# The Most Valuable Retention Marketing Video You’ll Watch in 2026

Channel: Max Sturtevant
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-vRVccKOa0
Duration: 1 hr 25 min
Language: English
Words: 18973
Transcript page: https://viewrankai.com/tools/youtube-transcript/1-vRVccKOa0

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[0:00] Why are these guys going from 5,000 subscribers to 100,000 subscribers in 6 months? They're probably deceiving the customers. A customer that's going to buy from a subscription versus just take onetime purchase is three times as valuable to us. Three times. So our average LTV is about $750. Wow. On a beverage. We're almost 4 years old.

[0:17] Mhm. Bro, no one does this. We get that a lot. Like a lot of brands coming in. It's just like, "Do you guys use AI for your coffee?" We just tell them straight up like, "Yeah, approve it or don't. If you don't like it, then maybe we could look at it." And then they always like it. It's better than human. The reason why subscription programs and brands work so much is because they try to convince you the benefit that you're about to have and the feeling you're get

[0:34] is going to be immediate. So how much more valuable is a customer if their first order is a subscription compared to a customer if their first order is just a one-time placed order? So for Bree specifically like a customer that's going to join on subscription like look there's you and I can go deep into like sometimes it's not good to get a certain type of subscription which we ran into trouble earlier but generally speaking a a customer that's going to buy from a subscription versus just take onetime purchase is three times as valuable to us

[1:03] three times. So we have like we when we have when we have non-cash cash flow issues we're buying into a three-month LTV which is at least 320 bucks. So like that was what we were requiring customers for up until what kind of happened in like last year which I've I've told you about in the past but this is like you can go too much into subscription optimization. You can be like yo I want my take rate to be 90%. And then all of a sudden you're like why is it 90? You have to you just

[1:31] have to start asking these questions. You don't want too many people taking the offer because it is a too good or how deceptive are you going to be? Like why are they subscribing so fast? So, I I think it's it's a balance of you want the right amount of people subscribing. And for us, like I'll pull it up on on a week- toeek basis because there's only way to really track it if you go daily. Feel like that's a little excessive because

[1:53] too much change happens. But if I'm looking at my current take rate, and it will fluctuate, my current take rate week over week sits like 65 to 75%. Wow. Wow. I feel like that's really high for a beverage brand as well. I think so too. I think the cuz then you talk to like what is the offer? Like how do you structure this? It's always usually discounted like that. And we don't actually have a great welcome offer because when you get to like the everyday doses or the boys

[2:22] I bet those are at least 80 plus%. Yeah. I mean a lot of them are subscription only as well. Um but a lot of them Yeah. Crazy. Ridiculous. And you guys just do like dollar off percent off or how do you how do you think about that? We do. We have We've actually split tested this on the welcome flow pretty aggressively. We used to be percentage off and then we went basically ours is like a $5 mystery

[2:42] mystery. Yeah. Always, right? Yeah. Of course. It's always a mystery. It gets you. But it kind of is five bucks. Yeah. Exactly. It works. So we we've tested dollar off versus percent off. And we do it on the PDP is percent on the pop-up is dollar off, but it's generally just a flat flat number. And we we've walked that walked that back cuz dude when we launched you didn't even know this when we launched the subscription pro program two years now. We were like 25% off and shipped

[3:09] every two weeks. Oh wow. Average order value is sitting around 80 bucks. So if you're going to hit people's credit card, it's basically 100 bucks every You're like, "Dude, that's way too much." We've moved it back into monthly and uh every other month at this point, but it's still like that that balance of like how much did you game it from an AOV or from a discount perspective is actually more dangerous because if you have a super high discount code, then they're going to take it. But guess what? You're going to get hit with that day zero churn, which is like it

[3:38] kills me. Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. There's a lot of stuff to unpack there, but I want to I want to go back a little bit towards the um like how much value is that subscriber? So, you said three times on average at least that three-month LTV. Is that like alltime LTV? Like what is that? No, all time LTV for us sits pretty high because this this product Okay, so

[3:58] there's across the different cohorts. Our average LTV is about 750 bucks. Wow. On a beverage. We're almost four years old, right? the a like in between like where where does it kind of fall off to? About 350. That's the three-month program. Yeah. So, we know we can get on average get them to the three-month and oftentimes some of them are going to buy not on subscription. They're just

[4:19] kind of do a quick buy by themselves. So, we we think a customer to us is anywhere between three 350 bucks to 700 bucks for the really really incredible ones. Yeah. And that's any it is that subscription subscription specifically? That's subscription. I would even go even further like that subscription specifically on our 7.5 ounce 8 pack or

[4:40] our 12 ounce 12-pack. Holy hell. Because because you go into these variants, dude, and like I think about it so much. I'm very curious on how when you look at some of these brands that you're doing is do you try to get the lowest AOV on the entry point that then defaults into a higher price point? Yep. But you just want like they you hope that the the thing that they got at the beginning is so good that they're

[5:05] willing to take a $75 rebuild. Y dude, it's it's I debate this all the time. It's so tough. It's so tough to like test actual like subscription offers and cuz then you got to wait and see what the see what 30 days. Yeah. At least. At least. And then that's only tracking like the 30-day numbers, but it's like does that change after like 90 days. Is there have you guys tested anything in terms of like different bundles like like doing bigger bundles and have you noticed like a difference if in LTV and churn if somebody's doing an eight pack versus 32

[5:34] pack? Oh yeah. Oh. Oh dude. Even even deeper. So we we in we in July of last year, literally in July last year, we scaled a $45 variety pack which is the cheapest front-end offer we've ever been like that. Yeah. We would have need we would have needed CAC at like 20 bucks. Yeah. But we were going basically 45 bucks on

[5:54] 45 bucks trying to go zero to zero. It was that a pack with THC drinks and just like Good question. It was a It was a pack with just a cannabis one. So it was like three flavors of cannabis or because the cannabis one does much better on the internet. It's it's like novel. It's easier to kind of convince people to

[6:14] buy. So that is usually our hero that we run with. But we do obviously know you have to to support some of the retail programs, we have to promote the nonTC beverages, right? Yeah. Um, but I would it was it was the difference of us going from 15 I'm looking at specifically in in six on 61 15,000 subscribers on 81 19,000 subscribers. So, there's a difference of like a 3,000 to 4,000 subscription take rate swing. And then now as we're walking down because you acquire these poor customers but there's still an LTV here for and so we've been actually like washing them through our system for quite some time. So all all

[6:53] that to say was like you it's really difficult to test the front end but we know we know for a fact we have three offers that we rotate against. We try to do a bunch every quarter but we at least have a three a month so that we can use for different acquisition or even win backs because sometimes you people forget about doing offers for

[7:08] those guys. Um but we do not go below $75. That's like the magic number that we found to make the make the math math. Interesting. Interesting. Got it. And so for that specific like so that specific one did that end up working would you say? And why why don't you stick with that? The working Brandon shout out to Brandon Frink uh and team on Brandon's side he'd

[7:30] be like dude we scaled you it worked. Yeah. On my side customer support or retention I'm going like dude I am bleeding. like I can't what can I put in front of these guys to convince them to stay from an offer and discount whatever it is. So on a working from a scalability standpoint, yes, but the business and Jordan Monard did a talk for us in in uh he talked about natural CAC, this topic of natural CAC and the natural CAC for us, it might be a hundred bucks, like it might be 80 bucks, but the business has to support

[7:59] around it. Right? Then we probably felt that $45 was the correct price, but the business could not have supported it. So from a cash flow standpoint, from a cash flow standpoint, no, it was not a success. But it also showed that we could what we could do in a month. Gotcha. And Okay. Interesting. So is that just like kind of like in the in the toolbox if you ever need to pull it out at some point? Is that how you view

[8:22] that? It is. And it's funny because going live on Sunday afternoons, we have one of our largest because we're coming into 420. That's our birthday, of course. Big day to celebrate. So, coming into that next coming month, we have our birthday offer, which we try to do our birthday and Black Friday very similarly. Black Friday last year was a buy more, save more, which usually does pretty pretty good. It's easy to understand,

[8:42] easy to get people to buy into it. Uh, and it's a party time. Well, for our birthday, we're just going to go like a normal like buy one get one on a simple BOGO. And so, I think the simplicity of this offer could be incredible. Yeah. So, we that So, what you're asking is like what is the cheapest that you can get that Merc with the margins? That's our number. like if 45 is going to be it, we got to make sure that we're

[9:02] acquiring at the right speed. Interesting. Interesting. Got it. Um and then kind of just like to backpedal a little bit there cuz we were talking about subscriptions and you you'd mentioned like you don't want to get too pe too many people to subscribe, dude. Um like why like why not just like get everybody to subscribe? Like what's the what's the problem with that? So, I think this is this is the benefit of like a a I think this is having an agency background and then having like people that are like, "Hey, like I know you're doing breeze, like could you just look at my shit?" Like you get to see

[9:31] back into some of these some of these styles and I come in these earlier ones and I've for some reason been able to find a good cohort of people that are like high growth young guns that are just scaling these companies and they don't they don't really have I don't want to call like OG cuz yes I am a little bit I'm

[9:47] not status but I'm definitely OG status. No, no, you might be on. You might be on. I've heard it a couple times recently, but if if I can drop in and give some like acknowledge like, "Yo, guys, I agree that this is working, but we need to pay attention over here." And I look at I'm like, "Why are these guys going from no joke 5,000 subscribers to 30,000 subscribers in a month

[10:06] to 100,000 subscribers in 6 months?" Dude, you you there's there's you're definitely doing something to do that. Like, what what are the tactics you get? You disgustingly deep discount. Mhm. the opt-in rate or the the in this brand specifically has an 85 to a 90% opt-in rate. Why do we think that is? They're probably deceiving the

