enterprise businesses who want to enable all of their departments to do things. So, like this is a much more up-to-the-minute description of what Zapier can for a company versus being something that's really talking about how we talked about ourselves, you know,

[22:06] in like four or five years ago. So, this is the kind of thing that we're doing and it it's a kind of manual process in a lot of ways. Like we're looking for which places get cited, figuring out where there's a gap in what we could change and then reaching out to those publications and kind of saying, "Hey, by the way, we've changed. Here's

[22:24] some new information. What do you think? Would you be willing to update your article for us?" And sometimes they say yes and sometimes they say, "We'll look at it later." Which is honestly the same answer that we give people if they reach out to us and say, "Hey, by the way, you've got an article on your blog that's not quite as current with our positioning as we'd like it to be." And sometimes we look at it and say, "You're right. We need to update this." And we do. And other times we say, "We'll take a look at it the next time this article is

[22:50] slated for review." So, we're happy to engage with people like this. It's but it's been really a nice way to see this to see this shift and to know that when we're seeing these articles get cited um, that there's a better, more accurate picture of what we can do. This is the kind of stuff that, uh, people have done for years for SEO, and you're saying it's also effective now for LLMs to do it. I'm wondering, is there anything different for LLMs? Like, what I'm understanding is these kinds of comparison tables are really helpful for them because they're trying to understand comparisons, too. Am I right

[23:22] about that? Yeah, um, and we know that we know that people are using LLMs to help them research stuff. Like, I use LLMs to help me research certain types of things. Um, and that's a very natural way to kind of go in and, um, and figure out like what is really going on with things you're choosing between. So, you might ask like We also see this with the traffic that comes into our website. So, um, Zapier's editorial content strategy, what we consider our content marketing arm, um, if you're not familiar with the Zapier blog, um, we write a lot about apps, about the software people use at work. Um,

[24:06] so, the at the top left, there's a little drop-down that says app picks. If you go to the app comparison section, like, for example, we are writing about those same exact kinds of articles. So, like, you saw that Zapier versus Make. Like, we write about that for all kinds of apps that people use at work. Um, and we write these because people look for those terms on search. We've done this kind of this kind of writing for

[24:32] Yeah. years and years and years. We are finding that people who are coming to our site from an LLM. So, we are getting a referred visit from ChatGPT or from, like, Anthropic's Claude, from all of those types of places, Perplexity. Those visits are often coming in to content pages. They are coming into articles like this or coming into our best apps articles, because people are in those systems going, "What's the best image generator that I can find for AI?" Or, "How does HubSpot compare with [clears throat] Mailchimp for marketing things?" Like, all of those kinds of articles, uh all that kind of information and those conversations are happening within

[25:11] LLMs. So, if we are writing primary source material that is well-researched, based on user testing, describes what we are finding about these different platforms, those articles get cited. And if someone wants more than the LLM is giving them, they can click on those links and that's where they land. So, we know that if we're seeing that kind of um traffic into our site, that other places that are writing about Zapier in that same kind of way are probably also seeing that. So, that's why it's really important for us to kind of navigate that. It's different from search in that you need to provide more context. So,

[25:46] for search, um keywords are often really brief. They're like tiny little phrases, um and it can be there's so much more information available for search, like what keywords are trending, what you can get so much from Google Search Console and other apps that are out there that monitor this kind of traffic and citations and backlinking and all of those things. And that stuff just

[26:09] doesn't exist really for LLMs just yet. There are a couple of companies that are kind of coming on board that are letting people do this analysis, but it's not coming directly from the source the same way that you can get with like Google Search Console. So, we are sort of building this almost by inference a little bit. So, we can go in and run prompts in places using these tools and say, "Okay, we want to understand

[26:33] all of this information about Zapier." And we put in things we think align as much as we think we can with what people are likely to be searching, but we don't get that like primary source data the way that we do with search terms. Um so, I think it's there's a lot of overlap and similarities in terms of how you can approach this for um search and LLM's, but it's just it's just a little

[26:56] different. There's more context needed. Um, formatting can be a little bit different. Um, Okay. What parts of the pages are most important can be a little different, too. Okay. I The The other thing that I'm learning from this is something that you had said to me before is it's not like people are just immediately coming from an LLM and signing up to Zapier. They are just getting to know us through some of these answers. And so what you're saying is this could be an example of it. Like Can you go back a page? There was ActiveCampaign versus Mailchimp as an

[27:28] example or something like that. Yeah. Uh, There it is. It's literally ActiveCampaign versus Mailchimp is the example. Someone might search for this. They come over to this site to get a little bit more insight. They see maybe Zapier as a cited source. They don't immediately say that now I need to sign up for Zapier, but they get to know Zapier through this. That's what you were saying earlier. Yeah. Okay. I I just want to mention like it's more like a top funnel effort and it's all about like associating Zapier with our partner apps, but also with the ecosystem that we're in. And that's going We can move