[10:28] customers. Your words, not mine. 100, dude. 100%. Like there's no way someone gets into and how do you validate this? Just go look at the exit surveys and then where's where's the churn at? Yeah. The churn hits on usually it's like the largest spike on day 27 to 30 and then it's the emails going uh you just hit my

[10:45] credit card. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's why like you don't want and there's also this biggest debate. So one of the biggest inspirations from the brands that do this at a level um they're called Wolfies Wu FF an incredible dog supplement brand. These guys have been running the game for forever. Sam has been a great friend and they play this subscription offer game so unique than most like and we're

[11:05] starting to see it now more popularized. So they'll still offer you think about this. You're on a PDP and you have your options of like buy full price or buy a little bit discounted. They only show the buy discounted uh buy box, which subscribe and save. And then instead, it's like a little line right beneath the buy box that just says, "No,

[11:24] thank you. I'll take it full price." Yeah. Once you click that new link, it drops you to a new page. On the new page, instead of just giving you one time purchase, it's a 136 with the option to subscribe again. Wow. So, they like walk you into another opt. So, they're going, "Okay, cool. You want one time purchase? Well, now you need to

[11:43] buy three of these." Holy cow. And so the the depth of this strategy and this the the tactics of like trying to get these customer into it. But again, that's the economics of how your business wants to work. You will have churn. That's just how you just it's just the the equation. Yeah. So what you decide not to go down that route then for what reason? Like you just want it to be is it for sake of simplicity, customer support as well? um in just wanting to be super clear, giving people giving your customers the option to just like one time like what's

[12:15] the what's the reason? I think it's so we we do like subscription only offers. We do like to have prisoner pages where they can't go anywhere. Um we know that there are going to be a lower cohort, but it will increase our subscription growth. So we we will obviously keep a percentage of those people and they're not as expensive to acquire than the normal ones that are just like opting in. M but I just think fundamentally if you don't give the customer an option and the only option is like churn after they get the the thing I think they're they're not going to love that. It's not

[12:44] a great feeling overall. And we if we're going to sell a beverage that's better for you if we're doing that deceptively like it's kind of a what what life are you living vibe there dude. But then look you you and I both know there's some brands where for you to get out of that subscription it's like you basically have to give up

[13:00] your first born. Yeah. Dead ass. Dead ass. Like you you literally cannot. It's impossible. It's like what's your code? What you like? Like I didn't set up a code. I didn't log in portal. Yeah. It's it's tough. Yeah. 100%. Right on. Well, then I'm curious like specifically on because we've been talking about subscription offers. Um I guess like a little bit more on the subscription offers and then I want to dive into like actually your subscription setup and onboarding, how you guys treat it. But like specifically like on the acquisition side um when when you are running offers um towards subscription deals like are you specifically running ads toward because

[13:38] you mentioned you had pages where it's specific to subscription only offers. Um do you ever worry about confusing customers with having all sorts of different offers running at the same time? Is there any concern about that or has that never been something that you worry about? I used to actually trip on this a lot because you you you try to be intentional about the journey that they're supposed to take, but then when you actually look at any of these reporting tools, Converge, Triple, Northbeam, they're like they're touching six or seven different pages and then they're getting that email and then they got an SMS and then maybe they got like

[14:10] a postit or like something sent to their house. So, I used to be very very intentional. Now, I I have like an overarching thing I'm trying to get the team to run from. So, if I'm I'm looking at my document in January, we had one, two, three, four, five, and listen to the diver diversity offers. Dry January lift kit, 16 micros

[14:28] plus four shots. Offer one. Mhm. Infused variety pack 12 plus four free shots. OG micros are just like our normal smaller cans plus four shots. 12-pack only. Yeah. So, think like and it goes and then it goes OG micro plus four flow. So those are all different. Yeah. But it's they're the same products. It's kind of like Mexican food. It's either a taco, burrito, or what? It's the same [ __ ] You just got to keep wrapping in different things. So on this one specifically, you're like they when should all these customers get it? Now in my head, I go, I need them all to be what we call locked in

[15:02] landers, prisoner page, no navigation, add to that page, and then from the remarking standpoint, it's up to it's kind of up the media buyer. It's kind of up to the the team's journey. They could either go what back right to that page or you go to the website and shop around. Yeah. Now I I think there's two ways of doing that. That's like one funnel where it's like the the tight on the top, a little bit wider on the bottom. Get them in only for this

[15:26] specific offer. That's all they can see. They don't buy. Cool. We'll put you to the website. Or the other way which is drop to the website first. Let them shop around. Let them click through. And then what do they get on the follow-up? The different types of offers. Maybe it's your first entry point. Just get an eight pack. And actually the boys at the

[15:42] boys at Cadence do this really good. Yeah. So let me let me tell you how these guys got it structured. So first off, Beverage Guys, those guys are crushing it. They're very very incredible. They're kind of like the New Tonic guys in in terms of they have great content from the founders and so they already have great

[15:56] top of funnel. Yeah. which if you look at how they're they're they're doing it, you have branded content, culture content, try any of our products top of funnel and the middle of funnel is like, hey, this is here's your various sets of bundles. Yeah. So, it's either just drinks or it's the gel or it's the hat or it's the bottle. It's all combined and at the very very

[16:15] bottom it's the specific products again. So, you're they're trying to find different ways that you might feel the best entry point in and what is our balance? what is the AOV versus what what but is the potential LTV and I think that that's like that's where I think LTV is going to be incredible or uh uh AI for LTV brands are going to be incredible stick with me on this one okay so the hardest thing so you look at ski you look at stay you look at recharge you look at uh loop you look at all these seal all these freaking reporting tool subscription tools but what they what none of these guys do

[16:49] is like can give you a very they all speak about it differently a very clear way of forecasting how many units per order is going to be based on like the current signup rate of that product and skew. Okay. So, so, so stay with me on this. So, like you have people that are you have your uh cracked you have cracked acquisition team spending a [ __ ] ton of money and they're like basically day trading turning ads and offers off daily. But us on the retention side where we should be understanding exactly what is potential churn for this specific skew for this specific and also what is this growth

[17:23] bro? No one does this. So like if the the the way that you can get it from a demand planning standpoint you have to solve this [ __ ] first. But I don't see anybody solving this stuff. That's why I'm like and to me it's like the biggest struggle cuz I'm like what tool do I use? And I'm not a I'm not a

[17:37] vibe coder like I'm not there yet. That's why everything's just in Google Sheets always. It deep literally I'm like of all the dashboards we have it a this isn't clawed. This is sheets. Seriously. Seriously, that's crazy. And so when you're running all these offers just like to kind of like get a final sort of like bow on it, like is the whole goal of running all these offers um is it to find the one banger offer that you just drive a [ __ ] ton of traffic to or is it to just have a [ __ ] ton of offers because there are so many different customers who prefer different

[18:04] things and there are so many different entry points and you're trying to like cast a uh have a wider surface area cuz some person's going to prefer this path, some person's going to prefer this. Um, so are you just trying to like give so many options to the customer that you can serve everybody or is it to be like this specific offer is ripping now it's

[18:21] triple down or is it like a mix of both? So you you kind of answered it for me. It is a mixture of both but the reason why but let me explain why both are important. If we we have two to three hero SKUs at any time that those two or three hero SKs have different lead times of production and those have they have different life uh uh life cycles on shelf like they they expire differently and the ingredients that's bring it differently. Okay. So if um so we we need very different entry points for the brand so that it god forbid which we get this call this morning yo

[19:03] spirits we're we're I had six weeks on hand shaq we have two weeks on hand so now it goes guys that offer has to be off but what if that offer was 90% of our traffic cooked what do we do we're [ __ ] absolutely [ __ ] so you so now you go into by necessity of a brand that's wanting to push multiple products or wanting to sell and not be dependent on one core

[19:25] skew This is how our business is set up. We need variety of entry now. Then then if anything, God forbid, goes too wrong, we're like, "Cool, that traffic, it wasn't 90%, that was 20%." Boom. That sucks. But guess what we have in the in the hopper? And that that system of creation of offer or framing of new product being sold, dude, it's just

[19:45] insurance. Too many eggs in one basket. 100%. And and like then you can go like okay the second layer in is like okay a customer and I know a customer's best journey for me is if they start at a 7 ounce or 7.5 uh eight pack and they make their way to a 12 ounce 12-pack.

[20:01] Mh. So what is that? How do I get that repeat rate on that that journey and the most times I can do that is when I know they're going to stick with me. Like that's it. That was that's the equation that only matters. Beautiful. Beautiful. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. And the thing is I never needed to be retention. It was all acquisition. And that's why this shit's so so different because I think about it from an acquisition standpoint in a retention play and even even when you're you're about to ask like okay what does like onboard look like? What do they what do these people get on the way in? And I

[20:29] think it's different for each brand but where since our product similar to this is like a better for you beverage that's going to feel some type of way. There's a unique taste to it. Well, if you're about to get a subscription your dopamine and your your like you're super excited for this to come. And the first thing is we got to tell

[20:44] you drink it cold. Yeah. So like as soon as you get it, you are not drinking this out of the out of the box. Like put that [ __ ] in the refrigerator. So we have to explain like here's why it's going to taste this way because I feel like the excitement of them buying the product. They just need to know, hey, act subscription has been activated, get familiar with the portal, which I I firmly believe it should be either a plain text email from founder, plain text email from someone on support

[21:07] or just a hey uh welcome in. Yeah, simple. Don't need to bang anything else. But because of legality and especially in California, you have to confirm that they were on subscription from the first email. Mhm. So that is a must. And so make it as pretty as you want, but you got to be

[21:23] clear. Yeah. And then I would say like we don't send anything until they're about to get the product right now depending on shipment. They're probably going to get their second email between day three and day four depending on if they get a notification. So first email like instantly and then the next a few days later.

[21:36] First Exactly. First email instantly. Second email we have a a day a day behind. So it goes or gets order gets placed literally five minutes in. Yeah, you're gonna get that depending on the whatever condition they're going to go into. And then so then on next email, it's going to be a two-day wait. So that should be it's about to get to you because we're getting we have a

[21:55] basically a three to four day shipment. We're trying not to get it to you. Uh try not to get it to you later than that. But that's a Aaron. Yo, thank you so much your part. Here's what you should expect. Um, and then right after that, we basically wait again. And depending on if uh they've left us a review or not left us a review, we're assuming that if you're on subscription, you have some sort of you're giving us an indication like, hey, I kind of want to try be on this for a while. So, I'm assuming you're a higher uh you care a little bit more. So, maybe

[22:25] you might give me a review if it if it works so good. So, that's this the third really big touch point. And it kind of goes into the the variance like depending on which skew that you're going to get because if if you're if you're buying a skew of our core drink, which is our our smaller one, the consumption of that might be very different. And so we're trying to give you ideas or recommendations of

[22:46] when you should drink it. Mhm. That's it's it's literally use the product, here's what it should taste, and here's what you need to do with it. Gotcha. Interesting. And then within like the first 30 days because like a lot of people do the subscribe and ghost method where you know once somebody's subscribed don't message them, don't email them, don't text them. Um what's your thought

[23:05] process on that? I have a close there's a close brand that we compete with and they are doing incredible numbers. That's their vibe. They're like as soon as you're in that's it. You don't you don't hear from them unless they're trying to do some sort of promo which I look I it it it's all different for all the businesses that I've seen on this. Some of them are like, I want I want our subscribers to be our highest most loyal

[23:26] people. Yeah. So, people are like, I want my subscribers to not even know that they're on subscription, but continue to get the product. I think we live in between. I think they're going to get they're going to get the only communications we do. It's called slow slip Sunday y or slow slip Saturday depending on day we're going to go and it's an incredible

[23:42] mocktail. Yeah. Like something that like you go I want to get that in my email because I want to get a mocktail. So I think that everyone gets it on ongoing and then we have we have this different uh game where it's like if you've been if you're a subscriber for the first month uh we tell you and often we know where like depending on some of this brand where's churn going to be month two month three it's usually in those areas

[24:04] at the beginning. Um then we do the giveaway. Yeah. I was going to ask about that. One of one of our favorite things to do. That was like the easiest lift. I was like dude what can we do that's still worth sending. It's still kind of fun and it hits both lists. What I mean by

[24:16] that is we'll do you've been subscribed. Awesome. And then we'll send the emails usually on like the 20th to 25th because it's not a flow because you have to like let them I guess it could be a flow but we do it manually. I'll have to ask Alyssa on that. It is definitely a flow that is done from us manually because we have to update the names because it's real

[24:39] winners. Yeah. So, so can you explain it the giveaway what you guys do? So, and the goal of why you set this up is to reduce churn or is it for is it for just like overall um overall just kind of like branding play? It's it's going to be both. And here's why. So, I'm going to just pull up my

[24:58] positioning of it real quick. This is an evergreen campaign that we send ongoing. Like, it's just there's there's multiple waves to this. So, essentially we we have It comes from Corbin. We talk about Is Corbin a real person, by the way? He is. He is a real guy. He's a great He's He's our our brand manager. He's a

[25:19] good dude. Most of the emails come from Corbin. Corbin from Breeze. Corbin from Breeze. I actually What's your What's your opinion on having an email from like the company like basically ours is with love at breeze or like Corbin at breeze. Do you think you should play with uh senders? I think it's great. I think it's great. Do you think is it benefit or does it

[25:34] matter? I don't think it really does anything. I think I think it's just kind of like for vibes. I think the vibes are needed on that. I think they help. I think they help. I I don't know if you could like tie it to a specific revenue thing just like the the sender name being like with love at

[25:46] breeze. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think people look at that as much like they look at the sender name like Corbin from Breeze versus the Corbin from Breeze at or like whatever the Okay. I think so. Okay. Um so yeah, we So there's two benefits of this specifically. Say you don't have anything to incentivize someone to stick with you and we were we didn't have our

[26:04] we don't have a gifting program yet. We're still waiting for that investment. Just a discount on our discount or or or more product. we'll like offer them more product at certain times or as their like their their incentive to stay. But it's a sidebar real quick before I go back to this. You can't offer someone too much more product because then the number one reason why people are leaving you is because they have too much product. So it's like a weird balance, dude. Um okay, we do we do the giveaway for two reasons. The first one is we're going to remind them that you can get a free

[26:34] whatever it is and it's usually dope. It's like a 25 pack or sorry 24 pack. It's not just a a small sixer and we always select at least five to six winners. So, it's very e cheap cost. They're they're stoked to get it. And then what we do is we send that exact email of the winners to the

[26:50] non-subscriber list. So, it's like, hey, yo, these people just won cuz they've been on subscription. Yeah, maybe it's time for you to upgrade. Here's your here's your discount code to upgrade. Nice. So, that that to me is like the the the bigger benefit of this. And so it's once a month you run this giveaway and you announce the winners and then once you announce them, then you tell the people who aren't subscribed, yo, look at these guys. And and so are you reaffirming that towards your active subscribers as well to help reduce churn? Like if people are cancelling, do you like have that within like your

[27:21] onboarding flows like, hey, we also do this giveaway or is it just like kind of like a nice little nice little piece? I think it's a nice little piece. I don't think it's enough to attract people. Like this last send we did on March 9th. It was a 40,000 48 48,000 Yeah. day rep on on one email.

[27:36] Jesus. And that's like, hey, like these guys won. Yeah. So to [ __ ] like that is that's so that's such a light lift and it works. Interesting. And I think it's cooler because obviously a close friend's name is Van Oaks who runs like the giveaway method. Sweet mustache. Very incredible mustache. Um unfortunately he's like 65 years old. But really no I'm kidding. He looks I

[27:57] always play with it though. He's young. He's young. No way. He like the when someone knows that they're getting like a giveaway, there's like this weird addiction. Maybe it's an American thing, but like a lottery or giveaway. People are like juiced up. I'm going for it. America. So, I think it's it's fun to play with. If I could make it cooler, I would have been like, "We're giving away a sauna, an ice bath." I think most brands should actually run that, dude. I feel like that'd be a crazy

[28:21] entry for a chance to win a a sauna. That's It's a great gift. Yeah. you just like some sort of like subscriber monthly giveaway. I just like that idea and I haven't actually ran it for any of my brands. It's just like active subscriber giveaway once a month just like you're entered for like maybe just like you're and then you announce it and then send it to the non-winners or the people who are not subscribers. Like look at these guys. That's brilliant, dude. Dude, and and and like you run that in the portal and then you run it like it's a full campaign. Like that should be a program. Yes, there's costs

[28:51] cuz you got to buy the gift. Yes, there's costs cuz you have to film. They're winning if you want to give it out. But if you keep it below a certain price point and they just get it because they're already in it and they're automatically opted in, dude. But you don't do you feel like you could advertise it more towards your active subscribers for reducing if it was bigger. If it was bigger, I don't think I do have like a free six-pack or for a free 20 24 pack, but if it was do they were going to take you to

[29:16] Coachella? I think you could do like a quarterly sort of thing. But do people really think that long? That'd be my question. No, because they're like, "Dude, I can't afford this this month, you know, like I I can barely I I'll stick on for one more month, you know, like we're probably getting people to extend one

[29:31] more time, maybe." Exactly. Exactly. Gotcha. And talking about churn again because we've um because I wanted to make a note on that. You guys have made some nice pushes on decreasing churn. Just curious, what's the sauce on decreasing subscriber churn? Is a great question. So, I we are on and we we were dude, we were battling. So, I'm looking at this right now just so I don't butcher my numbers, but we were battling on this stuff. We have a natural set of churn. We do look at it weekly and we work look at it monthly, but the best the best our program has ever really had, I'm looking at right

[30:04] now. The best our our program ever had was about 17% for the longest time. So, 17% on a monthly churn across every cohort. Now, I don't have any benchmarks what like what are other beverage brands going to be. I believe like where where I think at our peak pinnacle best-in-class where we could actually live I think we're

[30:27] probably living in like the 12%. That's where we should be if everything's if firing on the on the on the go. 12%. Wow. Um and that's because it's beverage like what a good So right now as of last month we're sitting at a 16%. Oh wow. 16.31. So, I'm I'm pretty proud of how that went, especially because we've been battling. We're in a different scenario where we once were because of the offer that we did run. And I feel like we're we're at the lowest amount of daily churns we've ever had. And it's kind of a nice feeling. Now, granted, like the percentage is correlated to the size of

[30:55] your list. So, ours sitting at more like the 11 versus the 20, it it hurts a little bit more. It's like that has to come down. If the if that stay even just stayed the same, it'd be it'd be rough. Are there any like tactics that you're using or is it just like good product, right person, um, and make sure people who subscribe actually want to subscribe and so they'll stay longer and that'll

[31:20] decrease your churn. I kind of think so. I feel like it's our product probably does a lot of the heavy lifting for us. I know some products that don't do what they say it's going to do or or you get a bunch of it and you really can't deal with it. So, I think there's a natural because you think about the goats in the game. You think about you have the AG1, you have the creatine, you have the protein. These guys that know that these people have to consume this on a regular