[28:03] now to the next topic if that works. That is like our surveys. Yeah, let's talk about surveys. Yeah, we're running surveys with enterprise users to understand how AI is impacting their work. We know that AI is now a buzz term, but it's also something that is impacting our day-to-day and our tasks and what's expected of us as workers. So, we want to be thought leaders in this space and we want to be associated with AI and automation. And that's part of why we're running these these type of surveys. So, this is one survey that we run. It's about AI workflow. So, we found that users spend 3 more hours per week cleaning up

[28:46] AI work that, you know, perhaps at the first glance it looked great and then it it had issues that had to be reviewed. So, we have some findings here and of course we're publishing these in our blog, but also we are pitching these through our PR agencies and we are getting some of these um of these surveys being picked up and being

[29:07] references referenced by tier one media. This is an example of TechCrunch. You'll see that they're actually um citing and referencing our survey. If we uh search here for Zapier, they're actually um referencing the the numbers that we found and again, we're able to position Zapier as this thought leader in the space. I see. You survey your users and sometimes you use outside parties to do the surveys. You publish the data on your site, others pick it up, LLMs pick it up also in their answers when they're trying to when they're trying to support what they've said with data and all of

[29:44] this also feeds in SEO at the same time. Do I have that right? One other thing to just note with some of these surveys, we are surveying not just Zapier users, but people like the Right. public. So, it's not limited only to um folks that are within the Zapier like customer or user base. It's kind of folks all over the place. So, we're getting a really wide um

[30:09] set of responses. Do you then go to sites like we're looking at TechCrunch and share this with them so that they publish it? That's right. Yeah, we're pitching we're sharing like the the what we like the material that we create, the findings that we have and they pick it up and decide what to publish and not. So, when we think about our offsite work, right now Zapier's content efforts are 50% of them are going to offsite surfaces. That includes YouTube, that includes Reddit, but also these tier one media like TechCrunch, like um you know, the Wall Street Journal, like those are CNN. Our CEO was there

[30:48] recently. Um we want to be at the mirror because those are the sources that LLMs are also referencing or um going to to form the responses. So, we want to be in there. But then the other area of offsite is that more like independent low authority uh sources that Janine just mentioned that we reviewed like in this case, this table right here, um where even if they're not like high authority, they're still being picked up by LLMs. So, we know that we want we we need to play both fronts of tier one media, yes, and perhaps the effort there um easy then gives a better return

[31:28] because it's like like the number of tier one media is reduced, the number of independent publications is infinite, and we're doing a lot of automation there to make sure that we can expedite that process, but we do we know that we got to play both fronts. Okay. One thing Janine that you talked about before is there is no data, you have to infer a lot of this. There isn't a site where you can go and say how much traffic are we getting for this question, what other questions should we be running, and and you're a very data-driven company. It is frustrating, but there are some tools that you're

[31:59] using. Introduce me to some of the tools that you're using to do this type of GEO work. Yeah, um so we started really using a tool called Profound, um and that's a tool that um Caro has done the most work to set this up, but it allows us to kind of provide a set of prompts that we think are important for Zapier, and it runs those prompts across a bunch of AI models and lets us see things like what is being cited, whether it's a Zapier site or another website for like citations for those for those answers. We are able to see what the answers are that are being

[32:41] provided for the questions we're asking. We can see our visibility share, so how often is Zapier mentioned in answers for things like if somebody were to put in if if we were tracking a prompt like um how can I automate lead management? We'd be able to see how often is Zapier referenced as a potential [snorts] answer like in any answer for that. We can also see how often is it cited, what pages get cited by the answers that we are running the profound is running on our behalf to the prompts that we tell profound to run for us, which is where it's a little bit um

[33:13] it's a little bit just kind of this closed system where we tell profound to run a bunch of prompts. It runs the prompts. We review the way that those prompts are answered and what information is there. Um we are also working with a company called Petra Labs. Um and it does a lot of similar um similar stuff in terms of metrics. And part of why we're using a bunch of tools right now is so that we can understand what gives us the best information and whether they're the same. Um and I haven't spent as much time with Petra um Petra's platform as profound at this point. Um Carl, do you want Is there

[33:49] anything that really is differentiates between the two of those in terms of the analytics provided? I think Petra is a bit more customizable. They're uh listening to what we need in terms of reporting. We want to have an easy way to track the different segments and prompts that we are running uh simulations for, like what are the best automation tools? We need to see whether Zapier being mentioned is changing week over week. Um as an example, last week open open AI frontier just launched, right? It's huge for agents. It was There was a lot of buzz around it. We track as Zapier because we have agents