[31:42] religious basis. Ours is when do they actually going to use this? And it's hard for me to understand that if someone has 30 days to consume eight cans, how can they not do that? Yeah. So, in my head, I'm going like, well, we should communicate consistently. We should continue to come up with ways to put more product in their hands. But I I I I think that side note, I think how churn is reduced over time is an incredible onboard smooth movement, right? I think there is a and and Brian

[32:12] and I go back and forth on this. I feel and I felt that you should have a pretty smooth gifting program communicated up front. Brian, I think he takes a stance of that's a nice to have that that's going to get you eek you out one more month or a little bit, but that's not going to keep and build the

[32:28] program. It's not going to transform your correct. He thinks it's like this is like the final once you're like kind of optimized. Um and so that's what we're probably going to do this year to increase that that offer or that that incentive for people to stick with me. Um long way of saying we communicate

[32:43] regularly. We don't over hit the list. Um I have been seeing some weird stuff about sometimes dunning dunning when when it uh maybe there's something wrong with the credit card or insufficient funds and they keep hitting the credit card. I'm I'm we're we're on stay and I'm wondering if there's a different types of program because all these programs speak to Dunning differently or charge the credit cards

[33:05] differently. I just saw a migration from a loop to to a Skeo and there's like a mismapping of how the the customer tags are, customer IDs are because they all communicate and say the different things about Dunning. Some reporting tools say Dunning is still active customers cuz technically they're not churned and they're not paused. They're trying to hit the card, but like they're about to be out. So So should should if it's entering Dunning, should it just be considered churned until it

[33:38] comes back and if if it's successful? I I actually don't know. Yeah, I think it's a I think it's a fair fair point. Um, you can't you can't conversion rate optimize your way to like 2x in your program really in terms of like churn. It's it's all just like the functional setup and the messaging um that does it. Like I love I love like AG1 and the people that like you say with like like you go to AG1's website and it's just riddled with your daily ritual. So it's just focused on consumption and then you look at all the testimonials and it's I've been on AG1

[34:12] for 6 years. I've been using AG1 since 2012. I've been using this. And so when people buy, they're conditioned to they're they're going in it with the commitment like this is this is part of me now. This is an identity of me now. Um just like these people. Um and so I think that's super super unique. Like I see a lot of brands like who struggle with churn. Like when I'm looking at their numbers, it's like try this product. It's going to change your life the second you use it. Then it's like well then if it doesn't change my life then I'm going to cancel immediately. I

[34:35] think I think it's good for you guys. Like I think you can say something like that specifically for you guys because you do feel it instantly like you get you can get high or you can get some sort of like good feeling. Um when I did breeds for the first time I had a little

[34:48] bit too much. I it might have been at an event too. It might have been a little bit oh I took some home and then we uh Yeah, dude. The It's funny you brought that up because I keep thinking about the product. someone is like how much of the product goes into turn and and some of the founders that are more they like stumble their way into being ecom business owners and they're like well like our product's great like why would someone ever leave this like dude you have to we are competing against just like normal stuff like if if the we're the time we're recording it there's stuff

[35:21] that's happening like macro and if if someone's going to go fill up their tank especially in California it's going to be five bucks a gallon and that's going to be $60 on on like a car like a Honda or something and like that 60 bucks is what they have but that they're about to pull out of their their account because they have

[35:37] drinks coming to their house. Yeah. Like we're we're losing like they're going to fill up the tank. So So like you can't you have to pay attention to these things and I think some founders they get in this position where they believe that their product why should someone ever leave it and you're right like you look at AG1 everything they

[35:51] talk about is ritual and routine. Ritual IM8 ritual routine. Um, brunes, ritual routine, like you just name the name the things. It's about their daily habit. That's where Yeah, that's where I think it's like cuz like the biggest thing is just like get get people to use the product. Like that's that's the biggest thing, especially if you don't feel it immediately. Like creatine's tough because you don't feel creatine, but

[36:11] it's super popular. Super super popular. Like tons of creatine brands, but you don't really feel it. No. Um, and so same with like AG1. Like I use it like I've used it, but like you don't like feel magically different. Um, unless you like try to you just have to try to with your onboarding messaging. That's where I think like retention starts at acquisition with like h how you word everything and then how your offers are set up. Um, like for example, like a lot of the reasons why people will cancel on different different subscription products is because they

[36:40] get like the wrong plan or whatever. Oh yeah. Cadence, right? The cadence of the deliveries, right? Exactly. And so being up for like a lot of brands will try to try to like optimize for like the first order AOV, give people a massive bundle that like they're just not going to use and then you're you're just going to get cancels right off the bat. And so I think that making sure that you have the right product for the right person and the right amount and then with the right messaging that's built for long term, then I think you're in a really good place. And I think you guys have a very

[37:06] smooth sort of like setup. And I think the offer makes sense. And I think that the messaging works and I think the product is also great because people can feel like they can have one can and like they if they like it, they're going to they're going to keep using it. Yeah. And it's instant. It's instant. And in that that you're right. I think the feeling that you get matches the moment and then you it's up to us to game the the the routine of how

[37:26] they should consume it. Yeah. And then and then for you then it's just like consumption. And so that's why you send so many like different mocktails. That's why you send that to like active subscribers. That's a that's a good point because I feel like the brands where you don't really feel it like you know like daily creatine like I'm not feeling the day-to-day benefits like it might benefit a brand a little bit more to not email them as much because and just really go hard on like acquisition um and then messaging and like literally email people every single day once they subscribe like use this every day use

[37:55] this every day use this every day use this every day um use it for six months and then judge like try to lead with that messaging and then try to go like hands off after I'm not sure how would you how would you treat Like if you were a creatine brand for example or like protein powder brand like how would you change what you do with your subscription uh program uh like how do you think about that because also you advise with like a ton of large scaling brands like what do you how do you treat it differently? Do I think I have I have a corrected

[38:22] creatine. So things that you need time to prove out is going to work. And I'll I'll tie you back into the future where I think this is going to go for a creatine for protein specifically. You have to go almostly almost aggressively of like before and afters. You have to be like this person started here and he's 6 months in. Look at him now. Look what he's talking about. Look at what he looks like. He he you have to paint the story of such futuress before

[38:49] they get their second and third rebuild. I think that is where because people have an understanding of like creatine it's not supposed to do anything. Yeah. But I want to make sure that eventually something will happen. Yeah. And I think that's why you look at or these these creatine gummies and they try to make it delicious.

[39:05] Yeah. Cuz like we want you to that's like a little sweet treat that's actually benefiting you. But if it's just straight powder from like a gains and bulk standpoint, they're trying to go even them. What do they win? Flavored creatine. Exactly. Where did Newton? What do they go to? Flavored creatine packets. So like the the it has to fit the stack. And I think Gaines is a perfect example of this is they talk about the purity and the quality and and the the then they go into flavor and then they actually try to win on price point where the because they know quality, price point, and

[39:38] flavor are the only real three things that are going to matter, not necessarily what it's going to do to the body. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think from a protein standpoint, bang the flavors and routines that way you can mix it in. Creatine I actually think is a very difficult business if it's just going to be plain and flat as

[39:51] it is. That's a really good point. Interesting. Yeah. I think you just have to I think like leading with some sort of messaging for something like that using sort of wording that's like you're not going to feel it on the dayto-day, but in six months you're going to look back and be like and look at this example. Yeah. And look at this example. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. And then just future pace just like just take it every day for 6 months and you're going to look back and be like oh my gosh I feel like a different person to dude. Yes. And one of our close

[40:19] friends he's running basically he's like creatine for bigger butts. How's that even what does that even mean? Like send me the link. How does the customer list? How is that even real, dude? It's like I'm going to take this creatine. It's going to make my butt bigger. Like what is that going to do? But the the the fact that he's like so specific on how this position it blew my mind. I'm like, you know exactly what you're doing, and for that to work, you actually have to put work in. And so, he's he's basically letting this product force a habit to build the routine of saying, you're

[40:46] going to go do your squats, you're going to go do your your your waist train, you're going to go do your lunges with this. And this plus this equals exactly what you're hoping it to be. And I think so, what this leads me to in the future is you see like this rise of like tele

[41:00] medicine. Yeah. Okay. Tele medicine. Why why I'm so like losing my mind? Yes. I've been on GLPs and I've tried the NADS and things. There's the the the reason why subscription programs and and brands work so much is because they try to convince you of the the benefit that you're about to have and the feeling

[41:20] you're get is going to be immediate. Yeah. Very few things do this. Yes. When you are injecting yourself or when you're taking over-the-counter prescription drugs from doctors, they will do what it says it's going to do. Exactly. So if you have a now you have a way of like acquiring customers making claims of like you will lose literally this weight or you will feel this

[41:41] specific way and it actually does that. It actually does it. That's the difference where you you're not going anywhere. You're there. Products that actually work and do what they say. Shocking. Shocking. Shocking. Shocking. H. Right on. Right on. Real quick, if you're an e-commerce brand, you want the absolute best of the best. Email SMS and subscription management. I'm going to have a link below to book a call with myself and my team. We've done over $200 million in email sales for our clients. We've worked with over 200 brands. We're

[42:04] really good. You should check us out. Alternatively, if you just want to learn email marketing, whether you're a brand or a marketer, I have a community which has a full 30 plus module email marketing course and some of our best templates of all time. Over 250 plus editable email templates in weekly live calls with me in my community. So, if that interests you, there's going to be a link for that in the description as well. Back to the video. Um, one thing as well that I wanted to that I wanted to touch on there is cuz we've talked about other products and we've like for example, let's look at like a creatine

[42:30] brand for example cuz I have I have a lot of a lot of brands who sell creatine and there are a lot of brands who some sort of supplement brand. Um, it's weird. You don't look like you work out at all though. All right. All right. Chill, chill, chill. Um, we um Oh, how do you treat like cross cells and upsells for active subscribers? Cuz I have brands who are like they they just want cross cells and upsells. Like let's drill our subscribers with like they're on creatine, I need to get them on protein, protein, protein. Um, have you seen success with like cross-elling and upselling? Um, you

[43:03] could talk about breeze like whatever cuz I don't really know where I stand. I haven't had much success myself cuz like people are subscribed to the product to the product they have for a reason. Curious like your thoughts there. who we so we have two we have two I'll use ours and I'll use another example of this the only reason so if you are not positioning and I think protein brands should do better at this the system and protocol of what people are consuming of like the 1 plus 1 equals three like 1 plus 1 equals 3 is the benefit of like these two togethers are like

[43:33] exponentially better if they were versus them being by themselves and so when you're right if I'm subscribed to a creatine generally like that is not a I'm trying to gain muscle or build protein But the the what is someone wanting if they're going to be just on protein or just on creatine probably to better their performance or better their output in

[43:50] some area. And so that system of selling them that probably is what's not working cuz they I look I took this as a discount and I want to be on subscription here and now you're asking me to spend more money. What is my benefit? Like there is a there is an equation to where I can give them this much more discount because they've already been a subscriber and they've already paid me much my my quotequote hopefully my CA back. I should give it whatever I can possibly afford with shipping with because I'm

[44:16] not having to reacquire this customer. So, I think where brands [ __ ] up is they're not willing to go deep enough on their back end to let this offer of multiroducts be beneficial. Yeah, it might may. So, so maybe they're subscribed to a $30 creatine and there's a $50 protein and putting those together, it's not going to be 80 bucks really. We'll give it to you guys for 45 or 50. And now both of them are discounted and I'm only paying5 or $10 more because we want ARP uh ARPU to grow slightly. You don't want it to go ex exponentially. So I think so that's an example. I think people

[44:52] [ __ ] up the presenting of the incentive to the existing buyer base at the wrong which and also dude if I've been a subscriber and I get the offer that's incorrect I'm going dude [ __ ] you I'm out. Exactly. So it's actually more detrimental to put the wrong offer. So for for what we do on Breeze, it's always it's always a free something. They're always going to get free. So like you're going to get shots if you want to upgrade this specific month, which means we might get them for one rebuild. Um is it shots of the same product or are

[45:18] you is it other? Correct. So the shots of a different product because we're selling seltzers to everybody primarily. We wouldn't do shots to them who bought the spirit, which is basically shots of the spirit. Yeah. So the spirit would get a free six-pack or free fourpack. M. So, we would make sure that the offer is incentive to the other direction. And usually pushing people into cross sales and

[45:40] upsells is just a long game. Yeah. You're not There's no immediate move. I rather worry about repeat buy or non-subscription into subscription. Exactly. Than cross sales and upsells. Exactly. What I what I've exp I've I haven't had much success with it trying to crossell people cuz like the people like use your product every single day like for example like creatine brands trying to like crossell like protein or something like the people who are subscribed they use your product every day they see your face every day like they see your brand every day if they need protein they know that you have protein and they're using they see

[46:10] you every day and they'll naturally go back. Uh, but what I love uh kind of like what you kind of touched on is I see a lot of brands they do like free gifts in order to get brand in order to keep subscribers. So month one some sort of free gift, month two maybe month four. Um see a lot of brands they do just like kind of like [ __ ] free gifts that are kind of like tacky and it's like how many shaker bottles does does a person need? Um, but what I what I love are the ones where it's samples of other products of other products because then

[46:40] you get you get the free gift benefit, but also you could get expansion. They could then if they like it, they [ __ ] with it, then they can add it to your order. Like for example, like um if you look at like gains in bulk, for example, in the first rebell, um it's you get

[46:53] free sample of workout candy. Yeah. Um and so you tell people right right after they subscribe, hey, you get this in your next order like don't cancel, you're going to get this free thing. And then the people try it. And then in the next billing reminder, it's, hey, if you liked it, click this onetime add-on for this discount

[47:08] for this. Yeah. And then that that works great. And then you could just do that product by product every single month and not do like the [ __ ] gifts that are just like don't expand revenue. That's why I love like the free sample cross sales. So it's it's I think when they say, oh, I want crosses and upsells, you're like, well, like that's not an email flow. That's more of like a technically it's a flow, but it's a step. It's like step by-step flow cuz you take it like cadence for they have their beverage, they have their gels, they have their sachets and you go

[47:35] if I'm going to be subscribed all of it together is the better. We want them to use as much as you possibly can but they got to try it here and there because being overly subscribed to a multi00 thing and honestly a lot of the consumers that people need to remember they're not loyal.

[47:48] Yeah. Like you want a creatine brand you like this creatine. You want a protein brand cuz you like this protein. How many energy drinks are in my fridge? I have like six or seven. It's just like I like variety. Customers like variety. So, this is I feel like the best expansion of uh upsells, cross sales is having more of that incredible product they have in various flavors that the customer gets to choose. Like there's a reason why create has like 19 different flavors cuz like I might love this one, but this one I might want to add in or or adjust to it. So, I I I I know what you mean on it

[48:19] probably doesn't work as well and it honestly probably doesn't because there's some SKs and and products that just don't sell as good as their core. Yeah, 100%. Um, okay. I want to I want to kind of switch a little bit to be not as much now. Let's go a little bit away from subscription. Um, and just talk about like general retention. Um, because we talked about email frequency towards subscribers. I'm curious about your take on email frequency towards just like a general email list or like your nonsubscribers. Um, you get a lot of people who don't want to send emails every day. Uh, you guys send emails like every single day. What

[48:52] are your thoughts on like email frequency um and how it's changed like over the years? Like are you like what when should you send emails every day? I think I think co uh not co I think Black Friday Cyber Monday last year kind of broke my brain on on this stuff. Every year I feel like I have to send So you have first you have Apple with an anonymizing emails then you have Gmail putting you into promotions tab and you have just any any other platform like making it so much more difficult to like hit main feed unless you have so much engagement that I I there's a lot of the

[49:32] tools that like you know identify more customers that are anonymous and blocking blah blah blah. I think the volume that are going to hit the inbox is just going to be higher and higher and higher. I think this year in Black Friday, I'm expecting to do two times as many emails as I did last year. And I and it's it it sucks cuz I feel before I would spend much more time being intentional around the campaign development or giving feedback to Corbin and Alyssa about hey like what is the first email we're sending this one and then what are the leads to the next one? And I'm I I get to the

[49:59] point where I if every email, okay, so back back in the 90s, you'd have cartoons that would be like a full start to finish storyline and it didn't need to connect to what happened before to understand what was going to happen next. I feel in our email system, any sort of emails are going out, that email should be a full story with the

[50:19] offer complete done. Yeah. It doesn't need prior context. No. And which means if you're going to be sending every day, which we pretty much do on average, the amount of campaigns we do on a monthly basis ranges between 18 to 28. Okay. It could also go higher if we do retail campaigns. Like it could be

[50:34] anywhere between 18 to 40 emails. But the segmentation usually by region. Our segmentation is usually by most engaged. And then we do often have win back campaigns running because we have that rolling coord of people that haven't been subscribed to us on like a however far back we go like three month rolling before we start sending offers to them to come back and join. So I I'm saddened knowing I'm probably going to

[50:57] have to continue to increase my emails. And I'm also happy because I I think you we'll get to a point where we'll be able to send a specific email to a specific customer at a specific time that like all the robots handle. Yeah, exactly. Why are why are you saddened by sending more? Just because you think it's annoying, high

[51:15] unsubscribes. I think it's uh like you used to have like really dope like email campaign drops or like like something would be cool. Like you'd have you'd have real [ __ ] to talk about and now I feel as though we're going March is a big for us. We do Mocktail Madness which is a an awesome series that we did and I'm like okay well that was cool actually and we we had real campaigns and stuff to talk about this month. is feel like we got to run this promo. This is the revenue we need to hit. We got to move these cans. So, I don't know. That's that's why it sucks

[51:45] because it used to be really cool planning. Go shoot content. Now, I'm going like, "Cool, here's the theme. Let's fit the the the emails and offers to the theme." Yeah. And it's like you also I think that um open rates are just like hyper hyperinflated as well. like you can have like 60 to 60% open 65% opens on um like Clavio like I or whatever platform you're using. You look at the open rates, but like how many of those are Gmail or people just marking [ __ ] as unread? Um yeah, and is that getting reported? I think that we actually have way less opens than we did in the past. And then also

[52:24] you got stuff going into promos. Um even on SMS in the new iOS update, there's now a promo tab for SMS. This is true. This is true. So it's just like that's where all of them go. Exactly. Like literally. Exactly. And so I think that the email inbox is just getting so so crowded and it's kind of turning into ad platform and it's just frequency frequency frequency. Try to be at the top of the inbox at all times. Um and then SMS is going to start to become like the newer email um in my opinion. And then you're going to have like promos uh the promo

[52:52] tab and whatnot there. Um and so I think it's super interesting. And so I was curious your take on just like the email email frequency and kind of like where most brands should land. But it sounds like, you know, frequency, increase the frequency. I think I think it's the only option. Like you said, we try to be at the top of the feed for for ads. You want that first impression when it comes on. I think it's going to be the same exact