[34:23] also, we track prompts around AI agents. And I noticed this week, of course, our visibility decreased because TechRadar and Forbes and all of these tier one publications were chatting about OpenAI frontiers launch. So, um those are the the type of changes that we're able to track. And then, you just uh saw that we actually launched a blog post about uh Zapier and AI frontier because we want to be part of that conversation, too, and increase Zapier's visibility. So, that is a very recent example of how these tools enable us to make decisions and track performance in how often Zapier is mentioned and how it is

[35:03] mentioned. Okay, let's look at the last one, Amplitude. What do you use Amplitude for? We've used Amplitude for a while. It provides us some sort of like mhm customer journey funnel type metrics that allow us to visualize the user journey. Um they added at some point last year some um AI visibility monitoring tools that are

[35:24] kind of included in having Amplitude. Like, if you've got Amplitude, you can get access to this. So, if you scroll down, there is a visibility graph that gets shown um a little bit farther down, I think. This one. So, they provide things like this where we are able to see um like this is a screenshot of their own mentions. But, when we look at our version of this, it shows us against the competitors that we've outlined. Um one of the things that I really liked when I was setting Amplitude up is that they kind of did a little bit of that research for you and kind of provided

[35:58] suggestions. So, like, here's who we think your competitors are. Which of these would you like us to track? Which is a little bit less manual of a setup. They also provided certain um prompts that they suggested. Um there's I don't think you can click through. I think this is just a screenshot as opposed to something that's interactive. But, there are they provide this really nice like grid where you can see your visibility compared to competitors

[36:20] visibility. Um and so, for Zapier, there are things where like we have um a lot of information on our site about CRMs. We write about those kinds of apps a lot. You can create a CRM with Zapier, like if you need a really simple one to get stand up, you know, in a day, you can do

[36:35] that for us. Um, HubSpot, for example, also is a CRM. So, if there's a place where tracking things like CRM, Zapier's share of visibility for CRM is much lower than HubSpot's. And like that is an example of information that we can look at and say, we shouldn't outrank HubSpot for CRM. Like that is what HubSpot is. We are not a CRM. So, it makes sense that like our visibility for that topic would

[37:01] be lower than HubSpot's. But, it would be um, like we would consider it to be strange if like HubSpot outranked us for something like um, I don't know, Zapier tables. Um, where like so there are things like that that we could look at and say, this is a place that we want to figure out like why we are performing better or worse against another company for a specific topic. Um, and you can track the visibility over time, see how that changes, the way that Cara was talking about AI agents and with the

[37:29] launch of Frontier and things like that. Like there are times when we will see our visibility go up for something, maybe because we've launched a product or because somebody talks about us in an interesting way, and then we might see it drop back down again, or maybe there's a lot of competition for a term all of a sudden because people are writing about something because it's

[37:45] new. And so we might drop, but then I would expect that we would see that kind of come back up again. Um, in a little while, just kind of with the news cycles changing the way that they do. And this stuff is news right now. Like that's one of the things that like a lot of the time app reporting isn't really news. Like the New York Times doesn't necessarily write about like developments with tech all of the time like on the minute scale. Um, but right now with the way that AI is and how kind of present it is in everybody's consciousness, we're seeing more kind of a in and write about things that

[38:23] there were fewer people writing about those for a while. Can I just add something about reporting for me? As you like probably we we use different tools, but all of them I think will show similar with different visibilities or like different visuals some more helpful than others. All of them will show similar things. So my recommendation is to go with the tool that perhaps is the cheapest or the most established because we know there's so many new vendors that might disappear

[38:52] tomorrow. Um and also go for those that are thought that are thought partners. For us Petal Labs has been an amazing thought partner and Cast provided a lot of great consultation services and that's something that we really value. And when it comes to also reporting I think it's not only about visibility like this example right here, but also about complementing reporting with internal survey on users and also with attribution because each of them tell a very partial story about what's going on in LLMs and we just need to look at all of them to form a holistic narrative and um action on different things that we think

[39:30] might change performance and improve it. Um so this is whenever someone logs in Zapier, you might see this how did you hear about a survey uh where the user is able to check uh how they heard about Zapier. We see that 40% of users click here AI tools. And so that's something that is helpful for us to understand okay, are we actually moving the needle in discovery? Are we bringing new people into our site that perhaps heard about Zapier in ChatGPT? They didn't click on the link right there, but they just went to Google, search Zapier, landed on our site and then click here AI tools. So

[40:09] those are the the the the additional type of insights that we need to get to really understand the impact. Okay, I see I see this as a young emerging field. When I talk to people who do SEO and GEO professionally, what they tell me is if you have to start with one, start with GEO. It's newer, it moves faster, you can have more impact, and you're not competing against people who are so experienced the way that they are with SEO that it's it's a competition of the best of the best in the world. The downside is it is still a lot of experimenting. It is still a lot

[40:47] of try and learn. I love that I got to learn from you because you all have had so much experience doing this over the last uh it's been a couple of years where you've where you've experimented and tested methodically. Thanks for coming on here and showing all this. Thank you for having us.

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