[53:14] way for emails. Mhm. I agree. You can't not like you can't not not send. And then also like you think about from the agency standpoint, dude, the amount of you sign a contract and you base it off of the volume and they're going to be like, "Well, I want to send every single day." You're like, "Cool. that's going to be $35,000 or $25 plus thousand and like for what to send emails and then you got to justify the revenue from email. Like it's it's I think it's it's going to be an interesting conversation that's going to

[53:43] happen. And it's just like a [ __ ] ton of volume. But maybe we'll get some AI bots to to [ __ ] help us with production. I have to. It's got to be close. I've been trying to play around that stuff like Figma to Clavio Clavio exports. I can get incredible incredible detailed reports on performance per flow per email but to get like a projection of flow growth or expected revenue per flow is still not there at least I am not smart enough

[54:09] to figure it out. How are you using uh AI for analyzation that's that's good. Are you using like different different apps? Did you build something yourself? Yeah, we did or what? We built we used to use Rayon which was a goat that they was such a goat. Um if I would pull this up. So, it's actually

[54:24] they sold, right? They did. They got they went into the uh Mailchimp family of apps, which means they do not open it to anybody else unless you're on Mailchimp. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. So, this is this is a full this is what we call like a flow flow flow dashboard. And so, this goes back for all and what I'm trying to understand and predict and this is obviously pulled up to the the 12th um up to February 12th. I was like, I want to know revenue per recipient. I want to know total amount of deliveries and then I wanted you to tell me like the highest

[54:56] the top the top 25 top performing revenue per recipient emails and like where's the where's the learning here? Yeah. So I think it it was able to like highlight and pull it out a little bit different but and you're using AI to analyze it well or is it just this custom dashboard? This is just a custom dashboard. I think from the analysis from short answer is yeah like yes I am. I'm like I I want it to pull some insights based on what it's

[55:19] going to see. But you you have to like anonymatize everything. You have to pull customer IDs out of you have to pull just unless you're on your own kind of private situation. But like what what it did uncover for me it it started to give me an idea about like from our welcome flows. I wanted to see like segment growth and ex if it's segment growth times how many emails we're sending plus the open rates. you can back into like what could this flow produce for me this month based upon how

[55:46] many people are signing up for it. That's huge, dude. Like that's that's like a great lead to understand to the team. Hey, even if they're not netting out from the ad standpoint, they're going to get my welcome flow. They're going to get my band in. We can expect this. Exactly. So that's that's the extent. But what I now wanted to do is like can I paint like anybody listening to this is smarter than me, but like I would love this. I would like a a real-time dashboard that's going to say based upon how much traffic is coming to each of the segments that are filling the flows. If performance per email

[56:18] drops below what we deem 10% 20%, send alert flag check this email in this flow. Here's recommendations to improve it based upon how it performed in the past. I would want that per email per flow and on like a direct notification. That would be pretty elite. Yeah. Yeah. I know there's um it's it would actually be pretty easy to do like a weekly report or like a daily report like if you're hitting those KPIs just with some automations. There's also a cool cool tool um I had a demo with the other day um where it's essentially

[56:49] you want to shout them out or not. Um Flaunt, their name is Flaunt. Heard of them? No, but Brian Brian gave me an intro on these guys. Yeah. No. Uh looks cool. I haven't tried it. Okay. Um everybody can take a look if they want. Um but kind of like that and what they can set up is like

[57:06] something similar um towards that. Dude, it might actually be Aurelion without Aurelion. It dead ass is um but essentially I think it would be pretty easy to set up even your own but even through them as well monthly or weekly on like Monday. Here's the report and everything um on where we're at with KPI and then recommended improvements. The only problem with like current like um Claio API and all that stuff is it can't read emails. It can only read subject line

[57:34] preview text. Um that's all it can read. It cannot can't like actually look at the email unfortunately and look at the angles. Um so really you're just getting the highle strategy if you get analysis. So, if there's some way to do that, I think what I tried to build on this, so I wanted to build and like I know for the for the audience I I'll maybe I'll give you like a screen share of this so you can kind of overlay it, but I wanted to build an email brief

[57:55] builder and like I got so close to it. So, essentially what this was is like I wanted I wanted to be able to free flow build a build I wanted to free flow by building a flow or a campaign that would then be like simple text with strategy that then sent to my designer. Yeah.

[58:12] And they could implement spruce it up. And what I was able to end up doing is like I was able to export every email in my welcome flow. Mhm. Full text, full design, full layout per email, dynamic. Like that's that shit's real. Like that's existing. That's the [ __ ] that's live. Every single one of these emails. And so I was able to like duplicate it over if I wanted to split test and build it really quick. And I was able to do that from welcome all the way to post renewal, site abandonment, churn, win back. So, it's it's so close, but like you mentioned, I can't I can't give it like natural

[58:43] language. Yo, do these things for me and then it just builds it cleanly. But it's not far off. Yeah, it's not. No, we have we have a we have a full-time AI developer and we have our own internal tool. It's just like creative tool. It's everything but design. Um, so it's like trained on all of our strategy, best performing emails, tons of docs, and it learns from like everything that we're doing. So all of our uh account managers use it for

[59:08] calendar planning and generating ideas. Huge. Um yeah. And then um also all the copyriters use it for copy. We don't use we all of our copy used to be in Google Docs. Not allowed to use it anymore. You got to be in this tool. Got um and so yeah. And so it's sick. And so we're able to also like then get data as well. And so like the he just gave us like the monthly report of um like what percentage of our emails so how many emails did we put together as a company this last month? What percentage were text based emails? What percentage were graphic based? Um, what was our average

[59:39] words per email? What were the different email types? Because like it categories it categorizes it as well. So it's like x% of our emails are testimonials. Da d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d how many times did we do store credit emails versus percent off and like I'm able to just look at across the whole agency and I'm like oh [ __ ] like why are we we're pretty heavy on discounting like we got we got to chill out a little bit

[59:57] and then we can adjust it and then you can kind of it it's super sick and so we have that um and that's like the full suite and it briefs the email lays it out how it should be for the designer like physically it's like oh I love that that's what I want yeah it it's it's pretty [ __ ] sick and then it just goes to the designer exactly how the email should look um spaced out but just like without the without the images. Um so next step is like ideally to be able to get it to do design but right now we're trying to get

[1:00:24] it to the next step is actually also like flow briefs and everything. It's like right when we sign a brand this is almost done but like it's in it's in kind of you you can do it on your own but it's actually like a view a flow map diagram. Like we sign a brand it's going to look at the brand and it's going to like brief all of our flows and like create an actual flow map diagram and then there's a chat with it. So, the account manager could be like, "Oh, like welcome, the welcome flow is five emails. Email number three. I don't really like that angle. Could we do like

[1:00:50] a how-to email instead?" And then boom, it'll update it and then do the brief and then and then once we're ready, boom. And then it'll generate all the copy for it and then copyriter goes in and briefs it. Um, or like double checks it. That's what we have. But I want to get connected to Clavio and

[1:01:03] actually do analysis in there. It's so good, dude. Cuz but uh think about this. Maybe we don't even want them to get into and this is the the the balance. We don't even want them. We still want the humans in it to do the thing. Just like only strategy like I the analysis will be important. No doubt. And I think tools like fl or

[1:01:20] tools like how how rayon was used. It'll start pulling the things that you're like curious about and you're like what was the email that we sent all of a sudden like charge like had a massive spike in term what did we do like what was that? I would want that surfaced and then the human goes a little bit deeper. Even to the design side, there's so many times that an a brand or client doesn't have an opinion until they see what you give to them and they're going like, I really don't like it. So, there's going to need the human anyways because as soon as they realize like

[1:01:46] you're just kind of prompting or it's like not as good. It's kind of how people used to feel when they found out like their designer was offshore. Yeah. Like, what do you mean this dude's in Bangladesh? Like I was like, dude, is it a good email or is it not a good email? It doesn't [ __ ] matter where they're

[1:01:57] from. But I feel like they might have that same exact attitude towards what do you mean AI made this and you didn't make this? And that that to me is a it's a bummer, but b the value of what we as an agency do or what we as like a consultant or what we as a brand builder do is the the human strategy involved in it and then the QC before everything goes live because we still don't want it

[1:02:19] to feel like AI did everything. Mhm. Because I think people will sense that AI did everything. 100%. No, I mean we get that. We get that a lot like a lot of brands coming in. It's just like do you guys use AI for your copy? Um, and it's like we just tell them straight up like, "Yeah,

[1:02:36] approve it or don't." Yeah. Yeah. And then they're like, "Can you like not use copy, not use AI for it?" We're like, "No." Yeah. Like why would why the way wouldn't they? Like it's really it's better than human. Like we'll we'll create everything and then if you don't like it, then maybe we could look at it and then they always like it. And then it's like if a brand's like super set about it, we do real life AB tests um of give them AI generated copy and then they're like they think it's human and then they're like shout out your copyriter and you're like beady doves that

[1:03:05] by the way his name is AI. His name is chat. Yeah. And so that's that's it. So I I would I'm so curious on like I would love to see not today but eventually when you do it where it's like to do a full cuz right now I'm basically full briefing but in a really nice uh Google doc and sheet that's just pure strategy that then I can hand off because it's like here's the segments here's the things here all the but since you are needing to brief and do the execution it makes sense to for it to be like full flow layout and then like kind of design is it does

[1:03:40] it drop it to Figma or does it drop it to mirror? No, no. Um, within the platform. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. It's its own thing and then you Yeah. See that has to be exported into Fig. Yeah. The only thing is like Yeah. designing it like once you design emails

[1:03:52] it's you have to design in Figma. How cracked is it having an AI guy in your like team? So sick. That was necessary. So sick. We need more. We're trying to hire more. I believe it. Yeah. And so do you do you thinking about it the way I'm thinking about it where like I'm not trying to have a massive amount of employees as much as I used to think and now I'm going to go like how do I keep who I have and the ones willing to step up and use we want to

[1:04:15] empower them. Exactly right. Okay. 100%. I'm trying to slow down my hiring. Like I don't want it by using more AI. Like I don't want to I don't want to like get rid of copyriters or anything, but um or designers once once design is there. But how can I just like maybe I just don't need to [ __ ] hire anybody

[1:04:33] for two years. Yeah. Which would be dope until you start new lines of business. Exactly. I'm thinking about it this way too. Even even on on the brand side, I look at it. I like the team. There's still things that I can't fully and this is what scares me about what AI is going to do is I've contracted three basically AI de dev agencies because I don't need a person full-time because I have various amounts of projects like projects onetime things this quotes 20,000 this quotes 6,000 this quotes 4,000 like what like where like where does this range what is going on and then tell me how much it's going to cost me

[1:05:08] ongoing. Yeah. like like people don't think like Aaron our our CEO of uh at Breeze was like yeah I think my token usage last month was like five figures. I was like what do you mean? What do you mean that's like more than three employees? What are you talking about? He's like yeah like we're building a [ __ ] ton of stuff. I was like that's that's overwhelming. You could just rack up token usages and not even

[1:05:29] know it. Yeah. I I feel like it's just like helpful to have um because there's so much [ __ ] that you don't even think you could automate unless you have somebody there to just like tell you you can. Yeah. To just tell you you can and just like live with you. Um I know. I know. Like like I'm trying to I'm trying to hire more. Um we're in the process of getting getting some more to just go with him cuz right now it's just like

[1:05:53] the whole goal cuz he was a copywriter. Like I didn't actually go out and hire like this AI guy, but he he's like, "Yo, he's seeing it. He was I want to be valuable. That's exactly he built his own He built his own tool. He's just like a He lives up in Alaska where it's he created this in the winter where it's dark 24 24 hours of the year just nothing to do. He was just writing copy and so he just had his own he was a copywriter and so he created his own copy tool uh using AI cuz he was loving it and then he was

[1:06:18] like dude check this out and I was like [ __ ] yeah that's sick. Can you like give this to the rest of the team? Um and he was like yeah and then he started to give it to the rest of the people and then it was just like why don't we just like have you be the AI guy. So then he did that and he's built this this whole tool and then now he's now the goal was just like mastering copy with it and then now it's like okay how do we make this like the full email marketing strategist suite and everything runs through it. Now we're

[1:06:38] starting to use it um for client communication in terms of helping draft up our monthly reports. So you just drop in the data um in sheets um or voice note as the account manager but like you can just drop in like your Clavio screenshots for the week. That's nice. it'll format the message and then help the uh help them send it to the client, help put together reports um in in like the way like how we how we like to talk. And so it's just gone to a bunch of different stuff that like I

[1:07:03] didn't even know existed. I think the reporting side of it has been the most beautiful thing. Like it's it it's ability to lay out the information is you can almost oneshot it no matter how bad you are at prompting. It gives the information correctly. I had to deliver very important things from a churn standpoint for subscription in California because we might lose the ability. I was like, can you give me based on how many rebuilds for each of these customers and the products that they're on and the likelihood of their them going to be churned? Can you give me like the weekly, monthly, quarterly, and yearly revenue loss projection? And

[1:07:36] I was like, sure, bro, that would have taken me forever. Like it's one state, multiple SKs. Yeah. No human needs to be like diving deep into spreadsheets and [ __ ] and like just doing all of that. Like our like our account managers like we we started to use um some like reporting tool and it's like but for the longest time it was like oh we don't want to use like templated reports or like oh we don't want to use like AI reporting. Um but you don't need a human to just like sit down in sheets and do it like you can just have have the AI do it

[1:08:04] as it should. Yeah, that's what that that's like one of my favorite use cases, just the data analysis and then presenting it and then you create your own deductions that it gives you the data in a clean way that's easy to understand and then you create the insights off of it as it should again that's the human in

[1:08:20] the loop for that. Yeah, 100%. And then to go back on the you know what let's let's go let's keep it a little bit wide actually. Um so because like we're because everybody had a ton of predictions on 2026 and where 2026 was headed. um in January and at the end of and at the end of uh 2025 um kind of like we're now a few months in kind of like what is 2026 the year of you think in ecom like what what what are the things that maybe people got wrong or that you don't think will happen which you will happen curious now

[1:08:50] that we're a few months in? Yeah, we're literally end of Q end of Q1. First off, the fact that we're already like in March kind of blows my mind. Like everyone's like shop talk. I'm like dude shop I know shop talk is in the end of March. Yeah. Um, I think unfortunately I think this year is going to be a little bit harder than last year. The performance I'm seeing across the board from an acquisition from like

[1:09:14] a meta standpoint. Let's start there. From from brand scaling or spending, I think they're not hitting what they expected that they were going to hit. U based on my anidotal performance I get to see on the agencies and the brands that I'm currently like in bed with. Everybody that's winning has a subscriptionbacked some sort of repeat buying product. I don't see a bunch of people spending a lot of extra money on travel. There's a lot of worry in the world at this current moment. So my my brain goes to I think this year is going to be flat to slightly down. Um I don't think it's a problem as much as people

[1:09:50] losing because they're gonna have to adjust their like team how much they're spending on overhead and opex. So I think this is a year of and this is what I predicted at the beginning of the year. I had a couple posts around this but I think this year is status quo or slightly down but I don't take that in a negative line. I think that is like something that has to happen for what will happen next which is I do think there'll be more AI tools that are friendlier to use. And a lot of the brands like that you're having conversations with dude they're not asking you like deep AI

[1:10:20] questions or they're they themselves aren't talking about the tools of which they're using. I think they're all just kind of just managing and running their business. they these guys aren't thinking. Some of them are, but not a lot of them are going to be forward thinking on how many AI tools they can implement into their business right now because they're not super massive

[1:10:36] sophisticated operators yet. So, I I think it's still a little bit too far away um from the AI front and I think this will be an okay year. But theme-wise, this is the this is definitely the year of can you create systems and habits for people to follow and your product actually deliver on what those systems and habits should be done from a

[1:10:57] consumption standpoint. Uh I think CPG food and bev has a crazy renaissance because it's the one thing that AI can't really [ __ ] with. Yeah. Full consumable. Yeah. And I also think that this will be the back of the year short the back half of this year and the beginning of 2027 tele medicine peptide better for you feeling good like when when the world doesn't necessarily have to quote unquote work anymore because their AI bots are going to be doing it. The biggest thing that I think they're going to need to do is they're going to need to look good. They're going to need to

[1:11:26] smell good. They're going to need to talk good. They're going to need to have this like in-person relationships much better or else they're going to be stuck and and actually pretty lonely. So, I I'm I believe uh food and bev pops hard and the things that actually like take effect and do something for you is even

[1:11:42] better. Hell yeah. There we go. Interesting. And on the on the in-person side with like AI and how it's how it's developing, do you see like sort of like brands switching like how they do their messaging? How how do you how do you see like AI affecting brands and how they interact with the customer? Because like you see all the crazy AI ads um and everything that everybody's doing. Um, do you see some sort of like different sort of like viewpoint or actions that brands start to take when communicating with their customers like doing more in-person events? Um, sort of like things like that that you see brands

[1:12:12] could potentially start doing. I hope so. If they can save money on OPEX, like we've got we've had to gone through this a couple times, but I feel like when we come out of whatever we're in right now, the money that we are spending in this different area will be spent on in-person and relationship and environment building for sure. Like I think I I'll use Cadence as an example for this. They they have massive investment in budget towards their running, right? They want to be at every uh uh coffee and chill. They want to be at every run club. They want to be at every uh event that they're doing. That

[1:12:42] has to be the way because you can only consume so many things online and I'm sure like there's content being created every single day. So like there's never ending there. But the the willingness of spending on an experience or an excitement thing, I know you and I and this talk about this all the time. like I would travel nine nine months out of the year if I possibly could. Um, and because I want those experiences. So, I think if brands can tie themselves to some sort of inerson or to some sort of experience, it's worth it. But, will they have the money this year? I don't think that's a

[1:13:11] this year thing. I think it's cut what we need to cut. Really focus on the opex, continue to like have actual money in the business, not just uh being spent on all like unnecessary things. And then maybe in 2026, 2027 that investment really hits of cool, we're you're going to see us, you're going to see us in in a town near you. Yeah. Do you see like have you ever seen brands um do you see much success with like Facebook groups for example? Cuz one thing that I'm curious about this year is just like communities like you hear about like a lot like in the info

[1:13:40] space and online space is like communities are the [ __ ] Um curious if that's going to make its way over to ecom because there's Facebook groups. Um just because like brand messaging is so like it's not it's not a community like emails it's the brand sending to the customer. Yep. It Instagram ads everything is brand to customer. There's no community part of it besides like Instagram comments. Like there's there's really nothing. I'm curious like have you thought about that at all? Um

[1:14:05] curious what you think there. Yeah. Everything we do is one to many. I think there's there's three brands specifically that have great community. Uh I think the Avi boys have built a massive community around supplements and and women's health. Uh Primal Queen has built a massive community around women's and and better for you. And then you look at guys like uh Dad Gang where they have a massive active community. Those three types of brands I would say although yes they are subscription based Gang correct not dad gang some but the the the other two are subscription based the most loyal a customer can be from the

[1:14:44] community standpoint is to be on subscription for the dad gang side that that's a very easy to manage community because it's a bunch of dudes who are just showing photos of their hats. Yeah. Whereas like on Primal Cream or Avi, it's women going through transformations and needing community and leaning into it. So the product lends itself to the type of chatter. Um I it's it's something that you can't like kind of do. Like it's some it's sort of if you were to ask me like should brands be on Tik Tok shop, you're

[1:15:13] like yeah, you probably should. But you have to really take that [ __ ] serious. It's sort of like should a brand sell on Amazon? Like yeah that you should but you need to have full programs. You need to know how this works. But you can't just be like I'm going to start a community because what are you what are you going to chatter about? I I think Breeze, we should have

[1:15:28] a massive Facebook community. Yeah. Because someone's taking our drink to some some event and they're posting these videos and being out there and and around and experience definitely brings chatter, but you can't you can't like halfass that. Mhm. Yeah. I'm always I'm always curious like how do how does a brand like Dad Gang build community? Like what is what creates that? Is it just like message and then like what what are the tactical things that people can do to build community? because I feel like you guys like have a good sense of community as well. Like what do you do? Is it like tell customers to post on social media

[1:16:00] and you always repost to them? Like what are the tactical pieces of it? I think there so our tactically why dagging works is because each one of those hats are very aesthetic and it's really cool to share. Um when you see a dagging hat in person like you kind of like look at each other and it's like you don't you're not doing like jeep signs and [ __ ] but you

[1:16:17] basically like yo you're a dad gang. You're a dad. I'm a dad. Um, for us on Breeze, like I think our can is extremely attractive and people want to take a photo of it. And so one of the things that we do is like see a can, spin a can, which is if you see a can in a in a on a shelf and the breeze logo is not forward, you spin it and you take a photo of it. So like that that we started that like Aaron and I was started messing around with that. And second is uh like can in a hand where like if cans and hands is the intention

[1:16:43] of what in-person experiences should be, we're always need to make sure that you're seeing a can in a hand. And so those photos of like I'm at an event, I'm taking photos around it. And we do share a lot of lifestyle. It's less of like us, the brand people talking about our consumers, more so of hey, I'm I'm I'm at an event or I'm having this experience and that's where we want to share it. Cuz like look at Red Bull. Red

[1:17:04] Bull doesn't show their can at all. At all. No. They're like we we we want to be the experience, but right now like we know that our can is so aesthetic and that's like our thing at the moment that we have to lean into it. But eventually I don't even want our can to be a part of it. I want the aesthetic of what the environment is to be like that's a

[1:17:20] breeze vibe. I dude the biggest thing that I think we do from community and we we haven't been able to execute it yet because resources the the rise of like DJs at coffee shops or DJs that are like live streaming at all times are just always on. We should be on every single live stream at least for the segment that has our can here or light up logo there or something right in the back. He's sipping on something and it's just like a natural placement while these guys are just spinning. Love

[1:17:48] that. Like that. That would be like the ideal perfect way for us to build vibe community through uh something that's completely on brand association of like an event association. It's just all through all through that. Yeah, totally. Like cadence with running. They're there. They're going to be in the cooler. They're going to be in that fridge. AG1 at like

[1:18:08] better for your health events. Yeah, health events. Ice bats like the plunge there. There's always a plunge somewhere. Hm. Yeah, I think that's the only way, man. Yeah. And then it just slowly builds over time. H interesting. Let's go through couple couple rapid rapid fire things to kind of end off. Um what are a couple of brands that you take inspiration from on

[1:18:28] a week- toeek basis? Um I would say I take inspiration from Take Ultra. I think those guys are doing crazy things around like nicotine addiction and caffeine in pouches. Um I've mentioned Cadence like six times. Those guys I I think they're doing it right. I love the aesthetics and the brand that they're running against. Um I this is not necessarily from a beauty standpoint, but they like stay in the

[1:18:51] lane like Ankor. They they know what they do. They know how they sell. They have various amounts of SKs. Um but they sell their smallest thing and they can get you all the way up to their biggest generator battery. So I think that's incredible. Um I'm recently been diving into the Rivian family, which I've always been a Tesla guy and from the wifey standpoint, she finally got the Rivian. I think that that vibe of like tech, outdoor, and aesthetic and even when their messages

[1:19:17] are coming through, it's pretty nice. Like it's it's a it's a vibe that we identify with, which is crazy because it's such a large purchase for in our life. Um I'm deep now in the Hierox game. I kind of mentioned that to you before. And it's funny because I was kind of in the CrossFit section, but now I'm looking at Hierrox and the way that those brands are positioned because Hierrox is a brand, it's a brand, whatever you want to say, it's it is a community. And that is crazy. Like my first experience was in Vegas. We're signing up for three

[1:19:43] more. Like it we're we're in it. Hell yeah. But I get there and I go, man, this is this like they they make this challenge a way where it drives community because you need people to pull you through it and you do it by yourself, but you're cheered around. And the the way that the course is lined up is that the person or the group that you're coming with, they can be with you at every section, but that group has to follow you as you're running around. So you have this the moment you walk in it's like holy [ __ ] It's like constant commotion. So

[1:20:10] like I I I like the chaos in which that's created because it lets you know that there's stuff happening. So I don't know that that like kind of a range of my brands that I'm interested right now. But that's it. Hell yeah. There you go. Awesome. Good stuff. And then how about give us like your favorite sort of like email that any brand could send to their list like right now to make money. Could be an email. It could be an offer. Something to like make quick cash. Something that

[1:20:31] you've seen work well. Oh. uh for the next hour we're funding we're refunding orders over X. So like any like we're going to choose 10 orders that have spent over $100. We're going to fully refund you. That's a that's a campaign that goes live today. Rips, right? It rips. It rips. It it's it never if you're like, I need it now. Oh my god. You can pull that. Anybody that bought this skew, anybody this product, anybody that spent this much money, like you can cut it however you want if you want to send it to different places. Yes, it's so good and it feels like it's you

[1:21:03] can reframe it and it doesn't feel like a sale. It's like, you know what, we're feeling nice today. We're out of the great out of the goodness of our hearts, we're going to be refunding x amount of people and then you make a [ __ ] ton of money off. Yes. Yes, dude. You ever seen the store credit email? Okay, but you Okay, you have to explain to me the store credit one because what we've ran into, cash back and store credit are very different experiences and sometimes

[1:21:25] those apps, those margins don't work. So, I would love to hear how you talk about it. It's just a discount code. just a discount code. You set it to a random number like $8.17 and you say, "Hey, you have $8.17 of store credit. Use this code at checkout and the credit will apply." So you it's a re it's a redirect. It's

[1:21:44] it's a reframe of like what it is. Yeah. Okay. We we we have our we usually call store credit and we look like people don't really question it but they just think like oh cool like but I do think you have to have some way someway a random co code generator or if it's just

[1:22:01] Mhm. you have 875 use code today. Yeah. Oh no it's a code that looks random but wxg47. It has to Okay. Thank you. That's like that's like the sauce. That's the real That's the real sauce in it. You can't just be like, uh, store credit 10 bucks. Welcome. Yeah. Like, oh, [ __ ] Like, that's not

[1:22:20] right. It has to be like, you're right. XY5 444 or something. Dude, it [ __ ] rips every single time. Those are good. The both of those hit. Both of those probably my favorite. Um, okay then. How about with this one? How do you treat offers differently for active subscribers on your email list? Uh, this is this is such a delicate balance. So we the only way that we segment this is if you've been on subscription for more than 3 months. So our our our arc is like pretty consistent at even at four years like our stuff is pretty consistent no matter how many offers we come in. After 4

[1:22:52] months like you're you're a stick rate with us. You're going to make it to six. Like it's pretty pretty dialed in. So month one and two you're going to get more emails from us to buy more product. We're still we still believe you if you're like rebuild one which is technically month two before you get rebuild for the first time you're going to get some sort of offer to them because I think you should have more. I think you've probably already gone through eight. That's our

[1:23:16] assumption. And the drop off is not terrible if we over email them. But as soon as you get past your third rebuild with us, we're not really talking to you. You're going to get mocktails. You're going to get waste to make the drink. But you're you're not getting any offers. You're not getting any offers, dude. If unless I'm What about like Black Friday? That's let me let me unless I'm in such a situation where like I know I need to get cash and even then I will do everything I can to not justify hitting this [ __ ] gold

[1:23:42] mine of customers. I'll do my best to not hit them. If if I have to, I will. But it's more of like it's going to be a quick action. It's going to be an order now. It's going to be a quick link into the portal. It's not going to be user code to come back

[1:23:53] to the site. Beautiful. Last one. What are you most excited about for this year? Oh, dude. I I we kind of briefly talked about I'm very excited to find out sooner or later these omniscent Clavio uh Bronto whatever like they're going to get some AI better for you auto campaigns that's going to be super segmented to the customer's journey. I'm excited for that. I hope that's this year. I hope I hope somehow someway somebody develops the ability to be like if this like a bunch of if then statements that if this customer falls into this bucket send all these types of things rather than us having to like

[1:24:32] manually build that ourselves. That's coming this year. I don't think it was come this year, but I would love it to get close to feel optimistic for it coming next year. [ __ ] yeah. Beautiful. All right. Where can people find you? Thank you. Uh, you can find me on I am Nick Shakleford on uh Instagram or on Twitter but or on X but it's uh you can find me as long as you as you're looking

[1:24:52] you you you won't miss it. If you look you'll find them. Awesome. Well, thank you so much Nick. It has been a pleasure. Appreciate you.

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